Are we on the way of Ismaili Aga Khan way!

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
Akhtiar Wahid
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Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:22 am

Are we on the way of Ismaili Aga Khan way!

#1

Unread post by Akhtiar Wahid » Fri Jul 11, 2014 11:38 pm

I am finding recently a lot of similarities between us dawoodi bohras and ismailis and recently this audio clip of Muffadal Saifuddin being represented as Zamin na Khuda (God of earth) Nauzobillah assured me that this way of islam is going astray.
I Insist on operating members Progressive dawoodi bohra to take clear action on this alert of SHIRK which is being spread similarly as Ismailist.
We are portraying Muffadal Saiffudin as Noor-e-Khuda or Ilahulard similarly as Ismailist,
Collection of wajebat, Khums etc and etc are all similar to Ismailist.

Akhtiar Wahid
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Re: Are we on the way of Ismaili Aga Khan way!

#2

Unread post by Akhtiar Wahid » Fri Jul 11, 2014 11:46 pm

There is Chanta which sprinkling of holy water on the follower to rid him of Sins in Ismailis
and in Dawoodi bohras there is Misaaq (oath) for the followers to rid him of Sins.

AliHaq
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 3:33 am

Re: Are we on the way of Ismaili Aga Khan way!

#3

Unread post by AliHaq » Fri Jul 11, 2014 11:50 pm

very true brother, please check last 200 years of history with bohras and ismailis and you will see so many similarities, aghkhan also started hoarding wealth by submerging all trusts and properties on his name, and right now he is sole owner of every thing, like this there are many similarities, I wont be surprise if in next few years bohras will also deny shariyat.

AliHaq
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Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 3:33 am

Re: Are we on the way of Ismaili Aga Khan way!

#4

Unread post by AliHaq » Fri Jul 11, 2014 11:52 pm

some times I feel bohra dai is actually taking advice and orders from agha khan.

DisillusionedDB
Posts: 380
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Re: Are we on the way of Ismaili Aga Khan way!

#5

Unread post by DisillusionedDB » Sat Jul 12, 2014 12:02 am

In some other thread somebody did point out that the example of Aga Khan was being given in comparison to the Dai. If I am not wrong, I think it was the lady who said that she has studied in Jamea.

Akhtiar Wahid
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Re: Are we on the way of Ismaili Aga Khan way!

#6

Unread post by Akhtiar Wahid » Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:19 am

Even they do not know tafseer of quran like us, as we are told that only Ayaash Dai knows the real meaning and true meaning and we are suppose to get to know about it only through bayans and sabaks.
As we can see are fardh namaazes are becoming shorter in time span, kiraat is read as if the Imam is in some kind of hurry, slowly and gradually are fardh namaaz will be replaced by tawasool namaaz and they will make us believe that if you read tawasool your fardh is already accepted
Tawasool for tulul umar Muffadal saifuddin than gradually for his soon to be appointed mazoon and mukasir, then all the nikama shezaadas!
and then for shezaadis too!

JavedhJuma
Posts: 403
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Re: Are we on the way of Ismaili Aga Khan way!

#7

Unread post by JavedhJuma » Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:53 pm

Akhtiar Wahid wrote:I am finding recently a lot of similarities between us dawoodi bohras and ismailis and recently this audio clip of Muffadal Saifuddin being represented as Zamin na Khuda (God of earth) Nauzobillah assured me that this way of islam is going astray.
I Insist on operating members Progressive dawoodi bohra to take clear action on this alert of SHIRK which is being spread similarly as Ismailist.
We are portraying Muffadal Saiffudin as Noor-e-Khuda or Ilahulard similarly as Ismailist,
Collection of wajebat, Khums etc and etc are all similar to Ismailist.
Brother Akhtiar Wahid, There is a big difference between Ilahu-al-Ard and Noor-e-Khuda. Ismailis do not believe their Imam to be Ilahu-al-Ard, which translates into God on Earth.
Since Prophet SAW to the last of the Imams on earth, all Shias believe Imam is the Mazhar of Noor of Allah, just as all the Prophets were.

Please, kindly do not drag Ismailis into your present siutation. We sympathise with both the sides and hope Allah SWT helps you guys and resolves your issue. We respect your beliefs and please , I ask you to do the same. You do not need more fights with your other Shia brothers.

ghulam muhammed
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Re: Are we on the way of Ismaili Aga Khan way!

#8

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:44 pm

Bro Akhtar Wahid,

Although I do not subscribe to the Aga Khani school of thought but Iam sure that he is a much better community leader then our Dais. I would not concur with their belief system but at the same time I would appreciate their leader's concern for his followers, I know this personally as I have seen how his followers are helped even in alien countries like Canada, Africa, Europe etc. where at one time their presence was minimal. Regarding extorting money, it would be difficult to believe that Aga Khan indulges in such practice the way our Dais are doing. I say this not because of any love for their religion or their leader but on interaction with some Aga Khanis friends. The one BIG reason which convinced me of his astute leadership was that even while interacting with ultra modern Khojas I never even once heard anyone criticising their leader the way we see in our community. You will agree with me that whenever there is a discussion among a group of Bohra friends regarding the high handedness of Dai, 9 out of 10 Bohras will agree that there is something terrible wrong in the community whereas I didn't find such kind of an attitude in Khojas. Kindly understand that what Iam saying is based on my personal experience and not hearsay.

You may find faults in their way of interpreting Islam, some of which may be true but what Iam saying is purely on the leadership qualities of which the followers have no complain.

JavedhJuma
Posts: 403
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Re: Are we on the way of Ismaili Aga Khan way!

#9

Unread post by JavedhJuma » Sat Jul 12, 2014 4:06 pm

Akhtiar Wahid wrote:There is Chanta which sprinkling of holy water on the follower to rid him of Sins in Ismailis
and in Dawoodi bohras there is Misaaq (oath) for the followers to rid him of Sins.
My dear brother Akhtiar, You have no knowledge of Ismaili faith neither of Shia Islam.

Chanta was introduced by Prophet SAW. We have discussed it with our Wahabi brothers a lot, i.e. sprinkling of water on Panjatan-Pak.. To them Ahle Bayt is something different from our Shia interpretation. The Prophet brought Panajatan Pak under a cloak and sprinkled water on Ahle-Bayte to purify them. We are Imam's children and we obey him and hence he gives us chanta to purify us although we are not as sinless as the Panjatan Pak. Not all our sins are forgiven, especially those conducted out of fitnahs, libel and slander, murder, etc. , which are gunha Kabira. Only small sins or The way the bohora call them is "nana gunha" (are forgiven), but Imam intervenes on behalf of his murids the way Prophet SAW was commanded. I have already dealt with it under Islam "Shias and Sunnis" and .....grave worship. I do not want to repeat myself, but if you insist, I will.


Please explain to me how Misaq forgives your sins in Bohora tradition. This is the first time I hear of sins forgiven by Misaq.

We do give Bayah to the Imam of the time, once in our life time in his presence. Rest of the days we do renew our Misaq by reciting Sura Anfal: Ayah27 and Sura Maeda, Ayat 70.

JavedhJuma
Posts: 403
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Re: Are we on the way of Ismaili Aga Khan way!

#10

Unread post by JavedhJuma » Sat Jul 12, 2014 5:25 pm

AliHaq wrote:very true brother, please check last 200 years of history with bohras and ismailis and you will see so many similarities, aghkhan also started hoarding wealth by submerging all trusts and properties on his name, and right now he is sole owner of every thing, like this there are many similarities, I wont be surprise if in next few years bohras will also deny shariyat.
Now where did you read this? Aga Khan earns his own upkeep. He does not hoard wealth by "submerging all trusts and properties on his name". All our Jamat Khanas are in joint name with our Imam and Ismailis. Any responsible father would do so. It is also safer from legal point of view.

Schools and Hospitals are in joint name with himself and the countries where he is building them. Another safe legal point. Consult a lawyer to find out how these things work.

Imam received monetary and Time and Knowledge Nazarana during his Golden Jubilee celebration from his mureeds. From that he is building an Ismaili Jamat khana and Islamic Art Museum costing about 300 million dollars in Toronto. At the foundation ceremony, he openly declared that this monetary gift was from his mureeds, in the presence of the Prime Minister of Canada and others, when the Canadian Prime Minister also conferred Canadian Citizenship on him.

Now ask Admin to show you what happened to late Sayedna in 1993 when he tried to put bohora properties in his name. Ther was a big unpleasant debate in the parilament. You can view that on this very site.

My Imam is also building an Ismaili Jamat Khana in Paris with his own money.

Time and Knowledge Nazarana: Many people committed TKN because Imam prefers that to monetary nazarana. So a lot of people donated both. With TKN people go to dangerous countries and help disadvantaged people there. You saw what happened to two Ismaili ladies, who went to Afghanistan to help the people, and were gunned down by the talibans on 21st March during Navroz celebration.

For more on Ismaili Imam's work, please go to akdn.org and also read the following from a Sunni blogger:


http://worldmuslimcongress.blogspot.com ... of-57.html

As regards abandoning the Sharia: What sharia are ou talking about? Following the tenets of Islam: We follow the tenets of Islam. We do not care if people agree or not agree with our interpretations. To each his own and Qur'an is very specific about this.



JavedhJuma
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Re: Are we on the way of Ismaili Aga Khan way!

#11

Unread post by JavedhJuma » Sat Jul 12, 2014 5:36 pm

Akhtiar Wahid wrote:Even they do not know tafseer of quran like us, as we are told that only Ayaash Dai knows the real meaning and true meaning and we are suppose to get to know about it only through bayans and sabaks.
As we can see are fardh namaazes are becoming shorter in time span, kiraat is read as if the Imam is in some kind of hurry, slowly and gradually are fardh namaaz will be replaced by tawasool namaaz and they will make us believe that if you read tawasool your fardh is already accepted
Tawasool for tulul umar Muffadal saifuddin than gradually for his soon to be appointed mazoon and mukasir, then all the nikama shezaadas!
and then for shezaadis too!

Akhatiarbhai: You are so wrong about tafseer of Qur'an. We are encouraged by our Imam to read translations of the qur'an by various interpreters and apply them in our daily lives using our Aql. In fact he has set up another Institute called Institute of Islamic Studies where people of different schools of thoughts are meeting to produce a unanimous interpretation of the Qur'an.

Before you bark at somebody please at least have the courtesy of looking at the person from independent view. Study the person independently. Do not rely on hearsay. That is the work of a Jahil.

JavedhJuma
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Re: Are we on the way of Ismaili Aga Khan way!

#12

Unread post by JavedhJuma » Sat Jul 12, 2014 5:56 pm

ghulam muhammed wrote:Bro Akhtar Wahid,

Although I do not subscribe to the Aga Khani school of thought I have repeatedly seen this in almost every post of yours. Can you explain? Send me a PM if you do not want to do so in Public Forum. It irks me to read this in every one of your posts. Let us discuss. May be what you have heard from your Ismaili friends is their interpretation and not my Imam's interpretation.

but Iam sure that he is a much better community leader then our Dais. I would not concur with their belief system Here you go again. Please explain.but at the same time I would appreciate their leader's concern for his followers, I know this personally as I have seen how his followers are helped even in alien countries like Canada, Africa, Europe etc. where at one time their presence was minimal. Regarding extorting money, it would be difficult to believe that Aga Khan indulges in such practice the way our Dais are doing. I say this not because of any love for their religion or their leader Ghulambhai, you keep injecting this kind of knife after every two or three sentences. Please send me a PPM and let me know what you are hiccuping about.but on interaction with some Aga Khanis friends. The one BIG reason which convinced me of his astute leadership was that even while interacting with ultra modern Khojas I never even once heard anyone criticising their leader the way we see in our community. You will agree with me that whenever there is a discussion among a group of Bohra friends regarding the high handedness of Dai, 9 out of 10 Bohras will agree that there is something terrible wrong in the community whereas I didn't find such kind of an attitude in Khojas. Kindly understand that what Iam saying is based on my personal experience and not hearsay.

You may find faults in their way of interpreting Islam, some of which may be true really? Can you clarify privately or openly. So that we can set the record straight.but what Iam saying is purely on the leadership qualities of which the followers have no complain. I can assure brother GM 100% of TRUE Ismailis have no complain against his leadership both in worldly and spiritual matters. If you have judged a candy by the cover and colour you will not know the taste until you put it in your own mouth, no matter what people tell you, how it tastes. Some might say it tastes sour, others might say it is bitter, and yet others might say it is awful. So let us eamine amicably.

JavedhJuma
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Re: Are we on the way of Ismaili Aga Khan way!

#13

Unread post by JavedhJuma » Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:54 pm

Akhtiar Wahid wrote:,
Collection of wajebat, Khums etc and etc are all similar to Ismailist.
Akhtiar Bhai:

Sorry I forgot to address the above.

Ismailis do not have to pay wajebat. I do not understand what wajebat is. Khums is not compulsory, however, some people do submit Khums. We pay Ushr=10 % + 2.5% as mandated by Prophet SAW.

And if you go to http://www.akdn.org you can see for yourself where our Zakat money is deployed.

However , It is left to an individual's conscience. You pay because it is mandated but if you do not, it is between you and Allah SWT. Nobdoy, Nobody can demand that from you. Whatever you give is taken but not counted. If you do not pay, nobody can chase you because nobody is supposed to know. Like Imam Ali AS, said, "when you give with your right hand, your left hand should not know".

So kindly refrain from blaming Ismailis for your own problems. Thank you.

Akhtiar Wahid
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Re: Are we on the way of Ismaili Aga Khan way!

#14

Unread post by Akhtiar Wahid » Sat Jul 12, 2014 10:14 pm

Dear JavedJhuma Bhai,

I do not understand what are you trying to defend, i know very much about the operations of Ismaili jamats as i have a friend who belongs to this community, if your down to comparision i will explain you at the moment we are having successor problems ONLY and it will be sorted out soon by the people in coming time.
Comparisions:-
We have MASJIDS, well as you have JAMAAT KHAANAS (NO MASJIDS)
We pray fard, sunnat, nafelat, tawasul, tatawo and various namaazes ( ACCORDING TO AHLE SUNNAH), you people read some mashed up ayyats and pretend as if you are praying.
we pray in a manner how Rasool Allah (SWT) and Moulana Ali (AS) use to pray.
We go for Hajj and Umrah, well as you are so drowned in Shirk that you consider looking at your full shaven Imam and believe that you have performed Hajj.
IN SHORT WE ARE ON SUNNAH AND YOU ARE NOT, YOUR IMAM IS JUST PLAYING AROUND WITH HIS FOLLOWERS.
So kindly refrain from commenting on bohras for your own problems. Thank you.
P.S. Check this image and judge for yourself JAVEDJHUMA CHUMA BHAI
Image

JavedhJuma
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Re: Are we on the way of Ismaili Aga Khan way!

#15

Unread post by JavedhJuma » Sun Jul 13, 2014 1:01 am

[quote="Akhtiar Wahid"]Dear JavedJhuma Bhai,

I do not understand what are you trying to defend, i know very much about the operations of Ismaili jamats as i have a friend who belongs to this community, First of all, I do not believe you have an Ismaili friend who would tell you we pay wajebat; our properties are in trust with the Imam; Your friend is Maherally where you all go to dig up dirt and make your hands dirty. Please read Sura 104 and straighten your behaviour before Allah SWT gets hold of you.I am not defending anything just setting the record straight. We do not pay wajebats; We do not call our Imam God on Earth; I am not comparing with you. I have respect for your religion and expect the same from you without you distorting facts about my faith because you are upset with things the way they are in your faith. Have patience and pray to God to help you guys instead of fighting with other communities and labelling them worse than your own.. Our Jamat Khanas are not our Imam's sole properties as you have claimed. It is the opposite with you!. Ours are shared with us. if your down to comparision i will explain you at the moment we are having successor problems ONLY and it will be sorted out soon by the people in coming time. I am not down to comparison. Please re-read your own posts where you guys have have created lies about us. Even GM bhai retorted. So I am not the only one. I am aware you have successor problem because I do have two bohora friends whose households are split. They are wonderful people and this year in Ramadan families are not together.
Comparisions:-
We have MASJIDS, well as you have JAMAAT KHAANAS (NO MASJIDS) See who is comparing? So be prepared to get a response from me. I am not comparing so don't blame me ok?Don't you have Jamat Khanas and Markazes too! What is the big deal with Masjids. And what is Devri???? prayer houses? Sufis have Khaneka, Ansawiya, Rabat? They do not have masjids. Why do you have problems with us only. Do we have a problem with you? Why do you have to drag us in to satisfy your insecurity?
We pray fard, sunnat, nafelat, tawasul, tatawo and various namaazes ( ACCORDING TO AHLE SUNNAH), you people read some mashed up ayyats and pretend as if you are praying. Pray all you want. The Sunnis and other Shias do not agree with you that you follow the Sunnah. Matam after each prayer is Sunnah?. Please leave us alone. We do not abuse you. In fact I have been defending you all the time. Mashed up ayats: So now Quraranic ayats are mashed up? Sura Al-Hamd. Suratun Nisa, Sura Maeda; Sura fatah, Sura Anfal; Suratul Ikhlas are mashed up suras? Tauba Nauzobillah.
we pray in a manner how Rasool Allah (SWT) and Moulana Ali (AS) used to pray. That is not what your antagonists on this forum say They say you do Sajda to the Dais; that seeing the face of the Dai is the sawab of Hajj and he is the Hakiki Kaba. Is that the way Prophet SAW and Hazarat Ali prayed? And did they have a human being as hakiki kaba.
We go for Hajj and Umrah

,you are so drowned in Shirk that you consider looking at your full shaven Imam and believe that you have performed Hajj. That is pure crap and you know very well. We do go for Hajj and Umrah too and we never claim that seeing the face of our Imam is our Hajj, it is your folks who say that seeing the face of Dai is Hajj and He is the Hakiki Kaba.. And remember: Deen mei dadhi hai; dadhi mei deen nahi hai!
IN SHORT WE ARE ON SUNNAH AND YOU ARE NOT, YOUR IMAM IS JUST PLAYING AROUND WITH HIS FOLLOWERS. What Sunnah? Was matam after every prayer sunnah of the Prophet? Did any Muslim bow down to Rasool SAW? Did Mowla Ali or the Asahabas bow down to Rasool SAW. My Imam takes care of us in deeni and duniyawi bato. Did you even read the link I posted? A Sunni Muslim praising our Imam? Has any Sunni praised your Dais? I understand from this forum that they chased you guys when the Dai uttered lanats on the Asahabas.

I sincerely apologise to my bohora bretherns. I did not want to go there but this man has made me go there. I personally do not care what you do or how you pray. To each his own but I wanted to set this man straight.

So kindly refrain from commenting on bohras for your own problems. Thank you. We do not have problems Akhtiar bhai. You are the ones in problem. You yourself said that. I pray for you.And as for the photo you are showing below is from the site of Maherally who has confessed in Court that he has lied. This was one of the pictures in his book which he had to withdraw and apologise to my Imam. So go ahead, circulate all you want. Go to his site and dig up more dirt. Only your hands are getting dirty. Be careful some fanatic Ismaili will take you to court!


garibmumin
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Re: Are we on the way of Ismaili Aga Khan way!

#16

Unread post by garibmumin » Sun Jul 13, 2014 1:35 am

No there is no comparison to Aga khanis, they dont even do wuzu. They are to us like Parsi bawas nothing more

JavedhJuma
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Re: Are we on the way of Ismaili Aga Khan way!

#17

Unread post by JavedhJuma » Sun Jul 13, 2014 2:34 am

garibmumin wrote:No there is no comparison to Aga khanis, they dont even do wuzu. They are to us like Parsi bawas nothing more
To me you personally are a jahil moron. I think Parsees are good people. You think you are holier than Thou. You are sick and pathetic.

Now go to Islam site where I posted a response to you. And try to respond on one site, so I can get back to you.

JavedhJuma
Posts: 403
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:47 pm

Re: Are we on the way of Ismaili Aga Khan way!

#18

Unread post by JavedhJuma » Sun Jul 13, 2014 4:32 pm

I posted my response on Hadith from Ahle Bayt...in Islam section.. You and others like minded can go and read it there.

In the meantime, I see you jumping from thread to thread pretending to be a bohora, "when you said my mola would not allow us to eat from you...etc" and in another thread you claim to Muslim under the leadership of Most Merciful...etc. In effect you are Gulshan Allidina, the w....of Mombasa or a bohora52 converted to Mehrullah's sect from Dawoodi Bohora. You are fooling other people on this forum that you are a Muslim: So who are you? Follower of Mola or Mehrullah or wahabi? Never mind, I am not interested now that I know you are the w.... of Mombsa. Would you like me to publish your history on this forum too?

bohrikaka
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Re: Are we on the way of Ismaili Aga Khan way!

#19

Unread post by bohrikaka » Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:20 am

I think we bohras should first and foremost do introspection within our own community , rather than point fingers at Ismaili Khojas & Itna Ashari's. We all know what has been happening and how the aqeeda has been made into cult into mere Dai worshipping. I have personally visited AKDN Hyd and at least Aga Khan seems genuinely concerned for entire Muslim Ummah and even non muslims . Education is the most important tool for upliftment of the downtrodden, and what I saw in the campus makes it evident that they are leaving no stone unturned in accomplishing it. What have the recent Dai's done apart from hoarding wealth and doing self glorification ?

bohrikaka
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Re: Are we on the way of Ismaili Aga Khan way!

#20

Unread post by bohrikaka » Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:23 am

We have masjids , and what we do in it ? 99% dai na gun gaan ?

ghulam muhammed
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Re: Are we on the way of Ismaili Aga Khan way!

#21

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:12 pm

Bro javedhjuma,

I don't understand how my post irked you as I haven't spoken a word against your leader, in fact I have praised him for his efforts and his follower's love for him. I had to make it clear that I don't follow your school of thoughts because as otherwise I would be labelled an Aga Khani just like how the retards on this forum label any tom dick and harry a wahabi when they fail to counter them logically and rationally. I just made a frank admission with regard to my belief and that's all.

WiththenameofAllah
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Re: Are we on the way of Ismaili Aga Khan way!

#22

Unread post by WiththenameofAllah » Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:12 am

Akhtiar Wahid wrote:There is Chanta which sprinkling of holy water on the follower to rid him of Sins in Ismailis
and in Dawoodi bohras there is Misaaq (oath) for the followers to rid him of Sins.
Misaq gives you more sins unfortunately ! the qasams are too profound to be fulfilled. It has a qasam for a lady like that she should not talk to na mehrams and if she breaks the qasam she has to perform 30 hajjs :D I question how many of us have fulfilled this qasam.

Ismailis do a lot for the community in Pakistan. They have the best hospital and best college. You cannot compare the quality provided at these institutions to any other institution and there is a lot of fee reduction for the ismailis . What does an ordinary bohra gets in our community ? Nothing but insults ...
Our Dai has given 3rd class Saifee hospital and badri school to the community ! Shame on him.

zinger
Posts: 2051
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: Are we on the way of Ismaili Aga Khan way!

#23

Unread post by zinger » Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:32 am

ghulam muhammed wrote:Bro javedhjuma,

I don't understand how my post irked you as I haven't spoken a word against your leader, in fact I have praised him for his efforts and his follower's love for him. I had to make it clear that I don't follow your school of thoughts because as otherwise I would be labelled an Aga Khani just like how the retards on this forum label any tom dick and harry a wahabi when they fail to counter them logically and rationally. I just made a frank admission with regard to my belief and that's all.
javed bhai, i second gm bhai's post. no where has he said a word against Prince Aga Khan or the Ismaili community. he is infact far, far, FAR more polite in admitting that he does not see eye to eye with your belief systems, but thats ok, he doesnt see eye to eye with ours either. he is merely voicing his opinion. he
is not thrusting it down throats or asking for justification the way others do over here

i really think you have misjudged his post.

i just wish his posts towards us were just half as polite atleast :wink:

zinger
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Re: Are we on the way of Ismaili Aga Khan way!

#24

Unread post by zinger » Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:36 am

javed bhai, in the interest of the month of Ramzan and your Roza, i would request you to keep your calm.

you are perhaps one of the very very few polite participants here and i can see how politely you have been putting your POV across, but clearly, there are some elements here that are just bent on stirring up trouble and getting you to make you loose your cool, which is nothing but the work of shaitaan.

my sincere request to you is to keep your cool and not get down to their level. you are far better than them

i can see how people are needlessly fingering you and i think its quite pathetic. just keep calm. you are right, its just frustration.

if a Dawoodi Bohra needles you, i can put it down to frustration. but if a non DB needles you, then it is purely for mischief

zinger
Posts: 2051
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: Are we on the way of Ismaili Aga Khan way!

#25

Unread post by zinger » Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:41 am

ghulam muhammed wrote:Bro javedhjuma,

I don't understand how my post irked you as I haven't spoken a word against your leader, in fact I have praised him for his efforts and his follower's love for him. I had to make it clear that I don't follow your school of thoughts because as otherwise I would be labelled an Aga Khani just like how the retards on this forum label any tom dick and harry a wahabi when they fail to counter them logically and rationally. I just made a frank admission with regard to my belief and that's all.

GM bhai, it is not just any "retard" on this forum who label any tom dick and harry a wahabi when they fail to counter them logically and rationally. many an intelligent reformist has done it too. Porus for one. Many others too

When certain members abuse Alhe Bait and call for their ziarat to be stopped and their wasila to be not taken, their graves not be allowed to visit but freely allow graves of the other companions to be open to all, not understanding that this is not just a Shia belief but Sunni as well, then they are labelled as wahabi

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Are we on the way of Ismaili Aga Khan way!

#26

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Tue Jul 15, 2014 4:08 am

zinger wrote:When certain members abuse Alhe Bait and call for their ziarat to be stopped and their wasila to be not taken, their graves not be allowed to visit but freely allow graves of the other companions to be open to all, not understanding that this is not just a Shia belief but Sunni as well, then they are labelled as wahabi
The ones with these views could definitely be called wahabis because these are their real beliefs, hence its calling a spade a spade which is not wrong. There are other sects too which don't concur with these beliefs. However, you will agree that there are many instances when some members, especially the hardcore abdes do label anyone a wahabi just because they cannot defend their master's and this is the only way to cop out, divert the discussion and gain some brownie points of members who are not only anti-kothar but anti-wahabi too !

garibmumin
Posts: 52
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2014 4:53 am

Re: Are we on the way of Ismaili Aga Khan way!

#27

Unread post by garibmumin » Tue Jul 15, 2014 4:14 am

actually there is no such thing as "wahhabi" as these ideas against grave worshipping existed even before Ibn Tayimmiyah hence wahhabi is a wrong label. From what I read it were the fatimid caliphs who introduced dargah culture which was later copied by sunnis. Even the milad nabee is a fatimid tradition which was copied by sunnis.

zinger
Posts: 2051
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: Are we on the way of Ismaili Aga Khan way!

#28

Unread post by zinger » Tue Jul 15, 2014 4:27 am

ghulam muhammed wrote:
zinger wrote:When certain members abuse Alhe Bait and call for their ziarat to be stopped and their wasila to be not taken, their graves not be allowed to visit but freely allow graves of the other companions to be open to all, not understanding that this is not just a Shia belief but Sunni as well, then they are labelled as wahabi
The ones with these views could definitely be called wahabis because these are their real beliefs, hence its calling a spade a spade which is not wrong. There are other sects too which don't concur with these beliefs. However, you will agree that there are many instances when some members, especially the hardcore abdes do label anyone a wahabi just because they cannot defend their master's and this is the only way to cop out, divert the discussion and gain some brownie points of members who are not only anti-kothar but anti-wahabi too !

yes, i will agree that there have been instances when the wahabi label is used loosely for wrong reasons (you have been called a wahabi too, quite often, which i know you are not) but it is certainly not to win brownie points. its often a way of lashing out to someone who doesnt agree with ones beliefs.

if one can call us munafiqs and mushirks then one can call them wahabi in return

JavedhJuma
Posts: 403
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:47 pm

Re: Are we on the way of Ismaili Aga Khan way!

#29

Unread post by JavedhJuma » Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:19 pm

ghulam muhammed wrote:Bro javedhjuma,

I don't understand how my post irked you as I haven't spoken a word against your leader, in fact I have praised him for his efforts and his follower's love for him. I had to make it clear that I don't follow your school of thoughts because as otherwise I would be labelled an Aga Khani just like how the retards on this forum label any tom dick and harry a wahabi when they fail to counter them logically and rationally. I just made a frank admission with regard to my belief and that's all.
Yes you praise him, good, but in every post you repeat that you do not follow our school of thought. We don't care what you follow and I don't care to know, but do you have to repeat that in every post? Believe me no tom, Dick and Harry will call you an AgaKhani, and if you are so afraid o them why do you have to praise my Imam. Please don't. Just look at the post below how many times you repeat in different ways that you do not subscribe to our school of thought.


Although I do not subscribe to the Aga Khani school of thought.. I have repeatedly seen this in almost every post of yours. Can you explain? Send me a PM if you do not want to do so in Public Forum. It irks me to read this in every one of your posts. Let us discuss. May be what you have heard from your Ismaili friends is their interpretation and not my Imam's interpretation.but I am sure that he is a much better community leader then our Dais. I would not concur with their belief system Here you go again. Please explain.

Now let me tell you brother GM, I do not care what you believe and who you believe and what your rites and rituals.

As an Ismaili, I am supposed to respect everyone's beliefs but I do not go repeating myself , out of fear of others, that I do not beklieve in so and so 's beliefs. Why do I care; why do you have to repeat the same each time you post. Don't you think by now they know you do not contribute to our faith. And why are you afraid of Jahils? Truth hurts.

salim
Posts: 406
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 4:01 am

Re: Are we on the way of Ismaili Aga Khan way!

#30

Unread post by salim » Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:59 am

Dear Akhtiar Wahid.

The picture with quote you posted is fake. One can replace the picture of grand father of aga khan with his great great grand father (Prophet Muhammad) than are you going to call it a hadit and start following it. What I am trying to say is just adding a picture to a few words does not make that words belonging to that person.

I do understand that Ismailis of indian sub-continent moved towards Hinduism and more so towards Sufism in past. This mainly happened between those few centuries between of Ghazni and Aurangazeb. In this period hundreds of thousand of ismailis were killed by these sunni rulers. So, all those left ismailis became very united and powerful. Many children lost their mothers and father and many parents lost their kids. All those left alive ismailis had one thing in common that they have seen their family members killed and they all hated anything that has to do with those murderers and rapists. So a movement started where they started acting more like those who helped then save their lives. Their believe became - True religion was anything but the religion of these murderers and rapists. In this believe a lot of traditions were changed. With Imam living 6 months riding distance away from India, ismailis of india started getting their guidance from numerous sufis, dais, and pirs. One positive effect of all those murders and rapes where we Ismailis today became a lot more united then we were in past. With strong influence of Wahabism on Sunni religion at that time in India, Ismailis did a mistake of assuming most sunnis as wahabies who killed their family members, only because their family member preferred dying then following the religion of terrorism and violence.

But after Aurangazeb, as ismailis started feeling safe, they started changing their rituals back. 800 years of prosecution effect can't be changed with in few years.

All that said, we believe that Aga Khan is blessing of Allah to the mankind. So we do have strong biased towards him.