Wajebaats 2014

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
DisillusionedDB
Posts: 380
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 7:20 am

Re: Wajebaats 2014

#31

Unread post by DisillusionedDB » Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:10 am

zohair1977 wrote:
DisillusionedDB wrote:Received another humourous one but the underlying facts cannot be refuted.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8gt4u74rtn9ft ... WA0001.m4a
Ohh no no no no, they are much better than this. I have very strong feeling that this is recorded by some mimicry artist. Real one are quite good at delivering bayaan.

This audio sounds like someone trying to having fun while speaking/reading all the RAKAM list, like he is reading some poem... And why to cry while saying "Ramazaan aaviga chhe" he should jumping with joy and poor Abdes should cry while he jumps on his takhat by joy and say "Ramazaan Aavi Gaya Chee"
@Zohair1977 : I know that this is a fabricated audio clip .. as you put it "by some mimicry artist". That's why I mentioned it as humourous. But whatever he said was entirely true .. give, give, give and then more give :mrgreen:

fustrate_Bohra
Posts: 678
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:46 am

Re: Wajebaats 2014

#32

Unread post by fustrate_Bohra » Fri Jul 18, 2014 6:12 am

DisillusionedDB wrote:Received another humourous one but the underlying facts cannot be refuted.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8gt4u74rtn9ft ... WA0001.m4a
Just heard, though the audio is humerous but it is 100% fact. Janab do say such things.

shabbir4u
Posts: 171
Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:46 pm

Re: Wajebaats 2014

#33

Unread post by shabbir4u » Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:00 am

fustrate_Bohra wrote:
DisillusionedDB wrote:Received another humourous one but the underlying facts cannot be refuted.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8gt4u74rtn9ft ... WA0001.m4a
Just heard, though the audio is humerous but it is 100% fact. Janab do say such things.

Guys I holy month of Ramadan pls dont post any fake audio or make fun of it. This audio is fake.

fustrate_Bohra
Posts: 678
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:46 am

Re: Wajebaats 2014

#34

Unread post by fustrate_Bohra » Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:41 pm

We know audio is fake but whatever is said is true.

SBM
Posts: 6432
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Wajebaats 2014

#35

Unread post by SBM » Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:00 pm

shabbir4u wrote:
fustrate_Bohra wrote: .
Guys I holy month of Ramadan pls dont post any fake audio or make fun of it. This audio is fake.
Br Shabbir4U
Just because it is Ramadan does not mean that we can not have a good Laugh. This audio is purely entertaining and it is very clean, No Gaali Galuch, NO LAANAATS, it is better listening then the waiz of Goons with Laanats.
What you rather have? a entertaining audio at home or a Waiz full of Laanat and that too in the Masjid right after Prayers

soulsurvivor
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:20 pm

Re: Wajebaats 2014

#36

Unread post by soulsurvivor » Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:52 pm

Absolutely hilarious audio..well looks like soon we can be eligible to sin and enjoy the worldly pleasures under the pretext of "Zamaan na halaat" and come pay RAKAMS to receive forgiveness...very similar to christians kneeling in confession box....Instead of training people to preach being pious the aamils are freaking out on cash!!
The mimicry artist will get Khidmat hadiyaah towards end of month :D :D :P

SBM
Posts: 6432
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Wajebaats 2014

#37

Unread post by SBM » Fri Jul 18, 2014 6:00 pm

Received anonymously (donot ask for proof of 15% commission or anything I am just the messenger)
A special iftaar for Bohra VIPs at The Taj. These VIP's are the ones who have collected highest amount of vajebaat in the 1st half of Ramadhan. After Iftar they were gifted cheques 15% of the collection as their commission on collection. These gifts motivate them to perform better and better year after year.
Attachments
image-4.png

Being_Bohra
Posts: 48
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 4:39 am

Re: Wajebaats 2014

#38

Unread post by Being_Bohra » Sat Jul 19, 2014 4:49 am

No wajebaat from me this year. I have decided to give charity on my own. No wajebaat from my brother and couple of relatives too...

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Wajebaats 2014

#39

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sat Jul 19, 2014 5:24 pm

In India, MS is collecting salam envelopes not only for himself but even for "Mazun" inspite of there being no mazun in his daiship. Just like the najwa in the name of hidden Imam even the mazun's najwa directly goes in his pockets.

saminaben
Posts: 132
Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:57 pm

Re: Wajebaats 2014

#40

Unread post by saminaben » Sat Jul 19, 2014 7:44 pm

ghulam muhammed wrote:In India, MS is collecting salam envelopes not only for himself but even for "Mazun" inspite of there being no mazun in his daiship. Just like the najwa in the name of hidden Imam even the mazun's najwa directly goes in his pockets.
Zahir MAA Maazun declare nathi Magar baatin naa Maazun naa kharch, khaawu peewu, luxury travel zarroor Hamey adna Mumin naa pasey si collect karee su.

Baatin samjho, Pachi objection lo.

accountability
Posts: 1640
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Wajebaats 2014

#41

Unread post by accountability » Sat Jul 19, 2014 8:26 pm

SBM that is something. What happened to their namaz and lecture.
it should be eye opener, there is no religion or sprituality. it is just money. its money money money. rich man's world

Liberalguy
Posts: 35
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:10 am

Re: Wajebaats 2014

#42

Unread post by Liberalguy » Mon Jul 21, 2014 2:59 am

Kaka Akela wrote:I survived the fleecing by the clergy this year, my experience was the Aamil tried his level best to scare the crap out of me by saying if i didn't pay the amount that he demanded then Allah will snatch away from me all my wealth and also I may get seriously sick, I will become poor or sick or my house will burn down --- all the usual tactics to scare people into submission which is pretty much standard in all jamaats. Every year he wants to increase my wajebaat for no reason, he has no idea what i make, what i save but the new rules are how much you make not the usual sharia rules.

Another game they play which Aqa Maola never finds out is playing favorites in doling out the tashreef from Maola. Their cronies and chamchas walk away with the shawls for a minimum wajebaat and some big payers like Doctors and big businessmen who are not their favorites but do pay wajebaats in several thousands walk away with a red rumal or a piece of white cloth for a perahen. How would Aqa Maola know who got what??? What a shame for our system of collecting zakkaat. The very people who want you to honest in paying wajebaat are not honest in doling out the tashreefs, amazing.


You could have recorded the conversation and claimed for mental harassment and torture.

And Why on earth you care for tashreef rags. Have some self respect man.

Deerseye
Posts: 89
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:30 am

Re: Wajebaats 2014

#43

Unread post by Deerseye » Mon Jul 21, 2014 3:40 am

I have heard that the Amils in some jamaats are asking everyone to open a icici bank account, everyone is suppose d to deposit units in the multiples of 215rs.this will be each bohras karze hasanat to Kothar.those mumineens who don't open these accounts will not receive any raza for their functions. Is this true? I mean it's getting crazier n crazier. Where are we heading too?..

MMH
Posts: 312
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:22 pm

Re: Wajebaats 2014

#44

Unread post by MMH » Mon Jul 21, 2014 3:57 am

In Dubai, cheques which were drawn on A. N Dawat E hadiyah (Anjumane Najmi which is the name of the Dubai Bohra jamaat) instead of the regular Daawat E Hadiya.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

Why? Maybe max will wake up and answer with his routine abuses...

truth seeker100
Posts: 165
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 5:54 pm

Re: Wajebaats 2014

#45

Unread post by truth seeker100 » Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:36 am

oh yeah where is max james Adam and true_bohra. I miss their ignorance

fustrate_Bohra
Posts: 678
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:46 am

Re: Wajebaats 2014

#46

Unread post by fustrate_Bohra » Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:34 am

I had observed adam only show up on discussion related to nass, well other i think they are internally in conversation with each other for the reply.

Act of ms is the moziza which makes his blind followers (who come out with any lame reason) to shut their mouth.

garibmumin
Posts: 52
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2014 4:53 am

Re: Wajebaats 2014

#47

Unread post by garibmumin » Mon Jul 21, 2014 12:00 pm

ya adam should disclose who is he, coz an abde cannot remain an abde staying here.

Liberalguy
Posts: 35
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:10 am

Re: Wajebaats 2014

#48

Unread post by Liberalguy » Mon Jul 21, 2014 3:15 pm

Liberalguy wrote:
Kaka Akela wrote:I survived the fleecing by the clergy this year, my experience was the Aamil tried his level best to scare the crap out of me by saying if i didn't pay the amount that he demanded then Allah will snatch away from me all my wealth and also I may get seriously sick, I will become poor or sick or my house will burn down --- all the usual tactics to scare people into submission which is pretty much standard in all jamaats. Every year he wants to increase my wajebaat for no reason, he has no idea what i make, what i save but the new rules are how much you make not the usual sharia rules.

Another game they play which Aqa Maola never finds out is playing favorites in doling out the tashreef from Maola. Their cronies and chamchas walk away with the shawls for a minimum wajebaat and some big payers like Doctors and big businessmen who are not their favorites but do pay wajebaats in several thousands walk away with a red rumal or a piece of white cloth for a perahen. How would Aqa Maola know who got what??? What a shame for our system of collecting zakkaat. The very people who want you to honest in paying wajebaat are not honest in doling out the tashreefs, amazing.


You could have recorded the conversation and claimed for mental harassment and torture.

And Why on earth you care for tashreef rags. Have some self respect man.
Correction: I meant mental harassment and extortion and not torture. But that too would be right.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Wajebaats 2014

#49

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:29 pm

Excerpts from an earlier post :-

Off late more resentment in the community has taken place on many fold increased in Sabil. So let us understand the concept of Sabil.

SABIL: Sabil is not a part of Quranic injunctions or Islamic Shari’ah or Shia or Dawoodi Bohra faith. It is a very recent innovation introduced by Sayedna Taher Saifuddin since 1961.

In Dawoodi Bohra history during our 38th Dai Sayedna Ismailji Badruddin Saheb’s time his Mazoon, Sayedi Abdul Qadar Hakimuddin Ibne Mulla Khan Saheb who was born in Rampura (M.P.) but stationed at Burhanpur had introduced “Sabil” strictly for maintenance of old masjid in Burhanpur to be collected by the local Jamat and spend on masjid repairs. It was temporary measure just to serve a local purpose for a certain period. It was a very nominal (Re. 1 per family) voluntary donation.

Sabil literally means “way” or “offering help or drinking water to passerby” is derived from Quranic world “Fi sabilillah” (in the way or name of Allah).

Sayedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb organized a one-day Convention on 5th June 1961 at Saifee Masjid Bombay.

Then Yusuf Najmuddin raised a question “For materializing these welfare schemes through out the community ‘large fund’ will be required, who is going to foot the finance?” Then after some close consultation with Sayedna Saheb he after quoting from Quran at length he said “Allah helps those who help themselves” and with blessings and foresight of Aqa Maula he announced a new Tax “Sabil" saying that the quantum of the tax would be decided by our Bawa Shafeeq.

Initially Sabil was charged on the basis of individual’s income, with a condition that the defaulter/s would be severely penalised and the amount would be recovered with penalty at the time of death or marriage. Thus a voluntary donation was turned in to compulsory (Wajib) tax.

All the welfare scheme and economic upliftment was soon forgotten – but Sabil tax remained.

Now even the earlier basis decided by Sayedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb on which Sabil tax was to be calculated has been forgotten and Sabil is imposed most arbitrarily.

Now Sabil is imposed even on business establishment, shops and factories to extort as much money in the name of Sabil as possible.

The rate of Sabil is increased many fold years after year and it is collected most ruthlessly.

Again crores of rupees are separately collected in the name of renovation and maintenance of masjid through out the world.

Holy month of Ramazan is fast approaching. For Muslims in general it is a month of fasting, prayers and realizing the sufferings of other fellow beings. But for Sayedna Saheb’s establishment Ramazan is a month of extortion, exploitation and amassing maximum wealth.

It is therefore important to understand the taxes the establishment imposes on Bohras and extort under the threat of “Baraat” (excommunication) which is a new innovation. It is illegal, un-Islamic and inhuman. Today since a case against “Baraat” is pending in the Supreme Court of India with its forgone conclusion the Amils dare not excommunicate any one though they may threaten.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Wajebaats 2014

#50

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:38 pm

Nazar Mukam: This is also not as per Quran or Islamic Shariah. It is vow (mannat) money kept aside as offering to hidden Imam. When an orthodox Dawoodi Bohra goes out of his/her house for any adventurous work, or when he/she is in trouble like some dear one has not returned home - lost his/her way in journey - faced with some natural calamity – involved in some legal matter etc. he/she makes a vow to keep aside certain sum of money as offering to hidden Imam and later distributes it among poor and needy Muslims.

Earlier every Dawoodi Bohra house used to keep a separate box of collecting Nazar-Mukam. The money then was given as loan to help some Bohra/s in need and the receiver/s also used to treat this amount as offering to Imam and return as and when he/she was able to pay back.

According to “Haqiqatun Naiaam” a risla written by Sayedi Khoj bin Malak “the system of Nazar-Mukam was devised by our 23rd Sayedna Peerkhan Shujauddin in Ahmedabad. The reason was that Sayedna Qutbuddin Shaheed was beheaded by Sunni ruler of Gujarat and under fear and pressure Dawoodi Bohras were converting to Sunni faith. Some were converted due to economical constraints. To help such needy Bohras, Sayedna Peerkhan Saheb had devised this custom of Nazar-Mukam. Since it benefited the needy Bohras in time of difficulty successive Dais also kept the custom continued among Bohras.

In general Shias there is a tradition of tying some coins on the right arm of a dear one who is going on journey or for any adventurous work. It is known as “Imam Zamin”. Perhaps Sayedna Peerkhan Saheb coined the word Nazar-Imam on the same line which later on came to be known as Nazar-Mukam.

The meaning of word Nazar Mukam: Nazar or Nazarana means offering and Mukam means occasion (like we say “yeh gaur karne ka Mukam hai). Therefore Nazar-Mukan means “Occasional offering” not regular offering like Zakat. Now off course like Zakat and Fitra, Nazar-Mukam is also forcefully collected by the Amils of Sayedna Saheb. It has now lost its significance at it does not help Bohras in need and therefore it is not obligatory to pay any amount to Amil or Sayedna Saheb in the name of Nazar Mukam.

Liberalguy
Posts: 35
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:10 am

Re: Wajebaats 2014

#51

Unread post by Liberalguy » Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:15 pm

It is officially Nazrul Maqaam (AS). Ie nazar (mannat) of maqaam na saheb which refers to Current imam in seclusion. How can someone like you make such a mistake dear Ghulam Mohammad.
Well honestly I don't care what they officially say but if you're saying it wrong you can't convince others of your own proper knowledge on the matter.

The current system of paying the NM collection back to dai is clever cop out. Actually today we pay almost everything to dai with no accountability. How people even agreed to such system in the first place when STS and gang came up with it. How can bohras really be so naive, gullible and helpless.
Last edited by Liberalguy on Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Liberalguy
Posts: 35
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:10 am

Re: Wajebaats 2014

#52

Unread post by Liberalguy » Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:23 pm

What I Wonder is that if they can make such an autocratic system where there was none, what hope there is that one can dismantle it anyhow. If the authority is so powerful to create it, they can definitely preserve it.
The only hope I have is today's information age where it's hard to suppress info and keep people in bubble. Only changing time can change the mind and system along with the support of those who saw the misdeed first and rebelled against tyranny.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Wajebaats 2014

#53

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:33 pm

Liberalguy wrote:It is officially Nazrul Maqaam (AS). Ie nazar (mannat) of maqaam na saheb which refers to Current imam in seclusion. How can someone like you make such a mistake dear Ghulam Mohammad.
I think this is what precisely the writer of the post also says, BTW, this is an excerpt of an article written by Mr.S.Insaf some time back and I have only reproduced its contents.

Liberalguy
Posts: 35
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:10 am

Re: Wajebaats 2014

#54

Unread post by Liberalguy » Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:01 pm

Okies. The meaning is same but not the word. The author has said nazrul mukam referring to occasion but its actually maqam ie maqam na saheb.

haq_ni_dawat
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed May 21, 2014 8:30 am

Re: Wajebaats 2014

#55

Unread post by haq_ni_dawat » Fri Jul 25, 2014 6:47 am

please listen to this very carefully.
Attachments
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(156.48 KiB) Downloaded 1410 times

DisillusionedDB
Posts: 380
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 7:20 am

Re: Wajebaats 2014

#56

Unread post by DisillusionedDB » Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:20 am

haq_ni_dawat wrote:please listen to this very carefully.
? ? Didn't catch anything :?

MMH
Posts: 312
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:22 pm

Re: Wajebaats 2014

#57

Unread post by MMH » Fri Jul 25, 2014 12:59 pm

same here...couldn't figure out anything!!

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Wajebaats 2014

#58

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Fri Jul 25, 2014 4:50 pm

watsup msg :

1) Zakat
2) Khums
3) Nazar Muqam
4) Kaffaras
5) Minnat
6) Najwa
7) Silatul Imaan
8) Dai ul asar Najwa
9) Haqun Nafs
10) Haj-e-badal
11) Mawaasat
12) Faizul Mawaid
13) Qarze Hasanah
14) Ramazan Niyaz
15) Iftaar Hoob
16) Mohurrum Niyaz
17) Dai Duat Niyaz
18) Zikra Thaal
19) Tabudaat Hoob
20) Sabeel
21) Establishment Sabeel
22) Saify Barkat
23) Residential Sabeel
24) Maintenance Hoob
25) Nazafat
26) Eid-ul-Fitr Salam
27) Eid-ul-Adha Salam
28) General Misaq Salam
29) Sitaabi Raza
30) Majlis Raza
31) Every pehli raat Salam
32) Every Raza Salam
33) Aqeeqo
34) Visit Fund
35) Masjid Fund
36) All Ziyarat Galla Fund.

Baaki kuch bacha hai (Bankrupt)..... Tame tel leva jao

The most passionate community in the world, but for how long ??

This is the beginning......... you have not seen the end !!

think_for_yourself
Posts: 406
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:12 pm

Re: Wajebaats 2014

#59

Unread post by think_for_yourself » Fri Jul 25, 2014 5:21 pm

:mrgreen: I did hear "PDB" :mrgreen:

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Wajebaats 2014

#60

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Fri Jul 25, 2014 5:45 pm

Professor Juzar Bandukwala who is born bohra but ex-communicated (Baraat) and who has suffered a lot during the Gujarat 2002 Mass genocide runs Zidni Ilma Charitable trust. Every year they collect through zakat and lillah about Rs.40 lakhs, which is then distributed among students going for higher education in medicine and engineering. This trust has almost zero administrative expense. There is no office, no peon. The President ,the General Secretary and Treasurer, operate from their own homes, and work as their own peons and clerks. Even at meetings, tea or snacks are paid for by some committee members.