A Bohra Senior Citizen Of Surat Commits Suicide.

[MUSTAPH]

Hey this forum seems like just another mode of all anti people come and back bite the leaders. This whole post had started with abbasbhai sabuwala I have tried to find out from someone in surat n they are unaware about it. Instead of commenting so much first lets find out if there is any fire in this smoke. Is there no authenticate proof to this incident. Some qutbivmuffy had posted some article which was of 2013 about some abbas makkawala, to me this article also seemed like a made up one as there is no mention of the name of the paper. And you know guys today dtp can do anything.

I m not an abde but I also hate to accuse anything or anyone without any reason. I think we are not here to do gibat

[MUSTAPH]

Ghulam muhammed

i have read many articles of your on this forum n have appreciated them but if there is no authenticate proof of this given we all will have to start thinking about the fact behind your articles or your true intentions.

[SBM]

Hey this forum seems like just another mode of all anti people come and back bite the leaders. This whole post had started with abbasbhai sabuwala I have tried to find out from someone in surat n they are unaware about it. Instead of commenting so much first lets find out if there is any fire in this smoke. Is there no authenticate proof to this incident. Some qutbivmuffy had posted some article which was of 2013 about some abbas makkawala, to me this article also seemed like a made up one as there is no mention of the name of the paper. And you know guys today dtp can do anything.

I m not an abde but I also hate to accuse anything or anyone without any reason. I think we are not here to do gibat

So Mustaph
It is okay if some one committed suicide in 2013 due to Wajebaat pressure. If you find that it was made up what do you think about SMS making up stories every day in the Waiz. He and his Goons pays newspapers everyday to make up the stories like SBUT project. Did you ever challenged your Aamil
What do you say about the audio of Surat do you think that is also made up too...

[DisillusionedDB]

I with my two friends used to give money in ramzan to some poor widows and people with some contribution from wealthy businessmen in Ujjain and Indore region. But later find out that these Bohras though genuinely in need of money, giving substantial amount for masalla space in masjids and in vajebat. Father of the child whose school fees i was paying is giving qardan hasana envelops every friday. i know they are poor but some time we feel what is the sense of helping such fools if our money ultimately goes in the wrong hands.

Then don't extend monetary help. According to the amount, give them foodgrains, clothes, fees for children, essential items for house etc. That's what I do. I only extend monetary help to those who ask for it for repaying a loan or for some other use which I cannot fulfil in a material way.

[MUSTAPH]

SBM
we will discuss the 2013 sucide being ok or no after we prove it to be true. Could also be made up stories like this one made up by Ghulam. About SMS and goons making up stories I agree with you n don't need to ask any aamil as I do not trust them. But this is not the reason to make up stories and misguide the people who trust in your sayings.

[MUSTAPH]

Ghulam muhammed

by the way where are you no comments from you. I frankly want your story to be true because this will make me loose trust on all your posts which will make me feel guilty.

[New]

Please, can some one authenticate the Surat, suicide story as I want to donate money to Mrs. Sabuwala.

Also the image is not very clear for the Valsaad and Khandwa story.

[MUSTAPH]

New
Don't bother as these are the stories made by these reformist just to defame the DB.

[ghulam muhammed]

Ghulam muhammed

by the way where are you no comments from you. I frankly want your story to be true because this will make me loose trust on all your posts which will make me feel guilty.

You seemed to be a very reasonable person but suddenly your attitude is disturbing. What proof do you want me to give you ? Do you need a video recording of the lady or her written statement ? If that is what you are looking for then brother its not possible because no oppressed poor bohra family will ever come out in the open and address their grievances due to the fear of Kothar who will then make their lives miserable. The only valid proof that you can get is by contacting your friends in Surat and asking them to verify the story, this is the best you can do because you do not trust anyone else hence its better that you yourself take the pains of verifying the truth. Your doubts are legitimate if it concerns some old incidents or if the incident is quoted without disclosing the names and address of the effected people and not otherwise.

[Kharas_Mithas]

Ghulam muhammed

by the way where are you no comments from you. I frankly want your story to be true because this will make me loose trust on all your posts which will make me feel guilty.

You seemed to be a very reasonable person but suddenly your attitude is disturbing. What proof do you want me to give you ? Do you need a video recording of the lady or her written statement ? If that is what you are looking for then brother its not possible because no oppressed poor bohra family will ever come out in the open and address their grievances due to the fear of Kothar who will then make their lives miserable. The only valid proof that you can get is by contacting your friends in Surat and asking them to verify the story, this is the best you can do because you do not trust anyone else hence its better that you yourself take the pains of verifying the truth. Your doubts are legitimate if it concerns some old incidents or if the incident is quoted without disclosing the names and address of the effected people and not otherwise.

I contacted one of my known in Surat with an intention to help the family of mr. Sabuwala, but they were unaware of the incident and couldnt provide any details. I will keep on trying and update the forum.
GM, if your source of information has there details you can pass it on, so that we can collectively help and get sawab in this mubarak month.

[wise_guy]

Surat is not a small town. It is a city with a huge bohra population. It would be difficult to track I guess since such matters are hushed up. I am sure, the jamat might have forced them to hush up the matter.

[New]

I would say the suicide would be a police matter and the whole town would know. There has to be a news paper article. If he died from natural causes then we should verify that he ever existed. Any rate l would like to contribute if the widow has medical needs.

[DisillusionedDB]

This is to shut up all the doubters .. I have verified from 2 different sources about the story of Mr. Sabuwala and it is true. But I am not yet satisfied so I have asked someone else, whom I trust, to go and confirm it personally. As soon as I receive news from him, I will post more details here.

[Being_Bohra]

Unfortunately this is true...confirmed with my relative in Surat.

[AmmarHussaini]

what is so surprising?

why it cant be true?

but yes dont expect abdes to come and apologize they will remain silent for some time and then suddenly show up when some thing more favorable will come up.

[DisillusionedDB]

This is to shut up all the doubters .. I have verified from 2 different sources about the story of Mr. Sabuwala and it is true. But I am not yet satisfied so I have asked someone else, whom I trust, to go and confirm it personally. As soon as I receive news from him, I will post more details here.

Now it's 100% confirmed true.

[Maqbool]

I also verified and it is a confirm news.

[alam]

Suicide, I'm afraid is taboo in DB community.
Unfortunete though.

But we live in a culture of a lot of taboos:
Suicide is one of them.
Alcoholism is another
Asking questions is a third
Influence by coercion is 4th (coercion defined as guilt tripping, humiliation, excommunication or threat of, us eof laanat,, overuse and imappropriate of Use of concept of dushman munafik, Satan,)

Need I go on?

[Truth_Seeker]

Kalu Innallaha Wa Inna Ileha Rajeun...

I read this news and my heart cried - there are still tears in my eyes.

What have we become really? In the Month of ALLAH, such incidents happen - how much desperation he would have had to take such a drastic step. May ALLAH give strength to his immediate family and his near and dear ones.

All that was required to save this life was 30 people who would have refused to pay the Masallah space costs in the Masjid - that's all. But then, who would these 30 people be - definitely we dont want to be a part of that, isnt it? Who would bell the cat - not us for sure, maybe someone else, who cares! Who would wan to help a fellow Momin who doesnt have anywhere else to go - who has no other hope, no other support - well we have better things to spend upon - like sponsoring Jamans, Ziyafats, and filling the coffers of the corrupt Kothar. We call ourselves Momin - far from that, we are not even human!

The next time you raise your hands to do Matam for Imam Ali or Imam Hussain, give it a thought - do you even deserve to be called a Momin or a Shia or a Muslim, or a human?

P.S - My anger and ire is not directed at any individual or group, but in general the state of Bohras today. May ALLAH guide us on Siratal Mustakeem...

[way2go]

Personally I feel MUSTAPH bhai needs to apologise to ghulam mohamedbhai for not believing his post on the very sad suicide by a fellow bohra.....this especially after DissillusionedDB, Being_Bohra and Maqbool confirmed the authenticity of the story.
Lailatul Qadr Mubarak to all. Dua Maa Yaad!!

[DisillusionedDB]

Personally I feel MUSTAPH bhai needs to apologise to ghulam mohamedbhai for not believing his post on the very sad suicide by a fellow bohra.....this especially after DissillusionedDB, Being_Bohra and Maqbool confirmed the authenticity of the story.
Lailatul Qadr Mubarak to all. Dua Maa Yaad!!

I still think that Mustaphbhai is waiting for a letter with photographs authenticating the news which is signed and stamped by the President as well as the Prime Minister of India. Maybe then he might believe it.
And as for apologising to GM bhai .. forget it .. He knows what he is doing and he is not going to be easily swayed/influenced/affected by such comments.

[alam]

Personally I feel MUSTAPH bhai needs to apologise to ghulam mohamedbhai for not believing his post on the very sad suicide by a fellow bohra.....this especially after DissillusionedDB, Being_Bohra and Maqbool confirmed the authenticity of the story.
Lailatul Qadr Mubarak to all. Dua Maa Yaad!!

No point asking an apology. Apology is an apology when it is freely given, not at the suggestion from someone else, and that too so publicly on a forum. It is Mustaphbhai's prerogative. Leave him alone and lets move on.

[ghulam muhammed]

Personally I feel MUSTAPH bhai needs to apologise to ghulam mohamedbhai for not believing his post on the very sad suicide by a fellow bohra

Brothers,

There is no need for bro MUSTAPH to apologise as he had every right to verify the news, his doubts were legitimate as there are many cases wherein people use such tricks to extract money mostly by gaining sympathy. I was only saddened when he was reluctant to believe the story inspite of me providing the name and address of the person, at best he could have verified from his own sources if he had any doubt.

[ghulam muhammed]

After the news appeared on this forum and was circulated on watsup and the resultant uproar of concerned Bohras, a source from Surat has informed that the son of Abbasbhai was summoned by the local Amil. Now what transpired between the two is anybody's guess !!

[DisillusionedDB]

After the news appeared on this forum and was circulated on watsup and the resultant uproar of concerned Bohras, a source from Surat has informed that the son of Abbasbhai was summoned by the local Amil. Now what transpired between the two is anybody's guess !!

Instead of apologising for not "being there" to help the deceased person, I am sure they must have threatened him for creating a ruckus over this issue and maligning the clergy.

[AmmarHussaini]

shame on those who still jump upon give us proof and stuff, and when proof are presented they don't even apologize....this remind of this ayat of Quraan.

Punished- 25:77 Say to the kafirs: My Lord does not care for you or your prayers. You have rejected the truth, so sooner or later, a punishment will come.

[MUSTAPH]

Hey all I really admire people on this forum who go to an extent to verify the truth and also are able to find out the most inside story of a family. I also feel very sorry for asking for some evidence against a statement made unfavouring the dawat. I really thought this forum is to speak out the facts that the members of DB cannot speak in public. I was maybe mistaken , people on this forum are only interested in hearing against DB community and office bearers.
Well, I have tried my best of sources to find out the truth behind this story and have only been able to understand that mrs. Sabuwala is in hospital and there was a sudden death of Mr. Sabuwala who is believed to have committed sucide. But, there is no news of any vajebaat harassment angle to this story. There was a statement made by Shoiab Sabuwala to one of the reliable sources is that because of his mother being in hospital since the beginning of Ramadan they have not gone to pay vajebaat yet. And as it is there are numerous people who pay vajebaat by the end of Ramadan. This article was posted by Ghulam Muhammed on the 17th July i.e., 20th Ramadan which says this incident was yesterday. So, the pressure must have come earlier to that let say 18th Ramadan. Does anyone know the force on vajebaat as early as that of Ramadan as many people not paying in lakhs of rupees go to pay vajebaat only during these days. So, why was the pressure only on Abbasbhai Sabuwala before this.
I also admit that this is a very sensitive issue for the family and they would hesitate in disclosing these facts to anyone apart from the very close family. So, the query still stands how did ghulam mohammed find out the details about the vajebaat angle to this. And all those supporters who have found the facts can any of you give any evidence about the vajebaat angle to this.
I also understand its not quiet possible to prove the vajebaat angle, but if so than unless one has evidence I suppose it shall not be correct to post these matters as these are sensitive to the believers and also leads astray to the unbelievers.
We are all on this forum the rational thinkers who understand that the things going on in dawaat are wrong, so let us all remain that and not start thinking any statement made against is correct. And please request you stand on are you against DB as a community or are you against the brain washing in DB.

[AmmarHussaini]

suicide is never a sudden act but the guy must be having pressure and suffering from depression from long time, and specially when ramadan approach every one knows how much pressure local amil applies on every one to extract each and every penny out of people pocket.

since his wife was critically ill and he is old man he could not handle the pressure and decided to better leave this world rather than dying every day.

it has to be linked with vajebaat pressure because no muslim will ever try to suicide specially in month of ramadan unless the pressure was intolerable.

[DisillusionedDB]

It is not surprising that you just kept on harping about the wajebat pressure as if it were more serious than the poor man committing suicide. The gist of the matter is - Why did matters come to such a head that he had to commit suicide ? Did you know that when he knocked on the doors of the dawat, he was turned away ? Do you also know that he did not receive any muwasat amount which he used to get previously ? How much can a man bear with a pittance of an income, an ailing wife and an indifferent dawat ? And yes, before you start asking me for proof of all this, let me tell you that I have verified this personally. Now even after this, if you wish to argue on non-sensical points, rest assured no one is going to answer you on the subject, at least not me.
And yes, it can be indirectly linked to wajebat pressure too as the poor man must have been worried how he would pay for the same. Jinko zakat milni chahiye, unse bhi zakat ki vasuli ki jaati hai.

Hey all I really admire people on this forum who go to an extent to verify the truth and also are able to find out the most inside story of a family. I also feel very sorry for asking for some evidence against a statement made unfavouring the dawat. I really thought this forum is to speak out the facts that the members of DB cannot speak in public. I was maybe mistaken , people on this forum are only interested in hearing against DB community and office bearers.
Well, I have tried my best of sources to find out the truth behind this story and have only been able to understand that mrs. Sabuwala is in hospital and there was a sudden death of Mr. Sabuwala who is believed to have committed sucide. But, there is no news of any vajebaat harassment angle to this story. There was a statement made by Shoiab Sabuwala to one of the reliable sources is that because of his mother being in hospital since the beginning of Ramadan they have not gone to pay vajebaat yet. And as it is there are numerous people who pay vajebaat by the end of Ramadan. This article was posted by Ghulam Muhammed on the 17th July i.e., 20th Ramadan which says this incident was yesterday. So, the pressure must have come earlier to that let say 18th Ramadan. Does anyone know the force on vajebaat as early as that of Ramadan as many people not paying in lakhs of rupees go to pay vajebaat only during these days. So, why was the pressure only on Abbasbhai Sabuwala before this.
I also admit that this is a very sensitive issue for the family and they would hesitate in disclosing these facts to anyone apart from the very close family. So, the query still stands how did ghulam mohammed find out the details about the vajebaat angle to this. And all those supporters who have found the facts can any of you give any evidence about the vajebaat angle to this.
I also understand its not quiet possible to prove the vajebaat angle, but if so than unless one has evidence I suppose it shall not be correct to post these matters as these are sensitive to the believers and also leads astray to the unbelievers.
We are all on this forum the rational thinkers who understand that the things going on in dawaat are wrong, so let us all remain that and not start thinking any statement made against is correct. And please request you stand on are you against DB as a community or are you against the brain washing in DB.

[humanbeing]

Franklly, I have never come across any pressure on paying up wajebaat, there is harassment on non-payment. But it will amount to harassment when I need their services and they deny it due to non payment of wajebaat. To me I don’t need their services so there is no harassment.
I do hear stories of how amils are persuading or putting undue influence on the abde to cough up more amounts. At max the pressure is persuasion or undue influence, but never a threat. Such persuasion or undue influence can be shooed off by being firm and bold. Even Kothari agents try their tricks on those who submit in obedience the abde has the wool to shave off. For rest they accept whatever they can extract without controversy. In today’s volatile scenario it is like “ Bhaagta-Bhoot-ni-Langoti-Bhali”
Apart from wajebat they keep begging for some donations here and there, they just keep begging and take benefits of whatever flows in.
Mostly kothar has enough foolish rich abdes to sponsor their ayyash lifestyles, collection from rest is like bonus amount collected : Sone-Pe-Suhaga
Rest of the services are well paid to cover their expenses.