Bohras on hadith of: Mohamed PBUH is city of knowledge

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Munira_RV
Posts: 157
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:38 pm

Bohras on hadith of: Mohamed PBUH is city of knowledge

#1

Unread post by Munira_RV » Mon Sep 29, 2014 4:54 am

Dawoodi Bohras dogma: Mohamed PBUH is literate and have knowledge of reading/writing Arabic.

All non-Bohras like Sunni, Ithna Asheri, etc believes: Prophet Mohamed PBUH was 'ummi' i.e. illiterate and didn't have knowledge of reading and writing.

Quran, Sura Nisa, verse 113: But for the Grace of God to thee and his Mercy, a party of them would certainly have plotted to lead thee astray. But (in fact) they will only Lead their own souls astray, and to thee they can do no harm in the least. For God hath sent down to thee the Book and wisdom and taught thee what thou Knewest not (before): And great is the Grace of God unto thee. This verse proves non-Bohras contentions as erroneous.

Some similar other verses besides Nisa:113 are:
(1) Surah Jinn (72): 26-27,
(2) Surah Naml, 27:16;
(3) Surah Yusuf, 12:68;
(4) Surah Yusuf, 12:96;
(5) Surah Qasas, 28:14.
(6) Surah Baqarah, 2: 251

All believe in hadith where Prophet PBUH said, "I am the city of knowledge...". In common sense it seems not possible that a person who claim to be "City of Knowledge" doesn't even have the basics of knowledge = how to read/write! Thus non-Bohras dogmas are unintelligent and erroneous, where else dogmas of Bohras are in line with Quran, Hadith and appeals to intelligence.



haqniwaat
Posts: 516
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:06 pm

#2

Unread post by haqniwaat » Mon Sep 29, 2014 7:20 pm

Glad you noticed. Usually, these beliefs are imparted during Ashara waaz.



aliabbaskhw
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:08 am

#3

Unread post by aliabbaskhw » Tue Sep 30, 2014 12:21 am

Dear Munira RV
Kindly correct your self as Khoja Shia or Ithnasheri always believe that Prophet Muhammad PBUH was literate. In their majlises ( i have attended myself) have heard this. For references you can search for Majlis videos of Allama Talib Johri, Allama Zameer Akter Naqvi, Dr. Kalbain Sadiq or Allama Irfan Haider Abidi (Marhoom). In Allama Irfan Haider Abidi (Marhoom) one of majlis he himself said about the history event in which Holy Prophet PBUH asked for pen and paper and who were the culprits who refused to give him.



Munira_RV
Posts: 157
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:38 pm

#4

Unread post by Munira_RV » Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:57 am

aliabbaskhw wrote:Dear Munira RV
Kindly correct your self as Khoja Shia or Ithnasheri always believe that Prophet Muhammad PBUH was literate. In their majlises ( i have attended myself) have heard this. For references you can search for Majlis videos of Allama Talib Johri, Allama Zameer Akter Naqvi, Dr. Kalbain Sadiq or Allama Irfan Haider Abidi (Marhoom). In Allama Irfan Haider Abidi (Marhoom) one of majlis he himself said about the history event in which Holy Prophet PBUH asked for pen and paper and who were the culprits who refused to give him.
Above names are of 'salesmen' and NOT of authorised authority of Ithna Asher sect. Their sales-talk doesn't constitute the dogmas of Ithna Asheri!

The matter of fact is in their greed to make their sales-talk more saleable they conveniently discard Ithna Asheri's official stand and copy logical reasoning of Dawoodi Bohras. As per the official stand of Ithna's they consider Prophet Mohamed PBUH to be illiterate like their counterparts Sunni's. I'll also give example of your one very famous speaker: Mirza Mohammad Athar sahib , he in his 2014 speech said, Umme Ismail Hazar w/o Prophet Ibrahim was "Masooma". Note - When Ithna Asher's are cornered on the point that their all Imam's from Hazrat Musa Kazim onwards were son of slave-women and none of them were son of proper Muslima mother, where else all Ismaili Fatimi Imams were always son of proper Muslima mother - so to counter this state of their weakness Ithna Asheri joins the camp of Yahoodi and Christians by endorsing their stand that Hazar was slave girl and Prophet Mohamed PBUH was son (progeny) of Hazar, the slave girl, so if Mohamed PBUH is acceptable then so are their Imams! So you see, Ithna's consider Hazar w/o Prophet Ibrahim (A) as slave-girl where else super-salesman Mirza Athar sahib to validate his points to charm listeners applauds raised Hazar to the state of "Masooma"! Hence proven, practicing double-standards is life blood and jugular-vien of Ithna Asheri's salesmen.

Hence, sales-talk by these above salesmen's of Ithna Asheri do not constitute their religious dogmas.

Authorised person of Ithna Asheri's are their Ayatullahs, who are self-appointed to speak on behalf of Allah (Aayat of Allah), they are self-appointed spokesmen's of Allah.

In book, "AL-MAHDI (A.S.)" by AYATULLAH Sayyed Sadrudin Sadr - categorically has given in writing the official stand of Ithna Asheri = They consider Prophet of Islam Mohamed PBUH as 'Ummi', illiterate.


Act of Mohamed PBUH is the Sunnat. One should do as Mohamed PBUH did. As both Sunni and Ithna Asheri believes Mohamed PBUH was illiterate so, they too act on this sunnat, they should too remain illiterate. And those among them who become literate should repent to God for acting contrary to sunnat of Prophet PBUH! Non-Bohras are irrational, illogical and stupid in most aspect of their religious dogmas. That is why Prophet Mohamed PHUB said, except one, rest all sects will go into hell-fire.



Ummul Bani
Posts: 104
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:09 am

#5

Unread post by Ummul Bani » Tue Sep 30, 2014 6:06 pm

Munira_RV wrote:In common sense it seems not possible that a person who claim to be "City of Knowledge" doesn't even have the basics of knowledge = how to read/write! Thus non-Bohras dogmas are unintelligent and erroneous, where else dogmas of Bohras are in line with Quran, Hadith and appeals to intelligence.
This is a patently false assumption in my opinion.
What is more perplexing is that it seems to have formed a basis for a religious dogma (bohra dogma).

My personal take is that knowledge and literacy are not correlated.Literacy as we know is just the ability to read and write. It can only help you take care of your day to day tasks and that's it. Whereas knowledge is a repository of wisdom, experiences etc. It is a much broader concept.

What I am trying to convey is that an individual may be literate but may not be knowledgeable. Conversely, an individual can be knowledgeable without being a literate as that is not the only way to become knowledgeable.
Knowledge can also be acquired simply by way of interactions/conversations, exploring etc. One can also be knowledgeable solely due to one's God given intellect. Literacy plays no role here.
Therefore, being a literate is not a precondition for being knowledgeable which in turn implies that an illiterate person can well be knowledgeable.
So just as it is wrongly assumed that the Prophet (pbuh) was literate as he was "City of Knowledge" , it can well be assumed also that he was indeed "City Of Knowledge" without having to be a literate himself.
Munira_RV wrote: Act of Mohamed PBUH is the Sunnat. One should do as Mohamed PBUH did. As both Sunni and Ithna Asheri believes Mohamed PBUH was illiterate so, they too act on this sunnat, they should too remain illiterate.

Whether people are literate or illiterate is something which is also governed by a lot of other factors. For example, if one is illiterate due to financial or other unavoidable circumstances , would you accuse him of not following the Sunnah?



ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

#6

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Tue Sep 30, 2014 6:52 pm

Allah Says in the Holy Quran Chapter 7 Surah Aaraf verses 157-158:

157 "Those who follow the Messenger, the ‘Ummi’ (unlettered) Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (Scriptures); in the Law and the Gospel; for he commands them what is just and forbids them what is evil: he allows them as lawful what is good (and pure) and prohibits them from what is bad (and impure); He releases them from their heavy burdens and from the yokes that are upon them. So it is those who believe in him honor him help him and follow the light which is sent down with him it is they who will prosper."

158 Say: "O men! I am sent unto you all as the Messenger of Allah to Whom belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth: there is no god but He: it is He that giveth both life and death. So believe in Allah and His Messenger, the ‘Ummi’ (unlettered) Prophet who believed in Allah and His Words: follow him that (so) ye may be guided."


The literal meaning of the Arabic term ‘Ummi’ when applied to an individual, means one who is illiterate and cannot read or write.

Allah Says in the Holy Quran Chapter 62 Surah Jumuaa verse 2:

2 It is He Who has sent amongst the ‘Ummi’ (unlettered) a Messenger from among themselves, to rehearse to them His Signs, to sanctify them, and to instruct them in Scripture and Wisdom; although they had been before in manifest error


But when the Quran uses the term ‘Ummi’ for a people or a nation, it refers to the Arabs of that time, who were considered to be ignorant about Divine Scriptures in comparison to the People of the Book who had a longer tradition of learning the Divine Scriptures. The Jews especially were extremely proud of their heritage of the Prophets who were sent to them, and their Divine Scriptures, and their learning, that they normally used this term ‘Ummi’ as a derogatory term to mean a ‘Gentile’: anyone who was not a Jew.

In light of the Quran and the Sunnah, there is absolutely no doubt and it is absolutely true that our beloved and Noble Last and Final Messenger of Allah, the one who was sent as a Mercy and a Guide to all mankind until the end of time, the one whose knowledge, wisdom, and intelligence surpasses any man who ever walked on this planet earth, Mohamed ar-Rasool Allah (saws) was indeed ‘illeterate’: meaning, he (saws) could not read or write!

Today, when one hears the term ‘illiterate’, they try to understand the term with its currently used connotation; because it is obvious that if one is illiterate, he neither knows how to read or write, and thus cannot derive any knowledge from the volumes of books which are the only available sources of millenniums of humanly acquired knowledge.

Some believers, who sincerely love and respect the Messenger of Allah (saws) find it difficult to comprehend that how can this most remarkable teacher of teachers be ‘illiterate’? How can this man, who was sent as a leader to all mankind, be illiterate? How can this man, who is the ‘imam’ of all the Prophets, be illiterate? How can this man, who cannot even read and write, dictate a Book which is to be the source of Guidance for all mankind until the end of time???

They just cannot fathom and comprehend this fact; so they, in their genuine love and respect for the Prophet of Allah (saws), deny that he (saws) was illiterate!!!

Most scholars and teachers learn their knowledge through years and years of study from the collection of written material made available to them. The fact that this illiterate man from the desert, whom the people knew for 40 years , suddenly comes out one day with the blazing and eloquent poetry of a Book the like of the Quran is in itself a miracle, and a proof that indeed he (saws) was directly guided by Allah, The Lord of the Worlds! Thus instead of being ashamed or thinking that this belittles the elevated and supreme status and position of our noble Prophet (saws); we should realize that this very fact that no man was/is/or will ever be able to produce wisdom and literature of the like of the Glorious Quran, is in itself the biggest proof that he (saws) was indeed the chosen and appointed Prophet of Allah, and the words of the Quran could not be the work of a man; but rather they are the very Words of the Lord of the Worlds!

When the disbelievers saw that a man who spent 40 long years amongst them, whom they knew could not read or write, suddenly comes out one day and starts reciting the like of the Quran, and declares himself to be the chosen Prophet of Allah (saws), they called him every imaginable name they could think of! The called him a liar even though they knew that for 40 years he never spoke a lie; a sooth-sayer even though they knew he never was, a madman when he was the sanest man in the universe, one who is possessed, a poet, etc.! These disbelievers just could not fathom that a man who could put the best poets of Arabia to shame, was indeed what he (saws) claimed to be: The Chosen Prophet of Allah.

But the people who were not proud, whose hearts were open to Guidance, who knew and recognized him (saws) as the Truthful, who realized and recognized the Words of the Quran could not be the work of a mere human being; believed in the claim of this noble and illiterate man from the deserts of Arabia: that he (saws) was indeed the Prophet of Allah Subhanah!

Allah says in the Holy Quran Chapter 29 Surah Ankaboot verse 48:

(O Prophet), you did not read any book before this, nor did you write any with your hand. If it were so, the worshippers of falsehood could have been involved in doubt.


And the single biggest evidence that the Prophet (saws) was indeed unable to read and write, are the very words of Allah Subhanah in His Glorious Quran in the above Aayah of Surah Ankaboot verse 48! Allah Subhanah clearly declares that never did Prophet Mohamed (saws) ever read any book before this, nor did he (saws) ever write any! And the wisdom for keeping the Prophet illiterate is given in the very next sentence of the same Aayah: “If it were so, the worshippers of falsehood could have been involved in doubt!”

Because if indeed the Prophet (saws), who lived 40 long years amongst his people, could read and write…then the unbelievers could easily claim that he (saws) had read the previous Scriptures or had conjured up this Glorious Book himself! But Allah Subhanah, in His Divine and Absolute Wisdom did not even want this window of doubt to be left open to the disbelievers! The disbelievers who heard the noble words of the Quran, knew that this could not be the work of a mere man…but in their pride and arrogance, just did not want to comprehend how can this simple, illiterate, orphan desert Arab could be chosen as a Prophet above all the other people of the land!

But the Lord does whatever He Wills! And to prove that Mohamed (saws) was indeed the Chosen Prophet of Allah, and to prove that the Noble Quran was indeed the Words of the All-Mighty Lord, Allah Subhanah challenged the disbelievers to all get together and produce the like of the Quran! Nay: produce ten Surahs like it! Nay: produce even only one Surah like it; if indeed they were in any doubt that such a Book as the Quran could be produced by a mere mortal!!!

In light of the Quran and the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allah (saws), there is absolutely no doubt and it is absolutely true that our noble and beloved Prophet (saws) could neither read nor write; but Allah is our witness, no man who ever walked on this planet earth had more wisdom, or more knowledge, or more understanding, or more intelligence than this Noble and Truthful orphan from the desert of Arabia, the Last and Final Messenger of Allah, Mohamed ar-Rasool Allah (saws)!

http://www.islamhelpline.net/qa/prophet ... ummi-quran



maethist
Posts: 152
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 3:28 pm

#7

Unread post by maethist » Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:29 am

Allah says in the Holy Quran Chapter 29 Surah Ankaboot verse 48:

(O Prophet), you did not read any book before this, nor did you write any with your hand. If it were so, the worshippers of falsehood could have been involved in doubt.


And the single biggest evidence that the Prophet (saws) was indeed unable to read and write, are the very words of Allah Subhanah in His Glorious Quran in the above Aayah of Surah Ankaboot verse 48! Allah Subhanah clearly declares that never did Prophet Mohamed (saws) ever read any book before this, nor did he (saws) ever write any! And the wisdom for keeping the Prophet illiterate is given in the very next sentence of the same Aayah: “If it were so, the worshippers of falsehood could have been involved in doubt!”
This is what the Quran really says in the ayat 48.

"You did not recite from any scripture previously revealed (referenced in verse 47), nor that which you are now reciting is of your own design (creation)."

No conclusion about Prophet's literacy can be derived from this verse. He could recite, literate or illiterate, from previous scriptures which he did not do. Nor did he recite that which he had himself created.

Analysis of 'takhattuhu' and 'biyaminika' gives it away.

Prophet's literacy is inconclusive from what has been written by forum participants here.

His alleged illiteracy serves as a linchpin for the argument that since Prophet could not write, Quran is not his creation but God's creation. It is a silly argument since Prophet, even if he could write, apparently did not write the Quran anyway.



Munira_RV
Posts: 157
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:38 pm

#8

Unread post by Munira_RV » Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:25 am

truth seeker100 wrote:munira bohra is a truly stupid sect. you believe in an imam uz zaman that hasn't shown his face in 300 years. in fact everything you called non bohras is what bohras are. stupid and irrational. if you truly believe in your stupid dai concept than you are stupid.believing in your fairy tail fatemi beliefs is stupid. bohras are not even proper muslims. believing wether or not the prophet was literate or not has nothing to do with our salvation. and about you im playing that bohras are the only sect to go to heaven!!! hahahaha. bohras would be the last sect to go to heaven, seeing that you guys are more hindu then muslim.
1. Allah too is "ghayab" and has not revealed his face to commoners since past 300 years and beyond. So with your intelligent logic, you should stop believing in Allah.

2. In court of Mughal King Akbar at the venue of 'Ibadat Khana' in Fatehpur Sikri - in the debate all Sunni's and Ithna Asheri scholars were defeated by the Bohra Dai. Emperor Akbar offered Bohra Dai to join his court, but latter politely didn't accept. The Royal Decree issued by Emperor Akbar in favour of Bohra Dai was written with Gold Ink, and such honour was bestowed to NONE of the religion leaders of Sunni's and Ithna Asheri!!! [Reference from book: 'Aqd Al Jawahir Fi Ahwaal Al Bawahir' by Sunni historian Molana Sayyed Abu Zafar Nadwi sahib].

3. All important inventions in the Golden period of Islam was commissioned/invented by Fatimi Imams like: Fountain pen, modern concept of University, pin hole camera (mother of all modern day camera), optical science, medicine, chemistry... Where else Sunni's Abbasi caliph only copy/pasted Greek and Indian science into Arabic and promoted & bundled as development of Islamic knowledge = bigotry.

4. When your fellow community member take out "taziya" procession to celebrate victory of Yazeed and murder of our leader Imam Hussain (A) - in that taziya procession - your all fellows make structure of paper, aluminium, bamboo, decorate it with lights and other material - then they offer coconut to that structure!!! They hang phool-maala (garland) over the 'taziya' and fit lemon on top of spears, then they will light scent sticks and will seek blessings from that 'taziya'!!! This is indeed way of Hindu's.



anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

#9

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:33 am

1. Allah too is "ghayab" and has not revealed his face to commoners since past 300 years and beyond. So with your intelligent logic, you should stop believing in Allah.
You should not compare humans to Allah. Allah has revealed a book describing himself. Has your Imam revealed any book describing himself? You are sounding just as stupid as badrijanab. Uski bechareki jis tarah se durgati bani, aapki bhi ban jayegi.



Munira_RV
Posts: 157
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:38 pm

#10

Unread post by Munira_RV » Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:44 am

Ummul Bani wrote:
Munira_RV wrote:In common sense it seems not possible that a person who claim to be "City of Knowledge" doesn't even have the basics of knowledge = how to read/write! Thus non-Bohras dogmas are unintelligent and erroneous, where else dogmas of Bohras are in line with Quran, Hadith and appeals to intelligence.
This is a patently false assumption in my opinion.
What is more perplexing is that it seems to have formed a basis for a religious dogma (bohra dogma).

My personal take is that knowledge and literacy are not correlated.Literacy as we know is just the ability to read and write. It can only help you take care of your day to day tasks and that's it. Whereas knowledge is a repository of wisdom, experiences etc. It is a much broader concept.

What I am trying to convey is that an individual may be literate but may not be knowledgeable. Conversely, an individual can be knowledgeable without being a literate as that is not the only way to become knowledgeable.
Knowledge can also be acquired simply by way of interactions/conversations, exploring etc. One can also be knowledgeable solely due to one's God given intellect. Literacy plays no role here.
Therefore, being a literate is not a precondition for being knowledgeable which in turn implies that an illiterate person can well be knowledgeable.
So just as it is wrongly assumed that the Prophet (pbuh) was literate as he was "City of Knowledge" , it can well be assumed also that he was indeed "City Of Knowledge" without having to be a literate himself.
Munira_RV wrote: Act of Mohamed PBUH is the Sunnat. One should do as Mohamed PBUH did. As both Sunni and Ithna Asheri believes Mohamed PBUH was illiterate so, they too act on this sunnat, they should too remain illiterate.

Whether people are literate or illiterate is something which is also governed by a lot of other factors. For example, if one is illiterate due to financial or other unavoidable circumstances , would you accuse him of not following the Sunnah?
Quran, Sura Nisa, verse 113: But for the Grace of God to thee and his Mercy, a party of them would certainly have plotted to lead thee astray. But (in fact) they will only Lead their own souls astray, and to thee they can do no harm in the least. For God hath sent down to thee the Book and wisdom and taught thee what thou Knewest not (before): And great is the Grace of God unto thee. This verse proves non-Bohras contentions as erroneous.

Some similar other verses besides Nisa:113 are:
(1) Surah Jinn (72): 26-27,
(2) Surah Naml, 27:16;
(3) Surah Yusuf, 12:68;
(4) Surah Yusuf, 12:96;
(5) Surah Qasas, 28:14.
(6) Surah Baqarah, 2: 251

=> Re-read Quranic text in red above. It conveys Allah bestowed all knowledge to Mohamed PBUH (with by default implied exceptions of knowledge that is prerogative of Allah alone). The knowledge of reading/writing text in Arabic is not reserved only for Allah - it is open for all. Sura Nisa: 113 and six above verses categorically implies Mohamed PBUH knew reading/writing.

If one don't believe in commands of Quran and want to stick with fake hadith - they all are free to practice their Sunni/Ithna Asheri madhab. Dawoodi Bohras will loyally obey commands of Quran.



Munira_RV
Posts: 157
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:38 pm

#11

Unread post by Munira_RV » Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:59 am

anajmi wrote: Allah has revealed a book describing himself. Has your Imam revealed any book describing himself?
Yes, like Mohamed PBUH revealed verses and they were penned by 'kaatib-a-wahi' = Quran, in the same manner Syyedna Imam Moiz (A) revealed knowledge and that was penned by Syyedi Qazi Noman = Daimul Islam.

If you wish to discuss on this line further open another thread and I will try to respond you there. As you and alike have succumbed to the revelation made in the original post, so to save your loosing face do not derail this thread.



maethist
Posts: 152
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 3:28 pm

#12

Unread post by maethist » Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:19 am

Munira_RV wrote: Quran, Sura Nisa, verse 113: But for the Grace of God ........sent down to thee the Book and wisdom and taught thee what thou Knewest not (before):
Inserting '(before)' in the above translation is an unjustified interpretation and comment. It is best to translate accurately first and then interpret.

How can we be sure that what Prophet was taught refers to his literacy? Was he illiterate before the Book was sent down to him?

No conclusion about Prophet's literacy can be made from this redundant addition of 'before' in the translation.



Munira_RV
Posts: 157
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:38 pm

#13

Unread post by Munira_RV » Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:30 am

maethist wrote:
Munira_RV wrote: Quran, Sura Nisa, verse 113: But for the Grace of God ........sent down to thee the Book and wisdom and taught thee what thou Knewest not (before):
Inserting '(before)' in the above translation is an unjustified interpretation and comment. It is best to translate accurately first and then interpret.

How can we be sure that what Prophet was taught refers to his literacy? Was he illiterate before the Book was sent down to him?

No conclusion about Prophet's literacy can be made from this redundant addition of 'before' in the translation.
Generally speaking, Abdullah Yusuf Ali sahib knew better Arabic/English translation than me and you. His Quran translation in english, was recognised as official Quran translation in the Indian court of law by the then British Government. Such honour and recognition of Quran translation is not with you, nor with me.

"(Before)" in the parenthesis was inserted by Abdullah Yusuf Ali. And not by me.



maethist
Posts: 152
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 3:28 pm

#14

Unread post by maethist » Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:43 am

It does not matter who inserted the comment. It has not been justified. I am addressing the issue of Prophet's literacy. Since this is a dubious translation, even if British Indians accepted it, one cannot bring it to claim Prophet's literacy.



Munira_RV
Posts: 157
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:38 pm

#15

Unread post by Munira_RV » Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:12 pm

ghulam muhammed wrote:Allah Says in the Holy Quran Chapter 7 Surah Aaraf verses 157-158:

157 "Those who follow the Messenger, the ‘Ummi’ (unlettered) Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (Scriptures); in the Law and the Gospel; for he commands them what is just and forbids them what is evil: he allows them as lawful what is good (and pure) and prohibits them from what is bad (and impure); He releases them from their heavy burdens and from the yokes that are upon them. So it is those who believe in him honor him help him and follow the light which is sent down with him it is they who will prosper."

158 Say: "O men! I am sent unto you all as the Messenger of Allah to Whom belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth: there is no god but He: it is He that giveth both life and death. So believe in Allah and His Messenger, the ‘Ummi’ (unlettered) Prophet who believed in Allah and His Words: follow him that (so) ye may be guided."


The literal meaning of the Arabic term ‘Ummi’ when applied to an individual, means one who is illiterate and cannot read or write.

Allah Says in the Holy Quran Chapter 62 Surah Jumuaa verse 2:

2 It is He Who has sent amongst the ‘Ummi’ (unlettered) a Messenger from among themselves, to rehearse to them His Signs, to sanctify them, and to instruct them in Scripture and Wisdom; although they had been before in manifest error


But when the Quran uses the term ‘Ummi’ for a people or a nation, it refers to the Arabs of that time, who were considered to be ignorant about Divine Scriptures in comparison to the People of the Book who had a longer tradition of learning the Divine Scriptures. The Jews especially were extremely proud of their heritage of the Prophets who were sent to them, and their Divine Scriptures, and their learning, that they normally used this term ‘Ummi’ as a derogatory term to mean a ‘Gentile’: anyone who was not a Jew.

In light of the Quran and the Sunnah, there is absolutely no doubt and it is absolutely true that our beloved and Noble Last and Final Messenger of Allah, the one who was sent as a Mercy and a Guide to all mankind until the end of time, the one whose knowledge, wisdom, and intelligence surpasses any man who ever walked on this planet earth, Mohamed ar-Rasool Allah (saws) was indeed ‘illeterate’: meaning, he (saws) could not read or write!

Today, when one hears the term ‘illiterate’, they try to understand the term with its currently used connotation; because it is obvious that if one is illiterate, he neither knows how to read or write, and thus cannot derive any knowledge from the volumes of books which are the only available sources of millenniums of humanly acquired knowledge.

Some believers, who sincerely love and respect the Messenger of Allah (saws) find it difficult to comprehend that how can this most remarkable teacher of teachers be ‘illiterate’? How can this man, who was sent as a leader to all mankind, be illiterate? How can this man, who is the ‘imam’ of all the Prophets, be illiterate? How can this man, who cannot even read and write, dictate a Book which is to be the source of Guidance for all mankind until the end of time???

They just cannot fathom and comprehend this fact; so they, in their genuine love and respect for the Prophet of Allah (saws), deny that he (saws) was illiterate!!!

Most scholars and teachers learn their knowledge through years and years of study from the collection of written material made available to them. The fact that this illiterate man from the desert, whom the people knew for 40 years , suddenly comes out one day with the blazing and eloquent poetry of a Book the like of the Quran is in itself a miracle, and a proof that indeed he (saws) was directly guided by Allah, The Lord of the Worlds! Thus instead of being ashamed or thinking that this belittles the elevated and supreme status and position of our noble Prophet (saws); we should realize that this very fact that no man was/is/or will ever be able to produce wisdom and literature of the like of the Glorious Quran, is in itself the biggest proof that he (saws) was indeed the chosen and appointed Prophet of Allah, and the words of the Quran could not be the work of a man; but rather they are the very Words of the Lord of the Worlds!

When the disbelievers saw that a man who spent 40 long years amongst them, whom they knew could not read or write, suddenly comes out one day and starts reciting the like of the Quran, and declares himself to be the chosen Prophet of Allah (saws), they called him every imaginable name they could think of! The called him a liar even though they knew that for 40 years he never spoke a lie; a sooth-sayer even though they knew he never was, a madman when he was the sanest man in the universe, one who is possessed, a poet, etc.! These disbelievers just could not fathom that a man who could put the best poets of Arabia to shame, was indeed what he (saws) claimed to be: The Chosen Prophet of Allah.

But the people who were not proud, whose hearts were open to Guidance, who knew and recognized him (saws) as the Truthful, who realized and recognized the Words of the Quran could not be the work of a mere human being; believed in the claim of this noble and illiterate man from the deserts of Arabia: that he (saws) was indeed the Prophet of Allah Subhanah!

Allah says in the Holy Quran Chapter 29 Surah Ankaboot verse 48:

(O Prophet), you did not read any book before this, nor did you write any with your hand. If it were so, the worshippers of falsehood could have been involved in doubt.


And the single biggest evidence that the Prophet (saws) was indeed unable to read and write, are the very words of Allah Subhanah in His Glorious Quran in the above Aayah of Surah Ankaboot verse 48! Allah Subhanah clearly declares that never did Prophet Mohamed (saws) ever read any book before this, nor did he (saws) ever write any! And the wisdom for keeping the Prophet illiterate is given in the very next sentence of the same Aayah: “If it were so, the worshippers of falsehood could have been involved in doubt!”

Because if indeed the Prophet (saws), who lived 40 long years amongst his people, could read and write…then the unbelievers could easily claim that he (saws) had read the previous Scriptures or had conjured up this Glorious Book himself! But Allah Subhanah, in His Divine and Absolute Wisdom did not even want this window of doubt to be left open to the disbelievers! The disbelievers who heard the noble words of the Quran, knew that this could not be the work of a mere man…but in their pride and arrogance, just did not want to comprehend how can this simple, illiterate, orphan desert Arab could be chosen as a Prophet above all the other people of the land!

But the Lord does whatever He Wills! And to prove that Mohamed (saws) was indeed the Chosen Prophet of Allah, and to prove that the Noble Quran was indeed the Words of the All-Mighty Lord, Allah Subhanah challenged the disbelievers to all get together and produce the like of the Quran! Nay: produce ten Surahs like it! Nay: produce even only one Surah like it; if indeed they were in any doubt that such a Book as the Quran could be produced by a mere mortal!!!

In light of the Quran and the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allah (saws), there is absolutely no doubt and it is absolutely true that our noble and beloved Prophet (saws) could neither read nor write; but Allah is our witness, no man who ever walked on this planet earth had more wisdom, or more knowledge, or more understanding, or more intelligence than this Noble and Truthful orphan from the desert of Arabia, the Last and Final Messenger of Allah, Mohamed ar-Rasool Allah (saws)!

http://www.islamhelpline.net/qa/prophet ... ummi-quran

Dear Golam Mohamed,

GM's argument - bone of contention -
(1) Sura Aaraf: 157 & 158,
(2) Sura Ankaboot: 48
In both above verses - Mohamed PBUH is referred by GM as illiterate. Lets assume he is correct.

Munira's argument - bone of contention -
Sura Nisa: 113 (Allah says: Allah taught thee (Mohamed) what thou Knewest not).

=> Check timeline: Both Sura Aaraf and Ankaboot were revealed in Mecca (revealed earlier in time). Where else Sura Nisa was revealed in Medina (revealed later in time). Hence, in Mecca he may not be knowing reading/writing. But the latest status of Mohamed PBUH after revelation of Sura Nisa is: Prophet Mohamed PBUH knew all faculties of knowledge including reading/writing any language, (with by default implied exceptions of knowledge that is prerogative to Allah alone - example knowledge of date/time of Qayamat, etc).



anajmi
Posts: 13402
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#16

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:56 pm

And by the way, when Syedna Qazi Noman was writing Daimul Islam, Imam Moiz wasn't hiding and Qazi Noman wasn't receiving wahi.



Munira_RV
Posts: 157
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:38 pm

#17

Unread post by Munira_RV » Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:36 pm

Munira_RV wrote: Dear Golam Mohamed,

GM's argument - bone of contention -
(1) Sura Aaraf: 157 & 158,
(2) Sura Ankaboot: 48
In both above verses - Mohamed PBUH is referred by GM as illiterate. Lets assume he is correct.

Munira's argument - bone of contention -
Sura Nisa: 113 (Allah says: Allah taught thee (Mohamed) what thou Knewest not).

=> Check timeline: Both Sura Aaraf and Ankaboot were revealed in Mecca (revealed earlier in time). Where else Sura Nisa was revealed in Medina (revealed later in time). Hence, in Mecca he may not be knowing reading/writing. But the latest status of Mohamed PBUH after revelation of Sura Nisa is: Prophet Mohamed PBUH knew all faculties of knowledge including reading/writing any language, (with by default implied exceptions of knowledge that is prerogative to Allah alone - example knowledge of date/time of Qayamat, etc).
Golam Mohamed bhai,

Besides checking above timeline, also kindly note: Both Bukhari and Muslim have reported: "On death bed, Mohamed PBUH asked: I write for you a document (by following which) you would never go astray. Umar said: Allah's Messenger PBUH is "talking nonsense"; obviously, the Prophet was not unconscious since he was speaking."

Sunni's consider Bukhar and Muslim hadith to be most authentic - so per both of them Mohamed PBUH said, "I write for you a document by following which you would never go astray." Hence, Sunni's own authentic book claims that Mohamed PBUH can write/read.
Last edited by Munira_RV on Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.



maethist
Posts: 152
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 3:28 pm

#18

Unread post by maethist » Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:41 pm

Munira_RV wrote: Besides checking above timeline, also kindly note: Both Bukhari and Muslim have reported: On death bed, Mohamed PBUH asked: I write for you a document (by following which) you would never go astray. Umar said: Allah's Messenger PBUH is "talking nonsense"; obviously, the Prophet was not unconscious since he was speaking.

Sunni's consider Bukhar and Muslim hadith to be most authentic - so per them Mohamed PBUH said, "I write for you a document by following which you would never go astray." Hence, Sunni's own authentic book claims that Mohamed PBUH can write/read.
Yes, this is a much better argument in support of Prophet's literacy. It appears to be unambiguous.



anajmi
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#19

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Oct 01, 2014 2:32 pm

Actually, the hadith doesn't support his literacy. Since, he didn't actually write anything down. He asked for a paper to write, but since people knew he couldn't actually write, they thought he was out of his mind.



maethist
Posts: 152
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#20

Unread post by maethist » Wed Oct 01, 2014 2:39 pm

anajmi wrote:Actually, the hadith doesn't support his literacy. Since, he didn't actually write anything down. He asked for a paper to write, but since people knew he couldn't actually write, they thought he was out of his mind.
Don't you think he was also out of his mind when he said he saw an angel?



anajmi
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#21

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:39 pm

No, because he wasn't on his death bed and people knew he could see. Besides, there were people who thought he was out of his mind. Many were converted once he produced the evidence in the form of the Quran.



truth seeker100
Posts: 165
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 5:54 pm

#22

Unread post by truth seeker100 » Wed Oct 01, 2014 4:59 pm

Munira_RV wrote:
truth seeker100 wrote:munira bohra is a truly stupid sect. you believe in an imam uz zaman that hasn't shown his face in 300 years. in fact everything you called non bohras is what bohras are. stupid and irrational. if you truly believe in your stupid dai concept than you are stupid.believing in your fairy tail fatemi beliefs is stupid. bohras are not even proper muslims. believing wether or not the prophet was literate or not has nothing to do with our salvation. and about you im playing that bohras are the only sect to go to heaven!!! hahahaha. bohras would be the last sect to go to heaven, seeing that you guys are more hindu then muslim.
1. Allah too is "ghayab" and has not revealed his face to commoners since past 300 years and beyond. So with your intelligent logic, you should stop believing in Allah.

2. In court of Mughal King Akbar at the venue of 'Ibadat Khana' in Fatehpur Sikri - in the debate all Sunni's and Ithna Asheri scholars were defeated by the Bohra Dai. Emperor Akbar offered Bohra Dai to join his court, but latter politely didn't accept. The Royal Decree issued by Emperor Akbar in favour of Bohra Dai was written with Gold Ink, and such honour was bestowed to NONE of the religion leaders of Sunni's and Ithna Asheri!!! [Reference from book: 'Aqd Al Jawahir Fi Ahwaal Al Bawahir' by Sunni historian Molana Sayyed Abu Zafar Nadwi sahib].

3. All important inventions in the Golden period of Islam was commissioned/invented by Fatimi Imams like: Fountain pen, modern concept of University, pin hole camera (mother of all modern day camera), optical science, medicine, chemistry... Where else Sunni's Abbasi caliph only copy/pasted Greek and Indian science into Arabic and promoted & bundled as development of Islamic knowledge = bigotry.

4. When your fellow community member take out "taziya" procession to celebrate victory of Yazeed and murder of our leader Imam Hussain (A) - in that taziya procession - your all fellows make structure of paper, aluminium, bamboo, decorate it with lights and other material - then they offer coconut to that structure!!! They hang phool-maala (garland) over the 'taziya' and fit lemon on top of spears, then they will light scent sticks and will seek blessings from that 'taziya'!!! This is indeed way of Hindu's.
if anybody is hindu its your bohra sect. kissing hands and feet of your dai. doing moore I pooja of your dai, you call that islamic practices??? dancing in circles while doing maatam and making a tamasha out of moharam you call that islamic??? and just because a bohra dai defeated a sunni and Shia in debate does not mean that suddenly bohra religion is wrong, let's say tomorrow a christian defeats a muslim in a debate doese not mean that suddenly christianity is the true religion. and about your inventions thingy, even the jews have come up with many important inventions, heck even the muslims have many important inventions, they developed algebra, so see your logic is flawed just like your fake fatemi beliefs.
and on your dumb theory about comparing allah to your fake imam, here is something I found

Yes, it is an article of faith for muslims to believe in the unseen. We believe in Allah in the unseen. We believe in the Day of Qiyamah in the unseen. We believe in the angles in the unseen. We believe in the ‘jinns’ in the unseen. We believe in the Gardens of Paradise in the unseen. We believe in the fire of Hell in the unseen. It is an article of faith for every muslim to believe in the unseen; but the condition is that we only believe in the unseen if stated to us by Allah Himself in the Holy Quran, or through the words of the Messenger of Allah (saws)! If the unseen is not from these two sources, then we are not to believe in it at all. I request you to produce even one aayah from the Quran stating that we have to believe in the Imam-uz-Zamaan in the seen, leave alone the unseen. Can you imagine the chaos in the Ummah of Islam, if every person started dreaming up his own version of the ‘unseen’?
Last edited by truth seeker100 on Wed Oct 01, 2014 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.



truth seeker100
Posts: 165
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#23

Unread post by truth seeker100 » Wed Oct 01, 2014 5:01 pm

Munira_RV wrote:
Ummul Bani wrote: This is a patently false assumption in my opinion.
What is more perplexing is that it seems to have formed a basis for a religious dogma (bohra dogma).

My personal take is that knowledge and literacy are not correlated.Literacy as we know is just the ability to read and write. It can only help you take care of your day to day tasks and that's it. Whereas knowledge is a repository of wisdom, experiences etc. It is a much broader concept.

What I am trying to convey is that an individual may be literate but may not be knowledgeable. Conversely, an individual can be knowledgeable without being a literate as that is not the only way to become knowledgeable.
Knowledge can also be acquired simply by way of interactions/conversations, exploring etc. One can also be knowledgeable solely due to one's God given intellect. Literacy plays no role here.
Therefore, being a literate is not a precondition for being knowledgeable which in turn implies that an illiterate person can well be knowledgeable.
So just as it is wrongly assumed that the Prophet (pbuh) was literate as he was "City of Knowledge" , it can well be assumed also that he was indeed "City Of Knowledge" without having to be a literate himself.

Whether people are literate or illiterate is something which is also governed by a lot of other factors. For example, if one is illiterate due to financial or other unavoidable circumstances , would you accuse him of not following the Sunnah?
hahahahahahahaha :mrgreen: you are so stupid to think bohras follow the quran?!?!?! hahahaha you have truely lost it if you think kissing the feet of the dai and giving sajda to the dai is obeying the quran!!!

Quran, Sura Nisa, verse 113: But for the Grace of God to thee and his Mercy, a party of them would certainly have plotted to lead thee astray. But (in fact) they will only Lead their own souls astray, and to thee they can do no harm in the least. For God hath sent down to thee the Book and wisdom and taught thee what thou Knewest not (before): And great is the Grace of God unto thee. This verse proves non-Bohras contentions as erroneous.

Some similar other verses besides Nisa:113 are:
(1) Surah Jinn (72): 26-27,
(2) Surah Naml, 27:16;
(3) Surah Yusuf, 12:68;
(4) Surah Yusuf, 12:96;
(5) Surah Qasas, 28:14.
(6) Surah Baqarah, 2: 251

=> Re-read Quranic text in red above. It conveys Allah bestowed all knowledge to Mohamed PBUH (with by default implied exceptions of knowledge that is prerogative of Allah alone). The knowledge of reading/writing text in Arabic is not reserved only for Allah - it is open for all. Sura Nisa: 113 and six above verses categorically implies Mohamed PBUH knew reading/writing.

If one don't believe in commands of Quran and want to stick with fake hadith - they all are free to practice their Sunni/Ithna Asheri madhab. Dawoodi Bohras will loyally obey commands of Quran.



truth seeker100
Posts: 165
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#24

Unread post by truth seeker100 » Wed Oct 01, 2014 5:20 pm

The story of the 21st imam of the Dawoodi Bohras is as follows: When the Fatimid Dynasty came to an end, the 21st imam in succession, Imam Tayyeb was only four years old. His political enemies were determined to kill him, and thus Imam Tayyeb was escorted by his paternal uncle into hiding, to save the imam’s life from his enemies. Then, somehow, a lady by the name of Hurratul-Maleka was apparently given the supposed powers by the imam and she apparently chose the first Dai as Syedna Zoeb.
The Dawoodi Bohras claim that the imam or descendants of the imam are alive and on the earth today and they correspond with the current Dai through ‘ilham’, which means dreams in Arabic. This system of succession and the correspondence with the Dai is never discussed openly, and left to the whims, fancies and imaginations of the leaders of the hierarchy. And Allah Alone knows best the truth (if there is any) behind all this fantasy!!
Even if we were to believe in this fantastic story, that an imam is alive on this planet earth and corresponds with the Syedna by ‘ilhaam’, a few logical explanations remain unanswered: Where is the Imam today? Is he alone living somewhere, or does he too have a following like the Syedna? If he has a following in today’s world, we would definitely know it, as they would be similar in belief and actions to the Dawoodi Bohras. Wouldn’t they? Why is he still in seclusion? Why does he not come out and proclaim himself? There is no apparent threat to his life or belief today. We are made to believe that the Imam and Syedna correspond to each other by ‘ilhaam’, whereby the Imam comes in the Syedna’s dreams. Has Allah indeed given any man the power to come in another’s dream at will and correspond with him? Allah did not even give this kind of powers to His appointed Messengers!!
Is it the same 4 year old Imam Tayyeb alive today after these hundreds of years, or is it his descendants? Today we live in a secular and non-Godly world. There would absolutely be no harm to the Imam’s life or mission if he were to reveal himself to mankind today (if there is indeed one to be revealed!). How come the leadership never mention anything about the Imam, except his name? And the most important question of all…. If this concept of the appointment of the Imam is so important and pivotal to Islam and its survival, how come nothing (absolutely nothing) has been mentioned about it in the Holy Quran? How come the Messenger of Allah (saws) never mentioned anything about this Imam and his seclusion? Did Allah and His Messenger (saws) forget to tell us about this very important aspect of Islam and its survival?
Glory be to Allah! Allah and His Messenger (saws) did not forget anything that was needed for our guidance to Islam. If something is not from the Quran and Sunnah, then it does not form part of Islam… and there is absolutely nothing in either the Holy Quran or the Sunnah about the Imam, his seclusion, about the Dais, about their succession, about their superiority, about their correspondence through ‘ilham’, about …!!!! These are their wishful fantasies and their whims, which have absolutely no basis in the deen of Islam! Can you imagine the deen of Islam being based on these kind of stories….. My dear brothers and sisters, this Islam is the deen of Truth from Allah Subhanah and based on nothing but the Truth. …. Not some mythology story of a four year old boy hiding in seclusion for approximately 800 years and having the power to correspond with the Syedna by coming in his dreams at will!!! Nothing in Islam is illogical, and this fantastic story of the Imam and the Dai does not have an iota of logic around it!!!!



Ummul Bani
Posts: 104
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#25

Unread post by Ummul Bani » Wed Oct 01, 2014 5:46 pm

Dear Munira_RV,

Let's assume for a moment that the Prophet was literate.

The intention of your original post as I understand, is not to prove his literacy or illiteracy. It is to rather prove that the bohras' dogma is the only one that is in line with the Quran teaching and sunnah and that the rest of the dogmas are erroneous.

According to you, the bohra doctrine states that the Prophet (pbuh) was literate.
The Qur'an verses ( quoted above by you) also prove that the Prophet was literate. Now, since both are in agreement with each other, it can be concluded that the bohra doctrine is the correct one.

On the other hand, the non bohras' doctrine states that he was illiterate and since this is not in agreement with the Qur'an ( as the verses prove that he was literate) it can be concluded that their dogmas are false.

All the above is from the original post.

Now my point is, we do have bohras who are illiterate too. So would that mean they are not following the Prophet?

Additionally, we do have non bohras who are literate. Then that would actually mean that they are following the bohra doctrine!

The point is, being literate or illiterate has also got to do with many other factors. For example, when you encounter an illiterate person, you are more likely to assume that he is illiterate due to financial constraints than to assume that he is simply following the Sunnah. May be that is not an assumption but a fact. So how is this related to the Sunnah?

Conversely, how many literate and educated bohras attribute their education to the Prophet? They simply get educated out of personal choice and not because its a sunnah. Therefore it cannot be said for sure that the bohras are literate because the Prophet was literate.


I have attempted to be as concise and lucid as possible.
I think I am done with this discussion.



ghulam muhammed
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#26

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Wed Oct 01, 2014 6:08 pm

Ummul Bani wrote:According to you, the bohra doctrine states that the Prophet (pbuh) was literate.
According to Bohra doctrine there is a concept of "Rebirth" too !!



maethist
Posts: 152
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 3:28 pm

#27

Unread post by maethist » Wed Oct 01, 2014 6:38 pm

Ummul Bani wrote: silly post purged :roll:
What has Prophet's literacy got to do with his Sunnah?

Did Prophet set about being an example of literacy or illiteracy? On the contrary, he advised learning.



truth seeker100
Posts: 165
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 5:54 pm

#28

Unread post by truth seeker100 » Thu Oct 02, 2014 8:53 am

and suddenly these bohra abdes have no answer!!!! where are you hiding munira???? what are you going to try now in order to prove your fake fatemi beliefs



SBM
Posts: 6189
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#29

Unread post by SBM » Thu Oct 02, 2014 9:05 am

Munira RV
If according to Dawoodi Bohra Dogma Prophet was literate and that is true Dogma then why SMS is asking his flocks to stay home while SKQ is asking his flocks to learn, As a matter of fact SKQ and his family is the most literate and thus follow the Sunnah of the Prophet while SMS and his flocks are getting FAKE Ph D and follow the Non Bohra Dogma.
So with this logic SKQ is the true follower of Sunnah and Ahle Bayt while SMS and his followers are all others and non the followers of Sunnah and Ahl e Bayt :mrgreen:
So then who is the true Dai



Munira_RV
Posts: 157
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:38 pm

#30

Unread post by Munira_RV » Thu Oct 02, 2014 12:55 pm

anajmi wrote:Actually, the hadith doesn't support his literacy. Since, he didn't actually write anything down. He asked for a paper to write, but since people knew he couldn't actually write, they thought he was out of his mind.
1. Prophet Mohamed PBUH says and do only as Allah wants him to say and do.

2. When Prophet Mohamed PBUH ask for pen and tablet to write: Sunni's leader Hz. Umar and alike at the death-bed of Mohamed PBUH, and Sunni's in general in current time believes that Prophet Mohamed PBUH is speaking lies as he can't write and still asking for pen to write or he has gone out of mind (gone lunatic/mad)!!! Mazallah.

Shame, shame!!! What degraded level of respect all above have for Prophet of Islam PBUH?!!!

Remember: Hz. Umar act/stand above was reported by Muslim in his Sahih. And similar tradition was reported by Bukhari in his Sahih.

Any human with sanity who have faith in religion of Islam in his common sense will disagree with Hz. Umar and Sunni's stand on Prophet PBUH that - Mohamed PBUH is speaking lie that he will write something or has gone mad/out of mind! Mazallah.

(Case - A) Sunni dogma in reference to above case = Prophet Mohamed PBUH on hid death-bed gone lunatic/out of mind.

(Case - B) Dawoodi Bohras dogma: Words of Mohamed PBUH are words of Allah. If Mohamed PBUH asked for pen and tablet to write then he is neither speaking lies nor is he gone lunatic. The matter of fact is: for 40 of his 63 years of life Mohamed PBUH didn't do any Islamic preaching, just impressed commoner that I speak only truth and do not lie. People referred him as "Saadiq". To a group of people Mohamed PBUH said if I tell your enemy is at other side of mountain will you believe me? Yes, they replied. If you went to mountain-top and couldn't see your enemies then what? They replied, "We will conclude our eyes are gone sick but Mohamed PBUH cannot lie."

Those who have love for Mohamed PBUH are free to choose from case A or B above.
Last edited by Munira_RV on Thu Oct 02, 2014 1:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.