Bohras on hadith of: Mohamed PBUH is city of knowledge

If you have questions or want to share knowledge about Dawoodi Bohra religions and rituals please post them here. Any discussion outside the framework of Dawoodi Bohra beliefs and tradition is not allowed. This forum is primarily for sharing of information and knowledge.
anajmi
Posts: 13403
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Bohras on hadith of: Mohamed PBUH is city of knowledge

#61

Unread post by anajmi » Sun Oct 19, 2014 11:44 pm

I conclude that, as far as we know, there is no evidence either for or against Prophet's literacy.
Actually, the lack of evidence about a person's literacy would automatically mean the person is illiterate. You cannot have evidence demonstrating illiteracy. I am sure you are literate enough to know that. That is why people need degrees to prove their literacy. And the lack of one suggests illiteracy. Nothing prevents a person with a degree from being stupid though.

maethist
Posts: 152
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 3:28 pm

Re: Bohras on hadith of: Mohamed PBUH is city of knowledge

#62

Unread post by maethist » Mon Oct 20, 2014 12:25 pm

anajmi wrote:
I conclude that, as far as we know, there is no evidence either for or against Prophet's literacy.
Actually, the lack of evidence about a person's literacy would automatically mean the person is illiterate. You cannot have evidence demonstrating illiteracy.
:lol: :lol:
'Lack of evidence about a person's literacy' means that there is 'NO EVIDENCE ABOUT THAT PERSON'S LITERACY'. No more and no less.

Let me end this conversation by returning the compliment that you gave me earlier in the "In defence of the silent majority" thread.

Moron!

By the way, if a person does not feign 'illiteracy' and is otherwise 'sound of mind', present him with a written message that might betray his feelings, like "Your beloved son has just been killed in an accident" or "You are about to be shot" . No reaction would demonstrate illiteracy. Not 100%, I grant you.

anajmi
Posts: 13403
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Bohras on hadith of: Mohamed PBUH is city of knowledge

#63

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:15 pm

'Lack of evidence about a person's literacy' means that there is 'NO EVIDENCE ABOUT THAT PERSON'S LITERACY'. No more and no less.
I can work with that. There is no evidence of the prophet's literacy. We can close this case with that note.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Bohras on hadith of: Mohamed PBUH is city of knowledge

#64

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:35 pm

I came across an excerpt from an article which is relevant to the thread :-

In his last days the Rasool wanted to write down a decree to save Muslims from straying. But the Number Two (Hazrat Umar) barred him stating, Innarrajul liyahjur (This man is talking delirious). Hasbuna Kitabullah (Allah’s Book is sufficient for us.) (Muslim, Masnad Ahmad bin Hanbal etc)

[These very books claim that the companions were not present with the Rasool at the time of his death. Then, they also say that after this so-called Paper Episode, the Prophet lived three more days. Could he not write down the decree later? Could he not give verbal command for others to write? Why would he leave this Paper pending till the last days of his 22 plus years old Mission as the Prophet?]

maethist
Posts: 152
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 3:28 pm

Re: Bohras on hadith of: Mohamed PBUH is city of knowledge

#65

Unread post by maethist » Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:46 am

ghulam muhammed wrote:I came across an excerpt from an article which is relevant to the thread :-

In his last days the Rasool wanted to write down a decree to save Muslims from straying. But the Number Two (Hazrat Umar) barred him stating, Innarrajul liyahjur (This man is talking delirious). Hasbuna Kitabullah (Allah’s Book is sufficient for us.) (Muslim, Masnad Ahmad bin Hanbal etc)

[These very books claim that the companions were not present with the Rasool at the time of his death. Then, they also say that after this so-called Paper Episode, the Prophet lived three more days. Could he not write down the decree later? Could he not give verbal command for others to write? Why would he leave this Paper pending till the last days of his 22 plus years old Mission as the Prophet?]
May be, 'the man was talking delirious' from the time Umar noticed it until his death. :lol:

Seriously, when citing hadith, please indicate precise reference like chapter/verse number so that your readers do not have to search for it. That is only courteous.

First you say 'the paper episode' is in Hanbal's masnad. Then you term it the 'so-called paper episode' and declare Prophet lived 3 more days after the episode without any reference. No. 'They say' is not satisfactory. Please provide a proper reference.

"Why he did not give verbal command to write or why he waited 22 years and what was supposed to be the writing about etc.?" are speculations that need not concern us, the non-scholars, here. Although, if you have arrived at a researched conclusion, please share it with us.

Munira_RV
Posts: 157
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:38 pm

Re: Bohras on hadith of: Mohamed PBUH is city of knowledge

#66

Unread post by Munira_RV » Wed Nov 05, 2014 12:34 pm

Dear Golam Mohamed - baat samaz me aai ya nahi?

GM's argument - bone of contention -
(1) Sura Aaraf: 157 & 158,
(2) Sura Ankaboot: 48
In both above verses - Mohamed PBUH is referred by GM as illiterate. Lets assume he is correct.

Munira's argument - bone of contention -
Sura Nisa: 113 (Allah says: Allah taught thee (Mohamed) what thou Knewest not).

=> Check timeline: Both Sura Aaraf and Ankaboot were revealed in Mecca (revealed earlier in time). Where else Sura Nisa was revealed in Medina (revealed later in time). Hence, in Mecca he may not be knowing reading/writing. But the latest status of Mohamed PBUH after revelation of Sura Nisa is: Prophet Mohamed PBUH knew all faculties of knowledge including reading/writing any language, (with by default implied exceptions of knowledge that is prerogative to Allah alone - example knowledge of date/time of Qayamat, etc).