21 imam has appointed other imam? confused

[anajmi]

No, just against common sense which you seem to lack, just like the rest of the abdes.

Equating deputizing with a Imam hiding for a thousand years is a bit of a stretch even for someone with half a brain. Hey, maybe if we wait a few more millennia, the hiding Imam will evolve into a Dai?

[anajmi]

But don't wait too long or you may devolve into maethist.

[fayyaaz]

No, just against common sense which you seem to lack, just like the rest of the abdes.

Equating deputizing with a Imam hiding for a thousand years is a bit of a stretch even for someone with half a brain. Hey, maybe if we wait a few more millennia, the hiding Imam will evolve into a Dai?

That is OK. All religions are a bit of a stretch for common sense. Did you not learn that in the Evolution/Creationism debate?

That is one characteristic of religion. You must suspend your common sense to partake in it. Otherwise, if people had common sense, who would believe in an Elephant-headed God?

[SBM]

But don't wait too long or you may devolve into maethist.

And then reappear as Fayyaz

[fayyaaz]

But don't wait too long or you may devolve into maethist.

And then reappear as Fayyaz

maethist was a man after my own heart. I will adopt all his views.

[anajmi]

That is OK. All religions are a bit of a stretch for common sense. Did you not learn that in the Evolution/Creationism debate?

Not as much as evolution though. You did run from that debate didn't you?

Otherwise, if people had common sense, who would believe in an Elephant-headed God?

Thankfully, just like hidden Imams, no elephant-headed gods in the Quran.

[anajmi]

maethist was a man after my own heart. I will adopt all his views.

maethist was a coward. That is why he chose to come back in a different form. Hopefully, he still has a human head.

[fayyaaz]

maethist was a man after my own heart. I will adopt all his views.

maethist was a coward. That is why he chose to come back in a different form. Hopefully, he still has a human head.

Have you found fayyaaz in his new incarnation to be a coward like maethist? No? In that case, the new incarnation must have been sprinkled with anajmi dust. Now we have a new invigorated maethist-anajmi amalgam.

[fayyaaz]

That is OK. All religions are a bit of a stretch for common sense. Did you not learn that in the Evolution/Creationism debate?

Not as much as evolution though. You did run from that debate didn't you?

I sent you a pm about it and also posted it here but that post was deleted.

I ran away from that debate because I considered you lacking in a High School education in both Science and Evolution. I do not wish to have a kindergartenish debate on that subject.

Better stick to Quran and perfidies of the Bohra Dai as you claim expertise on those subjects.

[WiththenameofAllah]

Brother anjami, you mean that leadership or following a dai Are as per Quran ? But here dai himself is the reason for shirk. Haroon ( A.S) brother of Musa A.S was not the reason for shirk ! He was guiding people only to God.In this case are we allowed to follow such a dai or leadership.
Would really like to have more knowledge on this topic.
JazakAllah khair.

[anajmi]

I ran away from that debate because I considered you lacking in a High School education in both Science and Evolution. I do not wish to have a kindergartenish debate on that subject.

You ran from that debate cause you got your butt kicked. You contradicted yourself within the first three posts and then ran and are now making excuses like your previous avataar. Fortunately, we won't be dealing with this avataar much longer too. Cause, remember, evolution is just a theory.

[fayyaaz]

I ran away from that debate because I considered you lacking in a High School education in both Science and Evolution. I do not wish to have a kindergartenish debate on that subject.

You ran from that debate cause you got your butt kicked. You contradicted yourself within the first three posts and then ran and are now making excuses like your previous avataar. Fortunately, we won't be dealing with this avataar much longer too. Cause, remember, evolution is just a theory.

I checked and could not find a contradiction in the first 3 posts. Evolutionists apply theory only to living matter. You asked who made the rule. Well, the theorists did. That is the rule which says that the 'theory applies only to living things'.

You said you thought that the rule 'was made by something that was responsible for evolution'. I responded saying that no one can tell you who is responsible for Evolution except perhaps God. God did not make the rule that Theorists should apply their theory only to living things. That rule was created by the theorists.

I repeat. You lack basic knowledge about science and evolution.

I will check what excuse Maethist gave for running. Did he debate evolution with you too?

[SBM]

Proof of EVOLUTION is right here. Maethist turns into Fayyaz

[Al Zulfiqar]

admin,

please shift this thread to islam today as it has nothing to do with bohras and reform. we all know in which direction it is heading.

[anajmi]

Guys,

let us stop creating more work for the Admin within every thread. Let them die on their own. If you don't wish to participate, do not participate.

I repeat. You lack basic knowledge about science and evolution.

Thankfully, none of us will be getting that basic knowledge from you, cause you will be busy running.

Brother anjami, you mean that leadership or following a dai Are as per Quran ?

Not this particular Dai cause his worthlessness has been established beyond any doubt. But yes, following leaders who are knowledgeable in Islam and the Quran is not against the teachings of Islam. But following people like the current Dai despite his atrocious and unIslamic behavior is inexcusable.

But here dai himself is the reason for shirk. Haroon ( A.S) brother of Musa A.S was not the reason for shirk ! He was guiding people only to God.In this case are we allowed to follow such a dai or leadership.

You are correct. But then there are people like fayyaz who will try to teach you that since following a Dai is not against the Quran, there is nothing wrong in following this particular Dai. These are the kinds of people that you have be wary of. They are like those who will steer clear of a ditch but do not have a problem when others are falling into it. They might even try to convince you that there is nothing wrong with falling into it.

[fayyaaz]

But then there are people like fayyaz who will try to teach you that since following a Dai is not against the Quran, there is nothing wrong in following this particular Dai. These are the kinds of people that you have be wary of. They are like those who will steer clear of a ditch but do not have a problem when others are falling into it. They might even try to convince you that there is nothing wrong with falling into it.

Following any particular Dai is your choice. fayyaaz will not tell you to follow this Dai or that Dai or not to follow this Dai or that Dai. Neither will fayyaz tell you that it is wrong or 'nothing wrong' to follow this Dai or that Dai. I leave preaching like that to people like the Dai and anajmi.

[haqniwaat]

The 21st Imam, per Dawoodi Bohra belief, was a human and passed away like all humans and appointed his son as Imam. So the present day Imam is in the lineage of the 21st Imam but we in satr still know him as Tayyeb. And the present Imam like his predecessors upto the 21st have a dawat in seclusion which is anywhere but hind, sind, and Yemen, for these are the only three official areas where the dai al satr can have his headquarters.

[fayyaaz]

So the present day Imam is in the lineage of the 21st Imam but we in satr still know him as Tayyeb.

Are you sure? That does not appear to be correct. Is the present day Imam not called by another name?

Actually, he is simply called Imamuz Zamaan and there is a 2 rakaat namaaz for him also offered during the course of Mota Bawisa ni dua normally recited during Lailatul Qadr. Niyyat for the namaz is:

Usalli salata hadiyatan ila mawlana Imamiz Zamaani rakatayni lillahi .....

Reference to Imamuz Zamaan in Taqarrub ni dua is to the progeny of Imam Tayyab towards the end:

...wa ala abaihit tahireen wa abnaihil akrameenal muntazireen ila yawmid deen....

and (salawaat) be upon his (Imam Tayyab's) pure ancestors and his awaited noble descendants until the Day of Judgment.....

[WiththenameofAllah]

Thanks bro anjami for answering. So what should be our action against him as a Muslim?
Is this Imam who is hidden is same as Imam Mehdi ? or some other ?

Haqniwaat.. I think this Imam going to satr and all are made up stories of bohras to hide something or to get money out of people's pocket.

[fayyaaz]

Thanks bro anjami for answering. So what should be our action against him as a Muslim?

You should follow anajmi and join all Bohra forums and rant against the perfidies of their Dai.

Is this Imam who is hidden is same as Imam Mehdi ? or some other ?

Hidden Imam of the Bohras is not the same as Imam Mehdi of any other sect. By asking a question like this you display the intelligence appropriate for a disciple of anajmi. He attracts intellectually-challenged followers.

Haqniwaat.. I think this Imam going to satr and all are made up stories of bohras to hide something or to get money out of people's pocket.

Imam is hiding himself and not in a position to collect money himself. If you think that he made up the story of going into hiding and instructed all the Dais since the 1st Dai to hoodwink Bohras to part with their money, would you be able to enumerate the riches of the Dais from #1 to #46? Do not forget to include all the competing Dais such as Sulaimani etc.

[WiththenameofAllah]

Let the one I have asked the question answer it too.
Please keep the post for information only as I am not very educated about Fatimid dawat and would like information.
JazakAllah khair.
And Allah knows the best.

[anajmi]

fayyaaz will not tell you to follow this Dai or that Dai or not to follow this Dai or that Dai. Neither will fayyaz tell you that it is wrong or 'nothing wrong' to follow this Dai or that Dai.

Which basically means that anything fayyaz tells anyone on this forum is going to be completely useless.

Thanks bro anjami for answering. So what should be our action against him as a Muslim?

Unlike fayyaaz who doesn't tell anyone anything, you need to inform people of the wrongs of this Dai in the light of the Quran and the Sunnah of the prophet (saw). Did the prophet (saw) have people cowering in front of him? Did the prophet (saw) move around like a corpse on palkis? If bohras were to read the Quran with understanding, most of them would know the truth.

My abde friends tell me do you understand Alif, Laam, Meem, when I ask them to read Quran with understanding. This is the crap that is fed to them. If you don't understand Alif, Laam, Meem you won't understand anything. I ask them - Do you understand ABC? No. Did you stop going to school after that?

Is this Imam who is hidden is same as Imam Mehdi ? or some other ?

First, there is no Imam that is hiding. He is an excuse the Dai uses to extort money from abdes. As I have explained before, a guy who is hiding cannot be an Imam. Imam Mehdi is prophecy. Someone who will come in the future. He will be a normal human being and not a 1000 year old coming out of hiding.

Haqniwaat.. I think this Imam going to satr and all are made up stories of bohras to hide something or to get money out of people's pocket.

All rulers after the first 4 khalifas were kings. They were all in it for the sake of the power and the money. The Imam that went into hiding, went there because he was scared of his life. Did he value his life more than death in the name of Islam? Of course. That is why he went into hiding and never came out. Did he have a plan to come out of hiding and defeat his enemies? Obviously not. The Dai came to power, the hiding Imam remained scared and the Dai kept the power for himself. Maybe some Dais in the beginning waited for the Imam to come out. But they probably realized he wasn't coming out. They might've kept the story going to keep the masses in check. But subsequently realized that they themselves could make hay in the light of the hiding Imam. And here we are!!

[fayyaaz]

Please keep the post for information only as I am not very educated about Fatimid dawat and would like information.

Since you have already concluded that "Imam going to satr and all are made up stories of bohras to hide something or to get money out of people's pocket", what purpose would knowing about Fatinid dawat serve for your education?

An "intellectually challenged" person would draw conclusions about anything without knowing anything about it. Thanks for confirming that you are one.

I think that you will be better entertained reading Harry Potter novels. This Fatimid stuff is very boring and it will take you away from Islam as your leader anajmi instructs. Best to keep away from it.

If instead you want to learn about ranting against Bohra beliefs and their Dais, all you need to do is to read 14 years worth of anajmi's contribution, all 12,000 plus posts, to this forum. I guarantee you will become an anajmi clone in no time.

That is valuable information.

[SBM]

This Fatimid stuff is very boring

And that is why we have entertainers like SMS talking about it to make it interesting, RIGHT

[fayyaaz]

This Fatimid stuff is very boring

And that is why we have entertainers like SMS talking about it to make it interesting, RIGHT

Yes, if SMS has the skills to make the boring stuff entertaining.

But you should first check if he indeed talks about the Fatimid stuff. That would be a bit of stretch for the intellectually-challenged such as yourself.

[Rebel]

fayyaaz will not tell you to follow this Dai or that Dai or not to follow this Dai or that Dai. Neither will fayyaz tell you that it is wrong or 'nothing wrong' to follow this Dai or that Dai.

Which basically means that anything fayyaz tells anyone on this forum is going to be completely useless.

Thanks bro anjami for answering. So what should be our action against him as a Muslim?

Unlike fayyaaz who doesn't tell anyone anything, you need to inform people of the wrongs of this Dai in the light of the Quran and the Sunnah of the prophet (saw). Did the prophet (saw) have people cowering in front of him? Did the prophet (saw) move around like a corpse on palkis? If bohras were to read the Quran with understanding, most of them would know the truth.

My abde friends tell me do you understand Alif, Laam, Meem, when I ask them to read Quran with understanding. This is the crap that is fed to them. If you don't understand Alif, Laam, Meem you won't understand anything. I ask them - Do you understand ABC? No. Did you stop going to school after that?

Is this Imam who is hidden is same as Imam Mehdi ? or some other ?

First, there is no Imam that is hiding. He is an excuse the Dai uses to extort money from abdes. As I have explained before, a guy who is hiding cannot be an Imam. Imam Mehdi is prophecy. Someone who will come in the future. He will be a normal human being and not a 1000 year old coming out of hiding.

Haqniwaat.. I think this Imam going to satr and all are made up stories of bohras to hide something or to get money out of people's pocket.

All rulers after the first 4 khalifas were kings. They were all in it for the sake of the power and the money. The Imam that went into hiding, went there because he was scared of his life. Did he value his life more than death in the name of Islam? Of course. That is why he went into hiding and never came out. Did he have a plan to come out of hiding and defeat his enemies? Obviously not. The Dai came to power, the hiding Imam remained scared and the Dai kept the power for himself. Maybe some Dais in the beginning waited for the Imam to come out. But they probably realized he wasn't coming out. They might've kept the story going to keep the masses in check. But subsequently realized that they themselves could make hay in the light of the hiding Imam. And here we are!!

Good point, Imam may never come out at least in our lifetime, either he is sacred for his life from his own Dai - MS and his brutal company.

[anajmi]

what purpose would knowing about Fatinid dawat serve for your education?

Precisely. Knowledge about Fatimid dawat serves no purpose towards the achievement of the hereafter. If knowledge is what you desire for the sake of knowledge, then you can spend time and energy studying about it although, something that has been made so difficult to study is probably not worth studying after all. If you want to learn about Fatimid dawat to improve your knowledge about Islam, so as to make your hereafter better, then you will be wasting your time. Allah sent us the Quran and not Fatimid dawat. So, study the Quran and the Sunnah of the prophet (saw). The Quran and the Sunnah is easy to understand, unless you have been listening to the fatimi dawat-ers. They will tell you that the Quran is impossible to understand unless you go through them and then in the name of the Quran, they will feed you crap.

An "intellectually challenged" person would draw conclusions about anything without knowing anything about it.

Well, if you have listened to one waez of the mad raving lunatic in Surat, no one will be able to accuse you of being intellectually challenged. Unless the accuser himself is a retard.

[anajmi]

He is more than an atheist. He is maethist.

[Biradar]

The question is simple: "21 imam has appointed other imam? confused".

The answer is also simple: "Yes". Thats all.

To elaborate. Unlike the ithna-ashari beliefs, the Imam is in seclusion (not "hiding") and lives a normal life span, appointing his successor before passing away. This succession is going on for eons and will keep going. Sometimes Imamat passes between brothers (like Hassan and Hussain, and Abdullah and Abu Talib, for example), but otherwise only from father to son. Before the 21st Imam, Imam Tayeb (AS) went into seclusion, his father, Imam Amir (AS), authorized Maulatona Hurratul Maleka to appoint the dua't mutlaqeen, to lead the dawaat after his assassination and the start of the period of saatar. The da'i's, in one way, are like the nabis mentioned in the Quran, and in another sense superior to them. In any case, the succession of imamat continues in the progeny of Imam Tayeb (AS). At some point in the future his descendant will reveal himself (will do zuhur), with the potential end of the era of Muhammad (SAW) and inauguration of a new era.

[KA786110]

@Biradar: Thanks for explaining the Bohra belief of hidden. Very clearly explained.