Abu Talib a.s.: Bohras v/s non-Islamic

If you have questions or want to share knowledge about Dawoodi Bohra religions and rituals please post them here. Any discussion outside the framework of Dawoodi Bohra beliefs and tradition is not allowed. This forum is primarily for sharing of information and knowledge.
Munira_RV
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Abu Talib a.s.: Bohras v/s non-Islamic

#1

Unread post by Munira_RV » Fri Oct 24, 2014 3:33 pm

Dons of non-Bohras (= non-Islamic) cult misrepresented Abu Sufiyan and Hinda who chewed heart of Hamza (Shaheed-a-azam of Medina), slitted Hamza's hand & legs and wore it over her neck - Dons consider these Hinds and Abu Sufiya (who murdered two tooth of Mohamed PBUH) as the true and genuine Muslims!!!!!!

Where else those who parented Mohamed PBUH: Molana Abu Talib a.s. and Molatina Fatima bint Asad r.a. are misrepresented by Dons as "kaafirs" (mazalla) - reference Sahih Bukhari 26:658 and Sahih Muslim 7:3132.

Dons (Tom, Dick and Harry) were such an enemy of Islam that because Hamza has killed many relatives of Dons and because Prophet Mohamed PBUH has elevated Hamza's respect by honouring him as "Shaheed-a-azam" - so Dons forged another fake tradition that: Hamza was darooriya (alcoholic), was thief and disrespected Mohamed!!!! (Mazallah) - Reference Sahih Bukhari 40:563.

Cult of Dons is the product of enemies of Islam i.e. Yahood and Nasara. And Bohras (= Islam) is product of Allah's apostle, the religion that Allah has chosen. Alhamdolillah.
Last edited by Munira_RV on Fri Oct 24, 2014 4:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.

anajmi
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Re: Abu Talib a.s.: Bohras v/s non-Islamic

#2

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Oct 24, 2014 3:47 pm

When lover of Mola Ali (A) came to meet Ali, Prophet Mohamed PBUH use to refer them, "O' Ali your Shia's have came to meet you."
Provide proof?

Munira_RV
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Re: Abu Talib a.s.: Bohras v/s non-Islamic

#3

Unread post by Munira_RV » Fri Oct 24, 2014 3:57 pm

-
Last edited by Munira_RV on Fri Oct 24, 2014 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

anajmi
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Re: Abu Talib a.s.: Bohras v/s non-Islamic

#4

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Oct 24, 2014 4:00 pm

Post the link or copy and paste the passage you are referring to.

Munira_RV
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Re: Abu Talib a.s.: Bohras v/s non-Islamic

#5

Unread post by Munira_RV » Fri Oct 24, 2014 4:01 pm

The concerns are Dons anti-Islamic and Yahoodi behaviour in:
. (1) Sahih Bukhari 26:658 and Sahih Muslim 7:3132.
. (2) Sahih Bukhari 40:563.
Last edited by Munira_RV on Fri Oct 24, 2014 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

anajmi
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Re: Abu Talib a.s.: Bohras v/s non-Islamic

#6

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Oct 24, 2014 4:08 pm

I am not diverting from the topic. Your very first sentence says what?
When lover of Mola Ali (A) came to meet Ali, Prophet Mohamed PBUH use to refer them, "O' Ali your Shia's have came to meet you."
That is the core of this thread. If the above is not true, then the core of this thread is a lie. So let me ask you again. Please provide the proof that Ahmad ibn Hanbal has said this in his works. I am even ready to purchase this book to read this passage. Provide the link or copy and paste the passage. I am sure before making this claim, you actually read the passage and verified it right? Because I know badrijanab never did that and that is why he had to run in a burqa.

Munira_RV
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Re: Abu Talib a.s.: Bohras v/s non-Islamic

#7

Unread post by Munira_RV » Fri Oct 24, 2014 4:22 pm

Dons of non-Bohras cult (= non-Islamic) misrepresented Abu Sufiyan and Hinda, who chewed heart of Hamza (Shaheed-a-azam of Medina), who slitted Hamza's hand & legs and wore it over her neck, who rode his horse over dead-body of Hamza, who murdered two tooth of Mohamed PBUH) - Tom, Dick and Harry consider duo as the true and genuine Muslims!!!!!!

Where else those who parented Mohamed PBUH: Molana Abu Talib a.s. and Molatina Fatima bint Asad r.a. are misrepresented by Dons as "kaafirs" (mazalla) - reference Sahih Bukhari 26:658 and Sahih Muslim 7:3132.

Dons (Tom, Dick and Harry) were such an enemy of Islam that because Hamza has killed many relatives of Dons and because Prophet Mohamed PBUH has elevated Hamza's respect by honouring him as "Shaheed-a-azam" - so Dons forged another fake tradition that: Hamza was darooriya (alcoholic), was thief and disrespected Mohamed!!!! (Mazallah) - Reference Sahih Bukhari 40:563.

Cult of Dons is the product of enemies of Islam i.e. Yahood and Nasara. And Bohras (= Islam) is product of Allah's apostle, the religion that Allah has chosen. Alhamdolillah.

anajmi
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Re: Abu Talib a.s.: Bohras v/s non-Islamic

#8

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Oct 24, 2014 4:59 pm

So it looks like we can assume that the prophet (saw) never said what you claim he said.

Munira_RV
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Re: Abu Talib a.s.: Bohras v/s non-Islamic

#9

Unread post by Munira_RV » Fri Oct 24, 2014 5:34 pm

Parents of Mola Ali a.s.: Syyedna Abu Talib a.s. and Molatina Fatima bint Asad r.a. parented Prophet Mohamed PBUH - They are labelled as "kaafirs" by cult of X, Y & Z.
- Reference Sahih Bukhari 26:658 and Sahih Muslim 7:3132

Hamza was declared Shaheed-a-azam by Prophet Mohamed PBUH - He is labelled as alcoholic, thief and disrespectful by cult of X, Y and Z.
- Reference Sahih Bukhari 40:563

Enemies of Bohras have not stopped on above! They have even not spared Prophet Mohamed PBUH, they label him as mad man!!!
- Reference Sahih Bukhari 3:114.

=> Hence proved, the cult of X, Y & Z (non-Bohras Shia's) are formed by Munafiqs, Yahoodi & Nasara.

badrijanab
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Re: Abu Talib a.s.: Bohras v/s non-Islamic

#10

Unread post by badrijanab » Fri Oct 24, 2014 5:51 pm

Munira_RV wrote:Parents of Mola Ali a.s.: Syyedna Abu Talib a.s. and Molatina Fatima bint Asad r.a. parented Prophet Mohamed PBUH - They are labelled as "kaafirs" by cult of X, Y & Z.
- Reference Sahih Bukhari 26:658 and Sahih Muslim 7:3132

Hamza was declared Shaheed-a-azam by Prophet Mohamed PBUH - He is labelled as alcoholic, thief and disrespectful by cult of X, Y and Z.
- Reference Sahih Bukhari 40:563

Enemies of Bohras have not stopped on above! They have even not spared Prophet Mohamed PBUH, they label him as mad man!!!
- Reference Sahih Bukhari 3:114.

=> Hence proved, the cults of X, Y & Z (non-Bohras Shia's) are formed by Munafiqs, Yahoodi & Nasara.
Thanks for sharing.

Munira_RV
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Re: Abu Talib a.s.: Bohras v/s non-Islamic

#11

Unread post by Munira_RV » Wed Oct 29, 2014 7:31 am

Parents of Mola Ali a.s.: Syyedna Abu Talib a.s. and Molatina Fatima bint Asad r.a. parented Prophet Mohamed PBUH - They are labelled as "kaafirs" by cult of X, Y & Z.
- Reference Sahih Bukhari 26:658 and Sahih Muslim 7:3132

Hamza was declared Shaheed-a-azam by Prophet Mohamed PBUH - He is labelled as alcoholic, thief and disrespectful by cult of X, Y and Z.
- Reference Sahih Bukhari 40:563

Enemies of Bohras have not stopped on above! They have even not spared Prophet Mohamed PBUH, they label him as mad man!!!
- Reference Sahih Bukhari 3:114.

=> Hence proved, the cults of X, Y & Z (non-Bohras Shia's) are formed by Munafiqs, Yahoodi & Nasara.

It is now high time that all who left Bohras should re-think that their new fancied sect is indeed gutter where all pious personality of Islam are badmouthed: Prophet Mohamed PBUH himself, besides his uncle Hamza and those who parented Prophet PBUH. Now they all should leave gutter, do 'taharat' and join back Dawoodi Bohras fold.

SBM
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Re: Abu Talib a.s.: Bohras v/s non-Islamic

#12

Unread post by SBM » Wed Oct 29, 2014 8:48 am

MNunira RV
Are you the reincarnation of Badrijanab?
Another bumble bee talking about PRISTINE DAWOODI BOHRA cult which can not even decide the rightful successor. :mrgreen:

chocoman
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Re: Abu Talib a.s.: Bohras v/s non-Islamic

#13

Unread post by chocoman » Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:19 am

Sorry SBM bhai, the posts from munira bhen are not only related to dawoodi bohras but it is one of the main crux of shia doctrines. I'm sure the contention is not to disconcert Sunnis brothers but one should acknowledge that the man who took care of nabi and the father of imam Ali was not a kafir!!!!! But a man who was chosen by Allah destined to take care of prophet was indeed a man of wisdom

The enemies of ahlal bait were always there, in fact I was shocked when I happened to read the divine comedy by Dante Alighieri who had portrayed Rasul and imam Ali in the 8th circle of hell that depicted fraud. Great men have enemies but only the wise would see the good and dissect the truth out of it. I implore not only you but everyone to acknowledge to the contribution made by Abu talib and not to fall prey to abhorrent hadiths elucidated by random tom dick and harry depicting Abu talib as a..........

SBM
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Re: Abu Talib a.s.: Bohras v/s non-Islamic

#14

Unread post by SBM » Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:55 am

^
Chocoman
If you read her post it said DAWOODI BOHRA and not Shia and that is why I asked that question

anajmi
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Re: Abu Talib a.s.: Bohras v/s non-Islamic

#15

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Oct 29, 2014 10:33 am

By the way, notice that munirajanab removed this statement from her first post after I questioned it's validity.
When lover of Mola Ali (A) came to meet Ali, Prophet Mohamed PBUH use to refer them, "O' Ali your Shia's have came to meet you."

Munira_RV
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Re: Abu Talib a.s.: Bohras v/s non-Islamic

#16

Unread post by Munira_RV » Thu Oct 30, 2014 7:03 am

Parents of Mola Ali a.s.: Syyedna Abu Talib a.s. and Molatina Fatima bint Asad r.a. parented Prophet Mohamed PBUH - They are labelled as "kaafirs" by cult of X, Y & Z.
- Reference Sahih Bukhari 26:658 and Sahih Muslim 7:3132

Hamza was declared Shaheed-a-azam by Prophet Mohamed PBUH - He is labelled as alcoholic, thief and disrespectful by cult of X, Y and Z.
- Reference Sahih Bukhari 40:563

Enemies of Bohras have not stopped on above! They have even not spared Prophet Mohamed PBUH, they label him as mad man!!!
- Reference Sahih Bukhari 3:114.

=> Hence proved, the cults of X, Y & Z (non-Bohras Shia's) are formed by Munafiqs, Yahoodi & Nasara.
It is now high time that all who left Bohras should re-think that their new fancied sect is indeed gutter where all pious personality of Islam are badmouthed: Prophet Mohamed PBUH himself, besides his uncle Hamza and those who parented Prophet PBUH. Now they all should leave gutter, do 'taharat' and join back Dawoodi Bohras fold.

KA786110
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Re: Abu Talib a.s.: Bohras v/s non-Islamic

#17

Unread post by KA786110 » Sun Nov 02, 2014 12:41 am

lol lady nobody in their right mind would leave islam and revert back to your secretly hindu gutter sect of bohraism. stick to making rotis.
What prompted you to conclude that Bohri sect is secretly Hindu? Please do explain.

I do not agree that being non-Bohri is equal to being non-Muslim. The Shahada makes all Muslim sects into one Ummah. But your conclusion about Bohri being secretly Hindu is mind numbing.

KA786110
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Re: Abu Talib a.s.: Bohras v/s non-Islamic

#18

Unread post by KA786110 » Sun Nov 02, 2014 11:52 pm

Jockey wrote:
KA786110 wrote: What prompted you to conclude that Bohri sect is secretly Hindu? Please do explain.

I do not agree that being non-Bohri is equal to being non-Muslim. The Shahada makes all Muslim sects into one Ummah. But your conclusion about Bohri being secretly Hindu is mind numbing.
by secretly hindi I mean that the bohras consider themselves following the truest form of islam, but there practices are like those of hindus, they are all hypocrites
Is not every Muslim sect think that they are the only ones who have the right interpretation?

What practices of Bohras are Hindu like? Please do give us some examples.

humanbeing
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Re: Abu Talib a.s.: Bohras v/s non-Islamic

#19

Unread post by humanbeing » Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:11 am

KA786110 wrote:What practices of Bohras are Hindu like? Please do give us some examples.
Wadhvani Rasam : A greeting gesture performed as a ritual to celebrate welcoming or other ocassions, similar to AARTI in hinduism

Mama Mushaalo : A wedding ritual, inspired from tribals in Rajasthan and Gujarat; coconut, beetel nut, coin, dry fruits kept in a red color cloth and tied on the main doorway of the wedding houses by the maternal uncle to ward off evil influences.

Katho Peetvo : A wedding ritual, inspired from tribals in Rajasthan and Gujarat; aunties (paternal and maternal) of the couple coming together to grind dry fruits, ocassion is celebrated with singing local folklore and drumming steel kitchewares.

Nariyal Breaking : An inaugration ritual, inspired from hinduism; breaking of a nariyal for good omen, and distributing the water and pieces of coconut as salwaat akin to prasad.

Black Markings : A black dot, alif, noon markings near the ear of New borns and kids up to certain age to ward off evil influences (nazar)

Bloody Palm prints : Zabihat done upon purchase of new assets, and palms of the owner soaked in warm blood of the slaughtered animal and imprinted on the asset to ward off evil infuences.

Munira_RV
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Re: Abu Talib a.s.: Bohras v/s non-Islamic

#20

Unread post by Munira_RV » Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:48 am

humanbeing wrote:
KA786110 wrote:What practices of Bohras are Hindu like? Please do give us some examples.
Wadhvani Rasam : A greeting gesture performed as a ritual to celebrate welcoming or other ocassions, similar to AARTI in hinduism

Mama Mushaalo : A wedding ritual, inspired from tribals in Rajasthan and Gujarat; coconut, beetel nut, coin, dry fruits kept in a red color cloth and tied on the main doorway of the wedding houses by the maternal uncle to ward off evil influences.

Katho Peetvo : A wedding ritual, inspired from tribals in Rajasthan and Gujarat; aunties (paternal and maternal) of the couple coming together to grind dry fruits, ocassion is celebrated with singing local folklore and drumming steel kitchewares.

Nariyal Breaking : An inaugration ritual, inspired from hinduism; breaking of a nariyal for good omen, and distributing the water and pieces of coconut as salwaat akin to prasad.

Black Markings : A black dot, alif, noon markings near the ear of New borns and kids up to certain age to ward off evil influences (nazar)

Bloody Palm prints : Zabihat done upon purchase of new assets, and palms of the owner soaked in warm blood of the slaughtered animal and imprinted on the asset to ward off evil infuences.
Humanbeing,

Kindly prove how above rituals are against which verses of the Quran?

KA786110
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Re: Abu Talib a.s.: Bohras v/s non-Islamic

#21

Unread post by KA786110 » Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:02 am

@Humanbeing: Non of your examples are religious rituals. Those are cultural artifacts. Each Muslim country/area/tribes has its own cultural heritage which they practice. Next you will tell they are Hindu like because their language is Gujarati, Persian, Hindi, Urdu etc. Go and learn more about Islam (not Wahhabi/Salafi nonsense).

Munira_RV
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Re: Abu Talib a.s.: Bohras v/s non-Islamic

#22

Unread post by Munira_RV » Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:56 am

Munira_RV wrote:Parents of Mola Ali a.s.: Syyedna Abu Talib a.s. and Molatina Fatima bint Asad r.a. parented Prophet Mohamed PBUH - They are labelled as "kaafirs" by cult of X, Y & Z.
- Reference Sahih Bukhari 26:658 and Sahih Muslim 7:3132

Hamza was declared Shaheed-a-azam by Prophet Mohamed PBUH - He is labelled as alcoholic, thief and disrespectful by cult of X, Y and Z.
- Reference Sahih Bukhari 40:563

Enemies of Bohras have not stopped on above! They have even not spared Prophet Mohamed PBUH, they label him as mad man!!!
- Reference Sahih Bukhari 3:114.

=> Hence proved, the cults of X, Y & Z (non-Bohras Shia's) are formed by Munafiqs, Yahoodi & Nasara.
It is now high time that all who left Bohras should re-think that their new fancied sect is indeed gutter where all pious personality of Islam are badmouthed: Prophet Mohamed PBUH himself, besides his uncle Hamza and those who parented Prophet PBUH. Now they all should leave gutter, do 'taharat' and join back Dawoodi Bohras fold.

SBM
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Re: Abu Talib a.s.: Bohras v/s non-Islamic

#23

Unread post by SBM » Mon Nov 03, 2014 12:03 pm

Br Badrijanab aka Muinra RV
I am confused by your last post, can be little more specific

KA786110
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Re: Abu Talib a.s.: Bohras v/s non-Islamic

#24

Unread post by KA786110 » Mon Nov 03, 2014 7:56 pm

Jockey wrote:
Munira_RV wrote: Humanbeing,

Kindly prove how above rituals are against which verses of the Quran?
wow when it comes to imamat you don't need any proof from quran to be convinced, but now you do. dumb bohra go try to prove your fake religion somewhere else
@Jockey: Do you realize on which forum you are on? let me make it clear: http://www.dawoodi-bohras.com

Imamat was declared by Holy Prophet by the commandment of Allah at GhadirE Khum but apparently you guys choose to ignore it.

anajmi
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Re: Abu Talib a.s.: Bohras v/s non-Islamic

#25

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:58 pm

Actually, the word "Imam" or "Imamat" was never mentioned by the prophet (saw) at Ghadeer Khum.

KA786110
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Re: Abu Talib a.s.: Bohras v/s non-Islamic

#26

Unread post by KA786110 » Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:22 pm

anajmi wrote:Actually, the word "Imam" or "Imamat" was never mentioned by the prophet (saw) at Ghadeer Khum.
What was said at Ghadeer Khum? Let me know what you have heard.
Last edited by KA786110 on Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

KA786110
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Re: Abu Talib a.s.: Bohras v/s non-Islamic

#27

Unread post by KA786110 » Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:32 pm

Jockey wrote:
Munira_RV wrote: Humanbeing,

Kindly prove how above rituals are against which verses of the Quran?
wow when it comes to imamat you don't need any proof from quran to be convinced, but now you do. dumb bohra go try to prove your fake religion somewhere else
@Jockey: What is wrong with Munira_RV's request. Since Humanbeing is listing cultural traditions as non-islamic, let him/her prove those allegations. Please go and learn how to differentiate between cultural traditions and religious rites.

humanbeing
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Re: Abu Talib a.s.: Bohras v/s non-Islamic

#28

Unread post by humanbeing » Tue Nov 04, 2014 2:04 am

KA786110 wrote:@Humanbeing: Non of your examples are religious rituals. Those are cultural artifacts. Each Muslim country/area/tribes has its own cultural heritage which they practice. Next you will tell they are Hindu like because their language is Gujarati, Persian, Hindi, Urdu etc. Go and learn more about Islam (not Wahhabi/Salafi nonsense).


KA786110


I partly agree with you, this are not totally religious rituals and are merely an adaptation or cultural hangover from hindu origins. Most of these rituals are also harmless, however somewhere promoting superstitions which is anti-scientific and anti-Islamic. Your question was

KA786110 wrote:What practices of Bohras are Hindu like? Please do give us some examples.

I understand this as a general question, and you did not specify the religious rituals. Even your argument of this not being religious is debatable. May I say that, prophet Muhammad (PBUH) mentioned in his preachings that a muslim must not act in any manner that presents or similar to idol worshipper acts. This preaching is further promoted by the Bohra DAI too. Therefore we have farmaans like “don’t-eat-from-hindus-sources/hands” and ofcourse many devout abdes dislike “hindu-jeva-chehra” . the examples I quoted have an essence of religiosity to it with regards to bohra faith, they are performed religiously in bohra deen (way of life), the most loud and flashy example is the “wadhwani” rasam which is performed religiously on bohra DAI.


There is another interesting cultural artifact hangover from hindu origin;


Sprinkling of water reciting salwaat to purify the surrounding which may have been polluted by dirt or non-bohra presence.


Nazar-Lota utarvu : A water filled lota is circled on the head of the victim made to sit on the door-way to ward off evil spirit. This is a common practice done to ward off fevers and buri-nazar


Interestingly a religious twist/color/flavor is given to these adapted rituals by reciting salwaat, some duaa passed on from devri, and reciting surahs from quran and are to be performed by the person after making wudu !


Please advise your definition of religious ?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Frankly, I have no such animosity towards these superstitious rituals, I enjoy/observe them as a cultural entertainment. But just highlighting the twisted hypocrisy of kothar !

qutub_mamajiwala
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Re: Abu Talib a.s.: Bohras v/s non-Islamic

#29

Unread post by qutub_mamajiwala » Tue Nov 04, 2014 2:38 am

in this times tradition and religion is getting mixed.
we have to be careful what is tradition and what is religion, otherwise clergy takes full advantage
of our ignorance and exploits us. this happens all over the world.
there is arab tradition of dancing with swords and playing duff in marraige. this is just tradition and nothing to do
with religion. same way egyptians shouts with their hands on mouth in any ceremony.
this also has nothing to do with islam.
actually islam is vry simple and straight forward without any compulsion or twists.
prophet didnt change much of the practice prevailed in arabia at that time except shirk, burying of daughters and a
few more.
rest all practices the arabs do are thier tradition and has nothing to do with islam. like wearing their clothes
which has now come to be called as islamic dress particularly in females.
another one is marriage which is practiced differently in different geogrophical areas.
but has nothing to do with islam as such. according to islam for marriage only two thinks are necessary--one is mehr and other is two witness. if this two condition is satisfied, anyone can do nikah with anyone. it is as simple as its get in islam.
same is the case in indian subcontinent and iran and elsewhere

humanbeing
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Re: Abu Talib a.s.: Bohras v/s non-Islamic

#30

Unread post by humanbeing » Tue Nov 04, 2014 2:44 am

KA786110 wrote:Since Humanbeing is listing cultural traditions as non-islamic, let him/her prove those allegations. Please go and learn how to differentiate between cultural traditions and religious rites.
KA786110


I am presenting my POVs only. I am always open to correction and you are welcome to agree or disagree with me.


It is interesting to see how kothar has adopted hindu rituals to promote their agenda of submission from abdes and very smartly negated the hindu way of life, which cannot be aligned with Islamic identity. There are some more actions of bohras/abdes which can be debated. We cannot generalize everything under the pretext of exploitation, thus it is better we can specifically discuss any ritual in its context. However it is important for kothar to present/approve these rituals as religious to thump down its importance, obedience and associated dependence that makes kothar important in life of bohras.


Celebrating holy/Diwali/Christmas etc are also a cultural adaptations that many Indians across hindu, muslims, Christians, but these are token of mutual-cooperation and does not affect the core principles of the individual’s faith respectively. But what kothar does is, it takes up a ritual and re-packages it as bohra/Islamic ritual and performed religiously as part of piety.

(1) Joining of palms and addressing a person is a simple act of greeting with respect (or) an act of submission/worship with piety in heart for an IDOL. This originated in hindu culture.



But fast forward it to euphoric abde crowd with similar actions chanting “maula-maula” which definition will you pick up from the above. The intention, faith that is going on in the heart of the chanting abde, has exceeded for from giving respect and has transgressed into worshipping of the divine IDOL.


There are many many such acts promoted as religious piety by kothar, inspired from idol worshipping origins.