Abu Talib a.s.: Bohras v/s non-Islamic

If you have questions or want to share knowledge about Dawoodi Bohra religions and rituals please post them here. Any discussion outside the framework of Dawoodi Bohra beliefs and tradition is not allowed. This forum is primarily for sharing of information and knowledge.
Munira_RV
Posts: 157
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:38 pm

Re: Abu Talib a.s.: Bohras v/s non-Islamic

#31

Unread post by Munira_RV » Wed Nov 05, 2014 12:19 pm

Gullible non-Bohras fearing and shying away from facing truth below proven from their own books. So they are trying to derail the original post! Have courage to face the truth below and be intelligent to recognise the evil in your fake and anti-Islam version of Islam.
Munira_RV wrote:Parents of Mola Ali a.s.: Syyedna Abu Talib a.s. and Molatina Fatima bint Asad r.a. parented Prophet Mohamed PBUH - They are labelled as "kaafirs" by cult of X, Y & Z.
- Reference Sahih Bukhari 26:658 and Sahih Muslim 7:3132

Hamza was declared Shaheed-a-azam by Prophet Mohamed PBUH - He is labelled as alcoholic, thief and disrespectful by cult of X, Y and Z.
- Reference Sahih Bukhari 40:563

Enemies of Bohras have not stopped on above! They have even not spared Prophet Mohamed PBUH, they label him as mad man!!!
- Reference Sahih Bukhari 3:114.

=> Hence proved, the cults of X, Y & Z (non-Bohras Shia's) are formed by Munafiqs, Yahoodi & Nasara.

KA786110
Posts: 360
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:20 am

Re: Abu Talib a.s.: Bohras v/s non-Islamic

#32

Unread post by KA786110 » Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:05 pm

if anyone's gullible its bohras, that's why they believe in such nonsense like immamat and that they are following true islam
Actually Shia understanding and way is the original Islam because they are the ones who Obeyed Allah, His Rasul (PBUH), and Rasul's Wasi Imam Ali A.S.
Jamat Ahle-Sunnat came into being after first four caliphs and took a separate identity during Abassids (Shafi, Mallik, Hanbal etc). So Shia follow the Rasul (PBUH) much closer than other tariqah's of Islam which do not accept the last commands of Rasul (PBUH) at Ghadir E Khum (Man Kuntu Mawla and Two Weighty things).

Please review Quranic Ayats: 4:59 and 17:71

KA786110
Posts: 360
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:20 am

Re: Abu Talib a.s.: Bohras v/s non-Islamic

#33

Unread post by KA786110 » Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:14 pm

=> Hence proved, the cults of X, Y & Z (non-Bohras Shia's) are formed by Munafiqs, Yahoodi & Nasara.
It looks like you are jumping to a very harsh conclusion. What is the cult of X, Y and Z?

Maybe you are concluding like some other conspiracy theory believers. For example some believe (with some validity) that current three or four of the so called Muslim movements (closely aligned with Salafi/Wahabi interpretation) are products of western geo-political power play.
Munira_RV wrote:Parents of Mola Ali a.s.: Syyedna Abu Talib a.s. and Molatina Fatima bint Asad r.a. parented Prophet Mohamed PBUH - They are labelled as "kaafirs" by cult of X, Y & Z.
- Reference Sahih Bukhari 26:658 and Sahih Muslim 7:3132

Hamza was declared Shaheed-a-azam by Prophet Mohamed PBUH - He is labelled as alcoholic, thief and disrespectful by cult of X, Y and Z.
- Reference Sahih Bukhari 40:563

Enemies of Bohras have not stopped on above! They have even not spared Prophet Mohamed PBUH, they label him as mad man!!!
- Reference Sahih Bukhari 3:114.
I understand why you are ticked off. I sympathize with you. Hazrat Abu Talib was an ardent supporter of Holy Prophet (PBUH).

These point to some weaknesses and errors in Hadith collection process. Many hadiths were added/fabricated to please the Ummayads and Abassids.

Jai
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun May 17, 2015 1:41 pm

Re: Abu Talib a.s.: Bohras v/s non-Islamic

#34

Unread post by Jai » Tue Sep 15, 2015 4:57 pm

It is very unfortunate that some of our muslim brothers consider Hadrat Abu Talib a.s kafir (nauzobillah ) based on some traditions like ( did not recite kalma ) and derive the conclusion therefore he died as kafir (nauzobillah). It is very sad that the person who suffered lot of hardship for the cause of islam and promised his unconditional support to the Prophet sws till his last breath is being called kafir by some muslims.
Just few questions I had in my mind and want help in understanding them.
Is reciting kalima prerequisite to become a muslim unless you are a kafir?
There is a hadith which says that "every child in born on the nature of islam (Muslim/monotheistic). Then his parents make him jew, christian or magian and the hadith continues"
So it is only must for a kafir or mushrik to recite kalima to revert back to islam.
It will be a foolish thing to ask a muslim born of muslim parents, when did you recite kalima and became muslim? He will naturally reply I was born muslim.
I was not able to find a reference so far which says Hazrat Abu Talib ever worshipped idols.
In the light of the above hadith with regards to parents converting their child to their faiths, then we must accept that Abu Taleb parented two kids one became Muhamad sws and other became Ali a.s.
Lady Asiya a.s wife of pharaoh l.a is considered one of the exalted lady in islam, but there is no evidence that she recited kalima.
We know that when the ladies in the palace of pharoah was called to breastfeed infant Musa a.s., he a.s turned his face away from all mushrika ladies and did not drink their milk. Cause it would be haram for a prophet to eat or drink of Kafir. Musa a.s being hardly 4 days old started considering halal and haram and Allah did not like and want his prophet to consume anything haram or from mushriks. Then is it possible that Allah would allow his most beloved messenger, the greatest messenger sws to feed of kafirs income and that too for more than a decade.
Allah mentions in surah Ad Duhaa 93:6 Yusuf Ali
Did He not find thee an orphan and give thee shelter (and care)?
There is no disagreement that it was none other than Abu Taleb, who gave shelter And refuge to Mohamed sws when he was orphaned at a very early age. Allah would never call an act of Kafir or mushrik His swt act.
It is well documented that the Khutbah of Nikah of Rasulallah sws and Maulatena Khadija s.a. was recited by Hazrat Abu Talib a.s.. I Would like to ask that would any muslim ever agree that his Khutbah of marriage be recited by a Kafir? (Astagfirullah)
We all know the famous hadith that Rasulallah sws said "I and Ali are from same Noor" and that Noor was transferred from one pure loin and womb to the next until it reached hazrat Abdul Muttalib a.s. from whom it was splited and was transferred to Maulana Abdulla a.s and Maulana Abu Talib a.s. Then How come Abu Talib a.s. be a kafir? (Nauzobillah)

SBM
Posts: 6444
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Abu Talib a.s.: Bohras v/s non-Islamic

#35

Unread post by SBM » Tue Sep 15, 2015 5:22 pm

^
Jai
What pile of nonsense you are talking about?
Who calls Hazarat Ali a Kafir? where did you get this one.....He was the second person to take Misaq with Prophet Mohammed, :cry: :evil:

Jai
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun May 17, 2015 1:41 pm

Re: Abu Talib a.s.: Bohras v/s non-Islamic

#36

Unread post by Jai » Tue Sep 15, 2015 6:14 pm

SBM wrote:^
Jai
What pile of nonsense you are talking about?
Who calls Hazarat Ali a Kafir? where did you get this one.....He was the second person to take Misaq with Prophet Mohammed, :cry: :evil:
Brother SBM,

Kindly read the post again before calling it a nonsense. It is not hazrat Ali ibn Abu Talib we are talking about but His A.s. Father Hazrat Abu Talib. Whose real name was Imran and was uncle of the Holy Prophet sws. According to some muslims He was kafir because and only because he did not recite kalima according to some historical narrations.(Nauzobillah) But there are other narrations which say Hz. Abu Talib recited the Kalima.

Hazrat Ali was not the second but the first who answered the call of Rasulallah s.a.w.

SBM
Posts: 6444
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Abu Talib a.s.: Bohras v/s non-Islamic

#37

Unread post by SBM » Tue Sep 15, 2015 6:54 pm

Sorry for the mis reading
But to my understanding Khadijah was the first one to take Misaq.

Jai
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun May 17, 2015 1:41 pm

Re: Abu Talib a.s.: Bohras v/s non-Islamic

#38

Unread post by Jai » Tue Sep 15, 2015 7:24 pm

SBM wrote:Sorry for the mis reading
But to my understanding Khadijah was the first one to take Misaq.
I taught you meant from the men, sorry there.