Fatimi Imams from Muslima, all others only from bondmaid!

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Munira_RV
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Fatimi Imams from Muslima, all others only from bondmaid!

#1

Unread post by Munira_RV » Fri Dec 26, 2014 11:34 am

All the Fatimi Imams are mother of proper Muslima women.

Where else all Ithna Asheri Imam's (Hazrat Musa Kazim till their last Imam) are all sons of non-Muslima bondmaid (women purchased from market or won as war booty and traded later).

anajmi
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Re: Fatimi Imams from Muslima, all others only from bondmaid

#2

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Dec 26, 2014 11:38 am

This is the same argument that the jews give when insulting the prophet (saw) and his forefathers. They claim that Isaac (as) was born from Ibrahim's (as) wife and Ismail (as) was born from a bondmaid. The prophet (saw) was from the lineage of a bondmaid. What a shame!!

Munira_RV
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Re: Fatimi Imams from Muslima, all others only from bondmaid

#3

Unread post by Munira_RV » Fri Dec 26, 2014 12:08 pm

anajmi wrote:This is the same argument that the jews give when insulting the prophet (saw) and his forefathers. They claim that Isaac (as) was born from Ibrahim's (as) wife and Ismail (as) was born from a bondmaid. The prophet (saw) was from the lineage of a bondmaid. What a shame!!
Don't worry Anajmi bhai, Jews and Christian both can be proven wrong from their own book (Old Testament) by the Bohra mumineen.

But Ithna Asheri considers as correct the argument placed by Jews and Christians, so they can save image of their Ithna Imam's!

anajmi
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Re: Fatimi Imams from Muslima, all others only from bondmaid

#4

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Dec 26, 2014 12:26 pm

What are you babbling about you moron? Whether Imams are born from bondmaids or not should not be the criteria for determining their worth. Find out if the Imam goes into hiding when the going gets tough. That is what tells you the worth of an Imam!!

Munira_RV
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Re: Fatimi Imams from Muslima, all others only from bondmaid

#5

Unread post by Munira_RV » Fri Dec 26, 2014 1:08 pm

anajmi wrote:What are you babbling about you moron? Whether Imams are born from bondmaids or not should not be the criteria for determining their worth. Find out if the Imam goes into hiding when the going gets tough. That is what tells you the worth of an Imam!!
Then why Mohamed PBUH went hiding into cave when the going got tough and kept Ali a.s. on his bed in lieu of himself to save his own life from enemies, you moron?

Bondmaid are aboriginally non-Muslima when caught in war. And non-Muslima eats & drinks prohibited matter like pork, alcohol - so their blood and flesh has part of it - a child is made of his mother material, so Imam blood/flesh cannot be made of pork & alcohol. Hence it is important that mother of Imam is Muslima or non-Muslima.

anajmi
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Re: Fatimi Imams from Muslima, all others only from bondmaid

#6

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Dec 26, 2014 1:30 pm

Then why Mohamed PBUH went hiding into cave when the going got tough and kept Ali a.s. on his bed in lieu of himself to save his own life from enemies, you moron?
An invalid comparison. He didn't stay in the cave for hundreds of years you moron!! His sons and grandsons became khalifa and went to war. The sons and grandsons of your Imams are also hiding. Infact, his entire lineage is a hiding lineage!!

Munira_RV
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Re: Fatimi Imams from Muslima, all others only from bondmaid

#7

Unread post by Munira_RV » Fri Dec 26, 2014 1:37 pm

anajmi wrote:
Then why Mohamed PBUH went hiding into cave when the going got tough and kept Ali a.s. on his bed in lieu of himself to save his own life from enemies, you moron?
An invalid comparison. He didn't stay in the cave for hundreds of years you moron!! His sons and grandsons became khalifa and went to war. The sons and grandsons of your Imams are also hiding. Infact, his entire lineage is a hiding lineage!!
Very valid comparison you moron - Mohamed PBUH did went hiding into the cave when going got tough fearing his enemies, and kept Ali a.s. in his bed-place to save his own life!

anajmi
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Re: Fatimi Imams from Muslima, all others only from bondmaid

#8

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Dec 26, 2014 1:40 pm

An invalid comparison. He didn't stay in the cave for hundreds of years you moron!! His sons and grandsons became khalifa and went to war. The sons and grandsons of your Imams are also hiding. Infact, his entire lineage is a hiding lineage!!

Munira_RV
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Re: Fatimi Imams from Muslima, all others only from bondmaid

#9

Unread post by Munira_RV » Fri Dec 26, 2014 1:51 pm

anajmi wrote:An invalid comparison. He didn't stay in the cave for hundreds of years you moron!! His sons and grandsons became khalifa and went to war. The sons and grandsons of your Imams are also hiding. Infact, his entire lineage is a hiding lineage!!
Moron, you are fool and ignorant,

The Fatimi Imam era is referred as Golden Period of Islam by Sunni and European historians. The Fatimi Imams for 250 years (more than your Wahabi) have sultanate encompassing Mecca and Medina where Friday khutba was read in the name of Fatimi Imam and for some period of time Fatimi Imam's even controlled Baghdad, the seat of your Abbasi caliph. So you moron fool, not all the Fatimi Imams were in hiding.

And the point to note is: Mohamed PBUH DID went to hiding fearing for his life, and so did your Abu Bakr who too went into hiding fearing for life along with Prophet PBUH.

anajmi
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Re: Fatimi Imams from Muslima, all others only from bondmaid

#10

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Dec 26, 2014 1:55 pm

Prophet (saw) went into hiding, came out of hiding, conquered Mecca. Abu Bakr (ra) went into hiding, came out of hiding, became khalifa. Your Imam went into hiding, remained in hiding, died in hiding, his next generation remained in hiding, died in hiding, his next generation....... still hiding!!!

Munira_RV
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Re: Fatimi Imams from Muslima, all others only from bondmaid

#11

Unread post by Munira_RV » Fri Dec 26, 2014 2:01 pm

anajmi wrote:Prophet (saw) went into hiding, came out of hiding, conquered Mecca. Abu Bakr (ra) went into hiding, came out of hiding, became khalifa. Your Imam went into hiding, remained in hiding, died in hiding, his next generation remained in hiding, died in hiding, his next generation....... still hiding!!!
To begin with beginning, Mohamed PBUH and Abu Bakr did went into hiding to save their life when the going got tough, and Mohamed PBUH placed Ali a.s. over his bed in lieu of himself to save his (Mohamed PBUH) own life.

anajmi
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Re: Fatimi Imams from Muslima, all others only from bondmaid

#12

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Dec 26, 2014 3:02 pm

Let me repeat.

Prophet (saw) went into hiding, came out of hiding, conquered Mecca. Abu Bakr (ra) went into hiding, came out of hiding, became khalifa. Your Imam went into hiding, remained in hiding, died in hiding, his next generation remained in hiding, died in hiding, his next generation....... still hiding!!!

There is no comparison. In fact, I don't think your Imam is hiding. I believe he has run away. He has disappeared.

Munira_RV
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Re: Fatimi Imams from Muslima, all others only from bondmaid

#13

Unread post by Munira_RV » Fri Dec 26, 2014 4:42 pm

anajmi wrote:Let me repeat.

Prophet (saw) went into hiding, came out of hiding, conquered Mecca. Abu Bakr (ra) went into hiding, came out of hiding, became khalifa. Your Imam went into hiding, remained in hiding, died in hiding, his next generation remained in hiding, died in hiding, his next generation....... still hiding!!!

There is no comparison. In fact, I don't think your Imam is hiding. I believe he has run away. He has disappeared.
But Mohamed PBUH did went into hiding.

The 7th Imam Mohamed Shakir a.s. went into concealment and next three Imam remained concealed, the 11th Imam Mehdi a.s. broken the concealment and made himself public, then 21st Imam Tayyeb a.s. went into concealment. 19th Dai Syyedna Idris a.q. in his epic work Uyunal Akhbar have named 46 Imam's in his book.

So you are incorrect that after going into concealment they never became public.
Find out if the Imam goes into hiding when the going gets tough. That is what tells you the worth of an Imam!!
Moron Anajmi, you wrote above quoted text - on it I am reminding you that Mohamed PBUH too went hiding.

anajmi
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Re: Fatimi Imams from Muslima, all others only from bondmaid

#14

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Dec 26, 2014 4:48 pm

Your Imam didn't go into hiding. He ran away. He disappeared. He abandoned you. You don't have an Imam and you don't have a Dai.

fiate2000
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Re: Fatimi Imams from Muslima, all others only from bondmaid

#15

Unread post by fiate2000 » Fri Dec 26, 2014 7:19 pm

Munira ben
Imam Zainul Abedin's mother was a bondmaid and was a non muslim Persian until she married Imam Hussein. So you are belittling the birth of Imam Zainul Abedin by quoting such nonsense as below

Bondmaid are aboriginally non-Muslima when caught in war. And non-Muslima eats & drinks prohibited matter like pork, alcohol - so their blood and flesh has part of it - a child is made of his mother material, so Imam blood/flesh cannot be made of pork & alcohol. Hence it is important that mother of Imam is Muslima or non-Muslima.[/quote]

Also Rasool allah and Abu bakar went into hiding for the sake of Islam, THis is also mentioned in the Quran in, Surah Al-Layl

If you help him (Muhammad SAW) not (it does not matter), for Allah did indeed help him when the disbelievers drove him out, the second of two, when they (Muhammad SAW and Abu Bakr) were in the cave, and he (SAW) said to his companion (Abu Bakr): “Be not sad (or afraid), surely Allah is with us.” Then Allah sent down His Sakeenah (calmness, tranquillity, peace, etc.) upon him, and strengthened him with forces (angels) which you saw not, and made the word of those who disbelieved the lowermost, while it was the Word of Allah that became the uppermost, and Allah is All-Mighty, All-Wise.

As for your last Imam who went into hiding to avoid danger, then the question remains : WHY IS HE STILL HIDING ?? Why is he scared to reveal himself now? In fact during this crucial and controversial time when people are divided over Nass, why does he not come and show you the right path? and your rightful Dai. With due respect, stop ridiculing yourself by posting rubbish and garbage and asking irrelevant and insignificant questions. You even dare to open a new discussion!! and if it were not for the love of the prophet I wouldn't be wasting my time on you.

Abuzer
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Re: Fatimi Imams from Muslima, all others only from bondmaid

#16

Unread post by Abuzer » Sat Dec 27, 2014 1:39 am

Iblis had superiority complex and today few people have same.

hame uncha hame paak bija nicha bija napak?

if bondmaid were so bad why they were even taken as war booty, why they use to cook food for Imam? why they use to be in khidmat of Imam if they were eating pork and drinking alcohol?

Munira_RV
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Re: Fatimi Imams from Muslima, all others only from bondmaid

#17

Unread post by Munira_RV » Sat Dec 27, 2014 7:59 am

anajmi wrote:Your Imam didn't go into hiding. He ran away. He disappeared. He abandoned you. You don't have an Imam and you don't have a Dai.
As per Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim: 2nd ran away from war of Khaibar, that is called "ran away".

When Prophet PBUH died instead of being at side of Prophet PBUH your 1-2-3 disappeared to plot coup and come to power. That is called "disappear".

When Ithna Asheri's 11th Imam Hasan Askari died childless his line of Imamat has abandoned all previous people who believed in their line of Imamat.

After Prophet PBUH for next five hundred and fifty years we received the guidance from Imam, till the 21st Imam Tayyeb a.s. went into seclusion. But look at you and alike - you followed those three who were NOT authorised by Prophet PBUH to become his successor or caliph. Leave aside us Shia's literature, you and alike failed to even cite one tradition from your own Sihah Sitta books that says that Prophet has appointed 1-2-3 to be representative of Islam or caliph after him. You are running on path astray beginning from the death of Prophet PBUH.

Imam Tayyeb a.s. at the time of seclusion did have his own sultanate in Yemen. For several scores of years after his seclusion the Friday Khutba in Yemen was recited in the name of Fatimi Imams a.s. - so when Imam go into concealment despite having the sultanate in Yemen, his action is called only concealment and not ran away.

You cannot disprove the presence of Fatimi Imam.

We prove his presence from your own Sahih Bukhari and Muslim - that says that Prophet Mohamed PBUH said, Imam Mahdi will come from progeny of my daughter Fatima. One can only give that thing which one owns, so in this generation there must be son from the progeny of Fatima a.s. bint Mohamed PBUH who owns the title of Imam, when he dies he will pass it to his son, and this chain reaches to Mahdi who will be bestowed Imamat by his (Imam) father.

Munira_RV
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Re: Fatimi Imams from Muslima, all others only from bondmaid

#18

Unread post by Munira_RV » Sat Dec 27, 2014 8:09 am

Fiate2000,

Molatina Banu a.q. w/o Imam Hussain a.s. was Muslima and not bondmaid. So Imam Ali Zain ul-Abideen a.s. was son of Muslima mother.

Ithna Asheri's have peculiar habit of pulling down dignified authority peak to valley! - They consider Prophet Mohamed PBUH as son of bondmaid and cite the Old Testament acknowledging the stand of Jews and Christians. [BTW that tradition is proven forged/false by Dawoodi Bohras there by falsifying Christians and Ithna Asheri alike]. Status of Ali a.s. was superior than his both son so he is above the rank of Imamat, to make your Imamat count at 12, you pulled down Ali a.s. from rank of Walayat to that of Imamat.

And now pulling Imam Ali Zain al-Abideen from son of Muslima mother to that of bondmaid mother!!!

Corrupt people (Marja who eats 20% Khums every year without giving accounts) don't feel shame to pull anyone (Mohamed PBUH, Ali a.s., Zain al-Abideen a.s.) down to justify their wrong act.

qutub_mamajiwala
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Re: Fatimi Imams from Muslima, all others only from bondmaid

#19

Unread post by qutub_mamajiwala » Sat Dec 27, 2014 9:30 am

can u plz explain how maulatena shere banu was muslim before?
she belonged to persia and when persia was conquered by ali, she became muslim
this is accepted fact. prove it otherwise

Munira_RV
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Re: Fatimi Imams from Muslima, all others only from bondmaid

#20

Unread post by Munira_RV » Sat Dec 27, 2014 10:26 am

qutub_mamajiwala wrote:can u plz explain how maulatena shere banu was muslim before?
she belonged to persia and when persia was conquered by ali, she became muslim
this is accepted fact. prove it otherwise
For your mis-perceived "fact" - where is the proof? And asking me for the same!

Nevertheless, here is my proof: Refer book: Mausam-i-Bahār by Muhammad Ali ibn Jiwabhai, Volume - 2nd.

anajmi
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Re: Fatimi Imams from Muslima, all others only from bondmaid

#21

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Dec 27, 2014 1:06 pm

You cannot disprove the presence of Fatimi Imam.
You cannot disprove the presence of Lord Voldemort or the three headed Dog Cerberus either!!
so in this generation there must be son from the progeny of Fatima a.s. bint Mohamed PBUH who owns the title of Imam,
Yes, the king of Jordan is your Imam.

humanbeing
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Re: Fatimi Imams from Muslima, all others only from bondmaid

#22

Unread post by humanbeing » Sun Dec 28, 2014 4:00 am

Munira_RV wrote:Where else all Ithna Asheri Imam's (Hazrat Musa Kazim till their last Imam) are all sons of non-Muslima bondmaid (women purchased from market or won as war booty and traded later).
Is buying women slaves or keeping POWs as concubines; Islamic, moral, legal, ethical ?

Munira_RV
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Re: Fatimi Imams from Muslima, all others only from bondmaid

#23

Unread post by Munira_RV » Sun Dec 28, 2014 5:42 am

humanbeing wrote:
Munira_RV wrote:Where else all Ithna Asheri Imam's (Hazrat Musa Kazim till their last Imam) are all sons of non-Muslima bondmaid (women purchased from market or won as war booty and traded later).
Is buying women slaves or keeping POWs as concubines; Islamic, moral, legal, ethical ?
Yes, they are Islamic, which means ethical and moral, and during the Islamic rule they are legal. Remember only those non-Muslima can be made bondmaid who were arrested during/after the holy war they waged against Islam and defended by rightful Imam.

Marrying them too is allowed, post their conversion into Islam. But in context of Imam - he is the perfect human. He cannot be made of (blood and flesh) from mother whose own flesh/blood is made from haram food and drink (as non-Muslims dietary are not regulated by Islamic laws and they approve the eating/drinking of many things prohibited by Islam).

qutub_mamajiwala
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Re: Fatimi Imams from Muslima, all others only from bondmaid

#24

Unread post by qutub_mamajiwala » Sun Dec 28, 2014 5:57 am

Munira_RV wrote:
qutub_mamajiwala wrote:can u plz explain how maulatena shere banu was muslim before?
she belonged to persia and when persia was conquered by ali, she became muslim
this is accepted fact. prove it otherwise
For your mis-perceived "fact" - where is the proof? And asking me for the same!

Nevertheless, here is my proof: Refer book: Mausam-i-Bahār by Muhammad Ali ibn Jiwabhai, Volume - 2nd.
there is no time to read
can u just explain what is in it?
the history we know is maulatena shehre banu was princess of king of persia.
and hence zorastrian.
what is written in the book that makes her muslim by birth.
u can enlighten us on this instead of giving reference of books

Munira_RV
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Re: Fatimi Imams from Muslima, all others only from bondmaid

#25

Unread post by Munira_RV » Sun Dec 28, 2014 6:23 am

qutub_mamajiwala wrote:
Munira_RV wrote: For your mis-perceived "fact" - where is the proof? And asking me for the same!

Nevertheless, here is my proof: Refer book: Mausam-i-Bahār by Muhammad Ali ibn Jiwabhai, Volume - 2nd.
there is no time to read
can u just explain what is in it?
the history we know is maulatena shehre banu was princess of king of persia.
and hence zorastrian.
what is written in the book that makes her muslim by birth.
u can enlighten us on this instead of giving reference of books
Please explain:

(1) Firaun's (enemy of Moses) wife Asiyah - per your line of logic and perception she should be Kafir like her husband, why was she Muslima, indeed one of the great Muslima ever born? Hence proved, your perception is incorrect, in the house of the leader of Kafir, his immediate relative can be Muslima like Asiyah was. Likewise in the house of the King of Persia, his daughter Molatina Shahr Banu can be and was Muslima.

(2) As per book, 'Ahsanul Kasas', wife of First notified Mola Ali a.s. about plot hatched by her husband to assassin him. She should be perceived like her husband is perceived but she did contrary of her perception, why?

(3) Queen Zubaida wife of Abbasi caliph (on whose name the river Zubaida is) - she notified 7th Fatimi Imam Mohammad Shakir a.s. ibn Imam Ismail a.s. ibn Imam Jaffer Sadiq a.s. about the plot hatched by his evil husband to assassin the rightful Imam Mohammad Shakir a.s. - as per your line of logic she should do like her husband but why did she acted contrary to perception?

Hence, your perception is incorrect that because Molatina Shahar Banu father was non-believer so did his daughter! In light of above three examples it is proved that there can be cases where the immediate relative of the leader of Kafir can be Muslima, so did Molatina Shahar Banu.

ghulam muhammed
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Re: Fatimi Imams from Muslima, all others only from bondmaid

#26

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sun Dec 28, 2014 6:43 pm

For people with unbiased mind set and who have the ability to "Think", not for transgenders who spew venom :-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHzZRrlZTr8#t=349

Munira_RV
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Re: Fatimi Imams from Muslima, all others only from bondmaid

#27

Unread post by Munira_RV » Mon Dec 29, 2014 8:02 am

ghulam muhammed wrote:For people with unbiased mind set and who have the ability to "Think", not for transgenders who spew venom :-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHzZRrlZTr8#t=349
Gholam Mohamed, please "Think" -

1. Should there been love between Ahlulbayt and 1-2-3, then as per your line of argument - why Abu Bakr, Umar and Usman not named any of their sons and daughters or grandsons and granddaughters after the name of Ali, Fatima, Hasan and Hussain? This means there was no love between them.

2. 'Abu Bakr' is not name, it is title (kuniyat), his name before conversion was Ateeq, and after conversion was Abdullah. If Mola Ali a.s. wants to name his son after him, he would have named them Ateeq or Abdullah.

3. Was there only one Abu Bakr? There is no evidence in Sunni books of Sihah Sitta that says Ali named his son after your Abu Bakr.

4. 'Umar bin Mukarim' was son of Sayyeda Umme Salma w/o Mohamed PBUH from her previous marriage. He was very loyal to Mola Ali a.s. He was placed at front line in the battle of Jamal and battle of Siffin. He was also made Governor of Bahrain by Mola Ali a.s. - Mola Ali a.s. could have named his son after this Umar.

Again there is not a single tradition in the book of Sunni's Sihah Sitta that says that Ali kept his son name Umar after the name of Umar bin Khattab.

5. Ditto for Usman, no tradition present in the books of Sunni Sihah Sitta says that Mola Ali a.s. kept his son name after 3rd king Usman bin Affan. Mola Ali a.s. could name his son Usman after the name of 'Usman bin Mafoon', he was the 14th revert to Islam, very sincere ashab of Prophet PBUH, he was so sincere that even during the time of Jahiliyat he didn't drank alcohol.

Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim quoted many traditions saying, Molatina Fatima a.s. bint Prophet Mohamed PBUH was so much ANGRY with Abu Bakr that she willed to her husband Ameer-al-Mumineen Mola Ali a.s. that Abu Bakr should not participate in her funeral prayers. And Ali did the same, even didn't notified Abu Bakr and party about the death of Fatima a.s. bint Rasoolallah PBUH. When Fatima a.s. is not even at the talking terms with Abu Bakr - only fools can believe she will give her daughter in marriage to Abu Bakr's jodidaar Umar. Should there was love between Ahlul Bayt and 1-2-3 then Fatima a.s. should not have made above will.

humanbeing
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Re: Fatimi Imams from Muslima, all others only from bondmaid

#28

Unread post by humanbeing » Tue Dec 30, 2014 3:53 am

Munira_RV wrote:
humanbeing wrote: Is buying women slaves or keeping POWs as concubines; Islamic, moral, legal, ethical ?
Yes, they are Islamic, which means ethical and moral, and during the Islamic rule they are legal. Remember only those non-Muslima can be made bondmaid who were arrested during/after the holy war they waged against Islam and defended by rightful Imam.

Marrying them too is allowed, post their conversion into Islam. But in context of Imam - he is the perfect human. He cannot be made of (blood and flesh) from mother whose own flesh/blood is made from haram food and drink (as non-Muslims dietary are not regulated by Islamic laws and they approve the eating/drinking of many things prohibited by Islam).
Wow ! that is quiet sick to know. can anyone from any school of islammic thought put some light on these ....

Sounds very brahminish from the caste system prevailed in India. these brahmins could fornicate with lower caste women and not obliged to marry them. Isnt quran against fornicators ? Isnt Islam against slavery ? and more as such keeping women as concubines or bondmaids however they were enslaved !! Does it not violate women's sanctity ? men had wars and women suffered sex slavery,, where is the justice ?

After all the above drama, if one embraces Islam, still they are not pure enough to give an Imam. Isnt everyone equal in front of allah, hopefully at least the muslims !!

So much for the compassion in the faith eh !! anyone, please correct me...

kimanumanu
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Re: Fatimi Imams from Muslima, all others only from bondmaid

#29

Unread post by kimanumanu » Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:08 am

Isn't the above what those IS guys are claiming too?

KA786110
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Re: Fatimi Imams from Muslima, all others only from bondmaid

#30

Unread post by KA786110 » Sat Jan 10, 2015 10:45 pm

LOL. A great example of extremists from both sides spewing out falsehoods and blasphemies. This 'Tu Tu Mein Mein' has been going on for many centuries, you will not be able to resolve it on this forum. Please keep some civility. I would like to see some of you as contestants of Bigg Boss. :-)