Phaal kholawu

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Ateka
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:26 pm

Phaal kholawu

#1

Unread post by Ateka » Wed Nov 11, 2015 5:08 pm

Phaal kholawu: I thought I might as well open a new thread
Want to know if something will happen? whether if something is right for you, or not? You immediatley get your answer. Is phaal kholawu wrong? Is it still being practised among dawoodi bohras? Is it only the bohras who practice this? is Phaal kholwa actually 'BLACK MAGIC'. If I am not wrong I think people make use of the Quran in phaal kholwa to find the answer. Enlighten please!



humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

#2

Unread post by humanbeing » Thu Nov 12, 2015 7:31 am

Phaal Kholaavu is a favorite solution to many problems amongst bohras .. this is more popular amongst wagaar region of rajasthaan. well just another adaptation to superstitious beliefs inherited from tribal legacy.

Kothar supports and encourages phaal kholaavu as just another revenue source and submission source. promote superstitious fears and dependence on clergy. fear promotes faith.

Do you believe in phaal kholaavu ?



Ateka
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:26 pm

#3

Unread post by Ateka » Fri Nov 13, 2015 9:20 am

Do I believe? dont think so. My mother used to do Phaal kholavu. But as the anwers were in either yes or no format, You would not be abe to judge the accuracy of it unless you took a different course of action or waited till the consequences proved inaccurate or otherwise . At one time i heard her saying that this pracitce was not right and from what i rem not encouraged by Dai and so she stopped. Is this practice not a form of fortune telling which is haraam in Islam? So is kothar promoting Haraam.Well! not a problem or an issue for kothar, as it is involved in many other haraam activities. But the fact is, why it has never been questioned or brought to the fore, by non beleivers is mind boggling.

i "humanbeing"]Phaal Kholaavu is a favorite solution to many problems amongst bohras .. this is more popular amongst wagaar region of rajasthaan. well just another adaptation to superstitious beliefs inherited from tribal legacy.

Kothar supports and encourages phaal kholaavu as just another revenue source and submission source. promote superstitious fears and dependence on clergy. fear promotes faith.

Do you believe in phaal kholaavu ?[/quote]



Dumbledore
Posts: 275
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2014 12:30 am

#4

Unread post by Dumbledore » Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:21 am

this is not only prcticed by Bohras but it is known as falnaama in urdu.

search on google and you will find lots of links to thia practice.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falnama

many other islamic firqaas practice this



ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

#5

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Fri Nov 13, 2015 5:50 pm

Ateka wrote:At one time i heard her saying that this pracitce was not right and from what i rem not encouraged by Dai and so she stopped.
In Mumbai, there are atleast 2 Mullas who see Phaal and there is a serpentine queue at their place (mostly women) since morning 8 am....... They are Mulla Hodeidahwala who operates from his home in Bhendi Bazar and Shk Fakhruddin Chhallawala at Buniyan bldg, Byculla, in fact Chhallawala is from the inner circle and was the one who did Mohurrum waez in Marol.



MMH
Posts: 312
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:22 pm

#6

Unread post by MMH » Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:28 pm

Ateka wrote:Phaal kholawu: I thought I might as well open a new thread
Want to know if something will happen? whether if something is right for you, or not? You immediatley get your answer. Is phaal kholawu wrong? Is it still being practised among dawoodi bohras? Is it only the bohras who practice this? is Phaal kholwa actually 'BLACK MAGIC'. If I am not wrong I think people make use of the Quran in phaal kholwa to find the answer. Enlighten please!

Phaal Jovanu is interpretation of a verse in Quran. This is done by a miyasaheb who has raza from the dai. There are miyasaheb's who master the process and guide you on what should be done next. Some miyasaheb's with time/ experience are able to read phaals very accurately. Like GM said miyasaheb chhallawala and hodeidah are revered for this skill/ ability to see phaals accurately. I don't think its black magic...

Amongst Arab's they do the 'istikharah' which is more complex, where you pray 2 rakats namaz before referring to the quran for guidance..Its been practiced by sunni/ shia muslims. They don't refer to any mullah for its interpretation..



fayyaaz
Posts: 528
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:40 pm

#7

Unread post by fayyaaz » Sat Nov 14, 2015 2:26 pm

Training also is needed in constructing a horoscope (rashi), reading palms (palmistry), reading tea leaves, reading bones etc.; and all these 'fun' practices have 'reputable' pedigrees. Even Prophet was not beyond believing in 'black magic' which can be be easily attested from a 'Sahih' hadith.

Irrationality (read 'stupidity' and 'silliness') knows no bounds in humanity. Bohras excel in that thank you very much. Silly people!



Ateka
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:26 pm

#8

Unread post by Ateka » Sat Nov 14, 2015 3:08 pm

From a recent conversation it appears that it was not the discouragement from dai, but literally speaking, someone appeared in her Dream and warned her that further use of phaal will bring bad luck for her. Her (and other Abdes) interpretation of the dream is, she has been warned for doing phaal kholawa without taking Raza for it. Since then she never attempted to Phaal and never even bothered to take Raza either.

Mmh my mom used the sahifa for faal kholawa. According to her, Saheefa with faal kholawa facilities were readily available at that time and she used it to aid herself and others.

Maybe it's not black magic but it definitely falls under the category of shirk, and is haraam.
ghulam muhammed wrote:
Ateka wrote:At one time i heard her saying that this pracitce was not right and from what i rem not encouraged by Dai and so she stopped.
In Mumbai, there are atleast 2 Mullas who see Phaal and there is a serpentine queue at their place (mostly women) since morning 8 am....... They are Mulla Hodeidahwala who operates from his home in Bhendi Bazar and Shk Fakhruddin Chhallawala at Buniyan bldg, Byculla, in fact Chhallawala is from the inner circle and was the one who did Mohurrum waez in Marol.



anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

#9

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Nov 14, 2015 4:51 pm

The prophet (saw) was affected by black magic practiced by someone else. The cure brought by Gibrael (as) was the last 2 surahs of the quran. He isn't known to have been phaal kholawing for problem solving. He used to make dua. Let us not display our ignorance time and time again by comparing actions of the prophet (saw) with idiotic and ignorant actions of the bohras you silly fools.



anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

#10

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Nov 14, 2015 4:54 pm

Istikhara is not complex. It is just 2 rakah salaah and then the dua available on the internet.



Dumbledore
Posts: 275
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2014 12:30 am

#11

Unread post by Dumbledore » Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:38 pm

anajmi wrote:Istikhara is not complex. It is just 2 rakah salaah and then the dua available on the internet.
and where "hada amal" in dua comes yiu have to give your wish and complete dua and sleep you will be guided by Allah SWT in your dream



anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

#12

Unread post by anajmi » Sun Nov 15, 2015 11:33 am

That is not true. There will be no dream. If the desire is good you will find success in it, if not you will be protected from it inshaallah.



MMH
Posts: 312
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:22 pm

#13

Unread post by MMH » Sun Nov 15, 2015 4:52 pm

anajmi wrote:Istikhara is not complex. It is just 2 rakah salaah and then the dua available on the internet.

Hi Anajmi

When I say its complex its about praying salah on your own+ praying dua+ reading and interpreting quran on your own. Its not the same as phaal jovanu where you go in namazi halat to the aamil and tell him the details and he makes you pray salawaat and then open the quran and then interpreting the quran for you for the situation which is causing you grief/ apprehension.

regards
MMH



MMH
Posts: 312
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:22 pm

#14

Unread post by MMH » Sun Nov 15, 2015 5:06 pm

Ateka wrote:From a recent conversation it appears that it was not the discouragement from dai, but literally speaking, someone appeared in her Dream and warned her that further use of phaal will bring bad luck for her. Her (and other Abdes) interpretation of the dream is, she has been warned for doing phaal kholawa without taking Raza for it. Since then she never attempted to Phaal and never even bothered to take Raza either.

Mmh my mom used the sahifa for faal kholawa. According to her, Saheefa with faal kholawa facilities were readily available at that time and she used it to aid herself and others.

Maybe it's not black magic but it definitely falls under the category of shirk, and is haraam.
ghulam muhammed wrote:
In Mumbai, there are atleast 2 Mullas who see Phaal and there is a serpentine queue at their place (mostly women) since morning 8 am....... They are Mulla Hodeidahwala who operates from his home in Bhendi Bazar and Shk Fakhruddin Chhallawala at Buniyan bldg, Byculla, in fact Chhallawala is from the inner circle and was the one who did Mohurrum waez in Marol.

I am not sure about the interpretation of her dream or referring to an abde for the interpretation. If you google for e.g 'interpretation of dreaming of a new born baby girl' there are so many schools of thoughts on what it implies but who would you consider correct and reliable...same way, how does the abde have the authority to interpret your mom's dreams?

I don't know about using sahifa being shirk but I wouldn't rely on that method to make all the decisions in life. Its weak..



Ateka
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:26 pm

#15

Unread post by Ateka » Sun Nov 15, 2015 7:14 pm

The interpretation was just a wild guess i.e they just said from the top of their head what they thought best fit the description of the dream. Secondly I did not mention the use of sahifa specifically to be haraam but the whole concept of faal and other various methods to determine the future or fortune telling to be haraam.
MMH wrote:
Ateka wrote:From a recent conversation it appears that it was not the discouragement from dai, but literally speaking, someone appeared in her Dream and warned her that further use of phaal will bring bad luck for her. Her (and other Abdes) interpretation of the dream is, she has been warned for doing phaal kholawa without taking Raza for it. Since then she never attempted to Phaal and never even bothered to take Raza either.

Mmh my mom used the sahifa for faal kholawa. According to her, Saheefa with faal kholawa facilities were readily available at that time and she used it to aid herself and others.

Maybe it's not black magic but it definitely falls under the category of shirk, and is haraam.

I am not sure about the interpretation of her dream or referring to an abde for the interpretation. If you google for e.g 'interpretation of dreaming of a new born baby girl' there are so many schools of thoughts on what it implies but who would you consider correct and reliable...same way, how does the abde have the authority to interpret your mom's dreams?

I don't know about using sahifa being shirk but I wouldn't rely on that method to make all the decisions in life. Its weak..



Biradar
Posts: 826
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

#16

Unread post by Biradar » Sun Nov 15, 2015 10:50 pm

fayyaaz wrote:Training also is needed in constructing a horoscope (rashi), reading palms (palmistry), reading tea leaves, reading bones etc.; and all these 'fun' practices have 'reputable' pedigrees. Even Prophet was not beyond believing in 'black magic' which can be be easily attested from a 'Sahih' hadith.

Irrationality (read 'stupidity' and 'silliness') knows no bounds in humanity. Bohras excel in that thank you very much. Silly people!

Hear, hear. I agree with fayyaaz, who often seems the only sensible person on this board. Sadly, all these "faal" type stuff is just folk superstition. Thats all. Nothing more. Entertaining, perhaps, but unsupportable from any rational point of view. Those who think that so-and-so "read faal accurately" are ignorant and superstitious folks, and modernity, science and technical advances have passed them by. Sad that even supposedly educated bohras fall for this mumbo-jumbo.



SincereOfHeart
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:30 am

#17

Unread post by SincereOfHeart » Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:35 am

I think lots of people here have severely misinterpreted phaal.

Let us clarify/define the practise first:
1) It is most often the process of opening the Qur'an and interpreting the ayah that first draws your eye. This is Bohra tradition and is done by people who are trained and have raza (authority to do so) from the Dai.
2) The concept of phaal is widely used day to day as well - it may be compared with the word 'omen'; it can be anything. For example, if you are going for a job interview and you pass by someone praying the azaan, you may take it as a good phaal, a good 'omen'. [br]

Now let us look to Islamic cases of history and Hadith for proof of this:
Qur'an: (56:75) I swear by the places of stars. فلا اقسم بمواقع النجوم.
On a literal (zaahir) level (excluding the inner taweel meaning of this ayah) this ayah clearly portrays the truth behind what many people in this thread are calling 'silly', 'unscientific' and 'haraam/shirk'.

Hadtih of the Prophet: الفال حق. Translated: The Phaal is truth/true. Speaks for itself really.

Narration of a dream by Imam Ali: Ali AS narrated to his two sons Hasan and Husain AS that jibreel took two stones and smashed them together, and that the bits of each stone went to each house in Kufa. Hasan AS and Husain AS asked Ali AS what the meaning of this dream is, and Ali AS told them that it was the narration of his death, that he would be killed and the sorrow of his loss would go to every house. This clearly shows that dreams and phaals (as defined above) are true and can be interpreted by those who have the authority and knowledge to do so.

Bohra books have also been written to be trained in this art, unfortunately I cannot remember which saahib wrote this, but a book called تعبير المنام (interpretation of dreams) is an example of such books.

People have also alluded to discouragement from the dai of this practise, but this has also been misquoted. The discouragement is purely present to those who live their lives with complete faith and dependence upon things like reading the stars and phaals. As the Prophet said phaals are true (above), but they are only true if one interprets them correctly. The encouragement is more to take them as an omen, helping to make decisions, rather than being the only factor to base a decision upon.