Claims of Imam-hood?

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Al-Noor
Posts: 1075
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:55 am

Re: Claims of Imam-hood?

#31

Unread post by Al-Noor » Thu Dec 31, 2015 3:28 am

zinger wrote:
Al-Noor wrote: Honest Question:

what keeps you keep going community at this moment? I mean in spiritual way? or is it labrez khaars mithaas which is hard to let it go?
1. the belief that something good is hopefully around the corner
2. a sense of belonging
3. my upbringing
4. my belief system that is a culmination about 1000 years old
5. The belief that a spiritual guide is and always will be required
if this is true then In your case SKQ is more appropriate to be followed than Mufaddal...what makes you with MS?



zinger
Posts: 1867
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

#32

Unread post by zinger » Thu Dec 31, 2015 4:01 am

Al-Noor wrote:
zinger wrote:
1. the belief that something good is hopefully around the corner
2. a sense of belonging
3. my upbringing
4. my belief system that is a culmination about 1000 years old
5. The belief that a spiritual guide is and always will be required
if this is true then In your case SKQ is more appropriate to be followed than Mufaddal...what makes you with MS?

Call it mental inertia, call it upbringing, call it societal shackles. but within, i feel Qutbuddin Maula might be the right one.

Besides, what made you think im still with Mufaddal Maula/ :wink:



Al-Noor
Posts: 1075
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:55 am

#33

Unread post by Al-Noor » Thu Dec 31, 2015 4:19 am

Mufaddal Maula


Because if SKQ was rightful dai as per you then you would not call an imposter as maula. :roll:



zinger
Posts: 1867
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

#34

Unread post by zinger » Thu Dec 31, 2015 4:28 am

Al-Noor wrote:
Mufaddal Maula


Because if SKQ was rightful dai as per you then you would not call an imposter as maula. :roll:

there are some things that you will not understand even if i explained it to you thrice over. lets leave it at that


wish you and all at home a happy new year



Al-Noor
Posts: 1075
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:55 am

#35

Unread post by Al-Noor » Thu Dec 31, 2015 4:55 am

wish you and all at home a happy new year :wink:



Nietzsche
Posts: 129
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:14 pm

#36

Unread post by Nietzsche » Fri Jan 01, 2016 5:06 pm

So if Mufaddal Saifuddin (or the Aga Khan) can convince a whole group of pretty intelligent, hardworking people into believing that he is the Imam, then why is it so hard to believe that Muhammad could convince conflicted Arabs in an unfairly stratified society that he was the true Prophet of God, handing him considerable social and political power? #justsaying



Nietzsche
Posts: 129
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:14 pm

#37

Unread post by Nietzsche » Fri Jan 01, 2016 5:09 pm

And if you call it a matter of "faith" then why isn't the Bohras' faith as pure as yours? Belief in the face of reasonable doubt?



anajmi
Posts: 13400
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

#38

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Jan 01, 2016 9:37 pm

One is backed by principles laid down in the quran freely available with millions of translations written for and against and healthy debate ( and sometimes not so much), while the other is restricted behind closed doors in secret sabaks and threats of barat. The difference between the two are so wide and deep that only the uninitiated or the completely ignorant would make a comparison.



anajmi
Posts: 13400
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

#39

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Jan 01, 2016 9:44 pm

Also, the bohras claim to have faith in the quran. Having faith in the quran and then also having faith in the Dai is a contradiction in itself. So, ultimately, it isn't a matter of faith, but of ignorance.



alam
Posts: 712
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:15 pm

#40

Unread post by alam » Sat Jan 02, 2016 7:45 pm

Mkenya wrote: alam: I really like your post.

We know that the Dai and Kothar are in good 'form' (cricket term) and the Abdes are cheering them on wildly. The Dai has demonstrated his prowess at batting, scoring fours and fours at will. Then what?.....Wouldn't you think the Abdes' oooohing and aaaahing will start to wane? Surely the Dai cannot afford to let that happen. IPL's gimmick with cheerleaders was short lived and lost its appeal quickly. The concept of Imam is a trial balloon floated by to test the waters. How well it is received and will it be a hook-line-sinker could be a long term strategy.

alam: let us hear from you!
MKenya- thanks for your comments. No, for the SMS people the imam concept is NOT the trial baloon. SKQ is the trial balloon.

For SMS crowd, abdes will over time stop the oohing and aahing, as you call it. But lets not be under any false impression. The oohing and aahing will take different forms, as we can observe how the manifestation has changed over the last 100 years. How and when it will stop will depend on a lot of factors. Im not about to conjecture in public how it will stop. Pm me if you wish to discuss this further. This forum has unfortunately become the gauge with which The Nazis in SMS circles are monitoring the pulse of the community and the objections raised by dissenters, and then, tactically alter its modus operandi to GIVE THE appearance of cleaning up its act while in reality they are only altering strategic moves designed to garner public support and more oohs and aahs. Observe how docile Muffy has become lately in sticking to the script - and restraining himself from using his own judgement. But even he cant help himself sometimes.
Most recent example of SMS Major SNAFU was during shahaadat of Imam Husain during the urus of Smb. He completely messed it up when he went off script. Just ask those who attended.

Btw, the oohing and aahing is not unique to SMS. Try hangong out with hardcore SKQ followers. They are similar, though a bit less extreme.



Al-Noor
Posts: 1075
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:55 am

#41

Unread post by Al-Noor » Sun Jan 03, 2016 10:09 am

Nietzsche wrote:So if Mufaddal Saifuddin (or the Aga Khan) can convince a whole group of pretty intelligent, hardworking people into believing that he is the Imam, then why is it so hard to believe that Muhammad could convince conflicted Arabs in an unfairly stratified society that he was the true Prophet of God, handing him considerable social and political power? #justsaying
I hope your question is purely to learn and not to insult great prophet Muhammed(s)....there are million ways to refute you, but if you are honest in your inquiry this simple logic will suffice your question.

Agha khan and Mufaddal saifuddin are claiming Imam hood to collect billion dollars from their believers and they use these funds to live luxurious life, in their case they never face any hardship but just enjoyment.

on other hand Muhammed(s) never enjoyed any luxury in his life, barat was done on him and he lived many years under threat of his life, he had nothing to enjoy out of all this, on top of that Quran which was revealed on him is still a living miracle, you can google and find out how Quran is still new as always and not a single alphabet has been changed in it.



Mkenya
Posts: 350
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:16 am

#42

Unread post by Mkenya » Sun Jan 03, 2016 3:09 pm

Al-noor wrote:

"Aga khan and Mufaddal saifuddin are claiming Imam hood to collect billion dollars from their believers and they use these funds to live luxurious life, in their case they never face any hardship but just enjoyment".
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Aga Khan IS the 49th Imam of the Ismaili faith. Although I do not back him in any way but having physically seen, participated in, watched first hand the success of his humanitarian achievements it is far fetched to accuse him of collecting billions of dollars to fund his luxurious life. The internet has information about various institutions, foundations, museums, hospitals, humanitarian and migration assistance, etc. that he has established. Further research will reveal the extent of his personal fortune.
PLEASE DO YOUR RESEARCH BEFORE MAKING SWEEPING ALLEGATIONS.



SBM
Posts: 6162
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

#43

Unread post by SBM » Sun Jan 03, 2016 5:24 pm

Very well put Br MKenya
An Noor is CUT and PASTE artist,



Al-Noor
Posts: 1075
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:55 am

#44

Unread post by Al-Noor » Mon Jan 04, 2016 1:04 am

Mkenya wrote:Al-noor wrote:

"Aga khan and Mufaddal saifuddin are claiming Imam hood to collect billion dollars from their believers and they use these funds to live luxurious life, in their case they never face any hardship but just enjoyment".
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Aga Khan IS the 49th Imam of the Ismaili faith. Although I do not back him in any way but having physically seen, participated in, watched first hand the success of his humanitarian achievements it is far fetched to accuse him of collecting billions of dollars to fund his luxurious life. The internet has information about various institutions, foundations, museums, hospitals, humanitarian and migration assistance, etc. that he has established. Further research will reveal the extent of his personal fortune.
PLEASE DO YOUR RESEARCH BEFORE MAKING SWEEPING ALLEGATIONS.
Mr mkenya none of my post are ever posted without a research, infact I am a student of comparative religious studies from 10 years now. person who does not follow shariyat cant call him self Imam, and on top even zionists and other criminals runs many hospitals and many other schools/uni, you should consider them your imam as well. this has been discussed in details many times and I dont think I will repeat it again here, in fact I suggest you to google and find out how many vacation homes, luxurious yacht and horse breeding stables he is possessing and how community money is used by him. I was just giving reply to other poster about how Muhammed(s) had no worldly interest in proving himslef prophet. ...good luck.

MS is saint compare to agha khan extravagant lifestyle to be honest.

(Below link is just one small example of agha khan's life style)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ather.html

The Aga Khan IS the 49th Imam of the Ismaili faith.
you will surprise to know that agha khan cant even prove his claim to be related with ahlul bayt, kindly do more RESEARCH.



canadian
Posts: 292
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:57 pm

#45

Unread post by canadian » Mon Jan 04, 2016 10:02 am

^ ^
Al Noor wrote:
"Mr mkenya none of my post are ever posted without a research, infact I am a student of comparative religious studies from 10 years now."

WOW! Our resident virus is really a superman. He has multiple id’s (e.g. incredible, monginis, sufi monk, etc.); multiple residences and businesses in multiple countries; is a financial analyst; is out to teach us true Islam; went to Iraq to save the holy Shia sites from ISIL; and now confesses to be a student of comparative religious studies for over ten years!

In his “Al Noor” avatar his postings average 115 per month- no idea how many his other avatars have infested on this forum!

Wow, Mr. Al Noor you are really “incredible”.!!!



SBM
Posts: 6162
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

#46

Unread post by SBM » Mon Jan 04, 2016 1:56 pm

^^^^
Br Canadian
very soon An Noor will reveal that he is the Imam people had been looking :lol:



Biradar
Posts: 819
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

#47

Unread post by Biradar » Wed Jan 06, 2016 1:22 pm

canadian wrote:^ ^
Al Noor wrote:
"Mr mkenya none of my post are ever posted without a research, infact I am a student of comparative religious studies from 10 years now."

WOW! Our resident virus is really a superman. He has multiple id’s (e.g. incredible, monginis, sufi monk, etc.); multiple residences and businesses in multiple countries; is a financial analyst; is out to teach us true Islam; went to Iraq to save the holy Shia sites from ISIL; and now confesses to be a student of comparative religious studies for over ten years!

In his “Al Noor” avatar his postings average 115 per month- no idea how many his other avatars have infested on this forum!

Wow, Mr. Al Noor you are really “incredible”.!!!

Just for those who don't know. Al Noor suffers from what is known as Dunning-Kruger effect. It is defined as:
Dunning–Kruger wrote:The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly rating their ability much higher than average. This bias is attributed to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their mistakes.
In short, he is so stupid that he does not know he is stupid. Now, I don't mean this as a joke or an insult. Dunning and Kruger actually did a very careful study of this phenomena and published a very nice paper on it. If anyone is interested, PM me and I will send you the pdf. Incidentally, the D-K effect also applies to several others here. No need to name names.



SBM
Posts: 6162
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

#48

Unread post by SBM » Wed Jan 06, 2016 8:11 pm

^
Welcome Biradar -unfortunately you are also part of AL IGNORE Club by AN noor so he would not be able to read or so he says...



asad
Posts: 777
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:54 am

#49

Unread post by asad » Thu Jan 07, 2016 4:04 am

Birader you should write more, we sorely miss good posts in the spam infested forum these days.



SBM
Posts: 6162
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

#50

Unread post by SBM » Thu Jan 07, 2016 2:54 pm

^^
I second Asad even though in the past I and Biradar had been on opposite side



Mkenya
Posts: 350
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:16 am

#51

Unread post by Mkenya » Fri Apr 15, 2016 10:30 pm

To Alnoor and others: Clink the link below to enlighten yourselves with one of hundreds of projects established by the Aga Khan and his community. From 51st to SMS and late SKQ's appointed 53rd. cannot even 'paani bhare' to this and other projects.

http://www.busiweek.com/index1.php?Ctp= ... I=27&cI=10



Mkenya
Posts: 350
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:16 am

#52

Unread post by Mkenya » Fri Apr 15, 2016 11:33 pm

Alnoor and others: Click the link below to learn about the Aga Khan's humanitarian, medical, educational and other worthy causes.
A Gujarati proverb sums up the comparison such: "Kyaan Raja Bhoj and kyaan Gango Teli"

http://www.akdn.org/about_akdn.asp



JC
Posts: 1624
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:01 am

#53

Unread post by JC » Tue Apr 19, 2016 2:54 pm

Leadership is NOT the sole right of Imam or the descendants of Hazrat Ali. A person whosoever he/she is if works for the betterment of human beings can 'lead' .......... Aga Khan has been really doing good for his people, so he is rightly a great leader (you can call Imam or whatever you want to).

All claims to 'Imam-hood' or leadership are false if you can help and guide your people to right path; not only to the right path but one should see improvement in their lives as a group or community or society or country.

The true identification of a great leader is not only in his following or how much vote bank he has but in his capabilities of making and fostering more leaders ............. true leader breeds leaders! (and this does not mean an Imam preparing his son to be the next and so on so forth).



salim
Posts: 400
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 4:01 am

#54

Unread post by salim » Tue Apr 19, 2016 11:03 pm

Yes, leadership is not a sole right of Imam. Jews and Koreans in US do not have any imam, but they do very well. Much better than any Muslim communities.

A "healthy" competition between communities is always helpful for everyone.

Ismail community is currently going through a lot of challenges which are much bigger than they have solved in the past. On one hand hundreds of thousands of Arab Ismailis have become homeless in syria, on other hand thousands and thousands of central Asian Ismailis are living in places where the climate change can bring natural disaster that could wipe out entire town in one blow.

Currently the world has recovered from recession and have seen modest recovery and expansion. We are "probably" around 3 - 4 years away from another recession. In this period of cycle, usually in the past Ismaili institutions had made themselves strong and were on the path of becoming very strong so that, so that when recession hits they would be able to provide needed support.

But this time ismaili institutions have not even started on their path for preparing themselves from another recession. They are busy, helping whatever they can with all their resources to the people of Syria and getting climate change prone areas of central asian ismailis ready for natural disaster.

With this exercise Focus has become very strong http://www.akdn.org/focus and is ready to help ismailis and non-ismailis from natural calamities, but we have not started preparing for next recession cycle. We have no solution for the people of syria yet.

Ismailis need more good leaders, Muslim Ummah need more good leaders, world need more good leaders.