Dawoodi Bohra History & Doctrines

[SBM]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjlsY8CA ... e=youtu.be

[progressivebohra]

Well thought through and un baised. Thanks

[porus]

A personal but very informative view of the history Shia Islam, Fatimids and Bohras from a highly respected academic.

The Youtube video has an 'Introduction' without picture. After the 'Introduction', we see Dr Ismail Poonawala talking for nearly 90 minutes. Dr Poonawala has translated Daaimul Islam into English and is the author of many books and articles on Ismailies and Bohras.

Old-timers on this forum will recognize the issues he raises that have been discussed here at length in the past. His views on isma and taawil are noteworthy. I personally have different views on these issues.

A very worthy effort identifying the factors that led to a once amorphous community united by orthodox Fatimid beliefs and shared traditions being turned into a centrally controlled cult: the cult which transforms beliefs to suit its leaders' agenda to amass wealth and power while discouraging any independent scholarship of the Fatimid and Bohra literary treasure through cultivating ignorance and human-worship.

[badrijanab]

First 90 minutes of 105 minutes are totally pack of lies, rubbish and misrepresentation. Ismail Poonawala is mentored by Maloon Zahid Hyedrabad wala (laanat); hardcore liar and an staunch enemy of Fatimi imams.

[porus]

You always find adherents of a one-sided view of history rubbish other views of it, calling them liars etc.

I find a person more credible when he presents multiple views but does not come down on one side or another. And if he does, he mentions his reasons for doing so. On that score, Dr Poonawala has delivered a splendid talk. He states his personal view of history.

Take the example of Ghadeer-e-Khum. There are historical narratives that support the Shia view and there are those supports the Sunni view. One can support either view without being a Shia or Sunni, weighing scholarly evidence.

However, if you choose to be brain-washed into what you have been told in childhood, you will simply enter an unworthy emotional blame game. That is not an educated stance.

[SBM]

First 90 minutes of 105 minutes are totally pack of lies, rubbish and misrepresentation. Ismail Poonawala is mentored by Maloon Zahid Hyedrabad wala (laanat); hardcore liar and an staunch enemy of Fatimi imams.

With this post you proved that there is no difference between you and the people you have been accusing like occupants of Saifee Mahal
You used the same laanats on Muslims as they do on their so called Dushmans like Peerbhai and others.

[ghulam muhammed]

Any person expressing views contrary to that of badrijanab's guru Shk Ahmed Ali Raj is a Liar and deserves laanats, he is a brainwashed bigot who refuses to confront the truth as truth is always bitter.

[badrijanab]

I find a person more credible when he presents multiple views but does not come down on one side or another. And if he does, he mentions his reasons for doing so. On that score, Dr Poonawala has delivered a splendid talk. He states his personal view of history.

However, if you choose to be brain-washed into what you have been told in childhood, you will simply enter an unworthy emotional blame game. That is not an educated stance.

Dr. Poonwala sahab presented only single dimension view of Sunni historian and not presented the Fatimi/Ismaili version of history, so Dr. Poonawala is not credible person.

Some examples of his single sided (corrupted) lies which he label as "Bohra History" to con, misrepresent and mislead Bohras:

1. Mola Ali a.s. tendered misaaq to 1, 2, & 3. [This is Sunni version of history, per Bohras (correct) version it was otherwise. But Poonawala never presented the Bohra version!!!]

2. Per us, 2nd murdered Molatina Fatima a.s. - will Mola Ali a.s. marry his daughter to murderor of his beloved wife?!!! But Poonawala sahab only presented Sunni version and tried to show Bohra maslaq in bad light (illogical/false). So Dr. Poonwala sahab did "baimani".

3. Dr. Poonawala made derogatory remarks against Fatimi Imams. He is minting money by translating Ismaili literature into English and over same Ismaili Imam's he is spitting venom!!! This in desi parlance is called "Namak Harami".

@SBM sahab - I sent lanat on Zahid Ali Hayderabadi because he deserve so like Allah sent laanat on different people and in Daimul Islam refers Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w. implicitly sending laanat on your trio (new found deities). Besides this post, I've previously also suggested to you: make your argument more appealing by being objective (presenting/quoting aayat, hadees, books) than being subjective and getting personal. BTW should you like to know who was maloon Zahid Ali and why I sent laanat on him - I can send you the pertinent literature (if in case you know to read Urdu), PM me if you wish. Or if you do not know Urdu then ask why am I sending laanat on Zahid Ali. But without knowing the complete story, just for the sake of opposing me; don't jump to conclusion (unreasonably criticise me).

[ghulam muhammed]

in Daimul Islam refers Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w. implicitly sending laanat on your trio (new found deities).

Could you please provide details, it would be interesting !!

[SBM]

1. Mola Ali a.s. tendered misaaq to 1, 2, & 3. [This is Sunni version of history, per Bohras (correct) version it was otherwise. But Poonawala never presented the Bohra version!!!]

Badrijanab
I did not that there was such thing as BOHRA at the time of Moula Ali and 1.2.3 unless you forgot to put 5 in front of 1.2. and 3
And also which BOHRA Maslaq are you talking the one by Kothari Goons or the one your PRISTINE BOHRA which no one knows who leads and how many members follow that. YOUR PRISTINE BOHRA MASLAQ SEEMS TO BE HIDING MORE DEEPLY THEN THE HIDDEN IMAM OF SHIAS.

[SBM]

I sent lanat on Zahid Ali Hayderabadi because he deserve so like Allah sent laanat on different people

So now you are taking the place of Allah, I thought only Allah can judge people by sending Rehmat or Lanaat , when did you get that permission from your PRISTINE LEADER?
And so for your other advice, I am not interested in reading your hate filled posts, like I always said, I do not judge people and that includes all the Khalifas, I will let Allah decided everyone's fate on judgement day. I have not uttered lanat on Kothari Goons either despite all the despicable things they have done (now do not ask me about my position on Yazid- it is my personal belief and I have no desire to share with you or anyone, since Yazid does not fall in the same category of Khalifas). FYI I do read Urdu very well and I consider it my mother tongue.
Do you any proof if Moula Ali dis-obeyed the 3 Khalifas and their rules. If Moula Ali did not oppose the rulings of those 3 Khalifas that implies that he did not oppose their rules, he may have disagreed with them but he did not go to war with them and did not humiliate them or their authority publicly.

[Azmira]

Salaam Alaikum to all

I had a question in mind of which I am trying to find an answer since couple of days , thankfully I came across this group and hope will find a correct answer here .

As per bohras doctrine there is a 21 imam , imam Tayyeb who is in occultation and someone from his progeny will reappear one day . I wanted know how in the twelver shia faith , they have signs of reappearance of their 12 th imam who is in occultation and will reappear one day as per their doctrine , what I mean by signs of reappearance is that , there are signs or events that are mentionned in the Hadith which gives a signal that the reappearance of the 12 th imam is soon, so I wanted to know as there signs of reappearance in bohras faith as well ?

[Azmira]

As* are

[badrijanab]

so I wanted to know as there signs of reappearance in bohras faith as well ?

Yes

[Azmira]

Salaam Alaikum

Thank you brother for your answer . Can you prove it brother ? May also know all the signs of appearance that exist?

JazakAllah for your time and cooperation

[S. Insaf]

Brother porus wrote that:
A personal but very informative view of the history Shia Islam, Fatimids and Bohras from a highly respected academic.
The Youtube video has an 'Introduction' without picture.

‘Introduction’ of Prof. Ismail Poonawala was done by Mr. Shabbir Husain Madraswala; I do not know why he preferred to blank the ‘Introduction’ portion.

[anajmi]

On the above video, if you look at the comments by this person "110alihz" you will find that 110alihz is none other than our very own badrijanab bhai.

[anajmi]

Bro S. Insaf,

I don't think there was any reason for the blank introduction. It was probably a mistake where they forgot to remove the camera lense cap.