Bohra succession chain should be stopped now

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thinkagain
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2014 9:43 pm

Re: Bohra succession chain should be stopped now

#31

Unread post by thinkagain » Tue Jul 08, 2014 7:19 am

rather then lamenting why not ourselves change?

garibmumin
Posts: 52
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2014 4:53 am

Re: Bohra succession chain should be stopped now

#32

Unread post by garibmumin » Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:09 pm

Inshallah change is at hand and will set us free Ameen

WiththenameofAllah
Posts: 230
Joined: Sat May 24, 2014 9:13 am

Re: Bohra succession chain should be stopped now

#33

Unread post by WiththenameofAllah » Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:30 pm

Ameen ! Garib mumin May Allah listen to you.

garibmumin
Posts: 52
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2014 4:53 am

Re: Bohra succession chain should be stopped now

#34

Unread post by garibmumin » Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:34 pm

I believe change first emanates from within.

Bohra spring
Posts: 1270
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am

Re: Bohra succession chain should be stopped now

#35

Unread post by Bohra spring » Mon Jul 14, 2014 12:03 pm

silvertongue wrote:And as far as the Sons of our Nabi a.s are concerned, Allah did gave a choice between his elder son and Fatema a.s to which Nabi a.s. chose Fatema a.s.. .
What was the elder son's name who would have succeeded him and what happened to him when he did not inherit succession ? So literally he made a choice that The son was not to succeed his position ?

This the first time I have heard this statement in my life that he had a choice of succession between A son and someone.

Note I know many sons died at infancy and Allah knows best the motive, I don't want to repeat or propagate speculations.

This succession theory has really sent us into disintegration all the way into current times that one wonders whether it has done more harm then good . But in view of all evidences of its destructive "doctrine" we are happy to make it the most important.

garibmumin
Posts: 52
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2014 4:53 am

Re: Bohra succession chain should be stopped now

#36

Unread post by garibmumin » Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:39 am

Are you talking about Zaid bin Harith?

garibmumin
Posts: 52
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2014 4:53 am

Re: Bohra succession chain should be stopped now

#37

Unread post by garibmumin » Sun Jul 20, 2014 1:50 pm

Bohra spring,
I really did not understand your last message , it seems interesting though

JavedhJuma
Posts: 403
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:47 pm

Re: Bohra succession chain should be stopped now

#38

Unread post by JavedhJuma » Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:51 pm

garibmumin wrote:Are you talking about Zaid bin Harith?
Prophet's son's name was Ibrahim.

silvertongue
Posts: 578
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:34 am

Re: Bohra succession chain should be stopped now

#39

Unread post by silvertongue » Wed Jul 23, 2014 5:10 am

His name was Ibrahim as Javedhjuma mentioned. Zaid Ibn Harith was regarded as his son.

silvertongue
Posts: 578
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:34 am

Re: Bohra succession chain should be stopped now

#40

Unread post by silvertongue » Wed Jul 23, 2014 5:15 am

What was the elder son's name who would have succeeded him and what happened to him when he did not inherit succession ? So literally he made a choice that The son was not to succeed his position ?
If you will look at this just historically then you will reach at any point of understanding why Nabi a.s chose Fatima a.s. above his elder son. Islam is not just based on history but spirituality as well. There is Destiny and Allah's plan to make sure the light of Islam is alive till the Day of Judgement. I dont want to discuss all that in public coz I know many just need a chance to add fuel to the fire or make a joke of it. So better leave it.

morela
Posts: 183
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:21 pm

Re: Bohra succession chain should be stopped now

#41

Unread post by morela » Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:48 am

silver tounge

Allah himself will prolong the light of ISLAM , Islam being a final message , the final message itself is potent enough to live till the end.

silvertongue
Posts: 578
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:34 am

Re: Bohra succession chain should be stopped now

#42

Unread post by silvertongue » Wed Jul 30, 2014 7:08 am

Allah himself will prolong the light of ISLAM
Allah personally wont come to spread the light bro. Thats why he sent 124000 prophets to stone hearted people and for their benefits. But some of them still stick to their ancient devilish beliefs denying Allah's authorized person and reciting chants like Iblees.

"Allah ko to maante ho, Par Kya Allah KI maante ho?.. - Silvertongue.

morela
Posts: 183
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:21 pm

Re: Bohra succession chain should be stopped now

#43

Unread post by morela » Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:59 pm

Yes, but now prophet hood and all divine messages have ended since Muhammad pbuh. And this is why we only need to follow Quran and sunnah

silvertongue
Posts: 578
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:34 am

Re: Bohra succession chain should be stopped now

#44

Unread post by silvertongue » Thu Aug 07, 2014 1:45 am

Sunnah, everyone has a different sunnah view my frnd... Who knows which ones right. That gives us a title of Gumrah if we only follow the sunnah which mullas tell us. The best way to find the true sunnah is to follow the examples of those closest to the prophet. Any why do we need to find who is more closest, when the prophet himself said that Follow Quran and My Ahlul Bayt, why? coz they are the living sunnah of the prophet. They have left us the sunnahs and narrations. But the thing is whatever differs from our daily practices we give em a title of fabrication or not authentic and blah blah stuff. That hurts our ego right.. Well, if sunnah is to be followed, I follow Ali a.s coz as far as I know no ones the biggest sunni as Ali a.s.

morela
Posts: 183
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:21 pm

Re: Bohra succession chain should be stopped now

#45

Unread post by morela » Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:35 am

The dispute BETWEEN us was and is never about the progeny of prophet pbuh(Ahlebayt) . The dispute IS about who has the authentic teachings of the progeny preserved to this day. Only a claim is not enough. We have a meticulous science of hadith which ensures that all sayings of the Arch Ahlebayt propeht pbuh have reached us "AS IS". Shias esp Ismailis have no such science due to their reliance on the fanciful theory of Infallible Imams, esotericism and taweel. Its a good theory but it has been proved to not work as the Imam himself has disappared\killed\defaulted etc and one Imam Moiz even converted to coptic Christianity and his baptistry is present to this day , with each sect claiming they have the correct imam or representative. Even daimul Islam is a poor work when it come to sourcing its claims. And various Ismaili sects have difference of opinions on this book itself.
The problem with Daimul Islam is the absence of Ilmul Rijaal (history of narrators) in Daimul Islam. DaimulIslam is just a book of fiqh and not a book of hadith.People do find fiqh interesting but the fiqh should be based on authentic hadith.
Daimul Islam does not even attempt to go into that direction of validating the hadith.It is not even in the domain of a fiqh book to go into this detail. The hadith quoted in daimul Islam dont have the chain of narrators or the reference base. Infact Ismaili Islam does not have a single book of validated hadith. Isna ashari do have it.
Do you know the Ismaili sect aga khani khoja is the only sect which has an unbroken chain of Imamate traceable to the final prophet pbuh to this day. But you see they have abolished namaaz, hajj etc and believe the Imam as mazhar of Allah swt. Hence you have to accept that even the proven descendants of the prophet pbuh can fall into error and misguidance as it is only Allah who guides. Hence rather then showing geneologies we should do research on who has the authentic teachings of ahlebayt preserved via an unbroken chain reaching to the prophet pbuh.
Infact there are more fabricated hadith then sahih hadith. This is where the science of hadith comes as Allah says "We have, Without doubt, sent down the Zikr(Zikr of Rasulallah): and we will assuredly guard it (from corruption) (Qur'an 15:9)" . The scientific scrutiny of hadith enables us to distinguish the false hadith from the sahih ones. There are very stringent criteria and science to accept or reject a hadith

silvertongue
Posts: 578
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:34 am

Re: Bohra succession chain should be stopped now

#46

Unread post by silvertongue » Thu Aug 07, 2014 6:38 am

Agreed.. :-) ... But lets hope the future comes out good though..

New
Posts: 440
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:49 pm

Re: Bohra succession chain should be stopped now

#47

Unread post by New » Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:00 pm

Succession chain be stopped by who? It is in our hands. How about 3 to 4 thousands declare this world wide? We will have to give each Dai a pension or send them to Kala Pani to make their own rotis. Is it a joke, Kala Pani for white robed people?

AmmarHussaini
Posts: 230
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:37 pm

Re: Bohra succession chain should be stopped now

#48

Unread post by AmmarHussaini » Sat Aug 09, 2014 10:22 am

morela wrote:The dispute BETWEEN us was and is never about the progeny of prophet pbuh(Ahlebayt) . The dispute IS about who has the authentic teachings of the progeny preserved to this day. Only a claim is not enough. We have a meticulous science of hadith which ensures that all sayings of the Arch Ahlebayt propeht pbuh have reached us "AS IS". Shias esp Ismailis have no such science due to their reliance on the fanciful theory of Infallible Imams, esotericism and taweel. Its a good theory but it has been proved to not work as the Imam himself has disappared\killed\defaulted etc and one Imam Moiz even converted to coptic Christianity and his baptistry is present to this day , with each sect claiming they have the correct imam or representative. Even daimul Islam is a poor work when it come to sourcing its claims. And various Ismaili sects have difference of opinions on this book itself.
The problem with Daimul Islam is the absence of Ilmul Rijaal (history of narrators) in Daimul Islam. DaimulIslam is just a book of fiqh and not a book of hadith.People do find fiqh interesting but the fiqh should be based on authentic hadith.
Daimul Islam does not even attempt to go into that direction of validating the hadith.It is not even in the domain of a fiqh book to go into this detail. The hadith quoted in daimul Islam dont have the chain of narrators or the reference base. Infact Ismaili Islam does not have a single book of validated hadith. Isna ashari do have it.
Do you know the Ismaili sect aga khani khoja is the only sect which has an unbroken chain of Imamate traceable to the final prophet pbuh to this day. But you see they have abolished namaaz, hajj etc and believe the Imam as mazhar of Allah swt. Hence you have to accept that even the proven descendants of the prophet pbuh can fall into error and misguidance as it is only Allah who guides. Hence rather then showing geneologies we should do research on who has the authentic teachings of ahlebayt preserved via an unbroken chain reaching to the prophet pbuh.
Infact there are more fabricated hadith then sahih hadith. This is where the science of hadith comes as Allah says "We have, Without doubt, sent down the Zikr(Zikr of Rasulallah): and we will assuredly guard it (from corruption) (Qur'an 15:9)" . The scientific scrutiny of hadith enables us to distinguish the false hadith from the sahih ones. There are very stringent criteria and science to accept or reject a hadith
yes world is in very weird situation, we have decents of Muhammed(s) who have abolished islam itself by abolishing pillars of Islam, and we have those who calls them self momeen and all otheer munafiq (talking about ISIL) who have all authenticate hadiths yet they dont think twice before killing innocent kids,old and rape women in the name of jihaad.

morela
Posts: 183
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:21 pm

Re: Bohra succession chain should be stopped now

#49

Unread post by morela » Sat Aug 09, 2014 12:27 pm

AmmarHussaini wrote:
morela wrote:The dispute BETWEEN us was and is never about the progeny of prophet pbuh(Ahlebayt) . The dispute IS about who has the authentic teachings of the progeny preserved to this day. Only a claim is not enough. We have a meticulous science of hadith which ensures that all sayings of the Arch Ahlebayt propeht pbuh have reached us "AS IS". Shias esp Ismailis have no such science due to their reliance on the fanciful theory of Infallible Imams, esotericism and taweel. Its a good theory but it has been proved to not work as the Imam himself has disappared\killed\defaulted etc and one Imam Moiz even converted to coptic Christianity and his baptistry is present to this day , with each sect claiming they have the correct imam or representative. Even daimul Islam is a poor work when it come to sourcing its claims. And various Ismaili sects have difference of opinions on this book itself.
The problem with Daimul Islam is the absence of Ilmul Rijaal (history of narrators) in Daimul Islam. DaimulIslam is just a book of fiqh and not a book of hadith.People do find fiqh interesting but the fiqh should be based on authentic hadith.
Daimul Islam does not even attempt to go into that direction of validating the hadith.It is not even in the domain of a fiqh book to go into this detail. The hadith quoted in daimul Islam dont have the chain of narrators or the reference base. Infact Ismaili Islam does not have a single book of validated hadith. Isna ashari do have it.
Do you know the Ismaili sect aga khani khoja is the only sect which has an unbroken chain of Imamate traceable to the final prophet pbuh to this day. But you see they have abolished namaaz, hajj etc and believe the Imam as mazhar of Allah swt. Hence you have to accept that even the proven descendants of the prophet pbuh can fall into error and misguidance as it is only Allah who guides. Hence rather then showing geneologies we should do research on who has the authentic teachings of ahlebayt preserved via an unbroken chain reaching to the prophet pbuh.
Infact there are more fabricated hadith then sahih hadith. This is where the science of hadith comes as Allah says "We have, Without doubt, sent down the Zikr(Zikr of Rasulallah): and we will assuredly guard it (from corruption) (Qur'an 15:9)" . The scientific scrutiny of hadith enables us to distinguish the false hadith from the sahih ones. There are very stringent criteria and science to accept or reject a hadith
yes world is in very weird situation, we have decents of Muhammed(s) who have abolished islam itself by abolishing pillars of Islam, and we have those who calls them self momeen and all otheer munafiq (talking about ISIL) who have all authenticate hadiths yet they dont think twice before killing innocent kids,old and rape women in the name of jihaad.

Ibn 'Abbas, radiyallahu 'anhu, said that the Messenger of Allah, sallallahu 'alayhi wasallam, said: "Were people to be given according to their claims, some would claim the wealth and blood of others. But the burden of proof is upon the claimant and the taking of an oath is upon the one who denies (the allegation)." [An excellent hadith which al-Bayhaqi and others have related. Parts of it is in the two Sahih books (i.e. in al-Bukhari and Muslim).]

So here the onus of proof lies on the claimant of the above claim i.e "Isis is killing "INNOCENT" people \civilians", the Iran\western and all mushrikeen have united against one entity and are spreading false propoganda like fire the defendant like Isis or narendra modi just has to take an Oath in the name of God to defend against the claim which ISIS has publicly done.

AmmarHussaini
Posts: 230
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:37 pm

Re: Bohra succession chain should be stopped now

#50

Unread post by AmmarHussaini » Sun Aug 10, 2014 7:28 am

Children are dying where ISIL have kept christians and yazidis on hostage
Attachments
10418514_10152674280351495_3706778730165325825_n.jpg

AmmarHussaini
Posts: 230
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:37 pm

Re: Bohra succession chain should be stopped now

#51

Unread post by AmmarHussaini » Sun Aug 10, 2014 7:38 am

ISIS killed 500 Yazidis, buried some alive incl women and children - Iraq

http://rt.com/news/179280-iraq-islamic-kil-yazidi/

AmmarHussaini
Posts: 230
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:37 pm

Re: Bohra succession chain should be stopped now

#52

Unread post by AmmarHussaini » Sun Aug 10, 2014 7:51 am

Many women and children, as well as the sick and elderly, have already died on the mountain from hunger and dehydration. They fled to the mountain after IS fighters overran a nearby settlement where they had taken shelter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJoZqWcqZCs#t=16

watch this video and see how elderly and kids are suffering, is this ISLAMIC teachings?

if few morons thinks this is correct then let ALLAH keep their children and parents in same situations, they will know what kind of suffering these people are facing.

inna lillah wainna ilahi rajeun

morela
Posts: 183
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:21 pm

Re: Bohra succession chain should be stopped now

#53

Unread post by morela » Sun Sep 07, 2014 12:16 pm

Please remain on topic

morela
Posts: 183
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:21 pm

Re: Bohra succession chain should be stopped now

#54

Unread post by morela » Thu Sep 11, 2014 12:08 am

and dont bring such topics in threads

topiwala
Posts: 150
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2014 1:02 pm

Re: Bohra succession chain should be stopped now

#55

Unread post by topiwala » Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:20 am

wahhabis want this that bohra sucession should be taken over by them, they are baap of reformists. the whole world condemns them!

qutub_mamajiwala
Posts: 1001
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:17 am

Re: Bohra succession chain should be stopped now

#56

Unread post by qutub_mamajiwala » Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:37 am

an article of a muslim in uk published in that paper--i am producing it below just to illustrate that are we true muslims?

At a bus stop in Britain, bus No. 414 stopped and a well-dressed man in his 30s boarded the bus while holding a four-wheeled stroller with a beautiful blue-eyed baby who I think was not more than two years old.

Due to lack of sufficient space to safely place the stroller, the man placed it on a seat and stood throughout the journey. He held a mobile phone in his left hand and an apple in his other hand. The apple was bitten once.

Out of curiosity, I watched this man hold the apple and not eat it. Several questions were running through my mind especially because of the way he was holding the apple as though he was holding a bouquet of Holland’s flowers. I continued to watch him through my dark-shaded sunglasses even though I am not the kind of person to poke my nose into other people’s businesses.

At the next stop, a woman in her 20s boarded the bus. At that time, I was still wondering why he wasn’t eating the apple, whether it belonged to him or his child, and many such questions. I then saw the woman approach him and ask if she can finish the apple.

The man politely turned her down several times despite her persistence. All the while, I was watching out of increasing curiosity and wondering why he was holding onto that apple without eating it.

As I kept thinking about all these questions, the red bus came to a stop and immediately the man alighted from the bus, leaving behind the child in the stroller. He went to the nearest dustbin, threw the apple and hopped back into the bus.

When he was inside the bus, he politely told the woman who asked for the apple that, “The apple had fallen on the ground. I would not advise anyone to eat it”. It sounded as though the man was apologizing for not meeting her request.

This is when my mind reached a conclusion regarding the way he was holding the apple like a bouquet of followers and why it was bitten only once. The level of politeness and decorum shown by the man was admirable. He did not mock her or call her crazy. They both behaved in a respectable and kind manner, which made me wonder how such a situation would result in our Arab and Islamic world.

Our lives these days are based on incidents and our logical reactions to such incidents. Due to complexities of life, we usually end up looking for a knot on a rope with no knots.

I will not look into the reason why both of them behaved the way they did even though both appeared well-dressed and of sound mind. I am aware that there are people in this world who, despite their neat appearances, are unable to find anything to eat or drink. However, I would like to indicate my fascination regarding the way the man dealt with the woman in the most humane way possible without showing any kind of prejudice.

It is not strange for non-Muslims to show high moral standards that Muslims often lack. I see crippled trends and values being followed by Muslims of the present age while the non-Muslims follow the same trends and values in the best form. I believe there are many like me who have noticed this as well.

Where I currently live, it is common to find many female beggars hiding behind veils and uttering words to indicate they are Muslims. Even though I do not know if they are Muslims or not, what I know is that they have mastered the art of using religion to beg. They have even taught their children how to beg and they will not leave you until they receive something.

In the other world, it is common to see people, particularly the unfortunate ones, playing a musical instrument or performing some form of art on the streets. In return, pedestrians who appreciate their performance usually leave some money inside a cup or on a mat near those people out of generosity.

I believe anyone who exerts efforts even an acrobat on the street deserve a coin more than those who use their children as a begging tool irrespective of whether they are Muslims or non-Muslims.

I really feel sad and hurt when I see some Muslims following Islam only by the alphabets. The current events transpiring in the Muslim world in terms of conspiracies and plots among the Muslims themselves in regional and social scale are strong evidences of the fact that many Muslims lack the spirit of Islam and are just living skeletons.

The incident inside Bus No. 414 provoked me into thinking about Islam with no Muslims. I hope the hearts of Muslims who unfortunately are living without Islamic trends and values will be moved.

badrijanab
Posts: 809
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:19 pm

Re: Bohra succession chain should be stopped now

#57

Unread post by badrijanab » Fri Oct 24, 2014 5:59 pm

phdguy wrote:I hope the court rejects both the claimants and nationalizes all bohra properties and give the intellectuals like GM, Insaaf, etc as a member committee to manage the properties.
Lets start with Kothar and then club Ajmer and other Dargah khaadims assets, assets of Shahi Imam of Jama Masjid, assets of all terrorists, so on and so forth.

Munira_RV
Posts: 157
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:38 pm

Re: Bohra succession chain should be stopped now

#58

Unread post by Munira_RV » Fri Oct 24, 2014 6:07 pm

badrijanab wrote:
phdguy wrote:I hope the court rejects both the claimants and nationalizes all bohra properties and give the intellectuals like GM, Insaaf, etc as a member committee to manage the properties.
Lets start with Kothar and then club Ajmer and other Dargah khaadims assets, assets of Shahi Imam of Jama Masjid, assets of all terrorists, Hindu's temples, Christians churches, so on and so forth.
Every sect whether Shia, Sunni, Hindu or Christians all are only into business of religion to make money.

badrijanab
Posts: 809
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:19 pm

Re: Bohra succession chain should be stopped now

#59

Unread post by badrijanab » Fri Oct 24, 2014 6:09 pm

Munira_RV wrote:
Every sect whether Shia, Sunni, Hindu or Christians all are only into business of religion to make money.
That is unfortunately harsh truth.

khokawala
Posts: 184
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:49 pm

Re: Bohra succession chain should be stopped now

#60

Unread post by khokawala » Tue Nov 04, 2014 5:30 am

No not all are into making money , the saved sect prophesized by prophet pbuh does not indulge in such money making business. Most of the non muslims who convert to Islam join the pure islamic sect free from shirk and biddah reflecting sincere search for truth.