WILL I RECEIVE PUNISHMENT IN THE GRAVE (AZAB-E-QABR)?

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Hasan
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed May 07, 2014 3:44 pm

WILL I RECEIVE PUNISHMENT IN THE GRAVE (AZAB-E-QABR)?

#1

Unread post by Hasan » Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:05 pm

Like many others, I was told of punishment awaiting me in the grave, for wrong doings, by my parents, imams and other supposedly learned colleagues.

But, according to the Quran, there is no such concept as a ‘punishment in the grave’. This is a concept is completely alien and unsupported by the Quran. This concept is found primarily (with all its details) in Islamic secondary sources.

From a Quran's perspective, the evidence seems overwhelming that at the point of death, one will become aware of the ‘truth’. Then one will enter ‘Barzakh’, a quintessential state of ‘sleep’ where all concept of time will be lost. When one finally awakes, they will be confronting the Day of Judgment. The time lapse will feel as if one had only slept for a small part of the day when in truth, they would have tarried all the way to the Day of Judgment.

Before we take a look at the verses, an immediate question should arise:

What would be the purpose of an appointed Day of Judgment if after death, one were to receive their punishment in their graves before the trial had even taken place?

Conviction before trial is not a concept of justice and God is the most Just. In effect, this would render the Day of Judgment meaningless, a fundamental belief posited by the Quran underscored by numerous Surahs and verses. God repeatedly informs His creation that He will never be unjust to his slaves and not an atom's weight of injustice will take place. All actions will be recorded in a clear record (10:61; 34:3; 99:7-8; 4:40)

Furthermore, we note the following from the Quran.


FROM THE MOMENT ONE DIES AND ARE SUBSEQUENTLY RAISED, IT WILL FEEL LIKE A MOMENTARY TIME LAPSE

17:52
"It will be on a Day when He will call you, and you will answer (His call) with (words of) His praise, and you will think that you tarried but a little while!"

30.55-56
“On the Day that the Hour (of Reckoning) will be established, the transgressors will swear that they tarried not but an hour: thus were they used to being deluded! But those endued with knowledge and faith will say: "Indeed ye did tarry, within God's Decree, to the Day of Resurrection, and this is the Day of Resurrection: but you - you were not aware”

10:45
“One day He will gather them together: (It will be) as if they had tarried but an hour of a day: they will recognise each other: assuredly those will be lost who denied the meeting with God and refused to receive true guidance”

46:35
"Therefore patiently persevere, as did (all) messengers of determination; and be in no haste about the (Unbelievers). On the Day that they see what they were promised, (it will be) as if they had not tarried more than an hour in a single day. (Yours is but) to proclaim the Message: but shall any be destroyed except those who transgress?"

79:46
"On the day that they see it, it will be as though they had not tarried but the latter part of a day or the early part of it"

Similar wisdom is imparted in other verses:

The sleepers of the cave slept for many hundreds of years (God knows best the exact period) but they felt they had only slept for a little while (18:19)
A man slept for a 100 years but he only felt like that he slept for a part of a day (2:259)


THE DAY OF JUDGMENT IS ONLY A BLINKING OF AN EYE AWAY

In the context of the above verses, it becomes clear what is meant by the following verse which completely resonates with the theme of the Quran. At the point of death (which can come upon any of us at a stroke) and till the Day of raising, it is but a blink of an eye.

16:77
“And to God belongs the Unseen of the heavens and the earth, and the matter of the Hour (of Doom) is but as a twinkling of the eye, or it is nearer still. Indeed! God is Able to do all things”


WHEN ONE DIES, THEY ENTER 'BARZAKH' - HUMAN CONCEPT OF TIME IS LOST

23:100
"That I may do right in that which I have left behind! But nay! It is but a word that he speaks; and behind them is a barrier (Arabic: Barzakhun) until the day when they are raised."

10:045
“And on the day when He shall gather them together, (when it will seem) as though they had tarried but an hour of the day, recognising one another, those will verily have perished who denied the meeting with God and were not guided”


AT THE POINT WHEN YOU DIE, THE ACTUAL TRUTH (OF PURPOSE) WILL BE KNOWN ESPECIALLY FOR DISBELIEVERS

6.093
"And who is more unjust than he who forges a lie against God, or says: It has been revealed to me; while nothing has been revealed to him, and he who says: I can reveal the like of what God has revealed? and if you had seen when the unjust shall be in the agonies of death and the angels shall spread forth their hands: Give up your souls; today you shall be recompensed with an ignominious chastisement because you spoke against God other than the truth and (because) you showed pride against His communications"


A MISQUOTED VERSE

Regrettably, without reconciling the Quranic narratives in full and due to beliefs stemming from popular traditions, one often finds use being made of isolated Quranic verses to authenticate doctrines not taught by the Quran.

With regards the example of Pharaoh, the following verse is often cited to justify the concept of ‘punishment in the grave’.

40:46
“In front of the Fire will they be brought, morning and evening: and (the sentence will be) on the Day that Judgment will be established: "Cast ye the People of Pharaoh into the severest Penalty”

If read in context, it becomes absolutely clear that this is a reference to the Day of Judgment.

40:47
“And when they shall contend one with another in the fire, then the weak shall say to those who were proud: Surely we were your followers; will you then avert from us a portion of the fire?”

For this reason given the context, it is difficult to accept 40:46 as a reference to a ‘punishment in the grave’. Mutual disputes between the people of Pharaoh in the fire clearly indicate a state of communal punishment and not a punishment in separate graves.

The very next verse provides further clarity:

40:48
“Those who were proud shall say: Surely we are all in it: surely God has judged between the servants”

This judgment can only be one made on the Day of Judgment.

Furthermore, given the descriptive traditions which deal with punishments in the grave, one has to acknowledge that Pharaoh actually drowned but was later preserved in body (10:92) and has no grave in the sense one would commonly understand it. So the difficulty with traditional understanding continues in so much as how one then reconciles Pharaoh's punishment in the grave when his body was never buried. Clearly, the verses are misquoted out of context.

The key to understanding any Quranic theme is to remain consistent with all the Quranic verses.


FINAL THOUGHTS

In keeping with all the Quranic verses and with a view to remain consistent, it is clear that the Quran informs the reader that death can approach one at any point. At the point of death, one will come to know the truth, the possible reality of his actual purpose on earth. One will then enter a state of ‘Barzakh’ where all human concept of time will cease. Once awoken, one would be face to face with the Day of judgment and it would have felt that one had tarried just a short while (regardless of actual time).

This is when the final judgment would then begin, where not an atom's weight of injustice would take place (99:7-8). God’s concept of time is completely different from our own (22:47; 32:5; 70:4)


SOME QUESTIONS:

Is it possible that mankind, impatient as they are, have devised stories to attribute punishment to disbelieving dead ones to cover the period of existence of man? After all, why should one wait for the Day of Resurrection when it is far more comforting to know that a disbeliever is being punished incessantly till the Day of Resurrection?

This is in stark contrast with the consistent message from the Quran that mankind will only be raised on the Day of Resurrection. There is no intermediate rising which will be a necessary precursor in order to feel the punishment of the grave (after death and before the Day of Judgment).

If there was such an unjust concept of grave punishment, how could one reconcile the period of the Azaab (punishment) of someone who died as a disbeliever 5,000 years ago and one that dies 2 minutes before the Day of Resurrection? It seems awfully unjust that someone who dies 5,000 years ago should receive a greater period of punishment in the grave than someone who died moments before the Day of Resurrection and who may actually be a greater sinner

Not everyone is buried in a grave, some are cremated, some are frozen on the tips of mountains (e.g. unsuccessful climbs), some die in aviation accidents and of course in many others ways. For those who would wish to reconcile this, a plausible explanation would be to introduce the concept of punishment in ‘Barzakh’, a state not confined to graves. If this line of argument is to be followed, then why is the Quran absolutely silent about punishment within this state of Barzakh. Furthermore, why does most of the hadith corpus dealing with this topic allude to a physical punishment in the grave? The Quran clearly states that from the point of death to one's awakening, it will feel like a mere part of a day.


Every night we are put to sleep (which in Quranic terms is expressed as death 39:42) and every morning there is a new rising. Every night, we are reminded of this ‘practice run’ akin to death and the final awakening, yet sadly, many remain oblivious to God’s portents.

39:42 [Person (nafs) = Consciousness]
“God takes the person when it dies, and during their sleep. He then keeps those
that have been overtaken by death, and He sends the others back until a predetermined time. In that are signs for a people who will think.”



By Joseph Islam



anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

#2

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:18 pm

The following story is mentioned in an authentic Hadith that is narrated by Abu Hurairah (razi Allah ta’ala anhu):

"A man who had never performed a good deed throughout his life gave these instructions to his family: When I die, burn me and scatter half of my remains on land, and the other half in the sea. For by Allah, if Allah is able to get me, He will punish me as He punishes no one else from the entire creation!

When he died, his family followed his instructions to the letter. Allah (aza wa jal) then ordered the land to gather together his remains that were scattered on it, and the sea to gather together his remains that were scattered in it. Then when the man was brought together again, Allah (aza wa jal) asked him why he did what he did. He said, “From fear of You, O my Lord! And you know best (as to what was in my heart).” Allah (aza wa jal) then forgave him.”

____________________________

Al-Bukhari: 7506 and Muslim: 2756



Hasan
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed May 07, 2014 3:44 pm

#3

Unread post by Hasan » Thu Jul 17, 2014 4:01 pm

anajmi wrote:The following story is mentioned in an authentic Hadith that is narrated by Abu Hurairah (razi Allah ta’ala anhu):

"A man who had never performed a good deed throughout his life gave these instructions to his family: When I die, burn me and scatter half of my remains on land, and the other half in the sea. For by Allah, if Allah is able to get me, He will punish me as He punishes no one else from the entire creation!

When he died, his family followed his instructions to the letter. Allah (aza wa jal) then ordered the land to gather together his remains that were scattered on it, and the sea to gather together his remains that were scattered in it. Then when the man was brought together again, Allah (aza wa jal) asked him why he did what he did. He said, “From fear of You, O my Lord! And you know best (as to what was in my heart).” Allah (aza wa jal) then forgave him.”

____________________________

Al-Bukhari: 7506 and Muslim: 2756
Bro
I am agreed with you on above given narration but question that arise in my mind is that why the concept of azab be qabr is not supported by the Quran ?? Hope you throw some light on this issue

Peace



anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

#4

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Jul 17, 2014 4:11 pm

The Quran says obey Allah and obey the prophet (saw). And the prophet (saw) has asked us to protect ourselves from the punishment in the grave. And according to the Quran, we have to obey the prophet (saw).

Edit - The Quran also says that the prophet (saw) does not speak on his own, but only that which he is commanded by Allah.



Hasan
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed May 07, 2014 3:44 pm

#5

Unread post by Hasan » Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:35 am

anajmi wrote:The Quran says obey Allah and obey the prophet (saw). And the prophet (saw) has asked us to protect ourselves from the punishment in the grave. And according to the Quran, we have to obey the prophet (saw).

Edit - The Quran also says that the prophet (saw) does not speak on his own, but only that which he is commanded by Allah.
bro
In quran we see that Allah says


42:51 And it is not for any human that Allah should speak to him except by revelation [wahy] or from behind a barrier [hijab] or that He sends a messenger to reveal [yuhiya], by His permission, what He wills. Indeed, He is Most High and Wise


Three methods of communication are mentioned here: revelation, from behind a barrier, and via a messenger.

A premise we all seem to use is, obey Allah = obey quran. However, from 42/51 we are told that Allah can give commands via three different modes. When the quran says ‘obey Allah’ it must obviously include all of the aforementioned methods of communication and so obedience to Allah can potentially be more than ‘obey quran’. It can be understood that people must obey Allah’s command however it reaches them, whether that be through, for example, a personal revelation, a sudden, strong sense of morality or, of course, through verses in quran. Allah’s signs are not just in quran, but in nature and in all aspects of reality. Instruction from Him can come via different avenues. 42/51 gives us an idea of what ‘obey Allah’ can consist of.

However, the most important and consistent means of instruction from Allah is most certainly the quran. 42/51 says that Allah sends a messenger who reveals [yahiya] with His permission. What was revealed to the messenger?

42/7 And thus We have revealed [awhayna] to you a quran, flawless [arabiyyan], that you may warn the mother of towns and those around it and warn of the Day of Assembly, about which there is no doubt. A party will be in Paradise and a party in the Blaze.

42/51 and 42/7 confirm that Allah sent the messenger and revealed via him, the quran.


A different understanding comes about when now looking at those verses that say ‘obey Allah and obey His messenger’. As demonstrated by 42/51, obeying Allah includes obeying all commands received from Him via any of the various means Allah uses. When the verses add, ‘and obey the messenger’, we can see Allah is drawing attention and emphasising the most important and vital obedience necessary: obedience to what the messenger revealed i.e. quran as per 42/7.

This is of course inclusive of obeying Allah, but Allah deemed it worthy to provide clarity and emphasis in this regard. 42/51 explains why Allah doesn’t say ‘obey the message’. He refers to the messenger because messengers are the chosen form of communication for Allah.

Therefore, the understanding of the phrase is along the lines of:
Obey Allah (via all signs/instructions made apparent to you i.e. 42/51) and (specifically) obey His messenger (via the message revealed to him i.e. quran 42/7).
So we can see through examining similar structures in quran that the command to obey the messenger is to highlight the importance of obeying the revelation given to the messenger. This accounts for the remainder of the equation.

peace



Hasan
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed May 07, 2014 3:44 pm

#6

Unread post by Hasan » Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:45 am

But if you say that Allah"S messenger also received something besides quran??
Than why did not the prophet compiles its why did not rightly guided khalifas compiles the saying of the prophet in form of book like quran

why the compilation of hadith was done 250 year after the prophets death ??



anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

#7

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:02 pm

I am grateful to Allah almighty first and then to those who took the trouble to compile way of the prophet (saw) into the form of a book. Can you imagine if every single one had to go search for people who knew people who knew people who knew people (1400 centuries worth) to figure out how to bury the dead or to pray salaah or to go for hajj and everything else. We would have a million different ways of praying salaah and 2.5 million different ways of doing hajj every year. Can you imagine half the people going clockwise and the other half going anti-clockwise in tawaf?

Remember, it isn't the responsibility of someone else to tell you how the prophet (saw) did salaah and roza and hajj. It is your job to figure it out so that you can obey the prophet (saw) as Allah commanded in the Quran. The people who collected the hadith have actually done a big favor upon us.



anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

#8

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:17 pm

One other key point. Even the Quran was originally an oral delivery. It wasn't in the form of a book. The prophet (saw) never wrote down a single word of the Quran himself. It was in his and his sahaba's hearts. They did us a gargantuan favor by putting it in the form of a book. Otherwise each and every single one of us would've had to memorize it by listening to people who had memorized it.



Hasan
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed May 07, 2014 3:44 pm

#9

Unread post by Hasan » Sat Jul 19, 2014 4:26 am

anajmi wrote:The Quran says obey Allah and obey the prophet (saw). And the prophet (saw) has asked us to protect ourselves from the punishment in the grave. And according to the Quran, we have to obey the prophet (saw).

Edit - The Quran also says that the prophet (saw) does not speak on his own, but only that which he is commanded by Allah.

as brother you said that qurans says obey Allah and obey the prophet than obeying Alllah we need quran and for obeying prophet we need hadith right

than you say that the the quran was in oral form and sahbas as memorize it by hard and then compile it in the written form in there life time and for obeying prophet they need hadith then why not they compile it in there life time

OR it is like obeying prophet means something else rather than hadith beacause Muhammad (S) Hadiths Are Not Muhammad (S)
Instead, they are the Hadiths (narrations) of men and women who never saw the Prophet; in
fact, the grandparents of their grandparents never saw the Prophet.
It is well known that the first book of Hadith is that of Imam bukhari , who was born more than 200
years after the death of Muhammad (S) . When Imam Bukhari wrote his book of Hadiths, he used to visit
the people whom he knew as sources. After verifying that his source is "truthful," and known
as a man or woman of righteousness, Imam bukhari would ask, "Do you know a Hadith?" The person
would answer, "Yes," then proceed to narrate the "Hadith" as follows: "I heard my father, may
Allah bless his soul, say that he heard his older brother, may Allah bless his soul, say that he
was sitting with his grandmother, may Allah bless her soul, and she told him that she was
having dinner one day with her great uncle, may Allah bless his soul, when he stated that his
maternal grandfather knew Imam Ahmad ibn Muhammad alAmawy, who mentioned that his
grandfather heard from his oldest uncle that he met the great companion of the Prophet
Omar ibn Khaled AlYamany, and he told him that the Prophet, peace be upon him, said,
'......'"
Thus, the Hadith is simply a narration by Imam bukhari source, claiming that he or she heard
something about the Prophet across eight generations of the dead.
On the other hand, we possess evidence that Quran is the infallible
word of God, and that it was uttered by the Prophet Muhammad. Therefore, we obey the
messenger by obeying Quran; nothing but Quran.beacause you see Obeying Hadith Is Not Obeying The Messenger
Instead, it is obedience to the men and women who narrated the "Hadiths."
Obeying the "Hadith of the Prophet," is in fact obeying a group of simpleminded
people who thought that the Prophet had said something more than 200 years before they
were born.
Thus, if the narrator of a given Hadith is for example a Abbas ibn Yasser, then obeying the
Hadith narrated by Abbas ibn Yasser is in fact obeying Abbas ibn Yasser, and has nothing to do
with obeying the Prophet.
The true obedience of the Prophet Muhammad is only by obeying Quran beacuse you see unlike Quran the hadith are full with contradiction and flaws

peace



anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

#10

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Jul 19, 2014 6:13 am

Please refer to my last two posts as a response. Do you know how the prophet prayed salaah or how he did hajj? Have you gone for hajj? Does the kind of islam you follow require you to perform hajj?

By the way, do you know Arabic?