World at war : who to blame

[ghulam muhammed]

But the topic we need to continue is how we divert hate within our community.

Give a contract to ISIS to get rid of all the sectarian leaders

[ghulam muhammed]

understand the difference between Judaism which is 4000 year old religion before Islam was established , Zionism which is Jewish political strategy before accusing a respected religion .

Hope people will do the same with regard to Islam and stop accusing a respected religion by blaming Muslims instead of blaming the fringe elements within the community (like the Zionist) who are the actual villians.

[anajmi]

Start with attributing blame where it belongs.

Unfortunately, over here in this community (the bohras) it won't happen. I was just thinking about this and realized that as bohras, we were taught to hate other muslims. We have been taught that other muslims are the killers and murderers. And this has been ingrained into our psyche for centuries. Hence, we are unable to empathize with the Palestinians or the Iraqis. And hence bohras, unfortunately, will always blame the muslims. They are no better than the rest of the world that turns a blind eye to the plight of a desperate people.

The prophet (saw) has said that the muslim ummah is like one body. If any one part is injured the entire body feels it. I don't think the bohras are a part of that body.

you had been bashing America and Israel and talking about blaming Jews for all the problem in Muslim world and when I asked for the solution you put the blame on Dawoodi Bohra, a community which lives in a bubble and their thinking does not go beyond whatever Kothari Goons says.
Your solution of entire Jewish-American and Israeli conspiracy against Muslim Ummah comes down to Bohras?

Not sure if you are capable of reading and understanding at the same time. My solution was the first line in my post. The rest of the post was an explanation of why people like you don't understand the problems faced by the Palestinians, and with your senseless post, you proved me right!!

[qutub_mamajiwala]

israel ppl whin about holocast everynow and then, u do about palestine whats the difference
between u two?

[SBM]

why people like you don't understand the problems faced by the Palestinians,

Have you been to Palestine? How many Palestinian organizations in USA do you belong to?
If Hamas knew that they could not fight Israel, why start shooting TOY rockets and make life more miserable. Where were your friends like Saudi-Jordan-Egypt-Kuwait and UAE are on this issue. They did not even issued a condemnation, where were the protests in those countries. They all have common language, culture and Madhab of Sunnism. They only country who did provide the lip service was Iran and Turkey both Non Arabs.
My point is Palestinian people are being used as scapegoat
by the Muslim Leadership by Arabs and their own Palestinian leaders,
Just like there are two Dawedars in Bohra, Palestinians have two Dawedars, PLO and Hamas and just Bohras are being used same way Palestinians are being used by these greedy Power hungry, egotistic leaders to stay in power.
SINCE YOU CONSIDER YOURSELF THE SMARTEST ON THIS FORUM AND CONSIDER EVERYONE'S POST AS SENSELESS , YOU MAY NOT BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND MY REASONING EITHER

[alam]

There is a fundamental problem with the title of this thread. As long as you frame issues in terms of "Blame" all you get is fingerpointing and Wars as the end result.

Excuse my butting in. Continue on, if you must, Ignore this.

[SBM]

Alam
Point well taken, No more discussion on this.

[anajmi]

israel ppl whin about holocast everynow and then, u do about palestine whats the difference
between u two?

Palestine is an existing problem you moron. People are suffering and dying over there everyday.

If Hamas knew that they could not fight Israel, why start shooting TOY rockets and make life more miserable.

As I have said previously in my posts which you probably did not read or understand

We all know the Hamas rockets do nothing. They are nothing more than diwali fire crackers. Probably fired by mossad agents to initiate the war and land grab.


Even food and building material cannot get into Palestine without Israeli inspection. How do you think thousands of rockets which are harmless to Israel get into Palestine?

Where were your friends like Saudi-Jordan-Egypt-Kuwait and UAE are on this issue.

Again, you probably did not read or understand my earlier posts where I said something about puppets. But that was expected from you.

Alam
Point well taken, No more discussion on this.

That is exactly what your friends Saudi-Jordan-Egypt-Kuwait and UAE are doing on this!!

[anajmi]

Just like there are two Dawedars in Bohra, Palestinians have two Dawedars, PLO and Hamas and just Bohras are being used same way Palestinians are being used by these greedy Power hungry, egotistic leaders to stay in power.

A misplaced analogy. There is no external power trying to grab bohra land and wealth or killing bohras with impunity.

SINCE YOU CONSIDER YOURSELF THE SMARTEST ON THIS FORUM AND CONSIDER EVERYONE'S POST AS SENSELESS , YOU MAY NOT BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND MY REASONING EITHER

You are damn right I don't. I am just scratching my head over here. How can people be so blind and stupid?

[SBM]

How can people be so blind and stupid?

And you are the leader of the pack

[Ozdundee]

Anajmi the way you are placing your argument is that you really believe that the so called Hamas are Israeli agents who intentionally fire fireworks so Israeli military can start firing missiles to exterminate Palestinian people.

According to you In all this cases no Palestinian is at fault and no Muslim is at fault, no Muslim is fault of using that case to push forward their own agenda . But this topic is not to solve the Palestine issue, however whenever we talk about Muslim issues somehow Palestine drops into as the core reason. So boko haram killing Christian Nigerians is a Palestine issue, taleban killing Muslims in Pakistan is a Palestine issue, Indonesians killing Christians is Palestine issue, Somali shabab looting and pirating East Africans is a Palestine issue. In many of these places there is no hope for oil so it is not an oil strategy too.

Now for once visualise this ...if Palestine was not an issue and the Arab oil had runout, there was democracy , oh wait mainstream Muslim orthodoxy does not permit western style democracy it only permits Khalifa or imamat...will Middle East be at peace and calm ?

If we insulate our selves with responsibility for our own misery the we cannot start looking for solutions as the solutions are within us. If we go on like this and not reform and assume our anger and violence will scare people away may not last long , there is a likelihood that the majority of the world will get fed up of us and get more intrusive to disrupt our recklessness .

This incident happened with my elderly relative who lives with close to us, ..we have a Christian Arab from Egypt living in the street, she knows about Ismaili and Fatimid, Shia and Muslims more than I thought I did as she studied and grew up in Cairo . After the Isis issue she started getting vocal and started asking why we do these issues, she relayed the experience of Islamic brotherhood issues in Egypt where here family were being harassed. He family back home is looking for a way out but cannot migrate.

One day My elderly relative was asked what she thought and naively replied the Isis issues is a minority. This lady went into her house and brought a Quran , she asked my relative if she read the Quran, she replied yes, this Arab lady asked if she understood what she read, my relative admitted no she did not read translations , so she started opening surah where it stated Muslims are commended to kill. My relative was left dumbfounded and embarrassed. When she returned and narrated the story she asked whether that was true..I said yes it is true but she should have informed her translations should be read in context.....but you would agree that is too late to salvage the impression on both ladies my relative and the Christian Arab.

The Arab lady challenged my realities how she follows a faith that she does not understand the literal meaning, my relative replied she follows what he holiness says and interprets, she was asked what if the priest is misleading her how she would know ? My relative asked if she is so smart what she is reading she a Coptic replied a Christian bible written in Arabic . The men in the situations heard these arguments were flaring and had to intervene to calm the situation...however they dragged me into it where my relative stated I her nephew will come and answer her ...and the Arab lady whenever sees me says when will I come for coffee....my bohra instincts are about to kick in !

I am still trying to find a suitable way to respond to the 2 ladies ...I am open to ideas. What is don't want to do is give some loose explanation which traps me into looking silly or destroy the credibility of my faith in their eyes ? SBM and Anajmi your comments will help me formulate a response.

[anajmi]

however whenever we talk about Muslim issues somehow Palestine drops into as the core reason. So boko haram killing Christian Nigerians is a Palestine issue, taleban killing Muslims in Pakistan is a Palestine issue, Indonesians killing Christians is Palestine issue, Somali shabab looting and pirating East Africans is a Palestine issue. In many of these places there is no hope for oil so it is not an oil strategy too.

Actually, its the other way around. Whenever we talk about Palestinian issues, boko haram killing Christian Nigerians comes up, taleban killing Muslims in Pakistan comes up, etc etc, to divert the blame from Israel onto other Muslims.

For example, at the beginning of this thread, my first post was -

Actually, the problem in the middle east between the jews and the Muslims is not because of Islamic books but it is because of jewish books. This author is a moron and those agreeing with him are ignorant fools.

and the next one was

The jewish books contain Gods promise to the children of Israel about them being the owners of the land that belongs to the Palestinians. Since they never accepted the Quran as the final testament, which nullifies this promise due to their transgressions, they believe Palestine belongs to the jews. You may have read that the Israeli leaders just last week decided to steal more palestinian land in response to the killing of the three jewish teenagers. Who is to say that this wasn't the plan all along? We all know the Hamas rockets do nothing. They are nothing more than diwali fire crackers. Probably fired by mossad agents to initiate the war and land grab.

So, I was talking specifically about the Palestinian issue in response to some idiotic post from someone about Palestine. And then you, or someone brought up ISIS and Saudi wahhabi ideology and then someone else brought up boko haraam and maids getting mistreated in Saudi.

[anajmi]

Anajmi the way you are placing your argument is that you really believe that the so called Hamas are Israeli agents who intentionally fire fireworks so Israeli military can start firing missiles to exterminate Palestinian people.

Precisely. I recently got a letter from our senator in response to a letter I sent him where he tells me that US is going to stand by the people of Israel in their fight against the terrorist organization called Hamas. In other words, US is going to do nothing for the people of Palestine or try to reign in Israel.

Now, consider this, Israel invades Gaza every 18 to 24 months. They kills thousands of Palestinians, destroy hundreds of homes, schools, hospitals, humanitarian shelters, businesses etc. But the one thing that always remains intact is the Hamas infrastructure and leadership. Not once in the last few invasions have they dented Hamas. In their fight against terrorism, the terrorists seem not in danger at all.

Hamas apparently fires 4000 rockets in Israel during the war and how many Israelis do those rockets kill? Zero!!!!

According to news reports, hamas has 7,000 rockets still remaining (an excuse for another war in 18 months no doubt), and when mosques and schools are destroyed by Israel, they claim that these schools and mosques are used to hide Hamas' arsenal. The schools and mosques end up destroyed but Hamas' arsenal always remains intact.

Now, I am just hoping that not all of us are complete idiots, like most Americans are, who buy this crap from their governments!!

Now for once visualise this ...if Palestine was not an issue and the Arab oil had runout, there was democracy , oh wait mainstream Muslim orthodoxy does not permit western style democracy it only permits Khalifa or imamat...will Middle East be at peace and calm ?

Again, did you talk to a learned Islamic scholar about mainstream muslim orthodoxy not permitting democracy? And what is "western" style democracy? If you want western style democracy, then stay in the west. We have our own system of government which ruled the world for centuries without bloodshed. America has killed more people with its western style democracy in the last hundred years than muslims have in the last 14 hundred years!!

Imagine this scenario - someone comes into your house, kicks you out on to the street, kills your family members one by one, and I come and tell you to get out of your misery and stop blaming others for your misery or the world will be fed up of you, what do you think you ought to do?

[ghulam muhammed]

A relevant piece of information regarding the history of Palestine and the illegal occupation :

The Colonisation of Palestine

Originally part of the Ottoman Empire, Palestine was entrusted to the British government under a League of Nations mandate. In November 1917, the British announced the Balfour Declaration favouring the Zionist ideal of a Palestinian home for the Jewish people but promised to protect the political rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine. After World War II, the Zionist movement launched a concerted campaign to establish Israel. Groups such as the Irgun and the Stern gang launched actions described as terrorist even by Israelis. Along with the underground Israeli Army, they committed atrocities such as the Dir Yassein massacre of 120 villagers to enforce the expulsion of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians. They even assassinated the UN envoy Count Bernadotte.

The UN Plan for the Partition of Palestine in 1948 (supported by the USSR, but opposed by India and many Third World countries) awarded 55 per cent of Palestine to Israel and 45 per cent to Palestine's original inhabitants. Israel captured more land in the 1948 war. Thousands of Palestinian families were forced to migrate to the West Bank (Jordan) and Gaza (Egypt). In the 1967 war, Israel captured up to 78 per cent of Palestine, seized East Jerusalem and unilaterally declared a unified Jerusalem to be its capital. The Security Council's Resolution 478 condemned this violation of international law, but the United States Congress declared its intention to recognise the annexation. Resolution 242 mandated Israel to return to its earlier borders, but to no effect. (The US and UK invaded Iraq in 2003 on the ground that it had flouted UN resolutions).

Now the Palestinians have much less than the 22 per cent of historic Palestine that the UN mandated for them after 1967. Further Israeli expansion has taken place via the Separation Wall built on Palestinian land, a structure deemed illegal by the International Court of Justice. Palestine now consists of enclaves surrounded by illegal Israeli settlements, military outposts and checkpoints.

The simple fact that is always suppressed is this: Palestine is a land under occupation. Of the total Palestinian population of 10.5 million, only 1.3 million live in Israel as citizens. Nearly 4.5 million Palestinians of the West Bank and Gaza have lived under occupation since 1948 - at first under Egypt and Jordan; since 1967 under Israeli rule. The partition of Palestine and the enforced exodus of 750,000 Arabs from their ancestral lands is known to Palestinians as Al Nakba, ‘the catastrophe'. It was and remains a gross injustice.

The US-Israeli strategic alliance is not a secret. Military co-operation has progressed to mutual preparation for urban warfare. Recently, the US Army helped construct an ‘Arab' town, known as Baladia, in the Negev desert in terrain similar to Gaza. This place functions as Israel's National Urban Training Centre. The mock town includes mosques, markets, densely‑packed housing, narrow alleyways and a fake refugee camp. These facilities are used to train infantry in the type of combat expected in Gaza and Lebanon. It was opened in mid‑2007. Many of the Israeli troops currently in Gaza will have spent time there.

[anajmi]

agree that is too late to salvage the impression on both ladies my relative and the Christian Arab.

Actually, the christian arab probably knew the context of the ayah but chose to ignore it just like most of us do!! If the jews and the christians acknowledged the true context of the ayah, would they be able to blame everything on Islam and Quran like the earlier author you posted from did?

[Ozdundee]

Anajmibhai I want to get your comment on what the Quran means by below

And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

There are several ayats after that...what does it really mean ...

[Dr Fatema]

Who to blame ? Funny question.
Answer is " Ill deeds of Wahabis-10% of Muslim population (Actually they are worse than non-muslim Kafirs )".
Other 90% muslims are suffering.

[anajmi]

nd when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

Keep this at the back of your mind. When a terrorist cell is discovered in the US, what do the authorities do?

The prophet (saw) got the call from Allah through Jibraeel (as) to spread the word of Allah. He started doing that first in secret and then in the open. The people around him disapproved of the message. They were offended by him. They opposed him. Then they threatened him. People who decided to follow him were tortured brutally. Some were even killed. They plotted to kill the prophet (saw) too and because of that, the prophet (saw) had to escape in the middle of the night and migrate to Madina. A lot of his followers had left the city earlier. They went to Madina where they were accepted with open arms. People converted to Islam and the prophet (saw) was able to establish the Islamic government and formed peace treaties with the Jewish and the Christian communities of Madina.

But remember, these people were kicked out of their homes, tortured and killed simply for believing in a different religion. They were delivering the message of the Quran without any violence. So, there are wars that happen between the Muslims in Madina and the pagans in Mecca. Eventually, the muslims win. They peacefully march in Mecca with a 100,000 people. The last war was won without any bloodshed. The prophet (saw) forgave and let go even the woman who had killed and maimed his uncle.

Then came revelation. The prophet (saw) was commanded to give 4 months of time to the enemies of the prophet (saw) and Islam. They had four months to decide what to do. Whether to accept Islam, or to leave Mecca and Madina and find livelihood elsewhere. But if they did not leave in 4 months, didn't become muslim, then they were to be killed. Remember this is command of God. But only with the prophet (saw) does God give time. When the people of Lut (as) were destroyed, they weren't given any time. When the people of Nuh (as) were destroyed, they weren't given any time. Same case with any other prophet that you can think of mentioned in the Quran or the bible. The difference being how the punishment was delivered. With the prophet Mohammad (saw) the punishment was delivered through the Muslim army. The punishment was postponed by 4 months when the criminals were given an opportunity to reform.

One other important thing, this kind of punishment happens only during the time when there is a prophet present amongst you and you fight against the prophet. This is not a generic rule that applies for all times. This command was given to the prophet (saw) and is not for every muslim in every time. Otherwise, only ISIS is the true muslim entity and the rest of us are all disbelievers.

Look at this video for a beautiful explanation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wI3XYnc1YVQ

He refers to a beautiful ayah of the Quran in the end and explains that there will always be people who are guided by the word of the Quran and those that are led into misguidance by the word of the Quran, but those who are led into misguidance are inherently corrupt.

Now coming back to what the US does when a terrorist cell is discovered. Are they given 4 months to reform? At least here they are sent to languish in prison but when they find a cell in other countries, an immediate drone strike is ordered to kill them. For national security!!! The prophet (saw) did it for national security too!!

[Ozdundee]

Good answer...

So there are certain verses that are historical record while others are custom that are to be practised.

How are the verses flagged so a person reading the translation knows which is which.

Meanwhile watch the video

http://youtu.be/WMXiRTajigo

[anajmi]

Every single verse of the Quran has been explained by many scholars through the centuries. There are many well known Tafaseer available on the internet. Nauman Ali Khan himself has his own tafseer fully captured on his web site. If you have doubt about any ayah of the Quran, do a search. The internet is a great tool to help muslims of today learn Islam. But avoid jewish and christian explanations of verses of the Quran. Assume from the get go that they are misleading.

[feelgud]

I once asked the Pakistani politician Imran Khan why his fellow citizens were so keen on conspiracy theories. “They’re lied to all the time by their leaders,” he replied. “If a society is used to listening to lies all the time . . . everything becomes a conspiracy.”

The “We’ve been lied to” argument goes only so far. Scepticism may be evidence of a healthy and independent mindset; but conspiracism is a virus that feeds off insecurity and bitterness. As the former Pakistani diplomat Husain Haqqani has admitted, “the contemporary Muslim fascination for conspiracy theories” is a convenient way of “explaining the powerlessness of a community that was at one time the world’s economic, scientific, political and military leader”.

Nor is this about ignorance or illiteracy. Those who promulgate a paranoid, conspiratorial world-view within Muslim communities include the highly educated and highly qualified, the rulers as well as the ruled. A recent conspiracy theory blaming the rise of Islamic State on the US government, based on fabricated quotes from Hillary Clinton’s new memoir, was publicly endorsed by Lebanon’s foreign minister and Egypt’s culture minister.

Where will it end? When will credulous Muslims stop leaning on the conspiracy crutch? We blame sinister outside powers for all our problems – extremism, despotism, corruption and the rest – and paint ourselves as helpless victims rather than indepen­dent agents. After all, why take responsibility for our actions when it’s far easier to point the finger at the CIA/Mossad/the Jews/the Hindus/fill-in-your-villain-of-choice?

As the Egyptian intellectual Abd al-Munim Said once observed, “The biggest problem with conspiracy theories is that they keep us not only from the truth, but also from confronting our faults and problems.” They also make us look like loons. Can we give it a rest, please?

Mehdi Hasan is an New Statesman contributing writer, and works for al-Jazeera English and the Huffington Post UK where this column is crossposted
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/20 ... y-theories

[Ozdundee]

Anajmi Bhai and brother MF thank you for your cooperation, these discussions are important to understand whether the violent behaviour or motivation of those extremists is motivated by ideological interpretation and how to predict and prevent it. It is also quite startling with serious media articles many are true, and many may be provocative , however we cannot turn a blind eye , it is difficult to reconcile the core message of peace with what is evident by those who display abhorrent acts.

The questioning is not for fun there are people with me who reviewing your comment as one channel of understanding underlying issues as they scan for other knowledge sources.

What your are implying there is a spread of interpretation , some soft while some rough...and as there is no common authority it means anyone can Pick and choose and apply the Quran and ideology as they fit. That is like saying I will leave a set of knives on the table and ask teenagers to decide what they want to do with them..some will peel fruits to share while a few will stab each other depending on their mood or upbringing.

Or is it a convenient way of hiding the obvious behind smooth talking and trying to assimilate peacefully ? We cannot apply lip stick and hope attention will go away. People who share the name islam have in the last 20 years done acts that has provoked scrutiny and well we have to roll with it and not hide our heads in the sand. Some will blame global conspiracy , well so be it the fact is the issues are in front of us and we have to deal with it if we are confident that we are part of a peaceful religion.

There are many pages if one searches the internet, which describe the statement of violence and advice of violence from the Quran, I was surprised too, they are so many and if one lists them together they become quote worrying. Some may say they are intentionally to cause and defame islam , but many are quite descriptive and well researched.

If I accept your position then are you not self contradicting by saying don't literally read it and use mediators ?

Others have commented that as the old and new bible were reviewed to pacify it, yet in Islam we have not reached that stage, and those who have tried it like Aga Khani, Ahmediya and even Bohras , they have been classed as innovators . Individuals including like myself obviously will be labelled as Apostate , and by fundamentalists interpretation I may be nullifying my faith and be damned, I personally don't agree because the real spirituality I follow convinces me that a strong faith is based on robust belief and reasoning while I am trying to deep dive research to understand my faith better rather than take it at face value. It also helps my work deal with real world issues of community assimilation and law .

[anajmi]

People sometimes insist that the correct interpretation of the Quran is the one that is being followed by the terrorists. Well, there is nothing I can do to change their minds. There is no need to change the interpretation of the Quran. Cause every interpretation will result in the creation of a few terrorists and those that agree with the interpretation of the terrorists!!

Apparently, Islamic State guys went to study the Quran, understood it correctly, came out of class and started killing people. No one actually thinks about what has been going on in the middle east for the last decade. It is so much easier to just blame the Quran than your own actions.

[Munira_RV]

People sometimes insist that the correct interpretation of the Quran is the one that is being followed by the terrorists. Well, there is nothing I can do to change their minds. There is no need to change the interpretation of the Quran. Cause every interpretation will result in the creation of a few terrorists and those that agree with the interpretation of the terrorists!!

Apparently, Islamic State guys went to study the Quran, understood it correctly, came out of class and started killing people. No one actually thinks about what has been going on in the middle east for the last decade. It is so much easier to just blame the Quran than your own actions.

Many people, many interpretations, many killings! Now who will categorise which is the correct interpretation? That is why Imam is required. The one who is Godly appointed i.e. Mohamed PBUH will tell the correct interpretations. And after Mohammed PBUH what will happen - again many interpretations?! To check this Mohamed PBUH appointed his successor Ali ibn Abi Talib (A) on the ground of Gadeer, he followed by the first Imam Hasan (A),.... Imam Tayyeb (A)

Should Muslim have followed one Ameer appointed by Mohamed PBUH - then today there would have been no different interpretations of Quran. Remember Mohamed PBUH said, "I'm leaving two bulky assets among you, one Quran and second Ahlyul Bayt, both go together."

[anajmi]

By the way are you related to badrijanab? Cause I dont believe that badrijanab was such a big coward to get his manhood cut off. Or maybe he is following in the footsteps of his hiding Imam.

[Munira_RV]

Prophet Mohamed PBUH and Hazrat Abu Bakr too went hiding at the time of Hijrat to save their life from Prophet enemies. So per your yardstick both are cowards!

Forty out of 63 years (63.5%) of Prophet Mohamed PBUH life, he remain in seclusion like Fatimi Imam of current time is.

Mola Ali (A) was giving correct interpretations of Quran still all Sunni's waged war against him lead by Hazrat Ayesha. The then Sunni's have not listened to Mola Ali (A) , nothing has changed since then so it is difficult to believe that even if Imam would have been out of seclusion Sunni's could have obeyed him, like they didn't obeyed Ali (A), indeed went on war to kill Ali (A)!

[anajmi]

I've had this conversation with a badrijanab before. Please refer to my posts that cost him his manhood.

[humanbeing]

Should Muslim have followed one Ameer appointed by Mohamed PBUH - then today there would have been no different interpretations of Quran. Remember Mohamed PBUH said, "I'm leaving two bulky assets among you, one Quran and second Ahlyul Bayt, both go together."

What happened to the Shiaas who followed Imam Ali ? Can they stay united ? all the shias together are more divided then any other followers !

[Munira_RV]

Should Muslim have followed one Ameer appointed by Mohamed PBUH - then today there would have been no different interpretations of Quran. Remember Mohamed PBUH said, "I'm leaving two bulky assets among you, one Quran and second Ahlyul Bayt, both go together."

What happened to the Shiaas who followed Imam Ali ? Can they stay united ? all the shias together are more divided then any other followers !

Were all Shia's of Ali (A) in era of Ali (A) united or divided in sub-sects? All united. Like during era of Prophet PBUH all were one so no sect, after Prophet PBUH the then Muslims not obeyed Mohamed of their era (i.e. Mola Ali), so they deviated and formed their Sunni sect. Those who obeyed the Mohamed PBUH of their era (i.e. Mola Ali) they stood united as true representer of Islam.

In later eras, like Shias of Ali stood with Ali so does the true Shia of Ali stood with Ali (A) of their era (i.e. Fatimi Imams).

So Islam has not divided, it only addressed with additional reference: In era of Ali (A) correct Islam was referred as "Shia Islam", later, "Ismaili Shia", later "Dawoodi Bohras Shia". Rest all who branched out from Islam formed their own kingship and labelled it as Islam!

The difference between Islam (Dawoodi Bohras) and others (impostors) can be currently easily verified:
1. Bukhari and Muslim says, after Mola Ali (A) took caliphate and offered Namaz, Muslims were heard speaking among themselves, "Attending namaz under Ali's made us remembered that exactly that was the way we use to offer namaz under Prophet Mohamed PBUH." So you see Sunni's namaz is not the namaz as recited by Prophet Mohamed PBUH.

2. Bukhari and Muslim reports, Molatina Fatima bint Prophet PBUH was so angry with Hazrat Abu Bakr that she did 'wasiyat' to not allow them to participate in her 'mayyat'. We are Fatimi's. others are with those with whom Fatima bint Prophet PBUH did boycott.

3. "Bismillah... Raheem" is the first verse of Quran, Dawoodi Bohras recite it, but they do not; they are stopped by Allah, so they are unable to recite complete Sura Fatiha, incomplete recitation makes namaz null and void. Despite acknowledging that it is the first verse of Sura, still see the might of Allah's plan - they are devoid of beginning with the beginning (unable to recite Bismillah). Further, word "Aameen" is not part of Quran, only they shout it loud, anything recited stranger of Quran in namaz nullifies it so they by shouting "aameen" have never recited any namaz in their life.

List is toooo long... above is sufficient indication.

[Ozdundee]

Muniraben...on what basis are you stating that Shias and their imam have the true interpretations .

If that is the case what is the Shia interpretation of the Sura I mentioned above.

Please tell me it is not the case that Shias rerun the massacre of Karbala and curse the khalifas provoking trouble ? The trouble makers in Middle East are also Shias and Sunni, the behaviours during matam is quite violent and unnatural motivated grief.

Anajmibhai how sure are you your preferred translators are more authentic ?

One of the solution is suppress the statements promoting hate and anger. I understand editing with statements that means interfering with the Quran which is not permitted , which is a very .relying on priests to translate is open to manipulation. I know for Bohras this is not am issue as majority cannot understand Arabic , and they rely on scholars and priests for direction. Worth pondering!