Shirk, Kufr and Bidaat in Bohra Islam

[Akhtiar Wahid]

Asalaam'alykum wa rehmatullah Brothers,

Being part of dawoodi bohra culture and Islamic sect i was blindfolded most of my life and did not bother to know and ask about other sects in Islam and what do they do.
but lately, after this dispute over the successor ship of two claimants in Dawoodi bohras i started to question myself and start from the basics, being our holy book Quran and right Hadiths for examples the most relevant Sahih Hadiths.
Now i am not saying that i have been convinced by Sunnis or extreme Sunnis (wahabis follower of Abdul Wahab Ideology). But it does raise a lot of questions on how we follow Islam religion.
I have been viewing videos of two scholars (Sheikh Tauseef ur Rehman and Sheikh Rabbani) who claim to be Ahle-Hadees or Ahle-Sunnah or Salafi madhab.
They have opened some eye opening facts about Shirk and Kufr done by certain Sects of Islam who have reached the heights of transgression and have become rafdhis.
Sunni sects like Barelvi and deobandi also promote grave worshiping and tomb worshiping, asking deceased ones to fulfil their wishes, putting of galef or chaddar on their graves, building large and attractive graves, concept of shifa water and blessed food items, following teeja, saathwa, nawma, ashara, chehlum shareef, Kul Shareef and barsi. celebrating Urus of deceased ones, celebrating Milad of deceased ones.
One point which totally changed my philosophy of dawoodi bohra version of Islam is when the speaker raised a question " DID PROPHET MOHAMMED (SAW) DID ALL THESE THINGS?" and to my awe and shock the answer was CLEAR NO!!!!! there is no mentioning of going to graves, praying near graves, doing teeja, chehlum, barsi etc., nothing
SO I JUST NEED A POINT OF VIEW FROM THE LEARNT FORUM MEMBERS, THAT IF RASOOL ALLAH NABI PAK (SAW) DID NOT DO ALL THESE THINGS, WHY THE HELL WE ARE DOING IT, WE SHOULD BE FOLLOWING WHAT PROPHET MOHAMMED (SAW) DID, BECAUSE HE IS THE MESSENGER CHOSEN FOR ISLAM (PEACE OF ALL RELIGIONS).

[Akhtiar Wahid]

If i do not get any reasonable or convincing answers it would be more than enough for me to consider!

[fustrate_Bohra]

Akhtiar bhai, Rasulallah himself was above all the human the day he was chosen by allah as a messenger so their is no question arise of him worshipping any human grave.

I dont find any harm if i go for ziarat for any leaders who had done lots of work and sacrifices for ISLAM. My intention of doing ziarat is RESPECT and not WORSHIP.

This is my personal thoughts, may be others who are knowledgeable can shade more light on this.

[morela]

Walekum assalam Akhtiyar bhai, I too have reached the same conclusion.

@frustratebohra:
Bohras\barelvis who goto dargahs usually invoke the dead too(yes all of them do it, I myself used to do it, and it is explicitly taught to do so)

eg: Invoking " Ya Ali madad, Mushkil Kusha\Wigna harta" when one visits the dargah in najaf.

ziarat is sunnah but only if it is done on a valid shariah compliant grave and not dargah, visiting a grave which is shariah compliant is different from visiting a dargah which is forbidden.

[Akhtiar Wahid]

one of my relative went for the ziyarat of SMB (RA) and STS (RA).....some teenager was their making dua loudly saying that " MOULA KALEY MEHRA BOARD NA EXAMS CHE MEHRE PASS KARI DO".
what the hell is this......how can anyone ask a dead human being to do something for him, it is similar to ganesh pooja and other bhagwan pooja!
Dai also insist us and say that dua mangjo qabr par moula (madhfoon) si, DUA IS ONLY TO GOD, no moula no one!

[morela]

Also the 2d idols of bewe mola are worse then ganpati idols as it involves shirk,deception using isalmic names and disobedience to prophjet pbub

[Akhtiar Wahid]

It is funny how abdes our fighting over 53rd dai......doing NAREY BAAZI NATAK MAULA MAULA MUFFADAL MAULA! but are not here on this thread for this topic to answer and clear my doubts.

[Akhtiar Wahid]

I have noticed a strange trend in Bohras now days, when they do not have any answers to any question they will go Maula Maula Muffadal Maula, before it was even Mushkil Kusha Ali and ya allah madad now clearly Shirk-e-azeem and kufr and rafdhiyat they have entered by saying MAULA MAULA MUFFADAL MAULA!

[morela]

As you said about Meraj rabbani , do see his most popular series "Hadd ho gayi" where he exposes all the deviant aqaaaids of various sects like barelvi , bohra etc. A must see for all Muslims:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UbDl7kzLis

[qutub_mamajiwala]

bro akhtar
as ur listening to these two scholars who have a little what extreme views, do listen to
sheikh tahir ul qadri--he is also vry learned and sunni--and he has vry balanced views.
he loves ahlebayt also. he has given many sermons. plz do listen, and u will get a clear picture

[qutub_mamajiwala]

he has also aruged and debated with salafi ideology on point to point basis.

[fustrate_Bohra]

I have noticed a strange trend in Bohras now days, when they do not have any answers to any question they will go Maula Maula Muffadal Maula, before it was even Mushkil Kusha Ali and ya allah madad now clearly Shirk-e-azeem and kufr and rafdhiyat they have entered by saying MAULA MAULA MUFFADAL MAULA!

Because there is a saying "If you repeat same lie many times, people will believe it to be true"

Though am not follower of kq saheb. I must say inspite of all the money, muscle,political and abdes power MS is having. Kq saheb is giving sleepless night to mighty MS.

[morela]

Tahir qadri himself is a barelvi and seeks sajda, qawwali much like how muffi, burhanuddin:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Omzs-jclsHc

Recently he called all people and asked them to recite 'hare krishna", "o jesus" etc to all religious gurus, for which even his own barelvi people in mumbai put up posters all over Mumbai refuting him and declaring him "kafir" : Note this was done by barelvis in Mumbai, they even came up with a website dedicated to refute him:

www.tahirulpadri.com note this website was created by barelvis themselves who percieved threat from qadri over their dargah business

[qutub_mamajiwala]

bro morela
i dont know tahirulqadri is barelvi or whatever.
i am not even interested in all those crap sects.
and least of all the salafi--who go around beating women for modesty dress as if sky will fall down
if women dont dress according to their stupid code.
what i am interested is after listening to him do u get more learned or not?
to hell with whaterver sect he belongs.
i have listend his numerous sermons and i find him quite intelligent regarding islam.
he has debated vry brilliantly each by point to point regarding ahlebayt.
may be salafist dont like him precisely for this point only.
as for ur comments--may be it is true. i dont know. but that doesnt negate the fact he says
in his sermons.

[Dr Fatema]

This forum is fully infested with Wahabi morons like Akhtiar Wahid . Writing nonsense everytime.

[qutub_mamajiwala]

ben fatema
i dont think aktiar wahid is a wahhabi, but many here wants him to become one.
they just grab upon any situation or circumstances or confusion or harassment or delusion to impart thier
twisted view regarding islam
thats why i said him to listen to tahirul qadri

[morela]

bro qutub

These people like tahirul qadri , use their eloquence and heavy words to decieve , I have myself caught him many times quoting lies, even giving incorrect refrences or quoting half hadith to justify his points, I mysef used to listen to him daily on Qtv, I have almost heard most of his lectures.

Also see the video i posted , he seeks sajda and even goes to dargahs and directly talks to dead to show others as if he has some "super power" In another lecture he said that in a dream he invited prophet pbuh and paid for his hotel bills etc.


Quran also describes such people who use "mitthi mitthi waato" to misguide and destroy our basic islamic aqeedah, they are nothing but satan in disguise , Men of knowledge easily identify such frauds by the will of Allah.


And regarding salafi beating I have never seen this , except what the media defames it which is satanic chaal

[WiththenameofAllah]

Brother Akhtir Wahod, I agree with you. I am a bohra unfortunately but only because of my family. Allah has created human beings as ' Ashraf ul Makhlooqat' they think , we think ! but because of these leaders Allah has made our hearts blind.
Grave worshiping , urus , chelum etc are only means of food for the community and a social gathering. Allah's deen is not such. That is why bohras are also stopped from understanding Quran.
i was recently questioned by a person that bohra only think good for their community and this is so true as did our leader raise any voice against Israel or helped Palestine? NO ! were we not declared as one by Prophet Mohammad S.A.W ?
The religion of Allah is only Islam.

Tahir ul qadri is a big cheat. Power leads to corruption and these leaders do that make fool of the people following them.

[Munira_RV]

Akhtiar Wahid,

1. Can you show where Bukhari or Muslim says, "Do not visit grave of your passed one"?

2. Which book of Bohras says, "Worship graves"?

3. Why do Salafi/Wahabi or your alike kiss a stone (Hajre aswad)?! That stone has no life, oh! u r committing shirk per your own standard!

4. Prophet Mohamed PBUH is dead then why you send prayers (Salwaat) on him and seek his blessings in return?!!!

5. Your terrorist lords have conveniently not told: Quran says (Sura Imran: 169), "Martyrs are not dead they are alive and getting their sustenance from Allah, you will not understand it." So thought inside the grave dead body of Ameer-al-mumineen Mola Ali a.s. or Imam Hasan a.s. or Imam Haqim bi Amrillah a.s. or Imam Aamir a.s. is lying but per Quran they are alive, getting their sustenance but you cannot understand. So prove from your misguided Salafi literature that says it is prohibited to meet any alive person whom do you like?

6. By the way, your terrorist lords and yourself recite following kalma: "Ashhado anna Mohammadn Rasoolallah" - you all say, "You bear witness that Mohammed is the Prophet", instead you should say kalma as: "Muhammad was Messenger of God" In Arabic, it is "kana Muhammad Rasulullah". You see by using "is" and not "was" you and your terrorist lords too endorsing Dawoodi Bohras line of dogma that material body of Mohammad is though dead but his is alive. And to meet a person who is alive is very noble and good act in line with Islamic Shariyat.

[Dr Fatema]

Million salute to sister Munira_RV for posting a fitting reply to Idiots like Akhtiar.

[Akhtiar Wahid]

Asalaam'alykum sister fatema and Munira.

I would like to clear the air, i am not wahabi or anything, I am Muslimeen-o-mumineen follower of Islam the religion which was brought onto by one and only god Allah (SWT) to his messnegers starting from Nabi Adam (AS) to Nabi Mustafa Mohammed (SAW)and currently attached with dawoodi bohra cult due to peer and family elements.
kissing of hajre aswad is done because Prophet Mohammed (SAW) used to do it, it was a sunnah as this stone from heaven and it is not worldly at all, do not twist it by saying that similarly we can kiss graves and make duas and ask from the respected deceased ones to fulfill are duas this is SHIRK-E-AZEEM only Allah (SWT) answers are prayers and duas, no one has the power and capability other than Allah (SWT) to answer are prayers and duas. If grave worshiping was part of our religion than can you point out from any Islamic fiqh or akhbaar book in this world
regarding prophet Mohammed (SWT) practicing and advocating such practice please oblige to answer my question.

[qutub_mamajiwala]

these terrorist are fuelled by salafi wahabi ideology which teaches to every other version and religion is wrong
and followers of that should be killed, beating women for their dress code, stonning for adultery,
but letting go off the man who committed more crime than her, using them as sex slaves.
there was this case one year ago in saudi arabia where the most aalim and scholar and imam of mosque was handed just 6 months
prison coz he beat severly and burn private parts of her 9 yr daughter. and on the top of it the judge claimed that
he cannot give more punishment coz she was his daughter and how bad the father would have felt while doing this.
so he already has got punishment from seeing the suffering of her daughter, he only did out of his conviction that
the daughter went out to play without his permission and he suspected she would do zina.
this is was only the tip of iceberg as this came out due to a sneak saudi reporter. there are millions of case like this
not coming out due to the iron curtain of saudi govt and perverted mullas.
saudi is the worst country present on the face of this earth.
this can be also ascertained by the fact that it was the only one of the two countries which recognised the barbaric
taleban govt in afghanistan. the other being pakistan

[Akhtiar Wahid]

Asalam'alyukum Qutub bhai,

Bhai you are conveniently pointing out that who is what, You are saying Saudi is a worst country, brother saudi arabia is the blessed country which houses Kabah-tullah Makkah Mukarama and Masjid-e-nabawi Madina Munawara, this is the only country which is a Proof of Islam (how can it be worse?)
As regarding the sharia law, can u give me a clipping or a link on where such kind of information is posted, medias now days is biased and filled with lies and deceit to degrade certain countries for their personal benefits.
Saudi Sharia law is the most appropriate and accurate law according to our Islam and Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) if it was so terrifying and tormenting no one would think of living in that country at all.
Bohras are not pure as milk, Zina is done by miyasaabs, Mullahsaabs, aamilsaabs and even Shezadas (Malik-ul-Ashter) infamous for his bad deeds with women folks.
A lot of bohras drink and do adultery without any fear, that is the reason why they had to come up with such strict actions that too recently about Moharamat.
A lot of bohras cheat and rob in businesses whom they are working for.
A lot of bohras are involved in Riba (interest) and do it secretly.
A lot of bohras are two faced and have double standards for their selfish motives.
If bohra faith was the right one guided by Allah (SWT) then why the hell their are so many divisions in your version of Islam and recent dispute for the claim of Dai-ship.
you people are involved with all ill practices like land grabbing, money laundering, black mailing and bribing higher officials.
If you people are muslims than why does not Maula (DAI) declare all his property with waqf property which is run with legitimacy and care of Ummah.
all hindu practices like wadhwanu, naryal bashing, mashriq maghrib taweez, fortune telling, temporary marriage (mutaah), grave worshipers, hand folding, prostrating in front of a human, chanting maula maula instead of Allah Allah (SWT).

[morela]

Sister Muniraben:

replies
1) & 2) Visiting a grave is sunnah, NOT a dargah, a dargah is not a grave , a grave has to be shariah compliant for it to be called a grave according to shariah. bukhari, muslim, daimul islam does say that it is haram to make dargahs, making so renders the grave invalid. This has been posted with proofs , do search "illegal graves", or the active front page post "dargahs allowed in islam"


will soon reply to the other points , as busy currently

in the meantime do read this:

http://www.systemoflife.com/articles/aq ... h-and-ijma

http://www.systemoflife.com/articles/ta ... g-waseelah

[Munira_RV]

Dear Morela, only one question to you: Why there is solid grave/structure (dargah) over the burial place of Prophet Mohamed PBUH?

One should do what Prophet PBUH did, that is only called Sunnat. So having dargah of saints and martyrs is indeed practicing Sunnat of Prophet PBUH.

So either Bukhari & Muslim are false in forging hadeeth or Prophet Mohamed PBUH is (mazallah) not correct in having structure (dargah) over his burial place. You are free to choose former or latter. Dawoodi Bohras went with Prophet Mohamed PBUH and you (and alike) went with Bukhari and Muslim. Bohras are happy with our Prophet Mohamed PBUH, you may remain happy with your Bukhari and Muslim.

[morela]

sister muniraben , nice question, equally excellent response:

According to Muslims hadith sources of both Shia and Sunnis, it is forbidden to raise tombs on graves as the Prophet (salallahu alayhi wassalam) had ordered to level the graves as reported in several authentic narrations (Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم))

That is why Sunni scholars of the area of Najd suggested that the graves should be leveled and the muslim ruler in authority carried it out after he made the decision. So, the decision was of the ruler and not of the scholars. They merely suggested and advised based upon the Sunnah.

Is the ruling on Prophet's grave different?

No, not at all. The shar'i ruling is clear that all graves without any exception should be leveled, no matter whose grave it is. Several scholars have passed fataawa that it is not permissible to have the tomb over the Prophet's grave including al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah(The official permanent committee authorized to issue fatwa headed by the grand Muft of Saudi). So this is clear.

Then why is it not levelled?

As, I told you before, it is upon the muslim authority to level it. The scholars have explained the shar’i rulings concerning the building of this dome. However, there are many people who are not aware of this prohibition in Islam and are emotionally attached to this dome. Moreover, there are many innovators who misguide people to venerate this dome and attach sanctity to it. Now, these ordinary people get upset when they see the domes getting destroyed though it is according to the Sharee'ah. These misguided Imaams incite the ordinary people against the muslim authorities. So, in order to ward off chaos and fitnah, it has not been destroyed yet. Because, levelling it will cause a chaos among people which might lead to greater corruption.

This is similar to the event where a beduoin urinated inside the mosque and the Prophet(salallahu alayhi wassalam) stopped the people when they went to beat him. Thus, a greater evil is prevented by bearing a lesser one. The ruler of the kingdom has postponed its levelling till the time when situation gets better.

Was the green dome built during the time of 4 caliphs

No
The dome was built many hundreds of years after the demise of the prophet pbuh. The prophet had died in the house of Hazrat Aisha which was attached to the prophet's mosque in Madinah and was buried in that house itself as according to Muhammad pbuh all prophets need to be buried in exactly the same spot they die. Hence the prophet ended up being buried in the house of his wife Ayesha. Hundreds of years later the house was refurbished into a tomb i.e @Green Dome:
678 AH during the reign of Mamluk Sultan Al Mansur Qalawun,[3] the original structure of the tomb was made out of wood and was colorless,[4] painted white and blue in later restorations. After a serious fire struck the Mosque of the Prophet in Medina in 1481, the mosque and dome had been burnt and a restoration project was initiated by Sultan Qaitbay who had most of the wooden base replaced by a brick structure in order to prevent the collapse of the dome in the future, and used plates of lead to cover the new wooden dome. The building, including the Tomb of the Prophet, was extensively renewed through Qaitbay's patronage.[5] The current dome was added in 1818 by the Ottoman Sultan Mahmud II.[1]The dome was first painted green in 1837.[2]




Conclusion
The green dome we see today was not present for 600 years since the prophet pbuh and its construction is relatively recent which was done by a Sultan who did not pay heed to the teachings of Islam. It is said that the Ulema scholars of the time had warned him against this tomb construction but he did not pay heed to them and continued the construction of the tomb, later he was besieged shortly after the construction of the tomb. Scholars of the time even suggested that he was besieged because of divine wrath for constructing a tomb as an innovation(Bidat) in Islam.
I hope it will be leveled by the authorities in the kingdom according to what the Prophet (salallahu alayhi wassalam) ordered, by the will of Allah.

[WiththenameofAllah]

Walikum asalam
Dear Sister Munira,

Surah Dhariyat:56
And I did not create the jinn and mankind except to worship Me.

Prophet S.A.W himself did not build the structure on his grave. Sunnah is what is done by Prophet Mohammad S.A.W himself. Building graves is an act done by people not him.
Dawoodi Bohras did not went with Prophet S.A.W , they went astray. Some simple question if you could answer,
Islam has five pillars & second pillar is Namaz. Then when the leader visits any country why the people rush in namaz and run for the deedar of their leader? which is more important ?
Similar way Tawheed is the first pillar of Islam i.e. Oneness of Allah. One of the 99 names of Allah is Al-Wahab ( the give of gifts) so when you to a grave and ask give me this that you negate the attributes of Allah. Who can give you better the one who created you , the earth and the heavens and that is in between or the one lying in the grave?
THINK !
Surah Bani Israel:23
Do not make [as equal] with Allah another deity and [thereby] become censured and forsaken.
It will be better if we talk with a tone that helps us to ponder than arguing.Human Beings have the capacity of thinking.

And Allah knows the best.

[humanbeing]

You are saying Saudi is a worst country, brother saudi arabia is the blessed country which houses Kabah-tullah Makkah Mukarama and Masjid-e-nabawi Madina Munawara, this is the only country which is a Proof of Islam (how can it be worse?).

Which delusional world you live in. List of Saudi royalties ayyashi, double standard of shariah council’s mullahs and general hypocrisy of Saudi muslims can run really long and sickening !

However, no one is milk-washed, everyone has flaws, but just to clarify KSA is no humble cow.

[tasneempati]

More frankly the so called custodian of two holy mosques & his followers are JEWS by genes. They are cowards and blind followers of their bretherns in west.

You are saying Saudi is a worst country, brother saudi arabia is the blessed country which houses Kabah-tullah Makkah Mukarama and Masjid-e-nabawi Madina Munawara, this is the only country which is a Proof of Islam (how can it be worse?).

Which delusional world you live in. List of Saudi royalties ayyashi, double standard of shariah council’s mullahs and general hypocrisy of Saudi muslims can run really long and sickening !

However, no one is milk-washed, everyone has flaws, but just to clarify KSA is no humble cow.

[topiwala]

bad state of affairs!