The principles of Islam

Given modern distractions, the need to understand Islam better has never been more urgent. Through this forum we can share ideas and hopefully promote the true spirit of Islam which calls for peace, justice, tolerance, inclusiveness and diversity.
khokawala
Posts: 184
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:49 pm

The four principles: Illustration

#31

Unread post by khokawala » Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:18 am

Image

khokawala
Posts: 184
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:49 pm

Re: The four principles: Illustration

#32

Unread post by khokawala » Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:29 am

I am unable to see the pic : http://pasteboard.co/klp1xbA.png

how to add it here:
Image

fayyaaz
Posts: 528
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:40 pm

Re: The principles of Islam

#33

Unread post by fayyaaz » Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:47 am

Mad mullas like khokawala and anajmi should be gently persuaded to let anyone to worship anything and at the same time call themselves anything whether their fanatical view of their religion allows it or not. There is nothing wrong if a Krishna-worshiping Hindu calls himself a Muslim.

It has been amply demonstrated that all religions are regressive. Their views regarding the universe are totally wrong and, if that is the case, they cannot be trusted to give moral or ethical lessons either.

If mad mullas cannot live with that then enlightened humanity should consider incarcerating them at best or vasectomizing them at worst so they do not perpetuate their evil agenda in their children.

khokawala
Posts: 184
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:49 pm

Re: The principles of Islam

#34

Unread post by khokawala » Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:58 pm

The views of athiests are obviously anti islamic and birds of same feather flock together (biradr+fayyz) nothing suprising.

and your claims are demonstrably false.

Humsafar
Posts: 2608
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: The principles of Islam

#35

Unread post by Humsafar » Tue Jan 13, 2015 1:20 pm

fayyaaz wrote:Their views regarding the universe are totally wrong and, if that is the case, they cannot be trusted to give moral or ethical lessons either.
That's reductive reasoning at its worse. Morality and ethics are not absolute values, but are rather function of history and culture.

khokawala
Posts: 184
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:49 pm

Re: The principles of Islam

#36

Unread post by khokawala » Tue Jan 13, 2015 1:21 pm

fayaz, ponder over this verse:

“There has indeed been an excellent example for you in Ibraaheem and those with him, when they said to their people: ‘Verily, we are free from you and whatever you worship besides Allaah. We have rejected you and there has commenced between us and you, enmity and hatred forever, until you believe in Allaah alone.’” [Mumtahanah: 4]

Wala (friendship) of mumineen and bara (excommunication) of Mushrikeen +kafir is fundamental tenant of Islam since all the prophets.

even jesus was against the pagans as well as pharisees (molvis who spread shirk+biddah)of his time.

fayyaaz
Posts: 528
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:40 pm

Re: The principles of Islam

#37

Unread post by fayyaaz » Tue Jan 13, 2015 1:27 pm

khokawala wrote:fayaz, ponder over this verse:

“There has indeed been an excellent example for you in Ibraaheem and those with him, when they said to their people: ‘Verily, we are free from you and whatever you worship besides Allaah. We have rejected you and there has commenced between us and you, enmity and hatred forever, until you believe in Allaah alone.’” [Mumtahanah: 4]

Wala (friendship) of mumineen and bara (excommunication) of Mushrikeen +kafir is fundamental tenant of Islam since all the prophets.

even jesus was against the pagans as well as pharisees (molvis who spread shirk+biddah)of his time.
Hindus do not worship Allah. I refuse to call them enemies. Like I said, the Quranic lesson has no relevance in this day and age. It is completely regressive.

fayyaaz
Posts: 528
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:40 pm

Re: The principles of Islam

#38

Unread post by fayyaaz » Tue Jan 13, 2015 1:28 pm

Humsafar wrote:
fayyaaz wrote:Their views regarding the universe are totally wrong and, if that is the case, they cannot be trusted to give moral or ethical lessons either.
That's reductive reasoning at its worse. Morality and ethics are not absolute values, but are rather function of history and culture.
Morality and ethics are not absolute. Agreed. But tell that to Sunnah and Quran-thumping fanatics!

khokawala
Posts: 184
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:49 pm

Re: The principles of Islam

#39

Unread post by khokawala » Tue Jan 13, 2015 1:32 pm

fayyaaz wrote:
khokawala wrote:fayaz, ponder over this verse:

“There has indeed been an excellent example for you in Ibraaheem and those with him, when they said to their people: ‘Verily, we are free from you and whatever you worship besides Allaah. We have rejected you and there has commenced between us and you, enmity and hatred forever, until you believe in Allaah alone.’” [Mumtahanah: 4]

Wala (friendship) of mumineen and bara (excommunication) of Mushrikeen +kafir is fundamental tenant of Islam since all the prophets.

even jesus was against the pagans as well as pharisees (molvis who spread shirk+biddah)of his time.
Hindus do not worship Allah. I refuse to call them enemies. Like I said, the Quranic lesson has no relevance in this day and age. It is completely regressive.
So you really dont believe in Quran? May I know since when and what caused you to become athiest?

Humsafar
Posts: 2608
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: The principles of Islam

#40

Unread post by Humsafar » Tue Jan 13, 2015 1:57 pm

fayyaaz wrote:
Humsafar wrote: That's reductive reasoning at its worse. Morality and ethics are not absolute values, but are rather function of history and culture.
Morality and ethics are not absolute. Agreed. But tell that to Sunnah and Quran-thumping fanatics!
That maybe so but to assume that Quranic morality is retrograde is facile.

fayyaaz
Posts: 528
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:40 pm

Re: The principles of Islam

#41

Unread post by fayyaaz » Tue Jan 13, 2015 2:26 pm

Humsafar wrote: That maybe so but to assume that Quranic morality is retrograde is facile.
Quran along with scriptures of other religions indeed lay down moral and ethical rules many of which humanity would value. They are best extracted from associated 'religious' baggage and neutralized so that they are acceptable to all of humanity. For example, one can be compassionate without being Buddhist or Muslim and so with other values.

As far as historical evolution of morality is concerned, Quran did not arise in absence of moral code. Indeed there is little in Quran about morality which did not predate its 'revelation'. It special flavor is due to traditions of tribalist Arabia.

Apart from moral code, there are judicial rules in the Quran, like distribution of inheritance, which may not sit well with other cultures. Most enlightened societies will re-evaluate these rules. Fanatics will not.

Most of Quran is about Allah, his worship and punishment if you do not worship. Not much of value for 5/6ths of humanity.

Mixing absolute morality with absolute judicial rules are characteristics of fanatics.

Humsafar
Posts: 2608
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: The principles of Islam

#42

Unread post by Humsafar » Tue Jan 13, 2015 2:38 pm

fayyaaz wrote: Mixing absolute morality with absolute judicial rules are characteristics of fanatics.
Exactly, fanatics only trade in absolutes. All I'm saying is that you cannot run down moral codes of any ideology on the basis of how fanatics would use them.

qutub_mamajiwala
Posts: 1051
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:17 am

Re: The principles of Islam

#43

Unread post by qutub_mamajiwala » Wed Jan 14, 2015 2:45 am

khokawala wrote:@mamaji sunnah is as preserved as how quran is.
sunnah is not preserved as of prophet, what is preserved is ummayyads ideology.
and ibn taimiyaah is a garbage person,of pre-historic times and should be dumped where he deserves.

khokawala
Posts: 184
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:49 pm

Re: The principles of Islam

#44

Unread post by khokawala » Wed Jan 14, 2015 6:27 am

Then what makes you believe that quran was preserved anyone can give this baseless excuse!

qutub_mamajiwala
Posts: 1051
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:17 am

Re: The principles of Islam

#45

Unread post by qutub_mamajiwala » Wed Jan 14, 2015 6:58 am

coz ali, hasan, husain, zainulabideen, jafferussaidq read the same quran and nobody has still claimed otherwise.
if somebody claims--he has to give substitute of real quran. and allah himself has guaranteed it. he did not guarantee for sunnah, coz sunnah is of his ahlebayt and not of his sahabah and ummayyads.
bukhari, muslim taimaiyyah came long after wards

khokawala
Posts: 184
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:49 pm

Re: The principles of Islam

#46

Unread post by khokawala » Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:49 pm

bro mamaji ;Infact there are more fabricated hadith then sahih hadith. This is where the science of hadith comes as Allah says "We have, Without doubt, sent down the Zikr(Zikr of Rasulallah): and we will assuredly guard it (from corruption) (Qur'an 15:9)" . Note QUran uses the word "zikr" and not "quran" , which means the whole "zikr" will be preserved of which Quran is a small but significant part.The scientific scrutiny of hadith enables us to distinguish the false hadith from the sahih ones. There are very stringent criteria and science to accept or reject a hadith

KA786110
Posts: 360
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:20 am

Re: The principles of Islam

#47

Unread post by KA786110 » Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:52 pm

khokawala wrote:bro mamaji ;Infact there are more fabricated hadith then sahih hadith. This is where the science of hadith comes as Allah says "We have, Without doubt, sent down the Zikr(Zikr of Rasulallah): and we will assuredly guard it (from corruption) (Qur'an 15:9)" . Note QUran uses the word "zikr" and not "quran" , which means the whole "zikr" will be preserved of which Quran is a small but significant part.The scientific scrutiny of hadith enables us to distinguish the false hadith from the sahih ones. There are very stringent criteria and science to accept or reject a hadith
Now ponder upon this dear :D :

Zaid bin Arqan reported: When the Prophet was returning from the Valedictory Pilgrimage, he halted at Ghadir al-Khum and said, "I am about to be summoned (by God) and I will respond (to His call). I am leaving in you two weighty things: one of them is bigger than other; the Book of God, and my Ahl al-Bayt. Beware how you shall treat them after me, for they shall not part from each other until you join me at the basin (on the judgment day) ( Mustadrak, 3:109, al-Muslim, 15:180, Masnad, 4:367, etc.)


As someone is very fond of saying this: Go Figure!

qutub_mamajiwala
Posts: 1051
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:17 am

Re: The principles of Islam

#48

Unread post by qutub_mamajiwala » Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:15 am

yes science is there bro
and by science it is proved that bukhari and muslim are garbage books and should be dumped.
in it there are many hadiths reported by grave digger abu hurraira which cannot be relied upon.
listen to hadith of ahlebayt only. that is true hadith