Disconnected Ismaili History - for those who seek knowledge

[salim]

...

[salim]

This is nothing new, non-believers have been calling our prophets, caliphs, Imams as play boys. It started right from Adam, Adam forcing his wife for a particular sex position, Eve's sexual desire and extra marital affair and it continued, here is a very small glimpse

• Davids extramarital affair with BathSheba
  Mosses rapping a 3 year old
  Jesus lusting for Mary Magdalene, and committing adulatory by kissing her the wrong way
  Muhammad marrying 7 or more wives including a six year old and including wife of his son
  How 2nd rightly guided caliph Umar and our first Imam Ali agreed for a marriage between Alis daughter who was around 10 years old and Umar who was around 60.
  Imam Hassan had 15 sons and 9 daughters from six wives and three named concubines. His wife poisoned him, so that she can marry her dream man.

You can say whatever you want, you can force us, kill us but we are not going to leave our prophets and Imams.

Well said brothers Salim and KA786110. These Jahils think they are Muslims but Allah SWT knows what they are! They do not know history of Islam from Adam to present day. What you wrote, brother Salim, must be news to these two idiots because they know only to generate fitnas against Ismailis. They do not know the history of Islam or Islam itself. Kudos to you, Salim for enlightening these two. This has been presented before but nothing soaks in. I am not surpised, they are brainless.

May Allah guide all of us to true path.

[JavedhJuma]

Most of the time, people do this with a extreme jealous. This is an age old tradition

In this case it is jealousy and ignorance. Ignorance is number One.

I am very proud of you and KA786110 who have immense knowledge. No wonder Ismailis are ahead of these jahils!
Ismailis do not go from site to site mudslinging like these jahils. Why? Because Imam teaches us not to. He teaches us to be good human beings and respect everybody and their beliefs. I remember Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah's farman, which is read out in Jamat Khana once a month and it states thus: Not to do geela gibat of other religions because it is a Gunha kabira.

Well these fitnatis are taught otherwise. Hence, their horrible condition. They are like orphans on footpaths, naked! Picking up dirty morsels from their Mullah Molvis and poisoning their Akhirat. Tsche!

[lawgraduate]

ISMAILIS should understand that just saying by change of times the Aga Khan lives and interprets Islam is so right is indeed kufr and ridiculous even to a small impressionable school going child. Islam is not up for sale and mutilation to whatever times we live in or change to suit the minds of other non muslim societies. The Noble Quran will be preserved till doomsday by Allah (swt). ISMAILIS hide behind the curtain and feel ashamed to speak of the western consorts (women) whom their Hazar Nazar Imams gathered for personal satisfaction is just so questionable. The entire women lot just pose shamelessly for the media clad in western attire. Allah save the Ismailis from the Fitnahs of such fake spiritual leaders who are doomed to be in hellfire to eternity. Look guys Hazrat Ali too died as a martyr and Allah still lives on. So who is more powerful? Use your brains guys. Don't go for materialistic gains and scrupulous teachings. Be saner and use your brain.

[blitzkreig]

Thats because you may be looking into wrong sources. learn from Authorized Shia or Sunni scholars and books, Ismaili Imam himself is not educated in Arabic language and can't read namaz, when he goes to meet some Muslim scholar he prefers to read behind and no this is not because to give respect but because he is afraid of getting caught if he reads Arabic, but anyways since you are in learning mode, may be if ALLAH will wish you will come to true path of ISLAM.

Not quite what I meant. The knowledge that I have gotten is not really written in common books. It's basically stuff that takes years to find, and only some find it. You probably won't understand what I mean.

Some comments in-line.

ISMAILIS should understand that just saying by change of times the Aga Khan lives and interprets Islam is so right is indeed kufr and ridiculous even to a small impressionable school going child. Islam is not up for sale and mutilation to whatever times we live in or change to suit the minds of other non muslim societies. Could you tell me things which are against Islam?The Noble Quran will be preserved till doomsday by Allah (swt)Yes it will. And if Quran was enough, why did the Prophet say I'm leaving behind two important things. The Quran and my progeny. If the Quran was really enough, why did he have to mention his progeny?. ISMAILIS hide behind the curtain and feel ashamed to speak of the western consorts (women) whom their Hazar Nazar Imams gathered for personal satisfaction is just so questionableI'm not sure I have heard about this. When did this take place?. The entire women lot just pose shamelessly for the media clad in western attire.I can't find anything in Islam that says women are not allowed to wear western clothes. Allah save the Ismailis from the Fitnahs of such fake spiritual leaders who are doomed to be in hellfire to eternityI hope you find enlightenment as well . Look guys Hazrat Ali too died as a martyr and Allah still lives on. So who is more powerful? Use your brains guysWe are. Of course an Imams die just as like the Prophets. I fail to see the meaning behind comparison. Do you think we don't believe in Allah? Or do you think we believe our Imam Allah?I think you seem confused about something here.. Don't go for materialistic gains and scrupulous teachings. Be saner and use your brain.

[lawgraduate]

Imams are leaders who guide by Allah's command 32:25.But there are also Imam in Quran who call towards fire and Allah says Fight these Imams of Kufr. , 28:41: “And We made themleaders (imams) who call towards the Fire. 9:12: “Fight the leaders (imams) of kufr.” So if Imam guides by Allah's command like Imam Hussain etc then they are true Imam. But if a Imam says no need to pray Friday, jumma salah as told in 62:9-10 and prophet and Ahl bait performed jumma at zuhar / noon prayer or do wuzu or face Kibla or no need to fast then he is definitely Imam of kufr and calling towards fire. Authority of Imam is to implement and make his followers readers of the book Quran. Imam has no authority independent of Allah. If Imam makes himself independent of Quran which is Allah's words and his speech, then he has claimed himself to be Rab.No human being can tell Allah's slaves to listen to him when there is cryatal clear speech of Allah. He will tell them to learn and follow Quran. Will Imam tell to disbelieve after ye had surrendered (to Allah)? Islam is to surrender you will to Allah, thats a meaning of Muslim. A muslim follows Quran. To dis obey Allah is bad

You know Ismalis are not following Quran commands of Friday prayer (Read 62:9 and 62:10) from Quran.

Also we Ismalis do not pray towards Kaaba. Allah commands 5 times in Quran (Al-Baqarah (The Cow) 144,149,150)

Also we donot give aazan as in prophet (saw) time Hazrat Bilal gave.

Allah say in Quran to do wuzu (read 5:6) Allah say to wash Ur face , hands and feet before Salah.

We donot do Ruku. See in Dua we dont do ruku but in Eid Namaz we recite prayer as all muslim do. Why this double standards. When we bury a dead man we recite namaz in Qabarstan we do qayam and give salam.

Each and every Muslim has a responsibility to obey it that what Allah (SWT) has said and What He (SWT) likes and what He (SWT) dislikes. This is a real muslim.

If Prophet (saw) left us two weighted things Quran and his progeny then
why we are rejecting practically the one weighted thing of the two "The Quran" Progeny and Quran cannot contradict, they will go parallel. Why the progeny is rejecting Quranic commands. You give quranic references to support the Imamat concept because you know its the authority to support you belief.
Then why are you not following all of Quran. Is it that you keep your
sect above Quran, and you need just Quran to support you sect. You as Ismali are disobeying Allah.

[Nafisa]

I request to all kindly do not use abusive language, it is sign of Jahalat
while we are discussing for Knowledge
The manner of Munazirah is we should stay with in the boundary of Akhlaq
If you are not believe leave it and don't use Fahash
The topic of Mustaqar and Mastawda is discussed by Syedna Idris 19th Dai in Zahr al Maani, one of the Aala book of Haqaiq
Beside the topic and kinds of imamat is explained in number of Aala Haqaiq books, which permission of reading is restricted by the family of Taher Saifuddin, for them exclusively.
Brahman Raj
Doors of ilm are closed for common Dawoodi Bohra-Aala Haqaiq is only for Shaitani Qasar e Jaali-Aali

[JavedhJuma]

Imams are leaders who guide by Allah's command 32:25.But there are also Imam in Quran who call towards fire and Allah says Fight these Imams of Kufr. , 28:41: “And We made themleaders (imams) who call towards the Fire. 9:12: “Fight the leaders (imams) of kufr.” So if Imam guides by Allah's command like Imam Hussain etc then they are true Imam. But if a Imam says no need to pray Friday, jumma salah as told in 62:9-10 and prophet and Ahl bait performed jumma at zuhar / noon prayer or do wuzu or face Kibla or no need to fast then he is definitely Imam of kufr and calling towards fire. Authority of Imam is to implement and make his followers readers of the book Quran.


You know something. you are quoting suras and ayats without understanding. Juma prayer in Prophet's time was called the prayer of Assembly. On Friday people did not work so they got together for prayers. In Islam there is no rigidity. If you do not pray and do good amals, you are better than Low-grad who is manufacturing fitnas. Read Sura 104, that is in the Qur'an. If you libel and slander your prayers are null and void. Ismaili Imam has encouraged Juma prayers with the rest of the Muslims where Friday is a holiday. Allah SWT does not say anywhere that if you do not pray, you will go to hell. But He definitely says, if you libel and slander you will go to hell. Our Imam does not say not to pray Friday prayers. So you are a reader of the "book of Qur'an" so why do you choose and pick the Suras and ayats? In other words, why do you discard some and pass judgement on people. Who gave you that authority. Because the last time I read the Qur'an only Allah SWT reserves that right. As regards wuzu, in the olden days, wuzu was required because people were farmers and their hands and feet were dirty, including their noses and ears from the desert dust. Also there were no showers; we have showers and we do shower morning and evening before prayer. We wash full body everyday and not wait for juma only to wash full body as was being done in the Prophet's time; As regards facing Qibla, Qur'an also says "wither so ever you turn there is the face of Allah
. Imam has no authority independent of Allah. Nobody is going against the authority of Allah SWT. Now, tell me something, do you look at the thread in the morning to recite the fajr prayer? Or do you look for the sun to recite your noon prayer, if not why? Why? Qur'an does not tell you to follow the clock or the watch! But Qur'an does tell you to use your Aql which you do not have. Adhan is not necessary any more and those who use Adhan is to call people who do not have clocks or watches to come to prayer. I like the adhan especially if somebody has a nice voice, but having lived in middle east for some time, I know that Muezzin does not always give the adhan. They have programmed adhans and they come up as such. If Imam makes himself independent of Quran which is Allah's wordsWhat you are doing here is fitnah. Imam does not make himself independent of the Qur'an, he follows the prescriptions of the Qur'an with Aql as Allah SWT says. Now if your Imam came out of the Cave, may be he will tell you how to use your Aql, because like him, you are totally lost. and his speech, then he has claimed himself to be Rab.Only Allah SWT is Rabb. Imam has never claimed to be so. You are so sick, you need to see a psycheNo human being can tell Allah's slaves to listen to him when there is cryatal clear speech of Allah. OK. so tell me Sura 104 is not crystal clear. He will tell them to learn and follow Quran. How do you know he doesn't tell us to learn Qur'an. He tells us to read Qur'an with meaning and not like a parrot. Will Imam tell to disbelieve after ye had surrendered (to Allah)? Islam is to surrender you will to Allah, thats a meaning of Muslim. A muslim follows Quran.So you agree you are not a Muslim because you do not follow 104.You do not surrender to Allah SWT because you are judging other Muslims To dis obey Allah is bad How many times do I have to tell you read Sura 104. What you are doing is totally opposite to the Qur'an.

Tell me something, do you have a job? Do you have a social life? Or have you just made it your life to condemn Ismailis. You know, the way we have beating you up, only a fool will come around repeating nonsense. You do not follow Qur'an. You are a Munafikin. Your conduct is like that of a pig, filthy. I have made it my duty to correct your interpretation of Qur'an which is like that of Munifiqins.

You know Ismalis are not following Quran commands of Friday prayer (Read 62:9 and 62:10) from Quran.

Also we Ismalis do not pray towards Kaaba. Allah commands 5 times in Quran (Al-Baqarah (The Cow) 144,149,150)

Also we donot give aazan as in prophet (saw) time Hazrat Bilal gave.

Allah say in Quran to do wuzu (read 5:6) Allah say to wash Ur face , hands and feet before Salah.

We donot do Ruku. See in Dua we dont do ruku but in Eid Namaz we recite prayer as all muslim do.There is no double standard here. Eid Namaz are different between Shias and Sunnis and ours is more in line with Sunnis. That is our choice. Why this double standards. When we bury a dead man we recite namaz in Qabarstan we do qayam and give salam. So what is your problem and since when you became Ismaili. Show me where in Qur'an does it say how to pray Salah, Qur'an does not say Namaz (that is a different topic). And why 73 sects in Islam pray differently. Why don't you just mind your own filthy pigsty and leave us clean people alone.

Each and every Muslim has a responsibility to obey it that what Allah (SWT) has said and What He (SWT) likes and what He (SWT) dislikes. This is a real muslim. Do you mean to say you are not a true Muslim? I can ennumerate many things you are doing against AllaH SWT and Qur'an but I do not want to waste my time. Read Sura 104 to start with and then do not try to snatch away the right of Allah SWT to judge. When you absorb these two, come back and I shall give you more.

If Prophet (saw) left us two weighted things Quran and his progeny then
why we are rejecting practically the one weighted thing of the two "The Quran" Progeny and Quran cannot contradict, they will go parallel.Do you know the meaning of parallel? If you did you would not use this word, instead you would say "they go hand in hand". Why the progeny is rejecting Quranic commands. You give quranic references to support the Imamat concept because you know its the authority to support you belief.
Then why are you not following all of Quran. Is it that you keep your
sect above Quran, and you need just Quran to support you sect. You as Ismali are disobeying Allah.[/color]

Boy! you are a real quirk and piece of work. I wanted to use a word that describes you exactly but with respect to Bahen Nafisa, I am being a bit polite.

[blitzkreig]

Imams are leaders who guide by Allah's command 32:25.But there are also Imam in Quran who call towards fire and Allah says Fight these Imams of Kufr. , 28:41: “And We made themleaders (imams) who call towards the Fire. 9:12: “Fight the leaders (imams) of kufr.” So if Imam guides by Allah's command like Imam Hussain etc then they are true Imam. But if a Imam says no need to pray Friday, jumma salah as told in 62:9-10 and prophet and Ahl bait performed jumma at zuhar / noon prayer or do wuzu or face Kibla or no need to fast then he is definitely Imam of kufr and calling towards fire. Authority of Imam is to implement and make his followers readers of the book Quran. Imam has no authority independent of Allah. If Imam makes himself independent of Quran which is Allah's words and his speech, then he has claimed himself to be Rab.No human being can tell Allah's slaves to listen to him when there is cryatal clear speech of Allah. He will tell them to learn and follow Quran. Will Imam tell to disbelieve after ye had surrendered (to Allah)? Islam is to surrender you will to Allah, thats a meaning of Muslim. A muslim follows Quran. To dis obey Allah is bad
I think most of what you have mentioned above is not true. Nothing we do contradicts Quran.
You know Ismalis are not following Quran commands of Friday prayer (Read 62:9 and 62:10) from Quran.
We recite prayers everyday (unlike you I'm assuming). On Fridays we have extra ceremonies to mark the day. Can you tell me what other mosque opens at 5 AM in the morning so people can pray? And how many (percentage wise) attend those prayers?
Also we Ismalis do not pray towards Kaaba. Allah commands 5 times in Quran (Al-Baqarah (The Cow) 144,149,150)
No where does it mention 5 times in Quran. Stop making things up! I think in the other response I gave a sarcastic answer so I will just repeat that here. We have historical counts which state the Prophet offered salaat while riding on a camel during his travels. No where does it mention that he stopped his travel and tried looking for a direction of Kaaba and start praying. There is major significance behind why we Allah told muslims to face kaaba but it seems like you are so blind that it's not possible for you to see things.
Also we donot give aazan as in prophet (saw) time Hazrat Bilal gave.
Again this has nothing to do with Quran. The aazan is a historical tradition from the time where people had no means of telling time. The Aazan was given to annonce the time of Salaat when no clocks existed. There is no such need in the modern time where everyone is able to tell exactly what time it is.

Allah say in Quran to do wuzu (read 5:6) Allah say to wash Ur face , hands and feet before Salah.
And we do. We go above and beyond the requirements by taking a shower before attending prayers. Once again, there is historical significance behind this, but you are too blind to see it.

We donot do Ruku. See in Dua we dont do ruku but in Eid Namaz we recite prayer as all muslim do. Why this double standards. When we bury a dead man we recite namaz in Qabarstan we do qayam and give salam.
What's this we? I can clearly see that you are no Nizari Ismaili. The reasoning behind it is quite simple actually. The Eid namaz that we recite is not mandatory and thus not attended by people who are unable to perform the necessary actions. On the other hand, our Salaat is mandatory thus we cannot have positions which cannot be performed by the aged, or children, or pregnant women. Do you really expect a toddler, or an aged person or women who is 8 month pregnant to bow down in ruku? Unlike other muslims, we actually people of all ages attend...

Each and every Muslim has a responsibility to obey it that what Allah (SWT) has said and What He (SWT) likes and what He (SWT) dislikes. This is a real muslim.
And we do. I daresay even more so than majority of muslims. How many of them follow what they preach? How many recite the daily salaat 5 times a day like they preach? How many of them give Zakat? I can go on and on with things in the Quran that majority of the Muslims don't do.

If Prophet (saw) left us two weighted things Quran and his progeny then
why we are rejecting practically the one weighted thing of the two "The Quran" Progeny and Quran cannot contradict, they will go parallel. Why the progeny is rejecting Quranic commands. You give quranic references to support the Imamat concept because you know its the authority to support you belief.
Then why are you not following all of Quran. Is it that you keep your
sect above Quran, and you need just Quran to support you sect. You as Ismali are disobeying Allah.No we aren't. Point me to examples where we or our Imam contradicts the Quran?

I think I replied in the other thread but it seems like it was deleted.