Learning about the Qur'an from a Catholic archbishop

Given modern distractions, the need to understand Islam better has never been more urgent. Through this forum we can share ideas and hopefully promote the true spirit of Islam which calls for peace, justice, tolerance, inclusiveness and diversity.
JavedhJuma
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Re: Learning about the Qur'an from a Catholic archbishop

#121

Unread post by JavedhJuma » Thu May 14, 2015 7:11 pm

Like I told your buddy, do not masquerade as an authority on the Quran when you don't know shit about it. Learn tafsir first. 2:177 along with 2:115 are in answer to some people's objections that the prayer direction was changed by Allah from Jerusalem to Kaaba. I mean the cubicle building the Quran says was built by Ibrahim and Ismail.
Hey Fay and Biradar: I have told you in the past and am telling you again, do not teach Islam or Qur'an to Ismailis. I know Kaba was built by Hazarats Ibrahim and Hazarat Ismail AS.

Please Read footnote 177: As if to emphasise again a warning against deadening formalism we are given a beautiful description of the righteous and God-fearing man. He should obey salutary regulations, but he should fix his gaze on the LOVE of God And you Biradar tell us you do not have to love God. Well then, friend, you are a Mushrik. Without Love of God neither you nor your twin are Muslims.


To be continued.....

JavedhJuma
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Re: Learning about the Qur'an from a Catholic archbishop

#122

Unread post by JavedhJuma » Thu May 14, 2015 7:29 pm

I am doing this in bits and pieces....

What is Islam? the footnote: 177 continues:

He should follow salutary regulations, but he should fix his gaze on the Love of God and the love of his fellow men.

Now do you have love of men? You have been bad mouthing my Imam, who teaches us the love of men and the proof is in front of you. He does a lot of humanitarian work in the world and tells us to do so too. We do a lot of volunteer work for Allah SWT's men and you have the audacity to bad mouth us.


Footnote continues: We are given four heads: (1) Our faith should be true and sincere; (2) we must be prepared to show it in deeds of charity to our fellow men.

So tell me is your faith true and sincere? If you say yes, then I say you are a liar because without love of God, there is no faith!
and without faith your charity is "nada, kaput".


Please, please do not teach us Islam!

3. We must be good citizens, supporting social organisation.

4. Our individual soul must be firm and unshaken in all circumstances.

Now tell me, do you know what a soul is. If you knew what a soul is, you would not doing fitnah on this forum because your soul suffers.

To be continueed....

JavedhJuma
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Re: Learning about the Qur'an from a Catholic archbishop

#123

Unread post by JavedhJuma » Thu May 14, 2015 7:48 pm

Footnote 178: Faith is not merely a matter of words. We mustrealise the presence and goodness of God. When we do so, the scales fall from our eyes. Please read on....... because your eyes are scaly.

Just don't teach us Islam.

As regards, other matters like praying towards Kibla, etc. We have discussed in detail here in the past. I am not going to talk more about it. I have quoted ahadith wherein the Prophet SAW was praying and Hazarat Ayesha was lying on the floor in front of him with his feet in his direction.

Listen, God says, it not righteous that you turn your face towards east or west.......

Also, Hazarat Umar used to pray on the back of a horse, and your relative on this site said it was not a Fard payer....Fard prayer of Nafli prayer, prayer is prayer.

The ayat keeps insisting on to be steadfast in prayer and practice regular charity. Do you practice regular charity? We do and the proof is in the pudding. Look at our charitable works in the world. You are one billion of you, and you have nothing to show us but your behinds.

Once a year you do charity and that too you have to bargain.

You know who does charity? Mr. Edhi! Look up Edhi foundation. He is alone and takes care of orphans and the needy. He is a true Muslim!

You foul mouths on this forum are nothing but foul mouths. You have nothing to show or prove, just Maherally's venomous lies! Continue, and you will end up with him. May Allah SWT save you!

Love Allah SWT and he will Inshallah guide you. He is the Rahebar and Most Merciful. How can you not love Him?

JavedhJuma
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Re: Learning about the Qur'an from a Catholic archbishop

#124

Unread post by JavedhJuma » Thu May 14, 2015 8:15 pm

Humanbeing wrote: to be honest, at some point in one's life namaaz becomes a mechanical habitual exercise, without really emotionally connecting with the duaas that are recited.

for many, it is chanting of the duaas ... and finishing the targeted arkaans / salaat.

You are right brother. I think this is for those who fear God. Because they eye God as if He is some kind of a monster. Those who understand and believe God as Most Beneficient, Most Merciful , Raheman and RAhim, they pray as if they are talking to Him and feel his presence.

However, those who love God, and know the meanings of their supplications (we are told by our Imam to know the meanings of our Du'a and most Ismailis know them and every now and then they are re-read in JK to make sure we understand His Benevolence...) they would pray as if God is in front of them and they are talking to Him because they have so much Love for His Mercy. They open their hearts to Him.

However, those who do not have love for God as Biradar says, you do not have to love God, then they are Robots. Whether they pray or not, makes no difference to Allah SWT.

JavedhJuma
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Re: Learning about the Qur'an from a Catholic archbishop

#125

Unread post by JavedhJuma » Thu May 14, 2015 8:26 pm

To fayazz a prayer is bobbing up and down. He is an atheist so he bows to no one so ruku, sujood are not for him. But he insists, Ismailis should do that to qualify as Muslims.

Then again what does he know about Islam and Muslims. He has proven a fool every time he opens his mouth. He is an atheist and preaches Islam to Ismailis. Sometimes even to Wahabis. And his side kick says, you do not have to Love God. So much for the bobsy twins. What a dadidaaaa!

Al-Baghdadi does ruku, sujood, etc. and yet he has blood on his hands not of non-Muslims alone, but even of Muslims. Calls himself Khalifa of Islam like Fayazz calls himself ........ of Islam and his twin says, you do not have to love God to be a Muslim.

No wonder where Islam is today and is known as a religion of terrorist because of these morons!

KA786110
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Re: Learning about the Qur'an from a Catholic archbishop

#126

Unread post by KA786110 » Thu May 14, 2015 11:36 pm

Biradar wrote:
KA786110 wrote:I am not attacking anyone. Just trying to expose hypocrisy of hiding behind 'No beliefs'.

What I am alluding to in previous post is that it is more important for prayers to be offered with heart and love. Actual actions of prayers are not set in stone for us,. Because as far as Shias are concerned their Imams are the interpreters of the Qur'an and their guidance is the key. So we look at the Imam of the time for directions.

Ahle Sunnah and many Shias (whose "guidance by Imams have stopped due to hiding or seclusion) have their rites in static state. I am not saying that their situation is necessarily bad.

Incidentally, you did not answer the question:

"Are you saying that is okay to disobey the explicit injunction in Quran to face the kaaba when saying the obligatory salaat? Please answer clearly, and unambiguously."


I don't judge, just curious to know your thoughts on this, which is explicit and unambiguous in the Qur'an. Yes or no will do.
I have answered as clearly as I can. And you know that. :-)


I can try once again:

In the following ayat, God makes it very clear that where we face during prayer isn't really that important:

Righteousness is not that you turn your faces toward the east or the west, but [true] righteousness is [in] one who believes in Allah , the Last Day, the angels, the Book, and the prophets and gives wealth, in spite of love for it, to relatives, orphans, the needy, the traveler, those who ask [for help], and for freeing slaves; [and who] establishes prayer and gives zakah; [those who] fulfill their promise when they promise; and [those who] are patient in poverty and hardship and during battle. Those are the ones who have been true, and it is those who are the righteous.

(Al-Baqara 2:177)

I know you can quote several tafsirs which will have different take on it. You have the right to interpret according to your understanding or inclination. So do we.

salim
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Re: Learning about the Qur'an from a Catholic archbishop

#127

Unread post by salim » Fri May 15, 2015 12:15 pm

fayyaaz wrote:Salim,

I stand by what I wrote about my cousin. Can you comment on below taken from:
Ali Ullah means Ali is from Allah. Now there is a chance that in history there "might"be some Mullah, Pir Or Fakir who would had misinformed people to gain more power. Creating communication gaps was much easy in the past. But never in the history our imams or Imamat institution said that Ali is Allah. That is so wrong. The link is full of false claims

Let me give you my experience, I was visiting France, so decided to visit Imam's office. I had no appointment with him, but hoping to see a glimpse of him. I knew someone inside. So I went in.

I was taking the tour of the building and Imam came in his car. He was driving the car. He parked the car, came out of the car, with some files in his hands, he opened the back door and took some more files in his other hand. Both of his hands were full of files. He used his legs to close the door. I was very happy to see him.

But inside me, I was still hoping to see him more closely. At his office when I entered cafeteria, I was saw him standing in a line for his tern to get some food. There were some employees ahead of him, there were some after him. I went and stand in the que too. I was very happy. He was talking to some other guy.

After taking food, Aga Khan and the other person took a table in cafeteria and started eating. I saw him cleaning the table and putting his plates back to cleaning bin.

Now here is my question to you - If he had any supernatural power, why would he struggle to hold those files and close his car's doors. If he had any supernatural power, does he has to stand in a line to get food and clean his own plates. For us he is Imam of the time, sitting in the place of Ali.

The are two kind of people who will say Ali-Allah - One are those who became victim of extremist propaganda against ismailis and other are those extremists who do this fake propaganda. People who are making up these stories are doing shirk by forcing these things on ismailis and equating Ali with Allah.
Last edited by salim on Fri May 15, 2015 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

salim
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Re: Learning about the Qur'an from a Catholic archbishop

#128

Unread post by salim » Fri May 15, 2015 12:32 pm

fayyaaz wrote:Salim,

I stand by what I wrote about my cousin.
Last year when Aga Khan visited the Jamat. The gathering was for ismailis only. This is how he started his speech, he said "He was told" that there are ismailis from over 20 different countries here. And he said that he could not even remember off the top of his head all the names of the countries.

So now according to your cousins thinking, if Ali is Allah, then Aga Khan should have some super natural powers, as he is sitting in place of Ali. Ali was Imam of his time. and for us Aga Khan if Imam of the time. Why was "he told" about the countries, he should have already known about it. How come he can't even remember the name of the countries top of his head.

I think your cousin need to work on her religious education.
Last edited by salim on Fri May 15, 2015 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

anajmi
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Re: Learning about the Qur'an from a Catholic archbishop

#129

Unread post by anajmi » Fri May 15, 2015 12:37 pm

That means your Imam is nothing compared to the Bohra Dai. Have you ever seen the bohra Dai stand in line for food. The motto of the bohra Dai is like the Kaalia of Amitabh Bachchan from Kaalia. Hum jahan khade ho jaate hain, line wahi se shuru hoti hain. Well, in case of the bohra Dai, he will probably be sitting on the shoulders of four abde idiots. Can you imagine a person destined to imitate his funeral while being alive and then after death being referred to as Al-Hayy. Irony might itself be ashamed!!

salim
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Re: Learning about the Qur'an from a Catholic archbishop

#130

Unread post by salim » Fri May 15, 2015 12:48 pm

I believe that any Muslims or non-Muslim who equate Allah with Humans is wrong. This is what ismailis believe too.

fayyaaz
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Re: Learning about the Qur'an from a Catholic archbishop

#131

Unread post by fayyaaz » Fri May 15, 2015 12:56 pm

Salim,

Thank you for your input. I agree with you that Aga Khan is just an ordinary human being, with as much 'spiritual' power as you and me.

Please educate your brothers in the Aga Khani faith about your experiences.

And 'Ali Ullah' does not mean 'Ali is from Allah'. You should ask an Arabic scholar. As explained in the link that I gave you, the two words are what is known as a construct phrase joining Aliyyun and Allah. In joining the two words, nun (n) disappears and you have Aliyullah. Roughly it is translated is Allah's Ali or Ali of Allah. It is a meaningless phrase. But Aga Khanis, unlike you, believe it means Ali and Allah are the same. Please educate them. Thanks

salim
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Re: Learning about the Qur'an from a Catholic archbishop

#132

Unread post by salim » Fri May 15, 2015 2:26 pm

fayyaaz wrote:Salim,

Thank you for your input. I agree with you that Aga Khan is just an ordinary human being, with as much 'spiritual' power as you and me.

Please educate your brothers in the Aga Khani faith about your experiences.

And 'Ali Ullah' does not mean 'Ali is from Allah'. You should ask an Arabic scholar. As explained in the link that I gave you, the two words are what is known as a construct phrase joining Aliyyun and Allah. In joining the two words, nun (n) disappears and you have Aliyullah. Roughly it is translated is Allah's Ali or Ali of Allah. It is a meaningless phrase. But Aga Khanis, unlike you, believe it means Ali and Allah are the same. Please educate them. Thanks
We ismailis believe him as Imam of the time. We believe that Prophet Muhammad nominated Ali as Imam. And Imamat started from there. For us he does have "spiritual power" more than common man to guide us.

Ali Ullah does mean Ali from Allah. Just google Ali Ullah, you will find millions of Muslims both shia and sunnis using this. While Aliullah is not common name in ismailis, it is common in Shia and Sunni.

For example many people who call themself Faiz, or Fayaaz, their full name is sometimes Faiz Ullah. Faiz from Allah. Just Google Faizullah.

Please do not make up things. If you don't believe in Allah, at least believe in Karma. If you do bad, bad will come back to you.

May Allah guide both of us.

KA786110
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Re: Learning about the Qur'an from a Catholic archbishop

#133

Unread post by KA786110 » Fri May 15, 2015 2:53 pm

Living a simple life is the tradition of the house of the Holy Prophet (pbuh). For example look at the life of the Holy Prophet (pbuh), Hazrat Imam Ali (as) and Hazrat Imam Hussain (as) for example. And that tradition continues with the present AhleBayt Imam Shah Karim Al-Husayni Aga Khan (as).

fayyaaz
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Re: Learning about the Qur'an from a Catholic archbishop

#134

Unread post by fayyaaz » Fri May 15, 2015 3:14 pm

salim wrote:

Ali Ullah does mean Ali from Allah.

For example many people who call themself Faiz, or Fayaaz, their full name is sometimes Faiz Ullah. Faiz from Allah. Just Google Faizullah.
Faizullah means 'the faiz of Allah'. Waliyullah means 'the Wali of Allah'. Baytullah means 'the house of Allah'. They are the words faizun, waliyyun, and baytun joined in a construct phrase with the word Allah, known as idafa in Arabic. They all lose nun of nunnation (tanween) in an idafa. First word of idafa is normally indefinite. Joining it with the second word makes the whole phrase definite.

Ali on its own is a name of a person and, by definition, a definite noun. Two definite words like Ali and Allah are never joined in a construct phrase. Hence Aliyullah is a meaningless phrase.

That is a free Arabic lesson for you. And I have not just made it up. You should really ask a scholar of Arabic!

salim
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Re: Learning about the Qur'an from a Catholic archbishop

#135

Unread post by salim » Fri May 15, 2015 3:34 pm

Faizullah means Faiz "from" Allah. Here is the meaning

http://www.muslimbabynames.net/boy-name ... asp?ID=367
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faizullah

So according to your definition hundreds and thousands of Sunni Muslims who called them self Ali and their full names are Ali Ullah are really calling themselves Allah? No one in their right mind will do that. Here, you check out yourself
https://www.google.com/search?q=Ali+Ull ... 8&oe=utf-8

Regardless, we ismailis believe that Aliullah means Ali from Allah. I have been learning this meaning from my childhood.

fayyaaz
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Re: Learning about the Qur'an from a Catholic archbishop

#136

Unread post by fayyaaz » Fri May 15, 2015 4:06 pm

Salim,

Strictly, they are wrong in all your references. Please refer to an Arabic Grammar Book.

It may be permissible in naming as a matter of tradition (among non-Arabic speaking Muslims), even if clearly grammatically inaccurate. But it cannot be justified in a 'canonical' prayer which normally follows constructs akin to the grammar of the Quran.

But then, Ismailis are in a class of their own as all you Ismailis never tire of pointing out. I am sure those you know all exude 'love and heart' for all the humanity all the time.

Some Ismailis I know are now part of my extended family through marriage and they are no different from the rest of us, the fragile humanity.

fayyaaz
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Re: Learning about the Qur'an from a Catholic archbishop

#137

Unread post by fayyaaz » Fri May 15, 2015 4:32 pm

Salim,

A thought just occured to me that Aliyullah as you use it may not be an Arabic phrase at all but a specific Ismaili jargon in an Ismaili-specific language. And it may actually mean "Ali is Allah" as some aver. Why don't you ask an Ismaili elder clergyman or such to explain it to you? Frankly, I have no interest in this conversation any more. I wish you well and I do not care and I have no objection if Ismailis believe Ali and Allah are the same, even if you do not count it as your personal belief.

JC
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Re: Learning about the Qur'an from a Catholic archbishop

#138

Unread post by JC » Fri May 15, 2015 7:27 pm

Leaders are judged by their actions more than their words .............. Aga Khan has proved to be a great leader and whole world recognizes that and accepts that. Nobody cares much about his religion, what he 'does' proves him to be a good human being and that is all what counts.

There have been leaders, religious and non-religious and we judge them by their actions, we evaluate and analyze what they 'did' more than what they 'said' ........... yes we see did they do what they said they will do? Did they deliver? If yes, how much, how far?

If Buddha delivered he was a great leader, if Mandela delivered he was great too. If Bush delivered to his people he was great to them too.

What has Muffy done?? What did his father and grandfather do?? How they have improved the lives of ordinary bohras??

JavedhJuma
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Re: Learning about the Qur'an from a Catholic archbishop

#139

Unread post by JavedhJuma » Sun May 17, 2015 3:46 pm

Leaders are judged by their actions more than their words .............. Aga Khan has proved to be a great leader and whole world recognizes that and accepts that. Nobody cares much about his religion, what he 'does' proves him to be a good human being and that is all what counts.
Brother JC, Thanks for writing the truth. Very few people walk with their eyes open. Others see the truth but out of jealousy pretend they did not see anything and malign others. These are future hell dwellers.

His Highness the Aga Khan was asked by CNN or Msnbc correspondent as to why he does not speak about his work on TV. He said, his work speaks for itself. He is very humble. If he tries to give speeches about his work, when is he going to do his work.
He has 80,000 people working for him. Apart from this there are Ismaili volunteers, like doctors, nurses, surgeons, teachers, etc. etc.

I remember when Bhendi Bazar project was announced AgaKhan had announced several projects, e.g. Museum and Jamat Khana in Toronto, Hyderabad Academy, Cancer Hospital in Kenya, and some others I do not remember.. They have all met their deadlines, and are functioning.

thanks for your kind words. May Allah SWT bless you for your honesty.

JavedhJuma
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Re: Learning about the Qur'an from a Catholic archbishop

#140

Unread post by JavedhJuma » Sun May 17, 2015 4:03 pm

Fayaz:
Thank you for your input. I agree with you that Aga Khan is just an ordinary human being, with as much 'spiritual' power as you and me.
That's crap and you know it. Aga Khan is not just an ordinary human being like you. Keep Salim out of it. You are not even close to Salim. Aga Khan is beyond your comprehension. He is not Allah, but he fears Allah SWT. His work is not philanthropy, he says as an Imam, be it Shia or Sunni (he said this in Tajikistan to reporters) his mandate as an Ismaili Imam, is to take care of Allah's creation, which includes human beings. I quoted some foot notes to your brother Biradar from the Qur'an. Read them. Allah SWT has said He expects all of us to to love his creation, including people. What I see as Imam he is taking care of Allah SWT's creation. Whereas you, brother, are condemning what he is doing and you, your MN and Biradar are just busy digging dirt.

Do what you do and you will one day fall into a pit. And Aga Khan's progeny will still be around to take care of less fortunate ones.He had once said he would like to eradicate poverty. I guess poverty can only be eliminated by getting education. Good education, not Madressa type. Inshallah, Allah SWT will help him achieve this goal. He is a good man and you morons are throwing dirt at him. Your hands are getting dirty. He keeps doing what he is mandated to do.