Wahhabi justification for converting people by force

[topiwala]

Do see:
http://islamqa.info/en/34770

Praise be to Allaah.

The scholars explained that these two verses, and other similar verses, have to do with those from whom the jizyah may be taken, such as Jews, Christians and Magians (Zoroastrians). They are not to be forced, rather they are to be given the choice between becoming Muslim or paying the jizyah.

Other scholars said that this applied in the beginning, but was subsequently abrogated by Allaah’s command to fight and wage jihad. So whoever refuses to enter Islam should be fought when the Muslims are able to fight, until they either enter Islam or pay the jizyah if they are among the people who may pay jizyah. The kuffaar should be compelled to enter Islam if they are not people from whom the jizyah may be taken, because that will lead to their happiness and salvation in this world and in the Hereafter. Obliging a person to adhere to the truth in which is guidance and happiness is better for him than falsehood. Just as a person may be forced to do the duty that he owes to other people even if that is by means of imprisonment or beating, so forcing the kaafirs to believe in Allaah alone and enter into the religion of Islam is more important and more essential, because this will lead to their happiness in this world and in the Hereafter. This applies unless they are People of the Book, i.e., Jews and Christians, or Magians, because Islam says that these three groups may be given the choice: they may enter Islam or they may pay the jizyah and feel themselves subdued.

Some of the scholars are of the view that others may also be given the choice between Islam and jizyah, but the most correct view is that no others should be given this choice, rather these three groups are the only ones who may be given the choice, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) fought the kuffaar in the Arabian Peninsula and he only accepted their becoming Muslim. And Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“But if they repent [by rejecting Shirk (polytheism) and accept Islamic Monotheism] and perform As-Salaah (Iqaamat-as-Salaah), and give Zakaah, then leave their way free. Verily, Allaah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful”

[al-Tawbah 9:5]

He did not say, “if they pay the jizyah”. The Jews, Christians and Magians are to be asked to enter Islam; if they refuse then they should be asked to pay the jizyah. If they refuse to pay the jizyah then the Muslims must fight them if they are able to do so. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allaah, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allaah and His Messenger (Muhammad), (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued”

[al-Tawbah 9:29]

And it was proven that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) accepted the jizyah from the Magians, but it was not proven that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) or his companions (may Allaah be pleased with them) accepted the jizyah from anyone except the three groups mentioned above.

The basic principle concerning that is the words of Allaah (interpretation of the meaning):

“And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism, i.e. worshipping others besides Allaah), and the religion (worship) will all be for Allaah Alone [in the whole of the world]”

[al-Anfaal 8:39]

“Then when the Sacred Months (the 1st, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikoon (see V.2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush. But if they repent [by rejecting Shirk (polytheism) and accept Islamic Monotheism] and perform As-Salaah (Iqaamat-as-Salaah), and give Zakaah, then leave their way free. Verily, Allaah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful”

[al-Tawbah 9:5]

This verse is known as Ayat al-Sayf (the verse of the sword).

These and similar verses abrogate the verses which say that there is no compulsion to become Muslim.

And Allaah is the Source of strength.
Majmoo’ Fataawa wa Maqaalaat li’l-Shaykh Ibn Baaz, 6/219


Would love to know views of wahhabis like anajmi, araz etc , since they often quote these websites , do they really believe in the above fatwa?

This only shows how peaceful our dawoodi community is compared to the other musalmaans. We dont have such fatwas and are progressive under the able guidance of dai ul asar MAULA MUFADDAL MOLA TUS. Every mumin has become rich and ba adab without waging a war or getting tempted by the munafiqeen here. others dont have anything!

[araz5253]

Do see:
http://islamqa.info/en/34770

Praise be to Allaah.

The scholars explained that these two verses, and other similar verses, have to do with those from whom the jizyah may be taken, such as Jews, Christians and Magians (Zoroastrians). They are not to be forced, rather they are to be given the choice between becoming Muslim or paying the jizyah.

Other scholars said that this applied in the beginning, but was subsequently abrogated by Allaah’s command to fight and wage jihad. So whoever refuses to enter Islam should be fought when the Muslims are able to fight, until they either enter Islam or pay the jizyah if they are among the people who may pay jizyah. The kuffaar should be compelled to enter Islam if they are not people from whom the jizyah may be taken, because that will lead to their happiness and salvation in this world and in the Hereafter. Obliging a person to adhere to the truth in which is guidance and happiness is better for him than falsehood. Just as a person may be forced to do the duty that he owes to other people even if that is by means of imprisonment or beating, so forcing the kaafirs to believe in Allaah alone and enter into the religion of Islam is more important and more essential, because this will lead to their happiness in this world and in the Hereafter. This applies unless they are People of the Book, i.e., Jews and Christians, or Magians, because Islam says that these three groups may be given the choice: they may enter Islam or they may pay the jizyah and feel themselves subdued.

Some of the scholars are of the view that others may also be given the choice between Islam and jizyah, but the most correct view is that no others should be given this choice, rather these three groups are the only ones who may be given the choice, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) fought the kuffaar in the Arabian Peninsula and he only accepted their becoming Muslim. And Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“But if they repent [by rejecting Shirk (polytheism) and accept Islamic Monotheism] and perform As-Salaah (Iqaamat-as-Salaah), and give Zakaah, then leave their way free. Verily, Allaah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful”

[al-Tawbah 9:5]

He did not say, “if they pay the jizyah”. The Jews, Christians and Magians are to be asked to enter Islam; if they refuse then they should be asked to pay the jizyah. If they refuse to pay the jizyah then the Muslims must fight them if they are able to do so. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allaah, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allaah and His Messenger (Muhammad), (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued”

[al-Tawbah 9:29]

And it was proven that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) accepted the jizyah from the Magians, but it was not proven that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) or his companions (may Allaah be pleased with them) accepted the jizyah from anyone except the three groups mentioned above.

The basic principle concerning that is the words of Allaah (interpretation of the meaning):

“And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism, i.e. worshipping others besides Allaah), and the religion (worship) will all be for Allaah Alone [in the whole of the world]”

[al-Anfaal 8:39]

“Then when the Sacred Months (the 1st, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikoon (see V.2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush. But if they repent [by rejecting Shirk (polytheism) and accept Islamic Monotheism] and perform As-Salaah (Iqaamat-as-Salaah), and give Zakaah, then leave their way free. Verily, Allaah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful”

[al-Tawbah 9:5]

This verse is known as Ayat al-Sayf (the verse of the sword).

These and similar verses abrogate the verses which say that there is no compulsion to become Muslim.

And Allaah is the Source of strength.
Majmoo’ Fataawa wa Maqaalaat li’l-Shaykh Ibn Baaz, 6/219


Would love to know views of wahhabis like anajmi, araz etc , since they often quote these websites , do they really believe in the above fatwa?

This only shows how peaceful our dawoodi community is compared to the other musalmaans. We dont have such fatwas and are progressive under the able guidance of dai ul asar MAULA MUFADDAL MOLA TUS. Every mumin has become rich and ba adab without waging a war or getting tempted by the munafiqeen here. others dont have anything!

Your thinking proves beyond doubt that it is you who are kafir who prefers what a kafir says over an Islamic scholar with proofs from Quran and Sunnah, and yes for us islamqa is a trusted source and your maligning has no effect on us.

[anajmi]

Actually, i personally do not quote from this website. If you can find a post where i have, please let me know.

[topiwala]

Actually, i personally do not quote from this website. If you can find a post where i have, please let me know.

So can you please refute what he has said, and your friend araz believes it, also i saw in wiki that islamqa is banned in your beloved saudi arabia, it is even blocked , saudis cannot read from that site. I also read wahhabis themsleves have many firqas like anti saudi, deobandi, salafi themselves are divided into dozens like madkali,sorori,zakiri,isis based on politics. So can you clear to what wahhabi sect you belong to, also araz you too please clarify .

Anajmi also you were bragging about following quran and sunnah in earlier posts, then what makes you not believe in a reputed famous wahhabi scholar who has given proof from "quran and sunnah", is it because it does not confirm with your own wahhabi sect? and dont tell me that you are not wahhabi. Just tell us which wahhabi sect you belong to. Araz already made it clear that it is trusted source for him.

[anajmi]

I belong to the idol-worshipper-dreamt-up-wahhabi sect. And by the way, if you ask our resident atheist fool, he will tell you that all websites are telling their own truth.

[topiwala]

You just evaded my question and did the same old tactic of calling us idol worshipper, I am really amazed why some people think this way. Before I came to this forum I never knew that terrorism was inspired by this label of idol worshipper, infact on some search I found that terrorist themselves like to be called terrorists drawing from the Quran "to strike terror in the hearts of disbeliever.." anajmi is a forum version of a terrorist.

see your salafi\wahhabi preachers defining terrorism and instead of denying the label are welcoming this label:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0PSoySAat0

It is amazing the kind of Propoganda is being spread using yotube by wahhabi preachers like zakir naik, bilal philips etc btw the guy above also comes on peace tv, which means zakir naik also is of the same ideology which is why he even went on to say " All muslims should be terrorists" !! drawing the same QUranic verses.

[anajmi]

Well, the reason I call you an idol worshipper is because you are one aren't you? Do you stand in front of the Dai with folded hands? Yes you do. Do you stand in front of Allah with folded hands? No you don't. While praying when you stand in front of Allah, you have your hands to your sides. And you are always in a hurry while praying salaah when you are worshipping Allah, to go your more important task of worshipping your idol or doing his deedar. There is a reason why Allah has prohibited muslims from making his idols. He wanted the muslims to not get into this deedar business. Alas, for the bohras, his commands fell on senseless beings.

Also, bohras believe that they will not enter jannah without the permission of the Dai. It doesn't matter if they have the permission of Allah or not. Allah cannot supercede the Dai. A bohra weasel will tell you that the Dai and Allah will always agree. Which again proves that the abde bohra is an idol worshipper!!

[qutub_mamajiwala]

actually abdes and wahabi are the two sides of same coin with minimalistic difference.
principally and theoritically both are same.
one revers and worships dai and other has the same status for ibn taimiyya , hasan al banna and mohd abdul wahab.
both follow the interpretation of quran of their respective gurus and consider them the word of Allah.

[anajmi]

bikini is a modest dress is not their interpretation, it is yours!!

[qutub_mamajiwala]

it is not my interperetation also if u care to read.
but in some parts of world--very far out of ur reach--it is considered modest--like some scandinavian countries.
it is their culture and tradition like u have urs--both are not gud or bad just becoz of their tradition. they have theirs --u have urs.
but by ur standard, they all are bad and doing bad deeds just becoz their tradition and custom differs from urs.
anyway i used the word bikini for a symbolic purpose only just to impress the point made. but like usual typical wahabi mindset, u focussed on the word and not context and bigger picture--same like u do to interpret quran and its meaning.

[anajmi]

but in some parts of world--very far out of ur reach--it is considered modest--like some scandinavian countries.

Again, let us not hide behind what they do in some scandinavian countries. Swapping wives is considered modest in some countries. Virgin girls after the age of 18 is considered backward in some countries. There are many such examples. But those professing to be muslims shouldn't be worried about bikinis worn in scandinavian countries. Worry about what happens in your own home which you claim is Islamic!!

[qutub_mamajiwala]

hello bro
rest assured i am not worried about anything except myself.
just pointing out the twisted theory about wahabis seeing everthing from the prism of their own making.
considering everything islamic or unislamic according to their own whims and fancies.
like judging people based on their dress instead of their deeds.

[anajmi]

Deeds are most of the times, invisible. Only appearances are visible. So if i see someone is roaming around in a bikini, i wont be thinking that she is going to the homeless shelter to serve the homeless. Get the point?

[humanbeing]

considering everything islamic or unislamic according to their own whims and fancies.
like judging people based on their dress instead of their deeds.

there are extremist thinkers at all sides, be it shia sunni or wahabi. for example

Dont Say god .. say allah

kalema must be recited in arabic only, english version is fine .. but arabic is must.

individually, they are stuck with what they do is absolutely right with no scope of accepting some one else's view.

Sunni wants to pray with hands folded, shia wants to pray with hand on the side, either side will not switch or perform other ways.

[qutub_mamajiwala]

Deeds are most of the times, invisible. Only appearances are visible. So if i see someone is roaming around in a bikini, i wont be thinking that she is going to the homeless shelter to serve the homeless. Get the point?

exactly dear
that was what i was trying to point it out.
u wont be thinking she is going to shelter the homeless--it is ur thinking and perfectly fine.
just dont make it allahs and quranic thinking.

[anajmi]

Right. So according to Allah's and Quran's thinking the bikini clad woman is going to the homeless shelter to serve the homeless? which scandinavian country follows your interpretation of the quran?

What a waste of time!

[qutub_mamajiwala]

why cant she go?
is there any rule she cant go to shelter?
which of ur ayah says that?

[anajmi]

Good, so you will be sending your wife out in a bikini the next time around right? And make sure your daughter goes to school in a bikini too!!

[KA786110]

LOL. You have some B fetish or what? Your mind is stuck in B gear. Every thread you touch gets derailed from its main topic. Wherever you see mamjiwala, you automatically switch to B mode. You are like a stalker.

[qutub_mamajiwala]

Good, so you will be sending your wife out in a bikini the next time around right? And make sure your daughter goes to school in a bikini too!!

LOL--i cant coz ur shrouded wife and daughter will stand in between with gun to kill them --right?

[anajmi]

Well, you are thinking about my wife and daughter in a hijab and i an thinking about your wife and daughter in a bikini. I guess we each got what we wanted.

[qutub_mamajiwala]

well i did not wanted it.
u started getting personal, not me.(read all the above post-if u cant remember)
i was just talking about quran and not urs or my family.
that shows ur character and yes i am happy with it.

[humanbeing]

Bro QM

you could have used example of a simple dress code such as jeans and top, salwar kameez, office formals etc to exert your POV. beyond the bikin example I relate your point.

Anajmi, you are smarter to understand QM's point but rigid to acknowledge to defend your idea of moedsty lies only in hijaab niqaab burqa type of dresses.you are entitled to your POV and so does QM, or anyone women or men.

Women wearing decent office formals or social casuals or any such other dress code either by fashion or culture shall be fine. There is nothing islamic about burqa, hijaab or niqaab. i consider them cultural rather than religious.

[anajmi]

that shows ur character and yes i am happy with it.

What character are you referring to? Bikini is a modest dress as per your interpretation of the Quran. So if I imagine someone in a bikini, my character still remains "gud" doesn't it?

There is nothing islamic about burqa, hijaab or niqaab.

That is an ignorant statement. Burqa, hijaab and niqaab are all worn to follow commands of Allah and the prophet (saw).

[SBM]

Well, you are thinking about my wife and daughter in a hijab and i an thinking about your wife and daughter in a bikini. I guess we each got what we wanted.

Br Anjami
A Good Muslim would not be thinking about some one else's wife. Even one of the ten commandments talks about neighbor's wife

Thou shalt not covet (neighbor's wife)

[anajmi]

Now why would you assume that thinking about someone's wife in a bikini is the same as coveting? The bikini is supposed to be a modest dress as per the Quran. Maybe I am thinking about his wife in a bikini distributing food packets to the starving. Why do you assume that if I am thinking of a woman in a bikini I am thinking bad thoughts? Is there something wrong with a bikini?

[qutub_mamajiwala]

bro
first read fully what i wrote
concept of modesty differs from place to place and time to time.
middle eastern concept of modesty would differ from far east and still from other countries.
and yes, if u want to see any women in bikini--it is ur problem
thanks quran does not mention anything about it--same as it does not mention anything about niqab and hijab.

[qutub_mamajiwala]

Now why would you assume that thinking about someone's wife in a bikini is the same as coveting? The bikini is supposed to be a modest dress as per the Quran. Maybe I am thinking about his wife in a bikini distributing food packets to the starving. Why do you assume that if I am thinking of a woman in a bikini I am thinking bad thoughts? Is there something wrong with a bikini?

nothing bad bro and as stated by you only sometime before, deeds are invisible and only clothes are visible, so u can only see clothes.
to u SMS must be the most pious person walking on earth today coz his clothes are fully according to u islamic and his deeds are invisble.

[anajmi]

Actually, bikini isnt "modest" in any culture except in your head because of your hatred towards the islamic dress. That is why you were unable to answer even simple hypothetical questions with sincerity.

As far as sms is concerned his deeds are visible. If the only thing i saw were his clothes i would definitely consider him to be far more pious than a guy running around in his underwear, cause i would be seeing him obey atleast one command of Allah.

[qutub_mamajiwala]

that is as ignorant as it gets.
but gud now atleast ur trying to debate modesty according to culture.
if it is not modest in any culture--so be it--i dont object then.
but if it is, then u should also not object.
as regards visible deeds and clothes--ur contracdicting ur own comments--not mine.