Imam Hussain and Ashura of moharram

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nastik
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2015 6:39 am

Imam Hussain and Ashura of moharram

#1

Unread post by nastik » Wed Jul 15, 2015 2:34 am

no matter which dai you all follow. I am sure you all follow Imam Hussain. Atleast, you all grieve for Imam Hussain. As the dais's always said " Ek Hussain ne gham na sivai koi gham na hoi". Everyone even the non shia or non muslim can feel the pain of Imam Hussain, because he sacrificed his entire house for the sake of religion.

but, if we take a logical understanding to the whole thing was it actually as it has been portrayed, let see :

1. there are already doubts about how did Imam Hussain reach from Mecca to Karbala in the time frame that has been mentioned. this mystery has still never been solved.

2. we hear "Imam Hussain, Rasullilaha no den adaa kidu che". now what was this den, why was Allah asking Rasullillaha for a sacrifice. Rasullillah was His most beloved prophet. Allah we all say is the most Merciful. why was the most merciful asking his most beloved prophet for such a sacrifice.

3. not very important but than, "Jibrael Imam Hussain n khidmat ma aaya, Hussain ye farmayu Khuda ni su marzi che ". Why was Jibrael coming to offer help after the whole ahle bayt had been killed. Imam Hussain knew about the whole event, why was he still asking " Khuda ni su marzi che".

4. We say "Imam Hussain ye shahdat ikhtyaar kari ne jeeti gaya". there was a larger number of sunni followers than the shia followers. even today the larger number is the sunni followers. infact, in madina the shia followers who were there have also no longer remained prominent. Infact the family or successors of Imam Hussain had to flee madina and take shelter in Egypt and later had to flee Egypt and settle down at yemen. How than do we say Imam Hussain won. he lost everything on the path of Allah.

5. We say " aaje bhi Hussain nu naam baki che" but than Yazid was never fighting for spiritual name. he wanted power and even after him his son was so powerful that for 90 years they had control over the entire region and expanded upto Portugal in Europe. it was only after the Abbasyd period that they were overthrown. Today the name of Akbar Badshah is only in the history books but the followers of Sai Baba or other such spiritual leaders always remain. that is the same in this case also.

If anyone believer on this forum for Imam Hussain and ahle bayt kindly explain the story of Imam Hussain is real or myth like the story of Ramayana. the incident is real not denying that. The story that we hear sounds to be unreal.



humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Imam Hussain and Ashura of moharram

#2

Unread post by humanbeing » Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:58 am

In many bayaans, orators says prophet Muhammad knew the fate of karbala while Imam hussein was in his infancy, . there are rivayats of red and green color dress being selected for Imam hussein and hassan. these events are drummed up in narration.

is that true ? I feel knowing the future and announcing it like that, takes away the merit and courage morals story of karbala presents. it is unfair to Imam hussain and caravan's struggles and determination to stand against tyranny, when they knew thier fate so well in advance.

Angel Jibraeel interacted only with prophets, please correct me if wrong. in bayaans I have heard Jibreel interacting with Imam Ali and Imam hussein !

Also Angels do not have free will, they only follow Allah's commands. in karbala rivayat, it says, Jibreel spoke to Imam hussein and offered to help to kill all the enemies in one sweep. but Imam hussein enquired about Khuda ni marzi, which was to surrender (shahadat). How could Jibreel offer Imam hussein something that would contradict with Khuda ni marzi ?

Story of Karbala is definately heart wrenching, an example of determination and courage. but was the casuality of karbala war only worthy of such huge mention, what about other wars, where muslims died and suffered similar torture and fate.

There is no blame on ahley bayt, but thier followers have created a huge commercial and economical industry from ahle-bayt's suffering and position. Islam is an universal religion, there are many who sacrificed to keep the faith alive. but for ahley bayt followers, nothing comes close to suffering of family members of prophet only. i feel this is a biased outlook, rather a self serving approach of leaders to create fragments and rule the followers. for an instance, there is rivayat of Hamza, where in the battle a tribal contract killer hinda tore open his torso and pulled out his liver, but we dont see such a huge mention of his sacrifice, we dont go yaa hamza ya hamza all the time .. is the blood of prophet muhammed's family only important to be grieved ! the sacrifices of many such other non related muslims are lost in history !!



MUSTAPH
Posts: 131
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:24 am

Re: Imam Hussain and Ashura of moharram

#3

Unread post by MUSTAPH » Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:11 pm

Nastik

The analysis that you have done about the karbala battle is so practical. I was not a firm believer of the dai system, but after this I could conclude that the Imam system in our bohra community is simply over hyped. I mean your point that the population of shia had not outnumbered sunni even after the sacrifice of Hussain signifies that the battle of karbala was nothing spiritual but just another Islamic war.

But, than let me take this opportunity to ask you why is the small number of people following Ali and majority muslim don't consider him the wasi of Prophet Muhammad.





Biradar
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Re: Imam Hussain and Ashura of moharram

#6

Unread post by Biradar » Wed Jul 15, 2015 11:22 pm

It is mind boggling that one has started questioning even the events of Karbala. The link posted by GM seems to indicate that the event never happened, and after all, Yazid (LA) was a nice guy. This is terrible, and how one can claim to be Shia if one thinks this is not clear to me.

Just a small point: remember that not everyone was killed by the armies of Yazid. Imam Ali Zain-al-abeedeen survived and so did his sister, Mulatena Zainab. They both recalled the events of Karbala to their followers, and Zainab gave a speech in the court of Yazid (LA). The actions of Mukhtar were also based on the events of Karbala. Earlier events which indicated the enmity of the Muawiya (LA) against Ali and his family are also well documented. Sure, some aspects of mythical legends creep in over time, but it is likely that the overall story is true.

Next, I suggest our friend GM find a link to an article which questions if Rasulallah was "Fact of Fiction" and if the Quran was just something he made up. Then "humanbeing" can give his skeptical analysis. That should even it out. Amazing.



nastik
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2015 6:39 am

Re: Imam Hussain and Ashura of moharram

#7

Unread post by nastik » Thu Jul 16, 2015 4:40 am

@ MUSTAPH

the argument that " man kunto maula haza Aliun maula" was indicating Ali to be declared as the leader as Mohammed was the leader. This was to a particular incident that took place before the last hajj in the battle of Yemen. the army had disobeyed Ali during this battle. If this was to appoint Ali as a successor than it should have been done when the entire muslim population was there for Hajj.
It was only the the close aides of Ali and the persian prisoners of war that for whom Ali used to fight for have taken Ali as their leader. The shia sect of Islam gives more importance to the person than the religion, which we are seeing even today in bohra community let it be Sulaimani, dawoodi or Alavi bohra.


@Biradar

just imagine if, Ibrahim, Musa, Isa or even Muhammed would not have questioned the blind belief of their time they would not be prophets. So , you should not complain about people questioning. Infact for a change try to accept these questions and start finding answers to these. this will make your belief free from rules and regulations laid down by the present day authorities.



Al-Noor
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Re: Imam Hussain and Ashura of moharram

#8

Unread post by Al-Noor » Thu Jul 16, 2015 4:49 am

Your jhalat and doubting nature is beyond repair, but again I suggest you to visit karbala once in your life and see if your heart can find peace and your eyes can see truth.

there is lot I can say and prove but I think there is no point unless ALLAH want you to see it....typing pages and pages wont help when heart is blind. best of luck.



nastik
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2015 6:39 am

Re: Imam Hussain and Ashura of moharram

#9

Unread post by nastik » Thu Jul 16, 2015 4:59 am

the easiest way to hide the face when there is nothing to say. but understand today times have changed. your these excuses are clearly showing you are afraid to accept change.



Al-Noor
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Re: Imam Hussain and Ashura of moharram

#10

Unread post by Al-Noor » Thu Jul 16, 2015 5:04 am

nastik wrote:the easiest way to hide the face when there is nothing to say. but understand today times have changed. your these excuses are clearly showing you are afraid to accept change.
NO I dont need to hide my face because I have no materialistic gain out of it, I am not claiming to know every thing neither I am afraid of changes. repent as much as you can and ask ALLAH only ALLAH can show light to those who deserve it.


Al Quran speaks on this subject in much details

Whomsoever Allâh sends astray, none can guide him; and He lets them wander blindly in their transgressions. (7:186)



Al-Noor
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Re: Imam Hussain and Ashura of moharram

#11

Unread post by Al-Noor » Thu Jul 16, 2015 5:08 am

Al-Noor wrote:
nastik wrote:the easiest way to hide the face when there is nothing to say. but understand today times have changed. your these excuses are clearly showing you are afraid to accept change.
NO I dont need to hide my face because I have no materialistic gain out of it, I am not claiming to know every thing neither I am afraid of changes. repent as much as you can and ask ALLAH only ALLAH can show light to those who deserve it.


Al Quran speaks on this subject in much details

Whomsoever Allâh sends astray, none can guide him; and He lets them wander blindly in their transgressions. (7:186)

nothing has been changed in last 1400 years when it comes to human nature.



anajmi
Posts: 13399
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Imam Hussain and Ashura of moharram

#12

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Jul 16, 2015 5:25 am

It is mind boggling that one has started questioning even the events of Karbala.
Why is that mind boggling? If people can question the existence of Allah, then questioning everything that happened in the name of Allah is the obvious next step, no?



nastik
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2015 6:39 am

Re: Imam Hussain and Ashura of moharram

#13

Unread post by nastik » Thu Jul 16, 2015 6:51 am

Al-Noor wrote:
nastik wrote:the easiest way to hide the face when there is nothing to say. but understand today times have changed. your these excuses are clearly showing you are afraid to accept change.
NO I dont need to hide my face because I have no materialistic gain out of it, I am not claiming to know every thing neither I am afraid of changes. repent as much as you can and ask ALLAH only ALLAH can show light to those who deserve it.


Al Quran speaks on this subject in much details

Whomsoever Allâh sends astray, none can guide him; and He lets them wander blindly in their transgressions. (7:186)

Al Noor
As said on the other topic you are a blind follower of the one who guided you to Allah. you are not open to change. I will repeat the same here "Whomsoever Allâh sends astray, none can guide him; and He lets them wander blindly in their transgressions." no one will be able to guide you because you are sent astray.

so sorry brother will not be able to help you



Al-Noor
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Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:55 am

Re: Imam Hussain and Ashura of moharram

#14

Unread post by Al-Noor » Thu Jul 16, 2015 7:47 am

ROFL :lol: this guy has some serious issue...I have a doubt that this guy is bahai or may be ahmedi but that doesn't matter slowly he will come to his point sooner or latter lets see....



ghulam muhammed
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Re: Imam Hussain and Ashura of moharram

#15

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Thu Jul 16, 2015 5:38 pm

Bro Biradar,

My idea of posting that link was because it was relevant to the thread and to engage in a healthy debate but that doesn't mean that I agree to whatever is written in it. I do believe that the event of Karbala did take place but I don't believe the fairy tales attached to it which is only to emotionally charge the audience. Moreover it is ridiculous to believe the bayan of a Dai who SELLS his vayez to the highest bidding Jamaat and accepts Ziyafats immediately after Ashura.



nastik
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2015 6:39 am

Re: Imam Hussain and Ashura of moharram

#16

Unread post by nastik » Fri Jul 17, 2015 8:26 am

[quote="Biradar"]It is mind boggling that one has started questioning even the events of Karbala.

Biradar

Asking questions about the karbala events sounds mind boggling. but, the fanfare that is happening for years on the pretext of karbala events sounds acceptable. You deep down your heart are not interested in mourning for Imam Hussain and ahle bayt but seem to be more interested in making your dai happy by the drama that every year happens on the name of Imam Hussain.

for me its simple if I am expected to believe in Allah/God than I have full rights to ask questions about my belief if I have any doubts. You are the believer of the society, community and people who preach to believe in Allah/God so it is mind boggling for you to ask questions about Allah/God but you can sit in comfort and pass judgements about the society, community and those people.



abde53
Posts: 291
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Re: Imam Hussain and Ashura of moharram

#17

Unread post by abde53 » Sat Jul 18, 2015 9:32 am

I have question please do not call me any names, it is just wandering mind
Biradar Bhai
In the Waiz Bayan, we always hear that after every one from Imam Hussain's family was killed, when Imam Hussain came to Maidan, and he was injured, Jibrail came to Imam Hussain, Imam Hussain asked him key Allah ni su Marzi chey, Jibril ye kahyoo key moula ni khushi chey key tamey Shahadat jo Jaam piley jo. Jibril em paan bashart aapi key aa maj tamara Nanaji ni khushi chey. at that time Shimr Laeen ehney qatal karwar aayo Imam yeh ehney kidho key eh Shimr main mara Moula ni Khushi manzoor chey and maney aheno sajdo bajawil leva dehe, Imam Husain Sajda maa gaya and Shimr Laeen yeh ehni Gardan Utari didehi

So here is the question, if according to our Dai including Syenda Mohammed Burhanuudin RA narrated the same one it looks that Allaha wanted Imam Hussain to become Shahid and we all know that Shahadat (fighting evils for defending Islam) has the highest place for rewards . It is said that Shaheed will be guaranteed a place in in Jannat.

So if Imam Hussain did what Allaha wanted and we all know that he went to Jannat then why we should do Maatam because Mataam represents sorrow for something wrong but here we should rejoice of his Shahadat and the rewards he and his family received and we should all pray that we can follow the example of Imam Hussain and give our lives defending Islam from the evils for Allaha



kseeker
Posts: 98
Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Imam Hussain and Ashura of moharram

#18

Unread post by kseeker » Sun Jul 19, 2015 3:55 pm

nastik wrote:no matter which dai you all follow. I am sure you all follow Imam Hussain. Atleast, you all grieve for Imam Hussain. As the dais's always said " Ek Hussain ne gham na sivai koi gham na hoi". Everyone even the non shia or non muslim can feel the pain of Imam Hussain, because he sacrificed his entire house for the sake of religion.

but, if we take a logical understanding to the whole thing was it actually as it has been portrayed, let see :

1. there are already doubts about how did Imam Hussain reach from Mecca to Karbala in the time frame that has been mentioned. this mystery has still never been solved.

2. we hear "Imam Hussain, Rasullilaha no den adaa kidu che". now what was this den, why was Allah asking Rasullillaha for a sacrifice. Rasullillah was His most beloved prophet. Allah we all say is the most Merciful. why was the most merciful asking his most beloved prophet for such a sacrifice.

3. not very important but than, "Jibrael Imam Hussain n khidmat ma aaya, Hussain ye farmayu Khuda ni su marzi che ". Why was Jibrael coming to offer help after the whole ahle bayt had been killed. Imam Hussain knew about the whole event, why was he still asking " Khuda ni su marzi che".

4. We say "Imam Hussain ye shahdat ikhtyaar kari ne jeeti gaya". there was a larger number of sunni followers than the shia followers. even today the larger number is the sunni followers. infact, in madina the shia followers who were there have also no longer remained prominent. Infact the family or successors of Imam Hussain had to flee madina and take shelter in Egypt and later had to flee Egypt and settle down at yemen. How than do we say Imam Hussain won. he lost everything on the path of Allah.

5. We say " aaje bhi Hussain nu naam baki che" but than Yazid was never fighting for spiritual name. he wanted power and even after him his son was so powerful that for 90 years they had control over the entire region and expanded upto Portugal in Europe. it was only after the Abbasyd period that they were overthrown. Today the name of Akbar Badshah is only in the history books but the followers of Sai Baba or other such spiritual leaders always remain. that is the same in this case also.

If anyone believer on this forum for Imam Hussain and ahle bayt kindly explain the story of Imam Hussain is real or myth like the story of Ramayana. the incident is real not denying that. The story that we hear sounds to be unreal.

Dear Nastik,

I would like to answer some of you questions here...


1. As far as I know, the distance between Mecca and Karbala is around 1800kms.. it is highly unlikely the distance is more than that.. now.. Imam hussain left Mecca on the 8th of Zul Hajj and reached Karbala on the 2nd of Muharram.. which means they had a good 24 days to travel... They had a caravan of 50 odd members.. Highly unlikely that anyone was on foot... so 1800km in 24 days means 75Kms a day.... I don't see how that is 'impossible'.. difficult? yes... but not even close to impossible....

2. Allah being merciful doesn't mean he promises anyone/everyone an easy life... Allah gave Mohammed (SAW) the duty to spread and preach islam.. the role comes with its benefits.. but im sure it comes with its truck loads of difficulties as well... Hussain (AS) in a way saved thousands from going astray... he has indeed helped the Prophet's cause.

3. He has asked for Allah's will to reinstate the fact that all this was for Allah.. not for his personal gain or benefit... else people would say that this was just another political endeavor in which one side lost and the other won..

4. Well.. how you define 'winning' is a matter of perspective. Maybe for you winning is just about gaining wealth, land and followers... for some it is about making a statement.... standing for what is right till the last breath...

5. I don't understand your statement completely so I will not comment on it...


I do agree that over the years, the historical facts must have been altered and a elements might have been added to the story to make it spicy... but I have no doubt that the base facts and morals are un changed.

Hussain (AS) was a man who stood for what he believed in. He saw Yazid consuming alochol and seated in a mujra 10 years before the events of Karbala and that is when he made is promise of never giving allegiance to Yazid if that day ever came.. and he stood his ground... He did not falter no matter what... there have been many martyrdoms throughout history but this was unique in the way that the whole event would have been pointless if he would have not died... for this event to be eternal, it was Hussain's death which was necessary... Yazid could have killed a thousand more but it would not have mattered as much to the people if Hussain was not one of them.. Yazid killing Ali Asghar was proof that he was out for blood and not just power...Hussain was not an egoistic person.. for Ali Asghar (who was too young to make his own choice) he did go out to the army and asked for water.. he let his pride down... for others who had the ability to make their choice, he had given free hand to choose whichever side they wanted... the faith his family had in him and his beliefs is just... beautiful....

there are very few out there who will go all out to fight for what we believe in... look at us.. hiding behind nicknames on a forum abusing the religion-turned-mafia without the balls to stand in front of these people and tell them for who they are..... i am sure there are people out here who have done that...but to the extent Hussain (AS) went? Highly unlikely..
Last edited by kseeker on Sun Jul 19, 2015 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.



kseeker
Posts: 98
Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Imam Hussain and Ashura of moharram

#19

Unread post by kseeker » Sun Jul 19, 2015 4:04 pm

abde53 wrote:I have question please do not call me any names, it is just wandering mind
Biradar Bhai
In the Waiz Bayan, we always hear that after every one from Imam Hussain's family was killed, when Imam Hussain came to Maidan, and he was injured, Jibrail came to Imam Hussain, Imam Hussain asked him key Allah ni su Marzi chey, Jibril ye kahyoo key moula ni khushi chey key tamey Shahadat jo Jaam piley jo. Jibril em paan bashart aapi key aa maj tamara Nanaji ni khushi chey. at that time Shimr Laeen ehney qatal karwar aayo Imam yeh ehney kidho key eh Shimr main mara Moula ni Khushi manzoor chey and maney aheno sajdo bajawil leva dehe, Imam Husain Sajda maa gaya and Shimr Laeen yeh ehni Gardan Utari didehi

So here is the question, if according to our Dai including Syenda Mohammed Burhanuudin RA narrated the same one it looks that Allaha wanted Imam Hussain to become Shahid and we all know that Shahadat (fighting evils for defending Islam) has the highest place for rewards . It is said that Shaheed will be guaranteed a place in in Jannat.

So if Imam Hussain did what Allaha wanted and we all know that he went to Jannat then why we should do Maatam because Mataam represents sorrow for something wrong but here we should rejoice of his Shahadat and the rewards he and his family received and we should all pray that we can follow the example of Imam Hussain and give our lives defending Islam from the evils for Allaha


Maatam is haraam - when I say "Maatam".. I am reffering to the orchestrated physical beating done in bohra majlis. Imaam HUssain did not go through all what he did so that we can beat our chests in his memory... that being said, there is nothing wrong with recalling the events of Aashura in a sorrowful-fashion. I agree with you when you say that we should follow his example.. but when one wants to remember someone they loved (who also went through a lot of pain) they do so in sorrow and not happily.... after all , sorrow is a much stronger emotion than happiness.



dal-chaval-palidu
Posts: 416
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Re: Imam Hussain and Ashura of moharram

#20

Unread post by dal-chaval-palidu » Sun Jul 19, 2015 10:30 pm

Agree with kseeker.

Exaggerations have been added over time in the story of Karbala, but that does not take away from the essence of Imam Hussein’s contribution to Islam. About a year back, I wrote about what I saw as Imam Hussein’s critical contribution to Islam. Instead of repeating it here, I am providing the link below.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9797&start=60#p137742

Further, some additional thougths are noted below:

If we claim to be the "spiritual heirs" of Imam Husain, we should have stood up against Modi (at least not get prominently in "bed" with him) as he basically was responsible for the killing of Muslims. This is just one example, there are others.

Essentially, Imam Husain stood up for truth and against the mighty, and we bohris don't do that. We do "charta suraj ne pujwanu". Doing matam is an easy and in my mind a "cop out" way to say we are sorry for Imam Husain's martyrdom. The true way to be a follower of Imam Husain would be to stand up for what is right in our times. There is injustice and wrong going on in each era, and to be a true follower of Imam Husain would be that we should stand up against whatever injustice and evil that is currently taking place.

And I would think we Bohris (myself included) would not pass that test. That is just my opinion.



ghulam muhammed
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Re: Imam Hussain and Ashura of moharram

#21

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Mon Jul 20, 2015 4:24 pm

dal-chaval-palidu wrote:Doing matam is an easy and in my mind a "cop out" way to say we are sorry for Imam Husain's martyrdom.
I remember reading somewhere that Matam which was originally started by Shias was accompanied by shouts of "Hum nahi they" instead of "Ya Hussain" which according to the author of the article was a "cop out" by Shias to distance themselves from the blame of Imam Hussain's Shahadat as history proves that the tragedy of Karbala took place only because the Shias of Kufa betrayed Hussain (a.s.) and instead of giving "bayt" to him they ran away due to fear of Yazid's army. Now in order to cover-up their betrayal, they completely changed the context of "Hum nahi they" thereby telling people that we mourn and lament the Shahadat to such an extent that we (the present day Shias) cry and weep for not being in Karbala to attain Shahadat alongwith Imam Hussain (a.s.).



qutub_mamajiwala
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Re: Imam Hussain and Ashura of moharram

#22

Unread post by qutub_mamajiwala » Tue Jul 21, 2015 4:04 am

this is only half truth.
even if shias would not have betrayed, or husain would have gone elsewhere, yazid would have eventually got him.
the main thing to remember is yazid wanted his bayt at any cost and had hounded him in medina and mecca. he would have chased him anywhere else also if he had gone elsewhere instead of kufa and devised some other tactics like he did in replacing governor of kufa by obedullah bin ziyad. the essence is he wanted bayt of husain at any cost to legalize and make halal all haraam things. there is no way husain would have agreed to this. he would be killed sooneer or later, if not this way--then other way--but there is no doubt about it.
all the billions and billions muslims from that day onwards till the day of qyamat are in debt of him by not giving bayt to yazid else now the proud followers of puritinical islam and siting quran and sunnah at the drop of hat, would be doing all haram things and saying there is no wahi, no rasool, only a luncatic from hashim tribe came and started all this nonsense.
the fact that they are able to read quran and sunnah without distortions is coz husain did not give bayt to yazid and instead preferred to get slained.



SBM
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Re: Imam Hussain and Ashura of moharram

#23

Unread post by SBM » Tue Jul 21, 2015 7:16 am

Qutub Bhai
I do not know if Yazid wanted Imam Hussain's Bait at any cost. It seems that even Imam Hassan did not take any bait and reached a compromise with Yazid to go to Medina, not take Bait of Yazid but also not to claim the succession either.
On the other hand since Imam Hussain was invited by people of Kufa to take Bait on him and were against the Yazidi Raaj, he went at their invitation otherwise Imam Hussain himself had NO desire to claim on succession and had refused the Bait of Yazid too.



qutub_mamajiwala
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Re: Imam Hussain and Ashura of moharram

#24

Unread post by qutub_mamajiwala » Wed Jul 22, 2015 3:04 am

imam hassan did not make any comprise with yazid, but he made with mauawiyah.
that treaty also had many clauses like not to curse ali in khutbah and many such.
ofcourse he did not obey and adhered to all the clauses of treaty.
but that is another story.
some shias wanted imam hassan to fight mauawiah, but knowing the circumstances and diminishing numbers of shias, in his wise capacity he refrained and stayed at medina peacefully.
when husain suceeded him, muawiayah was still ruler and husain kept the pledge of his brother and refrained from fighting.
it is only when yazid succeeded him and wanted his bayt, he arose to confront him by not pledging the alliance.
one of the clauses of treaty of muawiayah with imam hassan was also that yazid would not automatically succeed him and matter would be discussed with all especially with him or husain.



qutub_mamajiwala
Posts: 988
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Re: Imam Hussain and Ashura of moharram

#25

Unread post by qutub_mamajiwala » Wed Jul 22, 2015 3:14 am

shias inviting imam husain is only one aspect of the story.
yazid wanted his bayt at any cost or else why did he told the hakim of medina to take bayt of husain.
he told to take bayt or kill him if he refuse. he called him at night to pledge alliance, and imam husain had to migrate to mecca.
he should have gone to kufa instead if invitations of shias was the only aspect. he stayed in mecca for 3 months and gave long sermons to everybody. his collections of khutba in mecca itself is a study in political science. if u read his khutba in mecca one will understand how much deep knowledge it has and how a ruler should be. it is a encyclopedia of all form of government.
it is only when he came to know, yazid is after him and has send mercenaries to kill him in mecca and he did not want desecrate the noble house, he started his journey to kufa where shias were inviting him.



JC
Posts: 1624
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Imam Hussain and Ashura of moharram

#26

Unread post by JC » Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:44 am

I fully agree with Nastik, SBM and Ghulam Mohammad.

If Mohammad and Hussain did what Allah wanted, as per Kothari interpretations, why do matam, cry, shout?? By doing all these are you all not defying God??

Gabriel use to come to Prophets only?? How come he 'visited' Hussain?? WHO 'listened' to what he said to Hussain? 'After' his so-called discussion with Gabriel, Hussain never went back so chances of him narrating all these to Zainab does not arise. So much so that it is claimed that 'Jeebrael Na ankhono ma anju awe gaya' ........... who SAW the tears???? Who 'counted' 12 ragras?? How could have Zainab heard what Hussain and Shimr discussed before Hussain was beheaded??

The matter of the fact is that Hussain went to Kufa on the invitations of Kufans who were willing to accept him as their leader, they betrayed him and Hussain and his family was massacred in Karbala. The 'details' are just fabrication; matam is guilt of Kufans and what followed is history ..............

All this 'Imamat' and so many Dais floating here and there are for money and power. Religion was never, it is not now and it will never be.



Al-Noor
Posts: 1075
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:55 am

Re: Imam Hussain and Ashura of moharram

#27

Unread post by Al-Noor » Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:42 pm

JC wrote:I fully agree with Nastik, SBM and Ghulam Mohammad.

If Mohammad and Hussain did what Allah wanted, as per Kothari interpretations, why do matam, cry, shout?? By doing all these are you all not defying God??

Gabriel use to come to Prophets only?? How come he 'visited' Hussain?? WHO 'listened' to what he said to Hussain? 'After' his so-called discussion with Gabriel, Hussain never went back so chances of him narrating all these to Zainab does not arise. So much so that it is claimed that 'Jeebrael Na ankhono ma anju awe gaya' ........... who SAW the tears???? Who 'counted' 12 ragras?? How could have Zainab heard what Hussain and Shimr discussed before Hussain was beheaded??

The matter of the fact is that Hussain went to Kufa on the invitations of Kufans who were willing to accept him as their leader, they betrayed him and Hussain and his family was massacred in Karbala. The 'details' are just fabrication; matam is guilt of Kufans and what followed is history ..............

All this 'Imamat' and so many Dais floating here and there are for money and power. Religion was never, it is not now and it will never be.
I really request you to stay out of religious debate specially if its about Islam, you should not forget what you are and according to Islam you are wajibul qatl. please dont make me repeat this again.



anajmi
Posts: 13399
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Imam Hussain and Ashura of moharram

#28

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:03 pm

JC,

I would ignore this moron. If anyone is wajib ul qatl it should be morons like him. But even he isnt wajib ul qatl.



Al-Noor
Posts: 1075
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:55 am

Re: Imam Hussain and Ashura of moharram

#29

Unread post by Al-Noor » Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:10 pm

anajmi wrote:JC,

I would ignore this moron. If anyone is wajib ul qatl it should be morons like him. But even he isnt wajib ul qatl.
Looks like JC got a new partner :lol:



SBM
Posts: 6142
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Imam Hussain and Ashura of moharram

#30

Unread post by SBM » Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:12 pm

Admin
Pl delete An Noor's comment The are offensive and despicable. Where was he when a self declared Atheist was always talking about Islam
An Noor ( I did not use Al) has been here in the past with multiple Ids and once again he started showing his true colors