Sunnah of the Prophet

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canadian
Posts: 299
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:57 pm

Sunnah of the Prophet

#1

Unread post by canadian » Mon Mar 28, 2016 8:35 am

People talk of Sunnah, beards and purdah. Is there a picture of the prophet sporting a beard? Even if there was, may be he had no alternative but to have a beard because in those days there were no razors! Also the prophet rode a camel; why do these sunnah followers ride in a motor car? We have progressed so much, but these followers of so called sunnah want us to remain in the seventh century. As regards purdah, there was no such thing in the prophet’s world. I believe the purdah originated in North Africa. Neither the prophet nor ahle bayt asked their followers to remain backward or not to enjoy the good things in life, but now a days every tom dick and harry who wants to be called a true follower of Islam tells us not to be like westerners, but they are the first ones to take advantage of all the wonderful inventions and liberal policies we have received from western cultures.

And talking of kurta , saya and rida- where did these dresses come from? When I was growing up in Africa, old folks wore long shirts, ijaars and long coats and some women wore black purdahs but majority went out in sarees or Punjabi dresses. Like lisan ul dawat these dresses have been invented by our “masters” who want us to be sheep and not individuals with our own individual personalities.



qutub_mamajiwala
Posts: 995
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#2

Unread post by qutub_mamajiwala » Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:19 am

altaf wrote:I wonder why bohra turns out as a fashion lover and start being un-Islamic as soon as they leave dai and his corrupt regime?
look at the facebook members of this group, woman is in shorts, beardless unislamic looking man they dont even look like muslims.
what I am trying to say is, why do you have to leave sunnah and islam for leaving syedna?
this is why most movements fails because they simple call you munafiq because you look like one. and this is the reason people fail to attract mass of bohras.


follow sunnah of beard and rida (purdah) even if you dont follow syedna. Follow each sunnah dearly no matter you follow syedna or not...

And if you don't want to wear kurta sayya, ridah, then just come with an alternative. There are so many different types of decent islamic dresses that women can wear. If you really want to leave bohra community, then leave with dignity. Don't go and expose yourself shamelessly like westerners. No wonder later the same bohra community will pinpoint at you for becoming kafir.

Also teach your kids proper islamic culture and values, not syedna's brainwashing values.
islam is religion and western is a geographical location.
so how do u compare religious dress (if there is one) to geographical location dress(if there is one)



canadian
Posts: 299
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:57 pm

#3

Unread post by canadian » Mon Mar 28, 2016 10:12 am

altaf, Sir:

For the benefit of stupid people like me, could you kindly provide scientific proof of all the benefits of keeping a beard.
Next time I go to Eastern European countries or Indonesia, I shall ask those Muslim women if not keeping purdah makes them less Muslim.



canadian
Posts: 299
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:57 pm

#4

Unread post by canadian » Mon Mar 28, 2016 10:44 am

altaf wrote:
canadian wrote:altaf, Sir:

For the benefit of stupid people like me, could you kindly provide scientific proof of all the benefits of keeping a beard.
Next time I go to Eastern European countries or Indonesia, I shall ask those Muslim women if not keeping purdah makes them less Muslim.
I am assuming you are from Canada, so I expect you know how to use google for research purpose, here is two link for your reference.

http://www.al-islam.org/articles/islami ... -the-beard

http://www.islam.tc/beard/beard.html

Wordly benefits are here but for a muslim sunnah should be above all.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/life ... 651378.cms
altaf:
No offence. But I am not convinced for the following reasons:
There is no scientific proof. Both the articles are written by people who may be fallible; plus I personally believe that most hadiths were written a long, long time after the holy prophet’s death and may be “quoted” by the writer to serve his own or his master’s purpose.
Therefore, you can believe what you believe in and I shall believe what I want to believe in. Let’s agree to disagree.



canadian
Posts: 299
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#5

Unread post by canadian » Mon Mar 28, 2016 11:17 am

^^
There is nothing in the Quaran about beard. I did not say that the prophet did not keep a beard. But if he did it does not mean that I must have one. Similarly the prophet did not use a motor car , a telephone or a computer, but you and I do.



think
Posts: 1800
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:15 am

#6

Unread post by think » Mon Mar 28, 2016 11:40 am

accountability is the main issue. We all want to0 know where our hard earned money is spent by this kothar. when i look around me I see, rolls royce, real esatate, private planes , lavish food and fakhir najwa.
2. Secondly we do not want kothar and specially jamaat secretaries and ignorant jamaat members enforcing their own whims and fancies on the guillable in the name of moula ne khushi and bombarding the mumineen with different drummed up fatwas of their own and collecting huge sums of money for their own selfish interest.



Maqbool
Posts: 844
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#7

Unread post by Maqbool » Mon Mar 28, 2016 12:44 pm

Rasululah had even long hair. Why Altaf is silent on this?

I suspect our resident virus is back with one more name.



SBM
Posts: 6181
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

#8

Unread post by SBM » Mon Mar 28, 2016 1:04 pm

I love when people quote Sunnah of the Prophet ad lib...while sitting in air condition room using Computer (none of them were part of Sunnah of the Prophet or the previous Duaats)




anajmi
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#10

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:22 pm

Whenever someone wants to argue against the Sunnah of the prophet (saw) they give an example of an automobile. It is a weird example. The question that should be asked is not that the prophet (saw) never used an automobile so we shouldn't use it either, but whether the prophet (saw) would've used an automobile if one had been available at that time. The answer is "Of course YES". Same is the case for an air conditioned room or a computer. If either had been available, why wouldn't the prophet (saw) use it? The thing to consider is that if someone came to his house asking for his AC, the prophet (saw) would gladly give it to him. So for those over here who have common sense, try not to give these examples when arguing against the sunnah of the prophet (saw).

As far as the beard is concerned, the prophet (saw) had a beard and fortunately, the men of today are still capable of growing a beard. They haven't fully become feminine yet. If you don't want to grow a beard, then don't grow it. But please do not argue against the Sunnah of the prophet (saw). Just be man enough to say that I do not want to grow a beard. Simple. I know many people in the masjid who won't miss a single prayer but are clean shaven.

If the prophet (saw) grew a beard simply because he didn't have a razor then he wouldn't have advised us to trim the mustache and grow the beard cause there would be no way to trim a mustache either. The command is to "grow the beard" which means it was possible even back then to clean it off!!



canadian
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#11

Unread post by canadian » Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:41 pm

So-called Muslims who are intolerant will always end their argument by saying that it is the Sunnah of the prophet. They will not talk about what is fardh. And if you don't keep a beard, they will indirectly insult you to be feminine. End of argument.



think
Posts: 1800
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:15 am

#12

Unread post by think » Mon Mar 28, 2016 7:21 pm

just f.y.i. everyone in jannat is young and handsome and are clean shaven. The women are also young and beautiful. They do not wear riddas or burkas.



anajmi
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#13

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Mar 28, 2016 8:02 pm

"Intolerance" is nothing more than a buzzword these days. My mon was intolerant when she wouldnt let me smoke when I was a teenager. My father was intolerant when he forced me to go to school everyday. Grow up guys. Dont hide your personal selfishness as intolerance of others. I dont give a shit whether you grow a beard or not. But do not question the sunnah of the prophet (saw).



anajmi
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#14

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Mar 28, 2016 8:04 pm

One will go to jannah if he obeys Allah and his prophet (saw). In jannah you will get wine to drink but here wine is haram. In jannah there is no fasting and no salah but here it is a major sin to not pray or to not fast without just cause.



canadian
Posts: 299
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:57 pm

#15

Unread post by canadian » Mon Mar 28, 2016 8:44 pm

^ ^ ^
anajmi:
I give up. As I told the other gentleman, I agree to disagree. Unfortunately the more you will write the more I shall think that you are an intolerant, nasty, rude person! Peace. :(



anajmi
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#16

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Mar 28, 2016 8:59 pm

Well, the kuffar of Mecca said the same thing to the prophet (saw) when he refused to compromise. For them he was also an intolerant, nasty, rude person. So getting called names by people for supporting the sunnah of the prophet (saw) is actually going to be a big deal for me on the day of Judgment. Thanks and keep em coming.



bohrabhai
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#17

Unread post by bohrabhai » Mon Mar 28, 2016 10:16 pm

Admin please remove or move this irrelevant discussion regarding beard and rida. This is not relevant to this thread



Wajid
Posts: 87
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:52 pm

#18

Unread post by Wajid » Tue Mar 29, 2016 10:16 am

anajmi wrote:One will go to jannah if he obeys Allah and his prophet (saw). In jannah you will get wine to drink but here wine is haram. In jannah there is no fasting and no salah but here it is a major sin to not pray or to not fast without just cause.
Salam Anajmi bhai,
No doubt on your statement. One cannot be a Muslim if he disputes the below ayah ...

An-Nisa (The Women) - 4:59
... يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ أَطِيعُواْ اللّهَ وَأَطِيعُواْ الرَّسُولَ وَأُوْلِي الأَمْرِ مِنكُمْ
O you who have attained to faith! Pay heed unto God, and pay heed unto the Apostle and unto those from among you who have been entrusted with authority ...

However, I invite you to please reflect on the situation of Jannah...
If Allah forbids something for his bandah here on Earth, how can he promise the same thing for him in Jannah? For a rational mind, this simply does not make sense. For the soul, where does the bodily pleasure and comfort matter...
Another paradigm, a saintly person renounces the comfort in this world, never caring for it in this world - with a sole intention of seeking pleasure of Allah. How is it possible that he strives for the same in the after world ?

Try to read into the metaphor expressed in the Quranic verses to feel the depth of the ayah. Or else, it is like being content with eating the skin (chilka) of the fruits while missing out the essence.

Fi AmanIllah



think
Posts: 1800
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:15 am

#19

Unread post by think » Tue Mar 29, 2016 10:58 am

think what people did to be in jannah. why are they in jannah. why are christians, hindus shikhs and muslims in jannah
the answer is in the air. Look around you what todays long bearded ignorant mullahs who cannot even pass a matric exam are leading hoardes of innoscent .



anajmi
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#20

Unread post by anajmi » Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:22 pm

Bro Wajid, i would appreciate it if you would provide the in depth analysis of the ayah.

Fasting and salaah is mandatory over here but is not needed in jannah. Gold and silk is prohibited for men here but it is allowed in jannah.

No doubt you should go deep into ayahs but try to understand the obvious first.

By the way, the ayah that you posted is not the full ayah. How can you go deep into an ayah if you wont even post the full ayah? And yes, this ayah has been used to deceive the bohras and the shias in general precisely because only a part of it is quoted and the bohras have never cared enough to go deep into an ayah.

think,

Not sure what you were thinking before that post.



Wajid
Posts: 87
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#21

Unread post by Wajid » Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:26 pm

anajmi wrote:Bro Wajid, i would appreciate it if you would provide the in depth analysis of the ayah.
Salaams Anajmi bhai,
The complete ayah for your reference. So be it clear, I have quoted the ayah with the reference number and no intention to neglect half of the ayah.

An-Nisa (The Women) - 4:59
يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ أَطِيعُواْ اللّهَ وَأَطِيعُواْ الرَّسُولَ وَأُوْلِي الأَمْرِ مِنكُمْ فَإِن تَنَازَعْتُمْ فِي شَيْءٍ فَرُدُّوهُ إِلَى اللّهِ وَالرَّسُولِ إِن كُنتُمْ تُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الآخِرِ ذَلِكَ خَيْرٌ وَأَحْسَنُ تَأْوِيلاً (4:59)
O you who have attained to faith! Pay heed unto God, and pay heed unto the Apostle and unto those from among you who have been entrusted with authority; and if you are at variance over any matter, refer it unto God and the Apostle, if you [truly] believe in God and the Last Day. This is the best [for you], and best in the end.

Now my goal was not to enter into the debate over this ayah. But if you reflect upon it, a mumin is required to obey Allah, his Rasool and the one entrusted with authority.
Now, who can be the one entrusted with authority? Surely not the government authorities of the so called Un-Islamic states. It is clear that the reference is to the Imaams from the Ahle Bait of the Prophet (saw).

There is another clear reference to the the Ahle Bait in the Quran. Rasool Allah is referenced as "Zikr" in the Quran. And then there is an ayah "fasalou ahle zikr" (somewhere in Surah Al Imraan or Baqarah) I will have to search for the ayah, if you want.

Coming to the metaphorical references in the Quran, if you only consider the literal meaning, you will lead yourself to the extremism in one form or another. The Quran calls us to maintain "siraat al Mustaqeem" Middle & Balanced path.
If not, you will talk about the physical existence of Allah's hand and face (yadullah and wajhillah etc) as referenced in the Quran.

My friend, our aquedah and beliefs are poles apart. Our thoughts will never converge so better we do not create strain in our discussion.
And please do not consider that all bohras are deceived idiots and none study the matter in depth...

Fi AmanIllah



anajmi
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#22

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:51 pm

So, coming to the second part of the ayah. It clearly states that if you are at a variance in any matter refer to Allah and his prophet (saw). The person in authority is not given carte blanche. In case of a variance, you have to refer to Allah and his prophet. The person in authority is not to be considered if there is a variance. The final word belongs to Allah and his prophet (saw). The person in authority is in authority only as long as he is following Allah and his prophet (saw)!!

Thank you for posting the full ayah.

And then instead of posting the in depth analysis of some other ayah that you were referencing you are now jumping to the hands and face of Allah. Besides, why do you believe that Allah cannot have hands or a face? The Quran talks about his hands and face. Who are you to think he cannot or does not for whatever reasons have hands or a face? If you say the Quran is talking metaphorically, then where is your proof? Here, we are at a variance, And since the full ayah that you quoted above instructs us to refer to Allah and his prophet (saw) in case of a variance, can you show me from the Quran or the Sunnah of the prophet (saw) that Allah does not have hands or a face?



Wajid
Posts: 87
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#23

Unread post by Wajid » Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:16 pm

anajmi wrote:So, coming to the second part of the ayah. It clearly states that if you are at a variance in any matter refer to Allah and his prophet (saw)...

... can you show me from the Quran or the Sunnah of the prophet (saw) that Allah does not have hands or a face?
Bhai mere,

Correct - The Quran calls us to refer the matter personally to Allah and his prophet (saw). The prophet (saw) died 14 centuries ago. So according to this ayah, with its literal meaning, we are stuck. Quran being a timeless message is binding us into the limitations of time here. Either Allah is telling us to go to somebody who is not existing or there is somebody who is entrusted with authority who should be approached ... you to decide.

The in depth analysis, is clear, you refer to the person entrusted with authority. You are free to believe who that person is. For me, it is clear and you know where my loyalties lies in this matter...

There are many in this world who have good imagination of designing hands and faces of deities. If you believe that Allah has a face and hands in literal sense, then I believe that we should stop our discussion.

Fi AmanIllah



anajmi
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Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

#24

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:50 pm

So according to this ayah, with its literal meaning, we are stuck.
No. We are not stuck. You might be but we are not. The Sunnah of the prophet has been preserved very well. Besides, Allah could've easily added person with authority in the second part as well, but in His infinite wisdom, He did not. Remember your Imam is not here either and we have multiple claimants to the throne of the person of authority!! You might believe in one particular claimant but that is simply your personal preference. There is nothing you can provide as proof from the Quran or the Sunnah to justify this claim. You have no right to claim the others as being wrong if they have chosen a different person of authority. Because as per the Quran, if there is a variance you have to refer to Allah and his prophet (saw).

I don't believe anything because of what others are doing. I believe in only that which Allah has revealed in the Quran. How do you know with certainty that Allah does not have hands or a face? Have you seen him? How do you know this ayah is metaphorical? Who told you? Based upon what? Whoever told you that this ayah is metaphorical, has he seen Allah?

If he hasnt seen Allah then why did he conclude that the hands and face are metaphorical? According to you that is because people might create an idol of Allah. You think this guy is smarter than Allah? Besides, who are the people who actually created an ilahul ardh?



qutub_mamajiwala
Posts: 995
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:17 am

#25

Unread post by qutub_mamajiwala » Thu Mar 31, 2016 12:22 pm

anajmi wrote:Whenever someone wants to argue against the Sunnah of the prophet (saw) they give an example of an automobile. It is a weird example. The question that should be asked is not that the prophet (saw) never used an automobile so we shouldn't use it either, but whether the prophet (saw) would've used an automobile if one had been available at that time. The answer is "Of course YES". Same is the case for an air conditioned room or a computer. If either had been available, why wouldn't the prophet (saw) use it? The thing to consider is that if someone came to his house asking for his AC, the prophet (saw) would gladly give it to him. So for those over here who have common sense, try not to give these examples when arguing against the sunnah of the prophet (saw).

As far as the beard is concerned, the prophet (saw) had a beard and fortunately, the men of today are still capable of growing a beard. They haven't fully become feminine yet. If you don't want to grow a beard, then don't grow it. But please do not argue against the Sunnah of the prophet (saw). Just be man enough to say that I do not want to grow a beard. Simple. I know many people in the masjid who won't miss a single prayer but are clean shaven.

If the prophet (saw) grew a beard simply because he didn't have a razor then he wouldn't have advised us to trim the mustache and grow the beard cause there would be no way to trim a mustache either. The command is to "grow the beard" which means it was possible even back then to clean it off!!
yes ur right---if motor would be there, he would have and even lived in ac ---no problem with that.
further arguing it also means that if motor would be there, means gun would also be there as they both more or less came at same time.
by that it means there would no war with bows and arrows--no problem with that also.
with motor there would be motorable road also and housing like today for aircondition.
what it acutally means is what would prophet have done if he would have been present in our age?

would he have shroud women, grown beard, made sex with non-muslim halaal?



qutub_mamajiwala
Posts: 995
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:17 am

#26

Unread post by qutub_mamajiwala » Thu Mar 31, 2016 12:33 pm

anajmi wrote:
So according to this ayah, with its literal meaning, we are stuck.
No. We are not stuck. You might be but we are not. The Sunnah of the prophet has been preserved very well. Besides, Allah could've easily added person with authority in the second part as well, but in His infinite wisdom, ?
how do u know it is well preserved? who told u? sahih muslim and bukahri who themselves came centuries after?
many things happend in that two centuries and even after that.
allah has taken gurantee only of quran and not of hadith.

the ayah can be interpretated in this way also.
the person in authority means the person who is knowledgable and u trust him regarding the problem at hand.
like if ur having some medical problem, u should first find doctor u trust, and then follow him.
dont diagnose urself and take ur own medicine.
and the second part going back to allah and prophet can be meant like follow doctor but if u have confusion like suppose he prescribes some haram thing like alcohol as a medicine, then u should go back to what prophet and allah said and behave accordingly.



anajmi
Posts: 13402
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#27

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Mar 31, 2016 12:43 pm

Thank you for that explanation. So we agree that the person in authority is not the Imam, but it could be a doctor that is prescribing medicine or it could be someone else who is teaching you how to pray or how to fast. And you are right, we should be able to figure out if the doctor / leader / teacher / Imam /Dai is feeding us haraam alcohol or not.