A proud Muslim Man.......

Given modern distractions, the need to understand Islam better has never been more urgent. Through this forum we can share ideas and hopefully promote the true spirit of Islam which calls for peace, justice, tolerance, inclusiveness and diversity.
turbocanuck
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A proud Muslim Man.......

#1

Unread post by turbocanuck » Thu Aug 07, 2008 5:31 pm

A very Proud Moment.........Indeed

he was feeling the breeze when arrested

Rashid was found sitting in his driveway smoking a cigarette when cops arrested him. BINDAS!!

http://www.nypost.com/seven/08062008/ne ... 123236.htm

"If any woman in the family in any way does something that dishonors the family, the whole family is dishonored, they are the laughingstock of the whole community, because they 'don't know how to control their women.'

Thai
Posts: 182
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Re: A proud Muslim Man.......

#2

Unread post by Thai » Wed Aug 13, 2008 2:33 am

Responsibility

When such things happen---I wonder about responsibilty. Ofcourse the one who commits a crime is totally responsible for his actions---but what about the community, the religious leaders or prayer leaders of the community, the scholars of faith? The women? what, if any, responsibility do the silent spectators of such crimes hold?

In Islam, there is a concept of "lesser Jihad"---the struggle for social justice. In the wake of such crimes---perpetrated in the name of religion or community---should not that community re-examine its values and struggle/strive/jihad for reform?

What does it say of our spirituality if we/community silently accept oppression, injustice and atrocity?

pardesi
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Re: A proud Muslim Man.......

#3

Unread post by pardesi » Wed Aug 13, 2008 5:05 am

Originally posted by Thai:
Responsibility
..........

What does it say of our spirituality if we/community silently accept oppression, injustice and atrocity?
Responsibility? What responsibility? On this website, in this very forum, we have morons who believe abusing womenfolks and people of different beliefs is the lesser Jihad. The greater one being strapping oneself and blowing up innocent people to attain salvation not to mention the 72 hoors. Not a single condemnation of this man from those is a perfect example.

Spirituality is foreign to most muslims. Believing or striving for spiritual advancement is an innovation for some and bidah according to most standards. 5 prayers is said to keep one away from bad deeds. This man obvioiusly committed the best deed of all.

anajmi
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Re: A proud Muslim Man.......

#4

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:29 pm

I condemn it.

IMMUSLIM
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Re: A proud Muslim Man.......

#5

Unread post by IMMUSLIM » Wed Aug 13, 2008 7:46 pm

Anyone who recites and reads Quran will condemn killing of innocent people no matter which school of thought they belong to.

Quran Says
"If a man kills a believer intentionally, his recompense is Hell, to abide therein (For ever): And the wrath and the curse of God are upon him, and a dreadful penalty is prepared for him." 4.093

With regards to Unbelivers

"God forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for God loveth those who are just."
60.008

Fatwa Banker
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Re: A proud Muslim Man.......

#6

Unread post by Fatwa Banker » Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:02 am

Originally posted by IMMUSLIM:
Anyone who recites and reads Quran will condemn killing of innocent people no matter which school of thought they belong to.
Condemnations ring hollow...Muslims are a passive lot scared to speak out against killing, but enraged by cartoons. Is Islam a religion of peace ? Facts prove otherwise, but majority of muslims are not aware or concerned about facts as they are written in Arabic and most don't speak this language foreign to them. What is certain is that societal norms of places Islam is exported to by this Arab religion, are desensitized to violence based on religion.

Petty theft of jewelry or cars however does enrage them and chopping off limbs are in order…..

Thai
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Re: A proud Muslim Man.......

#7

Unread post by Thai » Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:05 am

I am not sure the "voilent" protests against cartoons really represents Islam/peace. When I mentioned lesser Jihad---It was not my intention that such (cartoon)protests be an ideal example of it. I was thinking more in terms of the Islamic concept of "Ijtihad"---to strive, to make efforts to solve a problem--or---"an excercise of using intellectual faculties to comprehend new situations and find solutions to them"

Voicing condemnation is important. It is one way to create change, other ways are through the use of our intellectual faculties to persuade others that blind imitation of the custom of our forefathers is not Islam---in fact--blind faith is not Islam. Islam is about justice, compassion and mercy and using our intellects to have the right understanding/knowledge that leads to right intentions and right actions.

by educating ourselves so that we can educate/inform those around us so that they can then inform those around them---might be a lasting way of creating change as this might possibly have an impact on the next generations as well?

It is also very "doable"---in fact, I cannot think of any excuse to not do so.

Regarding spirituality---what use is religion without spirituality? Isn't our spiritual growth the whole and sole reason why we are here on earth? action without right intention is hollow. praying is great, but without the right intention or right understanding---it is nothing but action that is hollow and without benefit or meaning?

anajmi
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Re: A proud Muslim Man.......

#8

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:21 am

Muslims are a passive lot scared to speak out against killing
Not true. I for one strongly condemn the killing of innocent Iraqis by indiscrimate American bombings and the killing of innocent Palestinians by the Israelis from whatever platform is available to me. This board is one.

anajmi
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Re: A proud Muslim Man.......

#9

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:22 am

but enraged by cartoons.
There are morons in all kinds of societies. Remember how the Americans were enraged by Saddam's weapons of mass destruction. ;)

Muslim First
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Re: A proud Muslim Man.......

#10

Unread post by Muslim First » Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:32 am

Boston Globe 8/14/08

Need not focus solely on Muslim world
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/edito ... ?page=full
IT IS curious that Jeff Jacoby goes to all the trouble to dig up stories about honor killings in Muslim countries around the world, while thousands of women are murdered every year in our own country (" 'Honor' killing comes to the US," op ed, Aug. 10). All he has to do is look up "woman's body" in any news search site to discover horrible crimes that have been committed here on any given day by men who were well known to their female victims.

Perhaps he thinks that men in our gentle Judeo-Christian society have better reasons to kill women than do Muslims. Maybe he really doesn't care about the women at all and simply finds honor killings to be another useful tool in his ongoing crusade against Islam.

ALAN MARTIN
Methuen

Honor killings right here in this country
RE: " 'HONOR' killing comes to the US" (op ed, Aug. 10), surely Jeff Jacoby has not forgotten the murders of the Jewish and Christian, perhaps pagan, Muslim and Native American young people in the '60s who protested the violation of human and civil rights in the that era, not to mention the lynchings and other organized and/or idiosyncratic "honor" killings at the behest of the media and other zealots. Be they the victims of racial, religious, or ethnic minorities or the identified targets of ignorant, misinformed vigilantes, these killings have been happening here in the United States for a long time.

ROBERT F. MARCUS
West Newton

© Copyright 2008 Globe Newspaper Company.

anajmi
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Re: A proud Muslim Man.......

#11

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:54 pm

Maybe he really doesn't care about the women at all and simply finds honor killings to be another useful tool in his ongoing crusade against Islam.
Kind of like the Ismailis. We've seen how much respect they have for women right??

IMMUSLIM
Posts: 22
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Re: A proud Muslim Man.......

#12

Unread post by IMMUSLIM » Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:18 pm

Muslims are a passive lot scared to speak out against killing
Is Islam a religion of peace ? Facts prove otherwise

Are you implying that Muslims are not peace loving or Islam is not a peaceful religion or both.
Anybody belong to any school of thought can call oneself Muslim but do not practice restraint.
The question is are we practicing the religion in its true spirit? Those on this board who are calling Muslims scared lot or Islam a violent religion what is their participation in prevention of such acts? Or we all belong to that scared lots too, just shouting on the Internet.

If the answer is that if we all belong to that scared lot too, lets find a common ground between us first and lets try to understand each other. May be we can learn something from each other.

“Is Islam a religion of peace? Facts prove otherwise”

I would like to invite my brother to prove this statement by Quran

porus
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Re: A proud Muslim Man.......

#13

Unread post by porus » Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:47 pm

Islam is a religion of peace in the sense that 'peace of mind and peace in heart' is the object of the system called Islam.

This peace is achieved through 'complete surrender' to Allah in the manner most comfortable to you and in the manner in which you have been taught or learned to be comfortable.

Word Islam is a noun derived from the verb aslama, which means surrender. Its root are the letters seen, laam, meem. And the word salaam meaning peace is derved from the same root.

If you observe a Shia and a Sunni praying side by side, each engrossed in their contemplation of Allah, you will experience a beautiful moment. However, if you have evil in your heart, you will inject violence. Especially, if you are a bigot, you will judge the rightness of the ritual. This results in evil and violence in their character to manifest outwardly.

A word for goodness which the Prophet was fond of is 'tahseen' meaning enhancing beauty or beautifying. That is why he chose the names of Fatima's children with the same root, ha. seen, nun. That is also why he gave the name Muhsin, from the same root, to Fatima's unborn child.

What bigots lack is 'tahseen'. They turn everything into its opposite, ugliness. Their main component is arrogance, belief in the rightness of their own brain-washing.

That Islam is percieved as a religion of violence, the direct opposite of peace, is that a minority of bigots have manifested evil in their hearts in the world.

anajmi
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Re: A proud Muslim Man.......

#14

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Aug 15, 2008 12:06 am

I agree with everything that porus has to say. We should root out the people who claim that Allah is a femal with three horns and a baritone voice. These are the people who introduce divisions and innovations in the religion of Islam. If people were to simply follow Allah there would be no divisions, however, people follow other people and worship people instead of Allah. People start worshipping Hazrat Ali and spread their hatred for Hazrat Aisha, these are the dividers.

pardesi
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Re: A proud Muslim Man.......

#15

Unread post by pardesi » Fri Aug 15, 2008 12:56 am

Yet another attempt to throw the discussion off topic. We are talking about the current (mental/moral) state of the Ummah and who is responsible for that and who is best positioned to address the issues that face them and how best to educate them. The whole system of religious education, especially at the lower level (madrassas) is messed up and those people (so called alims) themselves are not qualified to so much as draw a fine line between good and evil let alone educate people. Their (not all) complete focus is on filling the minds of the young students with hatred towards the west and in the process overlook the fact that there are muslims (the silent majority) who do not agree with their teachings and a lot of them live in the west too.

Reference to Ali worship and hatred for Bibi Aisha is just a smoke screen. No one worships the person Ali and as far as hatred towards Aisha is concerned, wasn't she the one who hated Ali so much that she couldn't stand the sight of him and conspired and supported people who were against the Khilafat of Ali by first of all getting an army together to fight Ali in the battle of Jamal going totally against the command of Allah and later not speaking out against Muawiya. She did not even voice her disapproval against cursing of Ali after every Juma prayers as ordered by Muawiya and continued for 70 years by the Umayyads. Atleast I never heard of it. What people call hatred of Aisha by the Shias is what I call criticism of her actions and not hatred. Her resentment towards the house of Ali and the Ahle Bayt is well documented in the history.

Lets get back to the actual topic.

anajmi
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Re: A proud Muslim Man.......

#16

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:08 am

pardesi,

The worshippers of Ali are cowards too. Hazrat Ali was amongst the bravest of sahabas and a fearless leader and look at those that worship him!! They even deny worshipping him to save themselves from scrutiny and ridicule. Such is the state of their beliefs!!

pardesi
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Re: A proud Muslim Man.......

#17

Unread post by pardesi » Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:22 am

You have the right to voice your opinion as YOU understand it.

[Yusufali 23:54] But leave them in their confused ignorance for a time.

anajmi
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Re: A proud Muslim Man.......

#18

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:35 am

You have the right to voice your opinion as YOU understand it.
Why would I voice my opinion as somebody else's understanding? Wouldn't that make me a hypocrite? or an Ismaili?

pardesi
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Re: A proud Muslim Man.......

#19

Unread post by pardesi » Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:40 am

So do you have an opinion about the topic of discussion? Only a coward would hold back!

Thai
Posts: 182
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Re: A proud Muslim Man.......

#20

Unread post by Thai » Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:45 am

It is my understanding that "honor" killings are also part of the "tradition" of Sikh and Hindu communities. (western media did report on these before getting fixated on Islam) A 2007 ABC news article mentioned that homicide was the leading cause of death for pregnant women in the U.S.---pregnant women killed by boyfriends or husbands (among Top 3 causes of death)

Misogyny is a worldwide phenomenon regardless of religion or culture. Acts of misogyny are committed by men and by women on other women---such as Indian mother-in-law burning her daughter-in-law.

However, that is no excuse for it (misogyny) to be tolerated in Islam or by muslims. Protection of the weaker members of the community is a duty of every muslim person according to the Quran.

Maybe we should start by requiring a higher standard of our religious scholars, teachers, and prayer leaders?

Fatwa Banker
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Re: A proud Muslim Man.......

#21

Unread post by Fatwa Banker » Fri Aug 15, 2008 2:26 am

Thai,

You are diminishing the issue at hand. If you are to compare crimes, then no doubt free societies are off the scale compared to Saudi Arabia or North Korea. I am speaking if what is accepted vs. what is aggressively prosecuted which is dictated by societal norms and values (in democratic systems).
Originally posted by Thai:
Maybe we should start by requiring a higher standard of our religious scholars, teachers, and prayer leaders?
A higher standard ? Really ? Is there any standard for a religious scholar in Islam ? I would appreciate a checklist or some widely accepted standard.

Thai
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Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2005 4:01 am

Re: A proud Muslim Man.......

#22

Unread post by Thai » Fri Aug 15, 2008 2:35 am

standards----That is the problem right there---there are no standards. I know of a mosque where the prayer leader does not even speak the language of the community!

But how can a community implement standards when there are no candidates to fulfill those standards anyway? In some communities---they have to import prayer leaders because nobody in the community is capable of leading prayers?

Yet, are we not responsible for the state of affairs in some way? And what can we do to promote change?

anajmi
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Re: A proud Muslim Man.......

#23

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Aug 15, 2008 2:39 am

The quran is the only checklist for a muslim and the biggest hurdle for an enemy of Islam and muslims. People misinterpret everything. Saddam's weapons of mass destruction and his capability to launch then in 45 minutes has caused death and destruction beyond any "acceptable standards".

Bush

Saddam has weapons of mass destruction - Check
Saddam can launch them in 45 minutes - Check
Scare morons with a mushroom cloud in NY - Check

Thai
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Re: A proud Muslim Man.......

#24

Unread post by Thai » Fri Aug 15, 2008 3:07 am

Quran is checklist.

I can agree with that--I read an english translation because I don't understand the Arabic. The Quran has been translated into many languages so almost any muslim has access to the meaning. So how is it that some people can misinterpret it so badly that they end up thinking that "honor" killing is somehow condoned? Have we become so lazy, that we do not bother to understand our holy book? That it has become easier to simply believe what we want to believe rather than making the effort to educate ourselves?

anajmi
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Re: A proud Muslim Man.......

#25

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Aug 15, 2008 3:16 am

Well, it is laziness and convenience. For eg, it becomes difficult for some to pray 5 times a day, however they want to enter jannah despite their short coming, with full glory, so they've invented something called taawil which satisfies all their requirements. Rituals are no longer required and you can follow Islam as you wish since the quran now says whatever you wish it to say, thanks to Taawil and the Taawilers.

anajmi
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Re: A proud Muslim Man.......

#26

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Aug 15, 2008 3:18 am

so they've invented something called taawil
oops, let me rephrase before tripplehorn catches it,
so they've exploited something called taawil

Fatwa Banker
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Re: A proud Muslim Man.......

#27

Unread post by Fatwa Banker » Fri Aug 15, 2008 3:20 am

Originally posted by Thai:
standards----That is the problem right there---there are no standards. I know of a mosque where the prayer leader does not even speak the language of the community!

But how can a community implement standards when there are no candidates to fulfill those standards anyway? In some communities---they have to import prayer leaders because nobody in the community is capable of leading prayers?

Yet, are we not responsible for the state of affairs in some way? And what can we do to promote change?
Sounds like you are agreeing with me, it is the very problem I am illustrating. The end to the Iraq war or the injustice in Palestine will not solve the problem I am speaking of.

Muslim First
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Re: A proud Muslim Man.......

#28

Unread post by Muslim First » Fri Aug 15, 2008 12:37 pm

so they've exploited something called taawil


* Taawil ko chaara samaj ke sub Ghade churne lage.

* Acche acche reh gaye aur hum Ulloo-ke-Patthe 'Shaik-ul-Taawil' bun gaye

anajmi
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Re: A proud Muslim Man.......

#29

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Aug 15, 2008 12:47 pm

The end to the Iraq war or the injustice in Palestine will not solve the problem I am speaking of.
Yeah, keep telling yourself that. Looks like you and Bush went to the same class.

Thai
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Re: A proud Muslim Man.......

#30

Unread post by Thai » Sat Aug 16, 2008 6:04 am

Iraq and Palestine are completely different issues to the problems within communities. There are issues of Gender, Generation, and Knowledge transfer that are problematic within muslim communities. The question is not what to do about Iraq or Palestine or...whatever, It is about how to practice Islam in the spirit in which it was intended--the Quran.