God and Religion

Given modern distractions, the need to understand Islam better has never been more urgent. Through this forum we can share ideas and hopefully promote the true spirit of Islam which calls for peace, justice, tolerance, inclusiveness and diversity.
like_minded
Posts: 1260
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:01 am

God and Religion

#1

Unread post by like_minded » Tue Apr 08, 2008 4:45 am

Why does one believe in God? Because it gives satisfaction, consolation, hope and one says it gives significance to life.

But what is meant by God? Most people think of God as an all-powerful entity, which God clearly is not. God can really mean only the source, the one reality. Neither the believer nor the non-believer will find God for the simple reason that Reality is the unknown. And one's belief or non-belief in the unknown is nothing more than a self-projection.

Yet, the people who say they believe in God have destroyed a good part of the world and the world is in chaos.

The fundamental human problem is to understand the misery and confusion that exist within ourselves and, thus, in the world. Organised group thought-the basis of religion- being merely repetitive, cannot provide the solution.

The most important thing is to find clarity within ourselves. The clarity is not the outcome of mere cultivation of the intellect. Nor can it be conformity to pattern, however noble. The clarity can come about only through right thinking, and right thinking comes only with self-knowledge. Without self-knowledge, without understanding oneself, there is no basis for thought, for truth.

All organised beliefs are really based on seperation, though they may preach brotherhood. It is only through creative understanding of ourselves that we can hope to have peace and harmony.

Throughout history, various prescriptions have been given on how to keep in touch with God while living one's life. Each one of them is based on what a seeker is supposed to do, and has, therefore ended in frustration. Or, there is the mistaken impression that, by following a particular prescription, one is indeed in constant touch with God.

What this produces, if not frustration, is pride in one's achievement. This is worse, because, deep down, the individual knows that he is not in constant touch with God, and that he is deceiving himself.

Danish
Posts: 1106
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2003 5:01 am

Re: God and Religion

#2

Unread post by Danish » Tue Apr 08, 2008 5:36 am

A MUST FOR ALL TO WATCH/READ

The God Delusion (the root of all evil): http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 5310561251

The selfish gene

like_minded
Posts: 1260
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:01 am

Re: God and Religion

#3

Unread post by like_minded » Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:16 am

Bro Danish..

A superb clip I must say.... A MUST WATCH

Gulf
Posts: 674
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:01 am

Re: God and Religion

#4

Unread post by Gulf » Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:39 am

Originally posted by like_minded:
Bro Danish..

A superb clip I must say.... A MUST WATCH
he/she is your avatar

Danish
Posts: 1106
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2003 5:01 am

Re: God and Religion

#5

Unread post by Danish » Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:24 pm

Originally posted by like_minded:
Bro Danish..

A superb clip I must say.... A MUST WATCH
Yes it certainly is. It emulsifies the minds and agitates the blood of religionists and most certainly the Muslims. Check this fascinating video by an ex-Muslim: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=N8TyTzKauuA

saif
Posts: 167
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2001 5:01 am

Re: God and Religion

#6

Unread post by saif » Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:09 am

Admin:

If one refers to the various missives he has been spouting especially his unsupported (except for the self-serving blogs) vitriolics against the Prophet, the religion of of Islam etc., it appears that Danish is NOT a Muslim but an anti-Muslim.

Please consider barring these types blasphemous and sacriligeous material from this site. Thanks

seeker110
Posts: 1726
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:01 am

Re: God and Religion

#7

Unread post by seeker110 » Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:34 am

There is freedom of thought and speech,if you supress a single thought,you have supreesed all.If it bothers someone of what somebody thinks,only means that they conform to one way of thinking and what others feel or think should not be tolerated.We are all biggots.

marabu
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2003 5:01 am

Re: God and Religion

#8

Unread post by marabu » Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:31 am

this board is for free speech and thoughts and i agree with seeker and his comments.If we talk about religion then one must suspend the critical faculity to accept that what religion you were born is the best way to be the ONE. If one brings in analytical ideas then one becomes outsider. It is very true in TAHERI boharism as well as many others . Hence i dis agree with Safiuddin

marabu
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2003 5:01 am

Re: God and Religion

#9

Unread post by marabu » Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:58 am

my apologies it is saif not Safiudeen

saif
Posts: 167
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2001 5:01 am

Re: God and Religion

#10

Unread post by saif » Wed Apr 09, 2008 4:38 am

seeker 110/marabu:

Yes, freedom of thought and speech with responsibility and intelligence - NOT with stupidity and wilful blindness and NOT slavishly following the Islamophobs such as those authors of the Danish cartoons on the Prophet, producer of FITNA and writers like Rushdie, Hersi, and Irshad Manji.

Danish
Posts: 1106
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2003 5:01 am

Re: God and Religion

#11

Unread post by Danish » Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:19 am

Saif (and others), you call my criticisms to your belief system blasphemous and sacrileges because you don't possess the audacity and diligence to stand up, defend and discuss them and nor do you have the courage to face truth. This usually happens when people are afraid to get exposed with embarrassment and they get all riled up. Some here even go a step further to manipulate my words and bring them against me and when confronted they run away. Now you want to remove them from this site because you can't tolerate the face of truth, justice and reality. Is this the kind of lives you want yourselves, your family members and your children to live in?

For over 30 years, I’ve been fed all sorts of lies and religious jargons time and time again that made me an emotional monster. After much reading, studying, building relationships, traveling and just pondering nature and reflecting everything around me, I moved from one phase to another and then finally paved in and said enough is enough and struggled hard to find my way out of this religious damnation. That’s right, religion is a total farce; a nightmare.

Just the thought of hell and this idiotic notion of this supreme man-made deity and his holy books literally weaken ones mind from rational thought and reason because they live their lives in fear brought about by once-upon-a-time prophets and messengers of gods and goddesses followed by the twisted versions of unscrupulous mullahs and priests who are the real thugs of our generation in contempt of natural civility and justice.

It is time to wake up and think for yourselves. Live your lives for yours and humanity’s sake, not for religious sake. Give your true respect and pay your salaams to the needy directly in good intentions. I can very well understand your frustrations and your perspectives because I too was born and raised into it. Sure, they are all kinds of obstacles bedridden in our paths but one must struggle to overcome them. The biggest and most dangerous obstacle that I got myself ridden from was remaining a Slave of Religion. Thank goodness!

Danish
Posts: 1106
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2003 5:01 am

Re: God and Religion

#12

Unread post by Danish » Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:57 am

By the way, if you have access to CNN news media, check out the latest on the polygamist issue, a showdown in Texas. It is being aired right now as I write. You can witness what a messenger of God can do and the threat of hell and eternal damnation upon the minds of innocent people (children, women and adults). It is truely heart throbbing and terrifying. It is no different than what holy books preach.

like_minded
Posts: 1260
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:01 am

Re: God and Religion

#13

Unread post by like_minded » Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:59 am

Bro Danish

Religious conditioning is such that in the course of time, tolerance escapes in thin air. An individual finds it very hard to accept the flaw in this whole thing, because that'd hurt his egoistic, conditioned mind.

Alislam
Posts: 234
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 5:01 am

Re: God and Religion

#14

Unread post by Alislam » Wed Apr 09, 2008 6:11 am

This site offers freedom to even maniacs.

I remember, the Hollywood actors and social elites of America (so called 'Free thinking & Humanist soceity) careers was destroyed because they spoke against the War.

I too agree that everyone, including maniacs can be allowed to speak freely.

Alislam
Posts: 234
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 5:01 am

Re: God and Religion

#15

Unread post by Alislam » Wed Apr 09, 2008 6:21 am

Danish,

The polygamy episode being shown on the CNN involves a Christian.

Islam does not allow such kind of misuse of young children in the name of polygamy.

Polygamy allowed in Islam has many caveats and you should understand that difference.

Google again and see the statistics of your free thinking societies on the illegal polygamous cases.

They don't have a limit and thank God, muslims atleast have a limit.

Polygamy in Islam comes with duties and responsibilities and a status in society, whereas it is only for lust in your free societies.

like_minded
Posts: 1260
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:01 am

Re: God and Religion

#16

Unread post by like_minded » Wed Apr 09, 2008 6:28 am

Originally posted by Alislam:
This site offers freedom to even maniacs.

I remember, the Hollywood actors and social elites of America (so called 'Free thinking & Humanist soceity) careers was destroyed because they spoke against the War.

I too agree that everyone, including maniacs can be allowed to speak freely.
Bro ALislam

As long as you identify yourself with the religion you belong, You'd come up with much fancy words to bring down someone who doesn't need any kind of self seeking identification.

Religions and beliefs in my view is anti-god, and one needs to think of the box to understand this fact, I assure you, its not easy but not impossible. The first step towards it, is the deconditioning of mind.

like_minded
Posts: 1260
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:01 am

Re: God and Religion

#17

Unread post by like_minded » Wed Apr 09, 2008 6:48 am

Mind lives in illusion, It has illusions about everything, about people, nations, religion and God. The root meaning of illusion is to play, to play with something that is not actual, The actual is what is happening, what is actually taking place, whether it is called good, bad or indifferent. When one is incapable of facing what is actually taking place in oneself, then to escape from that is to create illusion.

Alislam
Posts: 234
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 5:01 am

Re: God and Religion

#18

Unread post by Alislam » Wed Apr 09, 2008 6:58 am

like-minded,

It is ok for free thinkers like Danish and others to use the words "Zombies, Brainwashed, Fanatics, intolerant etc and when they get back in the same coin, they do not like.

Can you tell me why it should be one-sided ??

like_minded
Posts: 1260
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:01 am

Re: God and Religion

#19

Unread post by like_minded » Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:07 am

Religion offers a path which leads to God,and as we know God is unknown, So a path can lead only to that which is known and not the unknown (God) because unknown is immeasurable.

Those of us who are commited to paths have vested mental, emotional and physical interests.. and that is why we find it extremely difficult to become mature.. How can we abandon that to which we have clung since many years?

Alislam
Posts: 234
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 5:01 am

Re: God and Religion

#20

Unread post by Alislam » Wed Apr 09, 2008 8:30 am

All these are vague logics and in reality "Free thinking & Humanist (so called) are the ones who are highly intolerant and do everything opposite (to their sweet talk) in order to gain power.

History is full of such non-religious people who have brought enough destruction to the world.

like_minded
Posts: 1260
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:01 am

Re: God and Religion

#21

Unread post by like_minded » Wed Apr 09, 2008 8:56 am

Bro Alislam

Thoughts seek security, permanancy is sought in anything.. One seeks security in religion, rituals, dogma and all that.. Logically if one is aware, it is just a product of thought, and yet thought clings to it.

It is part of our conditioning from childhood to believe in religion, prophet, holy books, rituals, for orthodox bohras it is the dais and imam in purda etc.. well, thought finds security in it, but when you look into it directly, there is absolutely no security there, because its just an idea, which thought has put together.

So, when thought clings to it, it is the very essence of neuroticism, and yet you cling to it. Do you see the absurdity of this?

feelgud
Posts: 725
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2006 5:01 am

Re: God and Religion

#22

Unread post by feelgud » Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:04 am

Questions and answers:

" ... Islam has probably a billion and a half adherents today. It exists. And it is probably the most compelling spiritual and moral force on earth today. People hate to hear that. [3]"

Ramsey Clark, former US Attorney General

http://islamic.org.uk/trickys.html

Alislam
Posts: 234
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 5:01 am

Re: God and Religion

#23

Unread post by Alislam » Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:40 am

It is part of our conditioning from childhood to believe in religion, prophet, holy books, rituals, for orthodox bohras it is the dais and imam in purda etc.. well, thought finds security in it, but when you look into it directly, there is absolutely no security there, because its just an idea, which thought has put together.

--- By not beleiving, you are still beleiving that what others are beleiving is not correct.

You are conditioned to your belief system that religion is not the path to achieve your "superficial intelligence".

Every thought process of yours revolves around these theories and everything else will sound illogical to you.

So, what makes your thought process superior than others ?? The very purpose of charging others speaks of your superiority complex.

like_minded
Posts: 1260
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:01 am

Re: God and Religion

#24

Unread post by like_minded » Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:55 am

Originally posted by Alislam:
It is part of our conditioning from childhood to believe in religion, prophet, holy books, rituals, for orthodox bohras it is the dais and imam in purda etc.. well, thought finds security in it, but when you look into it directly, there is absolutely no security there, because its just an idea, which thought has put together.

--- By not beleiving, you are still beleiving that what others are beleiving is not correct.

You are conditioned to your belief system that religion is not the path to achieve your "superficial intelligence".

Every thought process of yours revolves around these theories and everything else will sound illogical to you.

So, what makes your thought process superior than others ?? The very purpose of charging others speaks of your superiority complex.
We come together to talk things over amicably, exposing ourselves inwardly, because this offers an opportunity to uncover and discover and go beyond. I am not trying to lay down a law, a dogma, a belief, a way.

Please understand what I am trying to say.

Alislam
Posts: 234
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 5:01 am

Re: God and Religion

#25

Unread post by Alislam » Wed Apr 09, 2008 10:38 am

I am not trying to lay down a law, a dogma, a belief, a way.

--- Every society in this world whether religious, free thinking, communist or any other have laid down a law, a way for administering social, civil, criminal aspects of their society.

The world would be a chaos if not governed by "rules and regulations".

Is there any society which is devoid of written rules and regulations and a constitution ??

like_minded
Posts: 1260
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:01 am

Re: God and Religion

#26

Unread post by like_minded » Wed Apr 09, 2008 10:49 am

Bro Alislam

You have completely lost me

Alislam
Posts: 234
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 5:01 am

Re: God and Religion

#27

Unread post by Alislam » Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:05 am

You have completely lost me

-- If you want we can connect, as both are from Bangalore ;)

Danish
Posts: 1106
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2003 5:01 am

Re: God and Religion

#28

Unread post by Danish » Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:30 pm

Originally posted by Alislam:
The polygamy episode being shown on the CNN involves a Christian.
Yes I've seen enough of it all. Warren Jeffs claimed to be the prophet of God and his high officials as messengers who subjected mostly young beautiful girls (and adults alike) into polygamy. But it is a small group comprising of mormon cult.
Islam does not allow such kind of misuse of young children in the name of polygamy.

Polygamy allowed in Islam has many caveats and you should understand that difference.
You are gravely mistaken. Not only Islam allows polygamy but also marrying adolescents at any age. This example is explicit in the footsteps of Muhammad and as per shariah. Besides, the treatment of women is Islam is pitiful and dreadful. Once divorced, they are looked upon as "trash bags" with not much hope left for them. If involved in secret rendezvous, they are either killed or maliciously beaten up with the usual fling of the families involved. In some cases they are even sold away and yet in other cases given as gifts to strangers they have never met or forced into marriages against their wishes. True that western societies has its own moral meltdowns, but given the harsh nature of Islam and its shariah laws, the women are often subdued by their elders and disallowed from marrying into other cults within Islam, let alone other non-Muslim casts. If they elope, then calamities and shame haunts them.
They don't have a limit and thank God, muslims atleast have a limit.

Polygamy in Islam comes with duties and responsibilities and a status in society, whereas it is only for lust in your free societies.
It is wishfully said than done by the apologists. In countries like Saudi Arabia (the germ of Islam), men are quick to marry many and are just as quick to divorce and marry others, keeping their counts intact. Polygamy is for sex and producing babies in Islam and later throw the old cows out and make room for new calfs. Polygamy is banned in America and has severe consequences as you've already witnessed on CNN.

Muhammad allowed polygamy (multiple marriages), mutah (temporary marriages), sex with captives as booties (concubines) and forced them into submissions, sex/marriages with young girls, marrying cousins and adopted children and so forth in the name of his god for his own pleasures. It is also mentioned in your authentic hadiths that on one occasion Muhammad had one of his followers killed just to lay his hands on the wife yet on another occasion he broke the marriage of one of his faithful so that he could have his wife, just because they were very beautiful and could not resist his temptations. Such were Allah's commands and those were the days of ignorance.

Now don't come barging with your venoms at me for I am only presenting what your brothers in faith have written down. Go study your Tabari, Rushd, Tirmidhi, Bukhari, Malik, Saleh, Dawood and the rest of your sahih holy books. When anything bad about Muhammad is mentioned in any of the ahadees, they all become nonsense and when criticisms are made against Quran, they suddenly become metaphorical or misunderstood and people criticizing them become infidels, evil, threatened and must be put to death.

Here are just a few question out of the many if you could answer them:
1. What were the ages of Muhammad and Aisha when they got married?
2. How many wives did Muhammad have altogether throughout his lifetime?
3. Why did Muhammad stop others from marrying his divorced wives after using them and what were the reasons for divorcing them?
4. What was the real reason for marrying Khadija, the rich and famous business women who was already divorced twice before and Muhammad was only half her age when he married her?

JC
Posts: 1624
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:01 am

Re: God and Religion

#29

Unread post by JC » Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:37 pm

It seems Danish has some valid points and questions. Will there be any answers??

Bro Danish,

I would highly appreciate your thoights on Abortion and Homosexuality vis-a-vis Islam and Others. It is well known that Islam and Muslims are totally againt these, though I feel, there should be some exceptions.

Aarif
Posts: 1426
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:01 am

Re: God and Religion

#30

Unread post by Aarif » Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:42 pm

There is freedom of thought and speech,if you supress a single thought,you have supreesed all
Seek Error,

Looks like you made an reference to a NULL pointer. There is a saying in English "With freedom comes Responsibility"

This lunatic Danish seems to have escaped straight out of mental asylum. Just imagine if all the lunatics from mental asylums all over the world are set free.. I am sure you want be writing this post then or will you???

People like Danish have nothing to do with humanity or god. For him/her there exists some super natural entity (of which he has no proof what so ever) who controls the balance of this universe. I think that intelligent entity is too busy controlling the universe and that is why it has set this lunatic free to spread all the venom and hatred he can...