God and Religion

Given modern distractions, the need to understand Islam better has never been more urgent. Through this forum we can share ideas and hopefully promote the true spirit of Islam which calls for peace, justice, tolerance, inclusiveness and diversity.
porus
Posts: 3594
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 5:01 am

Re: God and Religion

#91

Unread post by porus » Fri Apr 11, 2008 4:00 am

Correction:

I will most certainly not respond to your posts except rarely. You have nothing useful for me to consider.

like_minded
Posts: 1260
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:01 am

Re: God and Religion

#92

Unread post by like_minded » Fri Apr 11, 2008 4:41 am

LM,

I beg to differ on this. According to me the GRT prophets and saints knew the true meaning of life only because they knew the existence of god. It is god who had shown them the right path and meaning of their existence. It is not the other way around as you put it i.e. people started believing in god since it would add a meaning to their existence. The reason for my belief is that it is god who has created us as a part of the universe and not the other way round. Hence, believing in god is believing in the source of our creation. Which is quite logical in fact.
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Bro Areef

There were no prophets/saints, they were just ordinary people like us perhaps with a better understanding of their ownselves. It is we (the followers) who call them prophets/saints because we seek security in them.

If you say that God had shown them the right path and meaning of their existence, then why cant God show the same to us? Does God believe in discrimination or is he egoistic or vindictive?? To show the right path only to those who believe in HIM????

If believeing in God is a major criteria here, then He could have easily ensured that his creation do not go astray and stop believing in HIM??? Is that really hard for HIM?? For the creator, a super natural entity nothing could ever be that hard.

Religion and following has actually supressed the free flow of life in an individual.. making him fearful, greedy, non-tolerant, superstitious.. which is the root cause of misery in this world.

Bro Areef, dont be in a hurry with your response, instead ask some questions to your ownself and try getting the answers.

like_minded
Posts: 1260
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:01 am

Re: God and Religion

#93

Unread post by like_minded » Fri Apr 11, 2008 5:13 am

What "prophets"??? There's no such thing as prophets. It is all man-made and brainwashed into your heads.

Exactly!! and with rigorous conditioning.. keeping the ideals/image in mind.. the follower seeks to reach a point which in reality is not there at all. In the process the reality which is present is lost completely.

Alislam
Posts: 234
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 5:01 am

Re: God and Religion

#94

Unread post by Alislam » Fri Apr 11, 2008 6:41 am

What "prophets"??? There's no such thing as prophets. It is all man-made and brainwashed into your heads.

-- Majority of inhabitants of this world (Christians, Muslims, Jews and others) believe in Prophets and a selected few "Free thinkers" only have a problem.

like_minded
Posts: 1260
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:01 am

Re: God and Religion

#95

Unread post by like_minded » Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:05 am

Originally posted by Alislam:
What "prophets"??? There's no such thing as prophets. It is all man-made and brainwashed into your heads.

-- Majority of inhabitants of this world (Christians, Muslims, Jews and others) believe in Prophets and a selected few "Free thinkers" only have a problem.
No wonder the division among humans is ever expanding.. Has the majority ever tried to evaluate this situation?? and find a possible solution if there is?? I guess they are too lazy or perhaps do not want to leave the comfort zone (religion/beliefs and God)

Alislam
Posts: 234
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 5:01 am

Re: God and Religion

#96

Unread post by Alislam » Fri Apr 11, 2008 12:02 pm

No wonder the division among humans is ever expanding.. Has the majority ever tried to evaluate this situation?? and find a possible solution if there is?? I guess they are too lazy or perhaps do not want to leave the comfort zone (religion/beliefs and God)

--- There are wide differences and divisions even among the "Free thinking Nations".

There is a fight for supremacy and intellectuals alligned to different sides criticize and fight with each other.

The cold war between US and USSR is one such example (Religion is not at all involved).

There have been divisions among humans since the begining and continues to this date.

Admin
Posts: 662
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2000 5:01 am

Re: God and Religion

#97

Unread post by Admin » Fri Apr 11, 2008 12:19 pm

Danish,

We give you one last warning. If you continue with your profanities you'll leave us with no choice but to ban you. We hope you'll not force us to do that.

Above Average Bohra
Posts: 362
Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 4:01 am

Re: God and Religion

#98

Unread post by Above Average Bohra » Fri Apr 11, 2008 12:47 pm

porus,

You really think I took your dream about the three horned God seriously? You think everyone other than you on this board is stupid? I was going to keep bringing up the tripple horned God of yours, till you acknowledged you didn't see any such dream and when you said "You do not believe me? - shame on you", you were just being disingenous, as with a lot of other stuff that you say. Infact, I am going to keep bringing it up, no matter what.
My position is simply this. Nothing whatever can be said about God.
That is cause you are fool brainwashed by some chinese Lao only pretending to understand the quran, just like the hate monger Danish does.

Aarif
Posts: 1426
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:01 am

Re: God and Religion

#99

Unread post by Aarif » Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:38 pm

Br. LM,

I have been there where you are now. In fact at one point of time I use to argue with people that there is nothing super natural or god like in this universe. I use to tell them that if you assume that there are certain things beyond the understanding domain of human mind then everything is possible. So basically if you do not understand or you are unable to comprehand something it does not mean that it is super natural. However, in past few years I have gone through this self realization where I have realized from within that there is god. He is the one who has sent prophets. Prophets are messengers of god. I feel that human being is one of the most facinating creations of god. As this specie evolved god realized its needs and requirements. He then took the necessary steps to make them understand his presence. He did this through prophets. If every ordinary man can become a prophet then nobody will believe in god. Also, human being is a creature that can think. Hence, god gives you the option to choose what is right or wrong according to you. He has not programmed you as a robot so that you just carry out the instructions given by him. He wants you to recognize him and accept him as your creator. The prophets only acted as guides. Also, if you read history then the story of each prophet is extra ordinary. E.g. the birth of Jesus Christ. Noah's ark etc. These were events created by god to distiguish these people from ordinary people so that you understand his messenger and his message.

Even if you pause for a moment and think about this where did the first particle of the universe came from?? Who created it?? I have asked this questions to many professors and scholars that I have met. Nobody gave me a satisfactory answer from scientific point of view.

Humsafar
Posts: 2518
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: God and Religion

#100

Unread post by Humsafar » Fri Apr 11, 2008 3:55 pm

I resist not to respond but I'm a "thinking" being and cannot but use my god-given ability to question conventional thought.

What you just did was reduce the sublime to the ridiculous. You explained away the wonderful and awe inspiring mystery of life and universe in mythic, anthropomorphic, and I might add, pedestrian terms. All the ultimate questions do not have to resolve into god and his prophets. When you do that you do the ultimate violence to the intellect that your supposed god has blessed you with. When you do that you foreclose all other possibilities, all other narratives, all other ways of knowing and being and becoming.

Speaking of prophets, apart from Mohammed history is not sure if all the rest were even real. In any case, the point is that the prophets and their god are part of the judeo-christian-islamic narrative. There are other peoples in other cultures down the ages who have their own narratives and their own way of explaining away the world. Their story is as much true to them as yours is true to you.

What you call "self-realisation" is nothing but blind acceptance of conventional wisdom. To nit-pick, I'd just call that realisation. Self-realisation is something completely different.

Regarding humans being robots - actually they are exactly that notwithstanding their famous ability to think. And it is not thinking but "language" that sets them apart from other animals. We share more than 99% of our genes with the great apes. What is special about us is that we are bent upon destroying the very planet that made us possible - again, despite or rather because of our famous ability to think. Culture, morals, religion, art are all fine sentiments - the product of the neocortex - so long as we are well-fed, safe and secure. The moment our or our dear ones lives are threatened all those fine sentiments go out the window and we revert to our primordial animal mode. We are as much slaves to our genes as any other animal. And let's face it, we're only new to bing human - for only around 60,000 years which is just half a blink in geological time. It will take us a long long time to be really human. Until then I'll defer calling humans the crown jewel of god's creation.

Aarif
Posts: 1426
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:01 am

Re: God and Religion

#101

Unread post by Aarif » Fri Apr 11, 2008 5:15 pm

What you just did was reduce the sublime to the ridiculous.
Just by ridiculing my post you do not score any points. You need to come up with an intelligent counter argument for that. If that convinces me then you win..
We share more than 99% of our genes with the great apes.
After reading your post I will replace 99% with 100%. ;)
What is special about us is that we are bent upon destroying the very planet that made us possible
Every entity in the universe is destroyed and created at a certain point of time. Destruction is as important as Creation. According to Hindus Bhrama is the Creator and Shiva is the Destroyer. But both of them are gods and have equal importance... If this planet has to be destroyed at a particular point of time it will be destroyed. Earth was created and destroyed many a times before the human beings came into existence.. So why blame them? Also, it has nothing to do with their ability to think. It is like a cycle. Once the Creation cycle evolves and reaches its end it is disposed and a new cycle begins...