Why Islam is against having physical relationship with n

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Aarif
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Why Islam is against having physical relationship with n

#1

Unread post by Aarif » Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:12 pm

We all know that Islam is against having physical relationship with a non-mehram girl. My question is if you are in love with someone the physical part comes naturally. Is there any reason why Islam prohibits it? In fact if we observe closely we will find that the west does not believe in this concept. However, the east follows it very religiously. Even pre-marital sex is not allowed in the Hindus and many other religions in the east.

Some people posted articles earlier on this site saying that marriages were annulled when it was found that the girl was not a virgin before marraige. Is virginity so important and if so why it is so important???

What does the holy Quran say on the same???

PS: This topic is to have a healthy discussion and enhance knowledge so please stick to the topic.

Thanks in advance..

Danish
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Re: Why Islam is against having physical relationship with n

#2

Unread post by Danish » Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:05 am

There's no command whatsoever in the quran that prohibits marriages with non-mehrams and neither is there any commands to marry virgins only. I believe virginity is not a necessity of marriage.

porus
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Re: Why Islam is against having physical relationship with n

#3

Unread post by porus » Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:41 am

What is a 'non-mehram girl'?

Did you mean marriage 'Islam is not against having physical relationship with a mehram girl?

porus
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Re: Why Islam is against having physical relationship with n

#4

Unread post by porus » Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:43 am

Correction:

What is a 'non-mehram girl'?

Did you mean 'Islam is not against having physical relationship with a mehram girl?

porus
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Re: Why Islam is against having physical relationship with n

#5

Unread post by porus » Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:56 am

The word is 'mahram'. It means "unmarriageable due to the girl being a close relative of the potential groom" This is the Muslim fiqh, a law of consanguinity and is derived from Quran, Surat an-Nisaa (4:22-25).

As far as virginity before marriage is concerned, all the wives of the Prophet except Aisha were non-virgins when he married them.

porus
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Re: Why Islam is against having physical relationship with n

#6

Unread post by porus » Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:00 pm

Originally posted by porus:
... all the wives of the Prophet except Aisha were non-virgins when he married them.
Actually, I am not totally sure about this. I believe that that is the case.

Aarif
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Re: Why Islam is against having physical relationship with n

#7

Unread post by Aarif » Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:46 pm

Br. Porus thanks for your posts. My question was why does Islam ban one from having physical relationship with a girl who is not married to him? It stems from my assumption that if you are dating someone and you are in love with that person the physical part comes in naturally. Islam being a very logical religion why does it ignore this fact?? In the west this is very common. And many muslims have girl friends and have sex regularly with them. However, Islam prohibits this and does not allow one to get involved in pre-marital sex.

porus
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Re: Why Islam is against having physical relationship with n

#8

Unread post by porus » Tue Jul 15, 2008 3:37 pm

By inference, Quran does not approve of sexual contacts between man and a woman who are not married to each other. There cannot, therefore be an argument against it for Muslims.

If you are looking for reasons why, you will need to look at sociology and anthropology of "advanced" civilizations. I am not in a position to give reasons.

anajmi
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Re: Why Islam is against having physical relationship with n

#9

Unread post by anajmi » Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:26 pm

Aareef,

Dating is also not a part of the Islamic culture. So if you are dating, you might as well have sex when you please. Your argument is similar to these other argument. if I go out with theives, I am bound to steal, so, since going out with theives is not prohibited, stealing shouldn't be either, or if going out with drunkards is not prohibited then drinking alcohol should be allowed too!!

Having sex doesn't come in naturally, unless you are an animal. A young guy with raging hormones falls in love with every other woman he sees. You do the math. Islam is logical, the people who interpret it are not!!

anajmi
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Re: Why Islam is against having physical relationship with n

#10

Unread post by anajmi » Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:38 pm

As far as virginity is concerned, that is simply a personal preference. Islam places no restrictions. The quran talks about marrying widows and divorcees. Chances are that they are not virgins. The quran however does state that the righteous women are for the righteous men and vice versa and the evil women are for evil men and vice versa. So, a woman, even if she is not a virgin, could still be righteous. You need to decide if you are righteous too.

Aarif
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Re: Why Islam is against having physical relationship with n

#11

Unread post by Aarif » Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:19 pm

Having sex doesn't come in naturally, unless you are an animal.
Anajmi,

You have blown out this topic way out of proportion. I wanted to know why Islam prohibits all this. Now going by your philosophy if a husband feels naturally like having sex with his wife is also an animal. Am I right?? Or marrying a woman gives you right to have sex with her??? So before marriage you are an animal and after marriage you are not...

BTW: Aristotle said that man is a social animal. But there is a animal in the end. I think even beast would be OK in that case..
;)

Muslim First
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Re: Why Islam is against having physical relationship with n

#12

Unread post by Muslim First » Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:43 pm

What if we have sex with some one before marriage?
http://islamhelpline.com/view_answers.asp?QAID=805

Why is anal sex not allowed. ? Why is homosexulaity not allowed.?
http://islamhelpline.com/view_answers.asp?QAID=808

Dating & Marriage: How can boys meet girl for marriage?
http://islamhelpline.com/view_answers.asp?QAID=1089

And many related Questions

Premarital sex in Islam
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Pr ... x+in+Islam

Muslim First
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Re: Why Islam is against having physical relationship with n

#13

Unread post by Muslim First » Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:46 pm

Relationship between Boy and Girl before Marriage
http://islamhelpline.com/view_answers.asp?QAID=1173

Aarif
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Re: Why Islam is against having physical relationship with n

#14

Unread post by Aarif » Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:02 pm

Br. MF
AS

Thanks for the links. I went through all of them. They clearly explain that it is haraam in Islam to have sex before marraige. It however does not explain the reasons for doing so. E.g. Islam says that pork is haraam and gives us excellent scientific and logical reasons for the same. However on this issue it is silent most of the times...

In fact this link which is led to by the one that you have posted is anti-islamic (i.e. Premarital sex in Islam
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Pr ... x+in+Islam):

http://www.islam-watch.org/abulkasem/Se ... _islam.htm

However it raises some very important questions like it says:

"The thought of indulging in pre-marital sex by an adult woman is absolutely unthinkable in Islam (For men it is a different story altogether. As we shall see later, it is possible for an unmarried Muslim man to be engaged in sex with slave-girls/captive/infidel women but not with free Muslim women)."

Now I don't know how true this is becos this guy is an ex-muslim and he has qouted some hadith in his article.

Muslim First
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Re: Why Islam is against having physical relationship with n

#15

Unread post by Muslim First » Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:29 pm

I googled and got all those links.

Serch for answer from Islamic sites for slave girls. Prophet had one who was gifted to him by a king and he had a boy with her who passed away.
I would have to do reserch and share it with you.

Wasalaam
.

anajmi
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Re: Why Islam is against having physical relationship with n

#16

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:40 pm

Aareef,
if a husband feels naturally like having sex with his wife
I don't know how a husband can feel like "naturally" having sex with his wife as against having sex "unnaturally"? If it is "naturally" as you have understood, then a husband can feel like "naturally" having sex with his neighbour's wife too!!

Fatwa Banker
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Re: Why Islam is against having physical relationship with n

#17

Unread post by Fatwa Banker » Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:43 pm

Originally posted by anajmi:
Having sex doesn't come in naturally
Speak for yourself !!! Why, mommy had to tell you that too ???

:D :D :D

anajmi
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Re: Why Islam is against having physical relationship with n

#18

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:07 am

I swear man, I have never spoken to your mommy. ;)

feelgud
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Re: Why Islam is against having physical relationship with n

#19

Unread post by feelgud » Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:53 pm

Aareef,
this book may answer your question,

http://www.alrisala.org/Audio_Books/Eng ... Scty_1.pdf

wassalam

Aarif
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Re: Why Islam is against having physical relationship with n

#20

Unread post by Aarif » Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:48 pm

I don't know how a husband can feel like "naturally" having sex with his wife as against having sex "unnaturally"? If it is "naturally" as you have understood, then a husband can feel like "naturally" having sex with his neighbour's wife too!!
Anajmi,

From the links that Br. MF has posted one of them clearly says that Islam only permits sex that comes with natural feelings between a husband and wife. Having sex with your wife out of natural urge is called having sex naturally. If you want to know the difference and if you are still a young man try not to have sex for 15 days with your wife. Then you will see how the sexual urge rises in you naturally. However, if you do not develop that natural urge after 15 days of obstinence something is wrong with you as man. Hope you get the point..

Having sex with a neighbour's wife is a different story. That's where the social part of the whole thing comes into picture. The society deems it as adultary because that woman is married to someone. However, if she is unmarried and I am unmarried and we both like each other i.e. there is free consent between two "MATURED" individuals then what is the problem. I have purposely put the word mature in capital because I am against people who get into physical relationship without understanding its aftermath e.g. teen sex ending in pregnancy.. So in this case there is valid logical reason and that is why in countries like India we have the age factor of 18 yrs for girls and 21 years for guys.

BTW: I am still looking for the real reason why Islam prohibits sex between two individuals who are in love with each other but not yet married and have not found it so far. If anyone knows please let me know...

anajmi
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Re: Why Islam is against having physical relationship with n

#21

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:18 am

Aareef,

One thing is for sure. You do not know what "naturally" means!! How does a man get an urge to have sex with his wife "naturally"? The urge is simply to have sex. A man who chooses to have it with his own wife rather than the neighbours wife is the better man. He is in control of this "nature" of his. That is where the "natural" part ends.
BTW: I am still looking for the real reason why Islam prohibits sex between two individuals who are in love with each other but not yet married and have not found it so far. If anyone knows please let me know...
Unfortunately, you will never find this "real" reason, cause you are not looking to find it. You are simply looking for an excuse to justify sex out of marriage. If you are in love, then get married and have as much sex as you want!! God doesn't have to give you reasons for his commandments. Either you follow them or you don't. Some people simply understand those commandments, some people don't. These are the ones that aren't too "MATURE"!!

Fatwa Banker
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Re: Why Islam is against having physical relationship with n

#22

Unread post by Fatwa Banker » Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:37 am

Originally posted by anajmi:
Aareef,

One thing is for sure. You do not know what "naturally" means!! How does a man get an urge to have sex with his wife "naturally"? The urge is simply to have sex. A man who chooses to have it with his own wife rather than the neighbours wife is the better man. He is in control of this "nature" of his. That is where the "natural" part ends.
You are blowing smoke out of your rear end again as that makes no sense whatsoever, unless you got your education from a Madrasa ! :D

anajmi
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Re: Why Islam is against having physical relationship with n

#23

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Jul 19, 2008 2:33 am

Sniffing my rear end again are you? A "natural" tendency of yours?? :D :D

Fatwa Banker
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Re: Why Islam is against having physical relationship with n

#24

Unread post by Fatwa Banker » Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:59 pm

Let me give you a word of advice, even if sex does not come naturally to you, don't broadcast it over the internet you fool ! :D

porus
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Re: Why Islam is against having physical relationship with n

#25

Unread post by porus » Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:27 pm

Areef,

It is time to end this discussion.

Initially you asked why Islam was against marriage between mahrams. This was answered by reference to fiqh.

You asked if, in Islam, virginity is a requirement for both boy and girl before their marriage. The answer is that if neither party to the marriage was married before, then virginity is a requirement. Because Quran forbids sex before marriage.

You asked if a boy and girl can, with mutual consent, indulge in premarital sex. Again, Quran is against it, regardless of any 'natural urges'. Quran also prohibits adulterous sexual relationships.

Quran is against sex except between man and his wife, period. And it is against sex with 'slave' girls captured in war in earlier part of Islam's history, unless they are first properly married. I would refer you to the calssical commentaries of the Quran Surat an-Nisaa by Raazi.

If you are looking for reasons, study anthropology. You can start with why all societies prohibit sex between a brother and sister, or between father and daughter, or between mother and son. Look into instinctive familial protection and survival of the family. Look also into the instinctive requirement of individuals to extend their families. Then, extrapolate those reasons to apply to extended families. Rules of consanguinity have developed over millenia among societies, I think, primarily for the survival of the species. These rules have been given 'religious blessings' and have become powerful rules of thumb, and thus incorporated into the Scriptures.

anajmi
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Re: Why Islam is against having physical relationship with n

#26

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:41 pm

Fart Bank,

Thank you for your concern about my sex life. Turning into a mommy are you? God save us all!!

anajmi
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Re: Why Islam is against having physical relationship with n

#27

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Jul 19, 2008 2:05 pm

porus' words have to be read very carefully. God created man and then created scripture about man. When porus, talks about those rules receiving 'religious blessings' in quotes, he is trying to indicate that the religion simply took society's rules and created religion. This can be easily refuted. There isn't any society (especially in the west) that prohibits consentual sex between two adults whether they are brother and sister or father and daughter or any other combination porus mentioned. Scripture is the only thing that makes it illegal.

God created man and then created scripture to keep man on the right path. If people were to follow only human laws, "natural" tendencies will take over and we will all become animals.

anajmi
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Re: Why Islam is against having physical relationship with n

#28

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Jul 19, 2008 2:17 pm

One other thing, in today's western societies, sex before marriage is the norm. If you wait till you get married, you will be considered a freak. A 40 year old virgin became a hit movie. I haven't seen any scripture giving this it's 'religious blessing'. Infact society has undergone many changes in the last few centuries, but I haven't seen the "scripture" section of the local library expand at all!!

seeker110
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Re: Why Islam is against having physical relationship with n

#29

Unread post by seeker110 » Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:41 pm

Was Adam married to Eve when they got together?If not then we all would be bas.....
All I wonder about are the Virgins we all will get.Wont have time for the gardens and such,hope there is room service.

Fatwa Banker
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Re: Why Islam is against having physical relationship with n

#30

Unread post by Fatwa Banker » Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:11 pm

Originally posted by anajmi:
If people were to follow only human laws, "natural" tendencies will take over and we will all become animals.
It is this mindset that gravitates Muslims "naturally" toward thugs, dictators and Islamic leaders. They feel that in a secular society they will all become animals as they don't trust their own intellect. It is ironic then that secular laws prevent pedophilia, Islamic laws don't. You don’t see dead bodies being dragged through the streets in secular societies but cheered at by onlookers in Islamic ones; nor do you see prisoners blind folded and shot in stadiums or having their limbs cut off, or being stoned to death for adultery or for not wearing proper attire. Banning such activities has turned people that follow “human laws” into animals, but where Muslims from all over the world are lined up to emigrate to.

It is also ironic that Anajmi spreads his bigotry from the US where we are all animals, as opposed to spreading it from a more refined place such as Saudi Arabia.