Islamic vision of Gabriel

[Gursevak]

Sat sri akal,

can 1 of u explain to me what muslims consider Gabriel to be - is he the same as the holy spirit in chritianity. is he an archangel. can anyone see him or speak to him or do u have to be a prophet

[Arif]

sat sri akaal paaji,

Here are some basic details about Gabriel from Islam perspective:

1) He is called Jibril by muslims
2) Jibril's primary tasks are to bring messages from God to His messengers. He revealed Quran to holy prophet(PBUH)
3) As in Christianity, Gabriel is said to be the angel that informed Mary (Arabic Maryam) of how she would conceive Jesus (Isa):
4) Muslims also believe that Gabriel descends to Earth on the night of Laylat al-Qadr ("The Night of Destiny"), a night in the last ten days of the holy month of Ramadan in the Islamic calendar.
5)Jibril's main task has always been helping prophets and hence, might be not directly accessible to mere mortals.

[Gursevak]

Salaam Aarif,

thank u yaar. i have heard that the caliphs have also seen jibreel so are the caliphs nearly prophets.

[Muslim First]

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Br. Arif

AS

Be careful

Wasalaam
.

[Gursevak]

Be careful

something to hide?

[turbocanuck]

Originally posted by Gursevak:

Be careful

something to hide?

Guru Paaji, yeh toh inki purani aadatsi. Jabhbhi " questioned", to bas "watch it, ya be careful"!!

[Gursevak]

Umar Ibn Al-Khattab reports: One day when we were with Allah's Messenger (saw), a man with very white clothing and very black hair came up to us. No mark of travel was visible on him, and none of us recognized him. Sitting down beside the Prophet (saw), leaning his knees against his and placing his hands on his thighs, he said: “Tell me, Muhammad, about Islam.” He replied: “Islam means that you should testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad (saw) is Allah's Messenger, that you should observe the prayer, pay the Zakat, fast during Ramadan, and make the pilgrimage to the House if you are able to go there.” He said: “You have spoken the truth.” We were surprised at his questioning him and then declaring that he spoke the truth. He said: “Now tell me about Iman.” He replied: “It means that you should believe in Allah (swt), His angels, His books, His messengers, and the Last Day, and that you should believe in the decreeing both of good and evil.” Remarking that he had spoken the truth, he then said: “Now tell me about Ihsan.” He replied: “It means that you should worship Allah (swt) as though you see Him, for He sees you though you do not see Him.” He said: “Now tell me about the Hour.” He replied: “The one who is asked about it is no better informed than the one who is asking.” He said: “Then tell me about its signs.” He replied: “That a maid-servant should beget her mistress, and that you should see barefooted, naked, poor men and shepherds exalting themselves in buildings.” [Umar] says: He then went away, and after I had waited for a long time, [the Prophet] said to me: “Do you know who the questioner was, Umar?” I replied: “Allah and His Messenger know best.” He said: “He was Gabriel who came to you to teach you your religion.”

(Narrated by Muslim)

if gabriel came to teach religion then why was muhammad necessary. also when gabriel delivered the quran could not muhammad call all the disbelievers so they could see that the quran was from allah. or was this the only time gabriel was visible to others - is that why muhammad said to umar he would have been the next prophet had prophethood continued. kitne sawaal he aur jawab denewala koi nahin. rab hi jaane sach kya or jhoot kya

mainu to yeh lagta he ke yeh narrator ne ek aur chaka mara he

[Muslim]

Gursevak,

The naration you quote comes from a Sunni source, so from a Bohra or Shia point of view it may be questionable. Also, Shias would not accept the authenticity saying you quoted about Umar and prophethood.

However, you raise an interesting point. Why was Muhammad needed to reveal a message from God?

The Quranic verses that address this question:

6/7: If We had sent unto thee a written (message) on parchment, so that they could touch it with their hands, the Unbelievers would have been sure to say: "This is nothing but obvious magic!"

6/8: They say: "Why is not an angel sent down to him?" If we did send down an angel, the matter would be settled at once, and no respite would be granted them.

6/9: If We had made it an angel, We should have sent him as a man, and We should certainly have caused them confusion in a matter which they have already covered with confusion.

17/95: Say, "If there were settled, on earth, angels walking about in peace and quiet, We should certainly have sent them down from the heavens an angel for an apostle."

To interpret this, by revealing the Qur'an through a man like ourselves and using his life as a practical example, God is appealing to a man's own sense of reason to guide him into accepting religion rather than on the basis of an event that what would appear as either a miracle or magic (depending on the ultimate outcome). As the Prophetic saying goes, "He who knows himself, knows God".

On a separate note, the original argument can be taken a step further into the philosophical realm - Why would you even need Gabriel? Why could God not have appeared directly to mankind and reveal His message Himself? Or He could have caused all of mankind to simply believe and we would have no need for religion or revelation? ...

[anajmi]

Or He could have caused all of mankind to simply believe and we would have no need for religion or revelation? ...

Even this argument can be taken further. He didn't need to create mankind, then He would definitely have no need for religion or revelation?...

[Muslim]

Absolutely...

[tahir]

Originally posted by Gursevak:
if gabriel came to teach religion then why was muhammad necessary.

I guess this goes in all religions. Why didn't Krishna himself fight mahabharata and finish it off in a few minutes? He had to use a confused Arjun...so many days so many deaths!

[Gursevak]

my last line summed up my view on the hadith "mainu to yeh lagta he ke yeh narrator ne ek aur chaka mara he"

i entirely agree with all of u that the surefire way of making man believe in god would be for god himself to force us to believe - kinda send us fully programmed but then why create earth. i still find it hard to believe that non-prophets can see gabriel.

i did a search on "he who knows himself" and found the saying attributed to ali here

it is also on a number of sufi sites and on a bahai site. do all of these sects revere ali.

[Muslim First]

Br. Muslim
AS

The naration you quote comes from a Sunni source, so from a Bohra or Shia point of view it may be questionable. Also, Shias would not accept the authenticity saying you quoted about Umar and prophethood.

There are Ahadith which have more than one reporter. If these reporters are acceptable to Shias then they become part of Shee Islam.

The Hadith is only teaches us about Islam, Imaan, Ihsan, the Hour and its signs.

There are many Ahadit which teaches same supported by Ayas from Qur'an.

We have here a brother who hates Islam and is trying to stir up hatred. Just remember a book of Hadith is useless until it is properly explained by one who is proficient in Ahadit.

For some, A Hadith is like razor in langoor's hand.

BTW no body in group recognized Gibreal until Prophet SAW identified him after he was gone.

Can you post a link to Shia Hadith collection?

Wasalaam

[Gursevak]

We have here a brother who hates Islam and is trying to stir up hatred.

Apne giraban me jhankar dekhiya. so the wahabi trio luv shias do they. is that why they are shit stirring.

BTW no body in group recognized Gibreal until Prophet SAW identified him after he was gone.

i did not ask whether non prophets could recognise gabriel i wanted to know if jibreel is visible to ordinary people.

r u willing to put ur head on the line and say categorically that every hadith is true

[Muslim First]

.
Very interesting discussion here.

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/lofiversi ... t4634.html

Br. Guru
Greetings to you and happy new year.
.

[Muslim First]

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Br. Muslim
AS again

Why we do not look at message but immediately attack messenger?
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[Gursevak]

Muslim First.

happy new year to you too.

although u ducked my question i got my answer from the link u provided - there are question marks over a number of hadith in bukhari and muslim according to 1 of the postings there. so if 1 shahih is not sahih then who is to say any sahih is sahih.

[Muslim First]

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Science of Hadith
http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Hadith/Ulum/

Singular Hadith
Plural Ahadith
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[Muslim First]

Guru Paaji, yeh toh inki purani aadatsi. Jabhbhi " questioned", to bas "watch it, ya be careful"!!

Turbooch;

Islam is open religion.
Its books are open
Its Mosques are open
Sensible discussions are openly done.

Agakhni religion is secret.
Jamatkhanas are closed except to worshippers of Anglo.
Try posting Faramans on Ismaili.net

Happy new year
.

[Gursevak]

Sensible discussions are openly done

sensible

[Muslim]

Originally posted by Muslim First:
.
Br. Muslim
AS again

Why we do not look at message but immediately attack messenger?
.

MF,

Not sure I follow. Can you elaborate? What "messenger" have I attacked?

[turbocanuck]

Originally posted by Muslim First:

Guru Paaji, yeh toh inki purani aadatsi. Jabhbhi " questioned", to bas "watch it, ya be careful"!!

Turbooch;

Dear Hypocrite first,

.

Its books are open
Oh yeah? why dont you guys preach what is in the hadiths regarding women and children?

Its Mosques are open
to women too?

Sensible discussions are openly done.

Grunting like a Pig isnt sensible