Wahhabism

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anajmi
Posts: 13403
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Wahhabism

#1

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:23 pm

Kindly keep the personal attacks to a minimum.

Is there a book similar to Daimul Islam that I can buy to learn about what Wahabi Islam teaches?

I read sometime back that Wahabis believe that Allah is 9 feet tall and sits on a throne carried by his angels. Where can I find this as a part of wahabi teachings.

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Wahhabism

#2

Unread post by Muslim First » Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:07 pm

Br. Anajmi
AS
You beat me to it.
Porus
Ball is in your court
Serve
Wasalaam

Primers:

"WAHABISM EXPOSED!"
Sheikh Muhammad ibn ‘Abd al Wahhab
Hidaayah Islamic Foundation [ Sri Lanka ]
http://www.sultan.org/articles/wahabism.html

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=n ... q=Wahabism
.

porus
Posts: 3594
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Wahhabism

#3

Unread post by porus » Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:11 pm

MF,

There are millions of articles on Wahhabism. I want your take on it. What is it that you believe about it. I think that you are a Wahhabi. Why? If you do not agree, tell us why.

porus
Posts: 3594
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Wahhabism

#4

Unread post by porus » Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:26 pm

MF,

Please do not give us links to other articles.

Start in manageable ideas, one at time. So, we can discuss them.

Start with a topical discussion. What do you think of Yazid and Muawiyah? Do you agree with Zakir Naik that they deserve Allah's pleasure? And what did Imam Hussain do for Islam? This is relevant. What is the official Wahhabi position? Do you agree? Your views, please. No article references.

Muslim First
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Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Wahhabism

#5

Unread post by Muslim First » Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:29 pm

Br. Porus

I ca not define Wahabism except what I read.

Here is what I believe.

Oneness of Allah

Prophet being the last prophet.

I do not worship dead people.

I study Qur'an when time permits.

Pray 5 times a day. Try my best to be on time.
I follow earlier time of Asr.

I try to do good deeds. I am involved in family charitable institution in education (English medium school and Public welfare project).

I help and guide to build religious and cultural infrastructure in New England area.

I do not force my view on anybody that includes my wife and children.

I am sure you will find enough common points to identify me as Wahabi and I bet you will never recognize me as Wahabi if you met me.

Wasalaam
.

turbocanuck
Posts: 1531
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2003 4:01 am

Re: Wahhabism

#6

Unread post by turbocanuck » Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:29 pm

Originally posted by porus:
MF,

There are millions of articles on Wahhabism. I want your take on it. What is it that you believe about it. I think that you are a Wahhabi. Why? If you do not agree, tell us why.
Porus, one of the main tenets of Wahhabis is to kill.....and this my friend, has already been established by "lalloo, Prasad and Yadav" ;) "Idiot First" has openly expressed his desire to Kill other Muslims who dont pray like him!!

porus
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Re: Wahhabism

#7

Unread post by porus » Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:38 pm

MF,

I spent many years in Saudi Arabia in Riyadh with many close Wahhabi friends. They (friends) are some of the nicest people I know, generous to a fault.

And I have met a few whom I would not want to meet if they were the last people on earth.

porus
Posts: 3594
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Wahhabism

#8

Unread post by porus » Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:47 pm

Originally posted by turbocanuck:
one of the main tenets of Wahhabis is to kill.....
They believe that it is lawful to kill Muslims who do not believe as they do. They declare them aposatates.

Apostates are almost the entire Muslim population of the world who have abandoned Islam and are in a state of Jahiliyah. Anyone, including women and children, is a lawful target.

Some, like the Shia, are beyond redemption. MF's article that whitewashes Abdul Wahhab (Shikh?) does not mention these views. His brother Sulayman who condemned his vies has written a lot about him.

Muslim First
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Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Wahhabism

#9

Unread post by Muslim First » Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:48 pm

.
What do you think of Yazid and Muawiyah?

Majority of Muslims do not have favorable view on both and I am with majority. I try not to dwell on this negative aspect of Islamic History.

Zakir Naik that they deserve Allah's pleasure?

That is ZN’s opinion and he is trying to explain it away. Only Allah knows weather he will punish or not.

And what did Imam Hussain do for Islam?

Islam was complete at the death of Prophet SAW. So it would be correct to say that Imam Hussain did not add or subtract to Qur’an or to Islam. He did put up resistance to corrupt regime and ultimately gave his life. Islam did not wither away because of it. He taught and inspired people to take stand for righteousness.

What is the official Wahhabi position?

I do not know. you tell me.

Wasalaam
.

porus
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Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Wahhabism

#10

Unread post by porus » Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:50 pm

MF,

Engage in proper debate. What has reading Quran go to do with it? I read the Quran too. That does not mean that I am not a Wahhabi or that I am one.

Muslim First
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Re: Wahhabism

#11

Unread post by Muslim First » Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:53 pm

MF's article that whitewashes

That is what wrong with you Br. Porus.

I did not write that article.

Turbooch

When we discuss Agakhanism your input will be welcome. Keep it to Wahbism.

Br. Porus do not let Turooch personalize this discussion.

Wasalaam

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Wahhabism

#12

Unread post by Muslim First » Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:56 pm

.
You asked "What is it that you believe about it".

I am sure Imam A. Wahab believed in it too.

.

porus
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Re: Wahhabism

#13

Unread post by porus » Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:56 pm

Originally posted by Muslim First:

Islam was complete at the death of Prophet SAW. So it would be correct to say that Imam Hussain did not add or subtract to Qur’an or to Islam.
What is the global battle for Islam amongst Muslims all about? Islam is complete as you say, but all Muslims are still fighting? Why?

Muslim First
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Re: Wahhabism

#14

Unread post by Muslim First » Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:58 pm

More on Monday

I need to do some work. Short week next week. Need to prepare payroll for monday.do not have internate at home.

Wasalaam
.

turbocanuck
Posts: 1531
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2003 4:01 am

Re: Wahhabism

#15

Unread post by turbocanuck » Sat Dec 29, 2007 2:06 pm

Dear Munafiq First, Just stating the facts....WE ARE talking about Wahhabism, and the whole world knows what kind of people you lot are. Your "good" deeds are to be seen everyday. You must be proud to be a wahhabi. Keep it up. boy!

Gursevak
Posts: 249
Joined: Sun May 05, 2002 4:01 am

Re: Wahhabism

#16

Unread post by Gursevak » Sat Dec 29, 2007 3:24 pm

When we discuss Agakhanism your input will be welcome. Keep it to Wahbism.
Porus is discussing but anti u r discussing for so u clearly admit to being a wahabi.

some of ur posts are very evidently not in ur own words. r u copying and pasting or ghosting for ur masters?

Last week was a short week but u did not "withdraw to consuli" so ur next posts should presumably be ur master's voice then.

Can u when u r free again give me the wahabi interpretation of the hadith about world being created in 6 days and also the one narrated by Aisha about the prophet touching all the parts of his body that he could reach with his hands.

pls do not mess up the payroll - some poor sod will be too scared to complain in case (s)he gets wahabied eh

anajmi
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Re: Wahhabism

#17

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Dec 29, 2007 5:04 pm

porus,
There are millions of articles on Wahhabism.
Unfortunately, I wasn't able to find a single article written by a wahhabi talking about the teachings of wahhab. Every single article (I just went through the first few pages of links in google) is trying to expose wahhabism. I cannot trust these articles to give me an unbiased opinion about wahhabism. So, is there a book about wahhabism, similar to Daimul Islam, that I can purchase, hopefully, an English translation of the same?
I think that you are a Wahhabi. Why? If you do not agree, tell us why.
Since you think I am a wahhabi too, let me answer that question.

I do not follow the teachings of Abd al wahhab, since I haven't found any books or any writings dedicated to him that teach wahhabism. For eg, you said that wahhabis believe that Allah is 9 feet tall and he is carried on a throne by angels (by the way, I am still waiting for a reference to that), I do not know where you got that idea from and I do not believe that.

I do not believe in killing Muslims - any muslim, shia or sunni. So, I am not a wahhabi. Now, I have said this many times before and it hasn't stopped you from still calling me a wahhabi, so now it is your turn to tell me what is a wahhabi and what are the teachings of Abd al wahhab.

anajmi
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Re: Wahhabism

#18

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Dec 29, 2007 5:21 pm

By the way, I also believe that if it hadn't been for Muawiyah and Yazid (and some misguided followers of Hazrat Ali) the Islamic world would've been much more united than it is today. I also believe that Hazrat Hussain did the right thing by standing up against Yazid. He could've backed out or made a deal, like most politicians would do, but he chose to sacrifice himself and all that was dear to him. Only a person on the path of righteousness can have the courage to do something like that. And the fact that Yazid chose to kill him and his followers shows the mentality of evil and nothing else.

There, now that definitely proves that I am not a wahhabi.

SBM
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Re: Wahhabism

#19

Unread post by SBM » Sat Dec 29, 2007 5:46 pm

Salaams
There is a very good book written by Karen Armstrong
: Islam: A Short History (Modern Library Chronicles): Books: Karen Armstrong
It is a fantastic book and give a complete chronological order of Islamic dynasty up to the events of 9/11 Does talk about Wahabisim, sorry Syedna and Bohras are not included in this book
It is a very good and very well put together

porus
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Re: Wahhabism

#20

Unread post by porus » Sun Dec 30, 2007 12:51 am

Originally posted by anajmi:
you said that wahhabis believe that Allah is 9 feet tall and he is carried on a throne by angels.
You should have noticed " :D " when I wrote that. It was a jest alluding to literalism of Wahhabis.

There are plenty of pro-Wahhabi articles on the web. Modern Wahhabism derives from the teachings of those who follow Wahhab, and it is not confined to legalising killing of those who they define as apostates and Muslim 'polytheists' or admiration of Yazid and Muawiya.

It covers literal interpretations of Quran and Sunnah, supremacist attitude towards their creed, condemnation of rationality, modernism etc, and sidelining the major sunni madhaaib, the Shafi, the Maliki, the Hanafi and, to some extent, Hanbali; all of which we will discuss in this thread.

anajmi
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Re: Wahhabism

#21

Unread post by anajmi » Sun Dec 30, 2007 1:11 am

It was a jest alluding to literalism of Wahhabis.
So that is not what wahhabis think? I actually didn't think it was a jest. It became a jest after I called your bluff.
all of which we will discuss in this thread.
I can't wait. Let us see how much of it is going to be a joke. Every thing else you said is neither here nor there.

porus
Posts: 3594
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Wahhabism

#22

Unread post by porus » Sun Dec 30, 2007 1:32 am

anajmi,

With your attitude, there is not much point discussing this with you.

In my book, you remain a Wahhabi dupe.

porus
Posts: 3594
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Wahhabism

#23

Unread post by porus » Sun Dec 30, 2007 1:39 am

Actually Wahhabis do literally believe that Allah is carried on a throne by angels. It is their interpretation of an ayat of the Quran. I believe that a Wahhabi 'scholar' has said that he is 9 feet tall. But I would discount it as a belief held by all Wahhabis. I will see if I can find a reference.

anajmi
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Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Wahhabism

#24

Unread post by anajmi » Sun Dec 30, 2007 2:06 am

porus,

Remember the time when you translated "Akhirat" from the quran as "The End". Nothing gets more literal than that. So, as far as I am concerned, you are in the front of the "dumb wahhabis" line. Hence, as I said before, when you call me a wahhabi, it means nothing. Now please ignore all my comments. I promise you, I will behave. Let us have a scholarly discussion on wahhabis, their history and their beliefs.

porus
Posts: 3594
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Wahhabism

#25

Unread post by porus » Sun Dec 30, 2007 2:48 am

Go through my translations of the Quran ayats and you will find that they are as literal as I can make them, without adding or deleting words that are not in the original.

I do not literally interpret them though.

Alislam
Posts: 234
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Re: Wahhabism

#26

Unread post by Alislam » Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:28 am

There was a book written by an English spy, David Humfrey, titled " Humfrey ke tafriqat" which talked about the events that brought Abdul wahab and Ibn saud together and how they distorted the Islamic teachings and introduced intolerance into the society.

I'll share the contents of this book as i trace it.

turbocanuck
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Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2003 4:01 am

Re: Wahhabism

#27

Unread post by turbocanuck » Sun Dec 30, 2007 3:24 pm

There is an excellent documentary on Wahhabism by some scholars on PBS, gist of which can be found here...
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline ... abism.html

there are a lot of familiar instances when Wahhabis are described....a lot of "kaffir" is uttered by them....sound familiar???? ;)

anajmi
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Re: Wahhabism

#28

Unread post by anajmi » Sun Dec 30, 2007 4:55 pm

So none of you can actually find anything about Wahhabi teachings written by a wahhabi and for a wahhabi?

jawanmardan
Posts: 398
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Re: Wahhabism

#29

Unread post by jawanmardan » Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:24 pm

The Wahabbi began as a reform movement within the Hanboli Madhab. Abdul Al-Wahab believed that Muslims had lost their way and only by returning to the “original” and “pure” form of Islam Muslims would once again be great.

A Jihad was launched against all Muslims, including the contemporary scholars in Mecca and Medina who disagreed with Abdul Al-Wahabbis ideas.

Wahabbi reject the writings of what is regarded by us as “’Islams Golden age”, they reject not just philosophy, but also any for of spiritual mysticism such as that espoused by Al-Ghazali. As well as following the madhabs of Sunni Islam.

Thus they are sometimes regarded as being outside Sunni Islam; as they rely purely on literal interpretations of Qu’ran and Hadith, and on the early interpreters of Islam such as Ibn Taymiyya, but reject later scholars.

Wahabbi almost never refer to themselves as Wahabbi, but prefer terms like Salafi, or plain “Muslim” (since they reject Madhabs).

Wahabbi can only be identified by their beliefs, like many of the modern reform movements like Qutbism, as founded by Sayyid Qutb, which is also considered the founding stone of groups like Al-Qaeda and the Taliban, which in turn have connections with the Wahaabi..

anajmi
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Re: Wahhabism

#30

Unread post by anajmi » Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:32 pm

jawanmardan,

So in short, a wahhabi is one who does not agree with you.