Is Prophet Mohammad also referred to as "NOOR"

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znanwalla
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Re: Is Prophet Mohammad also referred to as "NOOR"

#271

Unread post by znanwalla » Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:06 pm

The moron thinks denigrating the prophet and his family is "having fun" ! so you can now understand their level and understanding of islam....

Expansion of the Heart (Sharh-i Sadr): Sharh-i Sadr literally means to open the chest, that is, the expansion of the heart, which in turn means the expansion of the human soul, because the centre of the soul is the heart and mind.

Although expansion and contraction are the characteristics of the body and not of the soul, yet the world of similitude (mithal), which is subtle and spiritual, is like this world in expansion and breadth, as God says: "And vie one with another for forgiveness from your Lord, and for a paradise as wide as are the heavens and the earth, prepared for those who are righteous." (Holy Qur'an 3:133)

So you can figure out where these folks with their goat eaten texts will end? in the Pit Fire ofcourse !

zn

anajmi
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Re: Is Prophet Mohammad also referred to as "NOOR"

#272

Unread post by anajmi » Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:27 pm

znan,

You are quoting fabrications right? Since you are known to quote fabrications, you cannot be taken seriously.

Omar Bin Abubakar
Posts: 44
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Is Prophet Mohammad also referred to as "NOOR"

#273

Unread post by Omar Bin Abubakar » Wed Nov 19, 2008 1:29 am

by anajmi on Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:54 pm

znan,

Allah has protected the quran. That is why people like you are left quoting from fabrications. What a pity. Didn't your Hazar Imam share the quran with you? Maybe you don't deserve it. Prophet and Hazrat Ali may be from the same noor, but no part of that noor is with Aga Khan. He is a fake.
@ znan, Is it true that ur Imam doesn't show even his followers your hidden quran? or do you guys have a quran where everything is correct?are you quoting from the hidden one?

@Anajmi, I have to agree with you that Allah says he will protect his word. So, there is no question of any mere mortal (the caliphs and others accused of distorting or leaving out ayahs or letting goats eat it -funny the last one btw) being able to mess with gods work...having said that zan seems pretty convinced otherwise, its confusing :?

znanwalla
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Re: Is Prophet Mohammad also referred to as "NOOR"

#274

Unread post by znanwalla » Wed Nov 19, 2008 2:07 am

Omar, how did you learn of that? did Maherally tell you? or maybe Mir Bose called you huh?

You guys convict millions of muslims without even understanding what they believe or practice? Did the Almighty Allah command you folks to do that? or did arabia send you here to propagate unjust messages and call others whatever names you like? and when we respond then you don't seem to like it....

When I have already said to you that the Quran is not hidden from us , why are you asking silly and provocative questions?

I have told you that I do not depend on your texts !

You can believe what you want and follow what you like ! who cares? I don't for sure !.....you are making statements cheering your friends but then at least first answer all our questions? do you have the capacity then say so and commit and I will ask again and then don't blame me that you don't like what I am asking? If you have no ability to answer then the less you poke your nose the better....

We can discuss about the Quran in a far superior manner and we have shown this to you and all others here....Maherally knows nothing about Quran and I doubt you also know anything....

The Quran from the Wise is what remains protected, the Quran as revealed and as given to Ali as Muhamad's legitimate successor... so Reflect and Ponder ! Allah says WE reveal and WE protect as guardians and NO falsehood enters into HIS Quran ! Do you see Allah uses WE as HIS First person ? and so it is clear that HIS Quran is the one which is protected !

HIS Revelation as it is from the WISE is authentic ! It is intact ! It is protected on both tablets ! It is unaltered ! It is safe ! It is flawless ! It is in its correct chronological order... and it is the Perspicous Book that was already existing ....so now go and find it if you can ? otherwise keep on protecting your own texts huh and don't waste my time please....zn

znanwalla
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Re: Is Prophet Mohammad also referred to as "NOOR"

#275

Unread post by znanwalla » Wed Nov 19, 2008 2:38 am

See what the HQ says about the prophet:

" Say: If your fathers and your sons and your brethren and your wives
and your tribe and the wealth ye have acquired and your merchandise
for which ye fear there will be no sale and dwellings ye desire, are
dearer to you then God and HIS Messenger and STRIVING IN HIS WAY,
then wait till God bringeth HIS command to pass. God guideth not
wrong doing folk..." (Sura al Tawba)

"And for whom Allah hath not appointed Light, for him there is no Light" (Sura al Nur)

" And they say we believe in Allah and the Prophet and we obey, then after that a faction of them turn away. Such are NOT the believers" ( Sura al Nur)

Even God is lamenting over good muslims like you:

" Is there in their hearts a disease or do they have doubts or fears, lest Allah and His Prophet should wrong them in Judgment?"

zn

Muslim First
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Re: Is Prophet Mohammad also referred to as "NOOR"

#276

Unread post by Muslim First » Wed Nov 19, 2008 8:38 am

When I have already said to you that the Quran is not hidden from us , why are you asking silly and provocative questions?
How many doses of Angel Dust before you start seeing your Qur'an?

Muslim First
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Re: Is Prophet Mohammad also referred to as "NOOR"

#277

Unread post by Muslim First » Wed Nov 19, 2008 8:47 am

.
Ismaili Translation of 36.12

"And We have encompassed everything in a Manifest Imam." (36:12).

Translation by 3 well known Scholars

36. 12
Surely We shall resurrect the dead, We are recording all that they are sending ahead and
that they are leaving behind. We have recorded everything in an open ledger. (Malik)

36.12
Lo! We it is Who bring the dead to life. We record that which they send before (them), and
their footprints. And all things We have kept in a clear register. (Pickthall)

36.12
Verily We shall give life to the dead and We record that which they sent before and that which
they leave behind and of all things have We taken account in a clear Book (of evidence) (Yusuf Ali)

ZN Where did you get translation? From Aga Khan Institute of Fake Islamic Studies?

anajmi
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Re: Is Prophet Mohammad also referred to as "NOOR"

#278

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Nov 19, 2008 8:50 am

Br. Muslim First,

As I've said before, Ismailism is a big khichdi. Their hidden quran is their Imam. Plain and simple. Unfortunately, their hidden quran also quotes from our quran and so his idiotic followers are left quoting from our quran too. The Ismailis have nothing but a fairy tale.

turbocanuck
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Re: Is Prophet Mohammad also referred to as "NOOR"

#279

Unread post by turbocanuck » Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:44 am

anajmi wrote:Br. Muslim First,

As I've said before, Ismailism is a big khichdi.
Look at the state of the Muslim Ummah today, where retarded Ulema hand out Fatwas as if they were handing out birthday invitations, where they practice violence as part of Islam, FGM, Women abuse (one brave Moron also threatened to slap a woman on this forum), Rape and Murder.........then this idiot has the gall to call Ismailism Khichdi, No Sir. We are a cohesive community, smooth sailing with guidance from our Imam in every walk of life..., that is why we are not Punished by Allah,and then look at you guys, whacked and annihilated in every way. THe only Khichdi existing really is in your DNA :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Aarif
Posts: 1426
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:01 am

Re: Is Prophet Mohammad also referred to as "NOOR"

#280

Unread post by Aarif » Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:48 am

The envoy (Rasul) inaugurates a new religious period; he is the enunciator (Natiq) of a religious Law (Shari'at),
I agree with you on this. However in your qoute you have nowhere mentioned the name of Allah. Now here is my perspective of the whole thing. If you go through ayahs of quran which I have even posted in this thread you will realize that the prophet (pbuh) always portrayed himself as a messenger of Allah. He was just instrumental in delivering Allah's message to the masses. Nowhere in Quran he has claimed any authority about himself. So going by this he started spreading Islam because he was told to do so by an authority higher and above him and i.e. Allah. In other words without the marzi or wish of Allah he was not capable of doing so on his own. Now this is very important to understand because this makes it crystal clear that the prophet was just following the orders of his master i.e. Allah.
he places the letter of this text in the exoteric Zahir form. It is his mission to establish the rules of the practice, and activity the Ibadat Amaliya, through which the souls are given a "first birth" their perfectio prima if you will.
The spiritual successor to the Natiq is the Wasi a diadochos, he is designated the foundation "asas" that in the form of the foundation of the Imamate. The wasi's proper function is as a repository of the spiritual religion in the form of Tawil (which carries back) the exoteric Zahir to its spiritual hidden center the batin. His mission is to establish the spiritual aspects of faith the Ibadat 'Batinat 'ilmiya, so as to mold the soul into the eternal forms, for his adepts the is the second spiritual birth..
Now read your above two qoutes. In one you are saying that the prophet's duty is to spread the Zahir message to the Ummah in the way he recieves it from Allah (if I am getting it right). In the second qoute you mention that he has a spiritual successor... Now the question is if the prophet has delivered the uncorrupted and complete message to the masses, he has documented it in Quran, which tells you everything about Islam, than why does he deem it neccessary to leave a spiritual successor??? Secondly as I have clearly mentioned above in this post that it is the right of Allah to decide who will get his noor or light. This is not in the hands of human beings.
Next is the Imam, he assumes authority over the community in a spiritual esoteric sense, and actually in a temporal exoteric sense under exceptional circumstances. he connects zahir and batin, the necessary transmutation of the adepts into spiritual beings. The last Imam of every line the Qaim or Mahdi (resurrector) in whose being is recapitulated the entire previous Imams leads their temple of 'aql (light).
Can you explain this in the light of Quran? Because when you say that he assumes authority in spiritual sense, it does not make any sense. How can he assume authority?? Again my understanding is that only allah can decide upon the spiritual aspect of authority...


For the below mentioned qoutes please forgive me for my language. actually it had nothing to do with you and they were directed towards Pardesi and Company and not you...
Can you buy this load of crap??
If you don't want to have a civil discussion then what is the point?
Anyways let's enjoy till the fun lasts :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
If thats your point, I rather not play along.

Muslim First
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Re: Is Prophet Mohammad also referred to as "NOOR"

#281

Unread post by Muslim First » Wed Nov 19, 2008 12:31 pm

Turbo

Leave the Muslim Ummah alone for a while. We are dicussing Islam and its other aspects.

Many of Muslim Ummah are screwed up bacause they are not following Islam but fake teachers including your Imam.

Any comment on 36.12? You do not have enough brains to comment on it.

Take care. Go to toranot and "Charan Choo"

znanwalla
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Re: Is Prophet Mohammad also referred to as "NOOR"

#282

Unread post by znanwalla » Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:05 pm

Areef,

You have to first explain to us why GOD uses plural for HIS First Person i.e. WE/US/OURS? Once you do that and are able to tie this up for the members, one can easily answer your ignorant questions...also you guys have failed miserably to answer most questions which we have asked of you....circling and chasing your own tails, is not showing any intelligence......zn

znanwalla
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Re: Is Prophet Mohammad also referred to as "NOOR"

#283

Unread post by znanwalla » Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:13 pm

Areef,


Go and read your history and do some better research .....Imam Ali assumed ALL authority of the Prophet save Prophethood and don't come to talk to us with your madrassa type knowledge....if you do not know what authority the Prophet held or what is the difference between a Messenger and a Prophet then please don't waste our time asking irrelevant questions....Any continuous acts or operation of the tools of creation cannot be separated from any initial act of creation and so if the creator of man and the universe is just one, the governance is not questionable as there exists a link between creation and governance and so nobody has the right to judge what God has commanded and 'whoso judgeth not according to that which God hath revealed, such are the disbelievers.." (Sura al Ma'ida)...God just says : "BE" and it becomes and HE is not restricted in time or space either....He even cast "words" into Mary (Mariam) and there was an "immaculate" conception.....first go and understand TAWHID properly and then rave and rant in front of us !...zn

znanwalla
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Re: Is Prophet Mohammad also referred to as "NOOR"

#284

Unread post by znanwalla » Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:17 pm

MF....if actually one was to closely examine the evidence, it is just the other way around ! if anyone is fake or screwed up, it is you and your Pals.....you all belong to a cult that is one of the most despised in this world.... You are using "wrath to come" as a weapon with which to threaten and terrorize your followers into pious acts and total obedience where your scholars and clergy is the "omnipotent" master and man and the poor followers who are ever in danger of incurring their wrath and this is then the basis of your own ethics and theology...which is in contradiction to real Islam !...so try and put your own house in order and don't worry as much about others...zn

Aarif
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Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:01 am

Re: Is Prophet Mohammad also referred to as "NOOR"

#285

Unread post by Aarif » Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:31 pm

don't come to talk to us with your madrassa type knowledge....
I promise I won't once you stop talking to me with your Jamat Khana type knowledge... :wink:

znanwalla
Posts: 974
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Is Prophet Mohammad also referred to as "NOOR"

#286

Unread post by znanwalla » Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:41 pm

Areef, Actually our JK type knowledge is far superior and we have proved this over and over again....do you know why? because the JK is the house of our beloved Prophet and his family and so the knowledge therefrom is obviously far superior unlike yours which is at the lower level and the world is able to judge this ...so your opinion is as worthless as its own author !

MF.......Please don't read your variant and interpolated translations whose words have been fixed for you and then simply carry your ignorance across....have you listened to the arabic version of 36:12 ? if you haven't and all those who haven't should please listen to the arabic and then it is easy to know or understand what "WA KULLA SHAI'N AHSAINAHU FI IMAMIM MUBEEN means or should mean or ought to mean?....The meaning of everything cannot be complete without intellects and souls, nor can a merely silent book possess all intellectual and spiritual (moving) things. Therefore, it is true to say that the description of the book or register is the Imâm-i mubîn" [Source: Tawil 33: A Thousand Wisdoms] ....and Allah is again clear ..."SAY: Were the Sea to be the Ink for the words of My Lord, verily the sea would be used up before the words of My Lord were exhausted, even if WE were to bring the like thereof to help...." (Sura al Kahf)...sorry pal ! even God says the Book is NOT enough ! and that is why The Holy Prophet said to the Umma to cling to his Progeny also.....and then Allah says...."verily WE have shown him the way, whether he be grateful or disbelieving..."

So Mr MF.....don't wave your translations at us ! they are for you ! as according to some ridiculous, illogical and wrong notions , some group of men began to interpret Quran from their sectarian point of view and began to style themselves as Ulama and Ahl-uz-Zikr and these Ulama further cut up the Muslims into various sects according to their own school or method of thought.

Now every Mulla of a mosque, who does not know what is beyond his nose, claims to interpret the Quran and styles himself Alim.....and the same is true for you too, if I may say so !...zn

znanwalla
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Re: Is Prophet Mohammad also referred to as "NOOR"

#287

Unread post by znanwalla » Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:45 pm

Let him "hallucinate" in his Pit latrine with his veggies ! I am showing restraint but it is obvious he is a coward and refuses to come on a ride with me so I can give him some fun and "warmth"....I even said bring your pals along....but they are good muslims who only subjugate their own veggies....and bark from afar.....he makes me laugh ! he wants to spank me....hahahahahah!!...zn

anajmi
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Re: Is Prophet Mohammad also referred to as "NOOR"

#288

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:50 pm

znan,

How can Allah be clear if you are quoting fabrications? You are a fabricator.

znanwalla
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Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Is Prophet Mohammad also referred to as "NOOR"

#289

Unread post by znanwalla » Wed Nov 19, 2008 5:01 pm

Folks like Najmi and MF have surely lost their moral and intellectual positions in the way the treat their women even when Islam affords equal rights to women....certain prerogatives which they have abolished always formed a part of women's natural rights and so it is churlish not to mention that they have subjugated their women and treat them as chattels due to their own misplaced chauvinism. They are living in an interesting but harmful delusions imaging themselves as some special instruments of the Divine ! hahahahah ! they belong to a cult that treats women as intellectually, morally and physically inferior..."women have less reason and faith"....it is in one of their hadith !...."he who touches the palm of a woman...will have red hot ambers put in the palm of his hand on judgment day..." goes one famous hadith.....(so is it okay to touch them elsewhere or spank them huh)?....just wondering? hahahahahh!!...and now he is dreaming again of "touching" me !!! hahahahah.....zn

znanwalla
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Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Is Prophet Mohammad also referred to as "NOOR"

#290

Unread post by znanwalla » Wed Nov 19, 2008 5:04 pm

najmi,

Now I am also quoting from your fabricated ahadith which were especially written for ignorant people like you ....enjoy them ! I have lots more to quote - let the world know the truth that you are all the biggest obfuscators.....hahahahahhah!!!!...zn

anajmi
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Re: Is Prophet Mohammad also referred to as "NOOR"

#291

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Nov 19, 2008 5:15 pm

znan,

So you concede that you quote fabrications. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

This is way too funny.

Africawala0000
Posts: 298
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Is Prophet Mohammad also referred to as "NOOR"

#292

Unread post by Africawala0000 » Wed Nov 19, 2008 8:09 pm

MF,
.
Ismaili Translation of 36.12

"And We have encompassed everything in a Manifest Imam." (36:12).

Translation by 3 well known Scholars

36. 12
an open ledger. (Malik)

clear register. (Pickthall)

36.12
a clear Book (of evidence) (Yusuf Ali)

ZN Where did you get translation? From Aga Khan Institute of Fake Islamic Studies?
So what is it? ledger, register, clear book?


Listen go produce something from a Shia scholar for a change, because we have seen that those who have accepted your version have been roaming the deserts still!

Don't you think if Allah wanted to refer to a book, he would have said "kitab", why manifest Imam. Books can be visible so Manifest would not be used for a book.

And according to your version "Manifest Light" is also book. So when Allah says, "Lit is such Light" does that mean Book is Lit?" What are you guys talking about?

And one of your sidekicks said that Allah is going to protect his word! How? So far you have interpreted Jihad as a right to kill Jews and Christians and all those who do not accept your word.

You have misinterpreted the five pillars, Ushr has become 2.5%; raping orphans and stoning 13 year old victim of rape are considered Sharia. Tell me how Allah S.W.T. has protected his word? Or for that matter Book.?There are several translations, so what is the real word? So who is right, Malik, Yusuf Ali or Pickthal.

You Jahaliyas will never walk straight, that is why you are cursed ones and according to Sura 104 which applies to all 3 of you, your abode is Hell.

There is no fake Imam, only fake Muslim Jahalyas, and there is no fake Islamic studies, only Fake MF and his cohorts.

You try to interpret Qur'an to us? Go teach it to the Jahalyas in this forum.

MF, How does your Guru, Maherally feel now that Ismaili flags and Golden Jubilee Banners are flying in his backyard in Vancouver, all over town and across the bridge!IHis sentiments must be trickling down to you and your cohorts. Good. Burn more. We see the pain in your posts!


I am sure you must have seen the links on Ismaili.net Care to provide them here? Yesterday, our Imam was received with Canadian National Anthem and Nashid Al-Imama! Is there a Muslim leader in this world who has been received with such grandeur. I am not talking about Heads of States! I am talking about Religious Leader, like ayatollah, Mullah, Mufti, etc.?

Get it clear, Jahalyas, Ismailis are not illiterate like you. They are educated people. They use their intellect unlike you. Besides, Ismailis are led by an Imam,like of whom is nowhere in the world! Your nonsensical arguments and tail chasing will not make any impact on literate people.

And lastly, Manifest Imam means a visible Imam not a Book. Manifest Light means Visible Light of Allah. All Books are visible. And all books are not considered Allah's word.

So go now, and swing from your Pillars and your own interpretation of Qur'an! Leave the others to use their intellect and let them interpret it the way they feel comfortable with. We are not comfortable with stoning 13 year old rape victims. Instead, we would shelter them, and help them.

You Jahalyas have no heart really.

Africawala0000
Posts: 298
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Is Prophet Mohammad also referred to as "NOOR"

#293

Unread post by Africawala0000 » Wed Nov 19, 2008 8:15 pm

Anajmi,
znan,

You are quoting fabrications right? Since you are known to quote fabrications, you cannot be taken seriously.
So far we have seen that the only fabrications are coming from you, MF and Aarif.

Read my post to MF. Now, put your dimwit brain into use, and spin some ignorant remarks for which you are well-known. It makes no difference to us.

When Allah S.W.T. sent his word through Gabriel to the Prophet S.A.W., there was no book! And no Register. Book came after Othman! So go spin your nonsense to some Jahaliyas, like Aarif!

anajmi
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Re: Is Prophet Mohammad also referred to as "NOOR"

#294

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Nov 19, 2008 8:35 pm

If it had been left to the Ismailis we would never have had a book. Thank God for Hazrat Uthman!!

Africawala0000
Posts: 298
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Is Prophet Mohammad also referred to as "NOOR"

#295

Unread post by Africawala0000 » Wed Nov 19, 2008 8:45 pm

MF, Please see my remarks in color:
Leave the Muslim Ummah alone for a while. Why leave it alone? It is the most screwed up community in the world! Except for the Ismailis, Bohoras and Ithnas.We are dicussing Islam and its other aspects.You cannot talk about Islam and other aspects. As far as you are concerned, Islam starts with Allah's book, angels, etc. and ends with 5 pillars. That is not Islam, it is a cult. Islam is very broad. It does not end, silly! with anything. It is continuous. Where did you get your education on Islam.

Many of Muslim Ummah are screwed upincluding you and your colhorts on this site bacause they are not following Islam but fake teachers including yourself including your Imam.Leave my Imam alone. His people are not screwed up like your people. Look at Ismailis all over the world and look at their contribution to humanity. That is Islam, brother, not what you practice. My Imam does not lead people who are roaming the deserts, it is your imam who is responsible for that and that is why you all are so screwed up.

Any comment on 36.12? You do not have enough brains to comment on it.See my comments. Then decide who has brains!

Take care. Go to toranot and "Charan Choo"
Only you can know this because you must be going to these people or some dargas! This is the first time I have heard of this.

anajmi
Posts: 13508
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Is Prophet Mohammad also referred to as "NOOR"

#296

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Nov 19, 2008 8:56 pm

Don't you think if Allah wanted to refer to a book, he would have said "kitab"
Don't know about the Ismaili quran but this is what our quran, a book, says

This is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah;
"kitab" mentioned over here. No manifest Imam.

Do ye enjoin right conduct on the people, and forget (To practise it) yourselves, and yet ye study the Scripture? Will ye not understand?
"kitab" mentioned over here. No manifest Imam.

And remember We gave Moses the Scripture and the Criterion (Between right and wrong): There was a chance for you to be guided aright.
"kitab" mentioned over here. No manifest Imam.

And there are among them illiterates, who know not the Book, but (see therein their own) desires, and they do nothing but conjecture.
"kitab" mentioned over here. No manifest Imam.

Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say:"This is from Allah," to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby.
"kitab" mentioned over here. No manifest Imam. This ayah refers to people like the Ismailis who create their own hidden books.

After this it is ye, the same people, who slay among yourselves, and banish a party of you from their homes; assist (Their enemies) against them, in guilt and rancour; and if they come to you as captives, ye ransom them, though it was not lawful for you to banish them. Then is it only a part of the Book that ye believe in, and do ye reject the rest? but what is the reward for those among you who behave like this but disgrace in this life?- and on the Day of Judgment they shall be consigned to the most grievous penalty. For Allah is not unmindful of what ye do.
"kitab" mentioned over here. No manifest Imam. This ayah also refers to Ismailis like znan who say that some part of the quran is ok and the rest is fabricated.

We gave Moses the Book and followed him up with a succession of messengers; We gave Jesus the son of Mary Clear (Signs) and strengthened him with the holy spirit. Is it that whenever there comes to you a messenger with what ye yourselves desire not, ye are puffed up with pride?- Some ye called impostors, and others ye slay!
"kitab" mentioned over here. No manifest Imam.

And when there comes to them a Book from Allah, confirming what is with them,- although from of old they had prayed for victory against those without Faith,- when there comes to them that which they (should) have recognised, they refuse to believe in it but the curse of Allah is on those without Faith.
"kitab" mentioned over here. No manifest Imam. This ayah also refers to people like the Ismailis who have refused to believe in this "kitab".

And when there came to them a messenger from Allah, confirming what was with them, a party of the people of the Book threw away the Book of Allah behind their backs, as if (it had been something) they did not know!
"kitab" mentioned over here. No manifest Imam. This ayah again refers to the Ismailis who have thrown this "kitab" behind their backs for a quran that needs to attend natures call.

Wow. In a few ayahs the quran that we have has pretty much blown away Ismailism. Alhumdulillah.

Africawala0000
Posts: 298
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Is Prophet Mohammad also referred to as "NOOR"

#297

Unread post by Africawala0000 » Wed Nov 19, 2008 8:57 pm

Anajmi,
If it had been left to the Ismailis we would never have had a book. Thank God for Hazrat Uthman!!
Did Uthman print a Register, clear book or book! When Allah S.W.T. sent his word, there was no book. So you have fabricated your own version of Imam to mean book! Sorry, that is Othman's version! Psssssst!

Had it been left to Ismailis, Islam would be glorious and not pathetic and screwed up. You have the book and yet you are Jahaliyas! However, Ismailis have the book and Manifest Imam who interprets the book to them. We don't need Yusuf Ali, Malik or shakir or Picthal. It is obvious we are following true Islam. What you are following is Jahaliyasm as dictated by Othman, who ran away from the side of the Prophet when he needed Othman most. He even did not participate in the Priophet's funeral. And you are proud of him! Tells us a lot about your mental status!

Africawala0000
Posts: 298
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Is Prophet Mohammad also referred to as "NOOR"

#298

Unread post by Africawala0000 » Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:00 pm

This is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah;
"kitab" mentioned over here. No manifest Imam.
Anajmi,

Well kitab is mentioned over there, but why, in Sura Yaseen is it mentioned Imam Mubeen and not Kitab Mubeen, Huh?

anajmi
Posts: 13508
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Is Prophet Mohammad also referred to as "NOOR"

#299

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:21 pm

Africawala,

You are referring to the fabricated quran. You shouldn't hang your hereafter on the interpretation of one ayah of the quran as against the interpretation of hundreds of ayahs. And that too from a fabricated quran written by Hazrat Uthman.

Besides, let us look at some translations of the ayah from the fabricated quran that you are referring to.

036.012
YUSUFALI: Verily We shall give life to the dead, and We record that which they send before and that which they leave behind, and of all things have We taken account in a clear Book (of evidence).
PICKTHAL: Lo! We it is Who bring the dead to life. We record that which they send before (them, and their footprints. And all things We have kept in a clear Register.
SHAKIR: Surely We give life to the dead, and We write down what they have sent before and their footprints, and We have recorded everything in a clear writing.
ARBERRY: Surely it is We who bring the dead to life and write down what they have forwarded and what they have left behind; everything We have numbered in a clear register.

Read a few ayahs above this ayah and what do you see?

Ya Sin wal quran -il - hakim.

quran full of wisdom

Ya Sin.
By the Qur'an, full of Wisdom,-
Thou art indeed one of the messengers,
On a Straight Way.
It is a Revelation sent down by (Him), the Exalted in Might, Most Merciful.
In order that thou mayest admonish a people, whose fathers had received no admonition, and who therefore remain heedless (of the Signs of Allah).
The Word is proved true against the greater part of them: for they do not believe.

Now to conclude from this that the it refers to Aga Khan is akin to me concluding that I am a descendent of Genghis Khan because we both have the letter "a", "n" and "i" in our names.
Manifest Imam who interprets the book to them.
More bull crap from the Ismailis. What book is the Manifest Imam interpreting if he himself is the book? A book that needs to shower in the morning and wear clothes to hide his privates?

jawanmardan
Posts: 398
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Is Prophet Mohammad also referred to as "NOOR"

#300

Unread post by jawanmardan » Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:52 pm

Aarif,

I'll attempt an answer to your questions, please note that I have no intention of proving your beliefs wrong, mearly to explain my religious convictions to another.
because this makes it crystal clear that the prophet was just following the orders of his master i.e. Allah.
Agreed.
Now read your above two qoutes. In one you are saying that the prophet's duty is to spread the Zahir message to the Ummah in the way he recieves it from Allah (if I am getting it right).
Divinely guided by God, he molds the sensible spiritual truths revealed to him into the Zahir, and adapts them, making them relevant to the society and people he must convey this message to.
In the second qoute you mention that he has a spiritual successor... Now the question is if the prophet has delivered the uncorrupted and complete message to the masses, he has documented it in Quran, which tells you everything about Islam, than why does he deem it neccessary to leave a spiritual successor???
Islam is unchanging, and any attempt to reconstruct Islamic "truths" is both illusionary and futile. Religion may not be changed but rather the human understanding of it, within this distinction lies the key of reconciling a fixed religion with a dynamic contemporary world. To meet the challenges of modernity Muslims must not seek to change their religion but reconcile their beliefs with the outside world (scientific, cultural, social etc).

This requires a conception of religion which accepts the inevitable change of human understanding of religion with changes in the outside world.

Religious Knowledge is one amongst many branches of human understanding, sciences, arts, etc. Religion is not divine simply because the nature of its subject matter is divine, anymore so than a scientific theory is absolute simply because its belongs within the realms of scientific knowledge.

The need of a contemporary spiritual leader to set the parameters of discussion and dialogue amongst individual believers becomes paramount in moving human understanding of religion forward, and to execute a reconciliation between religious truths, and the outside world, in so doing the faith becomes relevant to contemporary needs, and challenges. Further the spiritual leader is also a repository of the esoteric nature of religion since for our community religious objectives are not Paradise in the exoteric sense, but Marifat a spiritual gnosis.
Secondly as I have clearly mentioned above in this post that it is the right of Allah to decide who will get his noor or light. This is not in the hands of human beings.
Agreed, we believe that Nass is guided by a divine inspiration.
Can you explain this in the light of Quran? Because when you say that he assumes authority in spiritual sense, it does not make any sense. How can he assume authority?? Again my understanding is that only allah can decide upon the spiritual aspect of authority...
We believe that most will be satisfied with the zahir, but others will seek a spiritual and intellectual journey to the divine and move from Shariat to Tariqat to Haqiqat to achieve Marifat, the Imam I Zaman is a primarily intended for this purpose in addition to what I have outlined above.

Hope this explains a little more.