why am i an atheist by bhagat singh

[Humsafar]

Atheism is as much a belief as theism is. Both are ideas, products of the human mind. God, Truth, Reality - whatever label you want to give it - is beyond the human mind, neither the mind can conceive it nor the senses perceive it. Human capacities are limited, despite the advancement in science and technology we actually know very little compared to what we do not yet know. To defend or deny the existence of God is so much idle talk, for truth cannot be known through intellect or reasoning nor by someone else's revelation. True, the universe and life are ultimate mysteries, religions only attempt to explain them, which are again no more than concepts. One is no truer than the other. And faith makes no difference. Your faith may impell you to accept one religion against the other or no religion at all but still you're dealing with ideas and concepts not Truth. So what is Truth, then? As sages and mystics have reported since ancient times, reality is not out there in the external world but in here in the inner world. In other words you cannot know the truth outside of your "self". (Prophet Mohammed said as much.) And self can be reached only in silence, with an inward gaze. Religion and science (and although they have their uses) with their dogmas and arrogance only create so much noise. Search for truth is an inherently individual, lonely pursuit. Mass religion, the larger and more popular it is the farther it takes you for your real "self".

[anajmi]

Humsafar my friend, where have you been all this time. I missed you.

[Humsafar]

Anajmi, I have been around, just been too busy to contribute anything. Shocked to know that I was missed.

[anajmi]

Don't be. I am glad you are back. Now I hope that porus comes back so that I can send him back into exile.

[Humsafar]

Yes, we do need porus back, it's not the same without him. And don't you have any illusions about sending anybody into exile!!!!!

[profastian]

Haggi,

I am not sure what contradiction you are seeing in my statements. Evolution does not mean you evolved from monkeys. The quran says that every living thing was created from water. So if there is commonality in DNAs then that is nothing surprising. Besides, it simply goes to prove, that everything was created by the same Creator. So if you look at it from that angle, then, since everything was created by the same Creator, then we are all related in one way or another.

As far as the bible goes, I have already told you, I do not have to believe what it says. If science says that evidence proves that the earth is more than 6000 years old, then so be it. I actually don't care how old the earth is.

mutmaeen,

The quran does not say that the earth was created in six days and six nights. It uses the term "yaum". "Yaum" does not mean "day". It simply means a "period". The quran refers to judgement day as "Yaum-ul-Qiyamah" and we know that the day of judgement according to the prophet and the quran would be as long as 50,000 years. So, day and night as we understand it, is not relevant to the creation.

Science proved that humanity is more than 6000 years old. So how can Adam and Eve be the first humans?

[anajmi]

profastian,

Science taught in waez is not applicable.

[profastian]

profastian,

Science taught in waez is not applicable.

Not in waaz dude. Go to any reliable scientific website and read abt human fossils more than 6000 years old.

[Human]

^^^
This is what Wikipedia says based on "Human Evolution by The Smithsonian Institution's Human Origins Program". Human Origins Initiative. Smithsonian Institution. Retrieved 2010-08-30.

Anatomically modern humans originated in Africa about 200,000 years ago, reaching full behavioral modernity around 50,000 years ago

Anatomically modern humans first appear in the fossil record in Africa about 195,000 years ago, and studies of molecular biology give evidence that the approximate time of divergence from the common ancestor of all modern human populations was 200,000 years ago

I wonder why there was no official word of god before 1500 years? Or if you were to consider the old testament, then before 6000 years. What about the 194,000 years before?

[Human]

As evolutionists might have you believe, Islam does not deny evolution. I absolutely believe in evolution. I just do not believe that monkeys, over a period of time, have evolved into humans. Well, at least not all the humans

You can't say you believe in evolution if you don't accept basic evolutionary science concepts like the one you're refuting above. Here are some snippets from Wikipedia:

Evolution
Main article: Human evolution
Further information: Anthropology, Homo (genus), and Timeline of human evolution
Plesiadapis
Craniums
1. Gorilla 2. Australopithecus 3. Homo erectus 4. Neanderthal (La Chapelle aux Saints) 5. Steinheim Skull 6. Euhominid



Scientific study of human evolution is concerned, primarily, with the development of the genus Homo, but usually involves studying other hominids and hominines as well, such as Australopithecus. "Modern humans" are defined as the Homo sapiens species, of which the only extant subspecies is known as Homo sapiens sapiens. Homo sapiens idaltu (roughly translated as "elder wise human"), the other known subspecies, is now extinct.[17] Homo neanderthalensis, which became extinct 30,000 years ago, has sometimes been classified as a subspecies, "Homo sapiens neanderthalensis"; genetic studies now suggest that the functional DNA of modern humans and Neanderthals diverged 500,000 years ago.[18] More recent genetics suggest that modern humans mated with "at least two groups" of ancient humans: Neanderthals and Denisovans.[19] Nonetheless, the discovered specimens of the Homo rhodesiensis species have been classified by some as a subspecies, but this classification is not widely accepted.

Anatomically modern humans first appear in the fossil record in Africa about 195,000 years ago, and studies of molecular biology give evidence that the approximate time of divergence from the common ancestor of all modern human populations was 200,000 years ago.[20][21][22][23][24] The broad study of African genetic diversity headed by Dr. Sarah Tishkoff found the San people to express the greatest genetic diversity among the 113 distinct populations sampled, making them one of 14 "ancestral population clusters". The research also located the origin of modern human migration in south-western Africa, near the coastal border of Namibia and Angola.[25]

The evolutionary history of primates can be traced back 65 million years. Primates are one of the oldest of all surviving placental mammal groups. The oldest known primate-like mammal species (those of the genus Plesiadapis) come from North America, but inhabited Eurasia and Africa on a wide scale during the tropical conditions of the Paleocene and Eocene. Molecular evidence suggests that the last common ancestor between humans and the remaining great apes diverged 4–8 million years ago.[citation needed]

The orangutans were the first group to split from the line leading to the humans, then gorillas followed by chimpanzees (genus Pan). The functional portion of human DNA is approximately 98.4% identical to that of chimpanzees when comparing single-nucleotide polymorphisms (see human evolutionary genetics). Some studies put that as low as 94%. Therefore, the closest living relatives of humans are gorillas and chimpanzees, as they share a relatively recent common ancestor.[26]

Humans are probably most closely related to two chimpanzee species: the common chimpanzee and the bonobo.[26] Full genome sequencing has resulted in the conclusion that "after 6.5 [million] years of separate evolution, the differences between chimpanzee and human are ten times greater than those between two unrelated people and ten times less than those between rats and mice".[attribution needed] Current estimates of suggested concurrence between functional human and chimpanzee DNA sequences range between 95% and 99%.[27][28][29][30] Early estimates indicated that the human lineage may have diverged from that of chimpanzees about five million years ago, and from that of gorillas about eight million years ago. However, a hominid skull discovered in Chad in 2001, classified as Sahelanthropus tchadensis, is approximately seven million years old, and may be evidence of an earlier divergence.[31]

Human evolution is characterized by a number of important changes—morphological, developmental, physiological, and behavioral—that have taken place since the split between the last common ancestor of humans and chimpanzees. The first major morphological change was the evolution of a bipedal locomotor adaptation from an arboreal or semi-arboreal one,[32] with all its attendant adaptations (a valgus knee, low intermembral index (long legs relative to the arms), reduced upper-body strength).

The human species developed a much larger brain than that of other primates – typically 1,400 cm3 (85 cu in) in modern humans, over twice the size of that of a chimpanzee or gorilla. The pattern of human postnatal brain growth differs from that of other apes (heterochrony), and allows for extended periods of social learning and language acquisition in juvenile humans. Physical anthropologists argue that the differences between the structure of human brains and those of other apes are even more significant than their differences in size.[33][34]

Other significant morphological changes included the evolution of a power and precision grip,[35] a reduced masticatory system, a reduction of the canine tooth, and the descent of the larynx and hyoid bone, making speech possible. An important physiological change in humans was the evolution of hidden estrus, or concealed ovulation, which may have coincided with the evolution of important behavioral changes, such as pair bonding. Another significant behavioral change was the development of material culture, with human-made objects becoming increasingly common and diversified over time. The relationship between all these changes is the subject of ongoing debate.[36][37]

The forces of natural selection have continued to operate on human populations, with evidence that certain regions of the genome display directional selection in the past 15,000 years.[38]

[Human]

Some more reading for those who claim, God made Adam and Eve appear suddenly out of thin air
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_o ... _evolution

[anajmi]

God didn't make Adam and Eve out of thin air, but he definitely made you out of a monkey eh!!

[Human]

God didn't make Adam and Eve out of thin air, but he definitely made you out of a monkey eh!!

Is that all you have? I thought a highly knowledgeable intellectual like you will come up with something better to answer my questions. Rather than that, you engage in personal attacks and mockery.
Human ancestors were apes, not monkeys. Scientifically there's a lot of difference between apes and monkeys. We all evolved from hominidae including Adam and Eve (if they ever existed that is!)

[Human]

I wonder why there was no official word of god before 1500 years? Or if you were to consider the old testament, then before 6000 years. What about the 194,000 years before?

There's an amazing silence on this thread. Am I to believe that there are no logical answers to my questions?

[ghulam muhammed]

Human wrote:
I wonder why there was no official word of god before 1500 years? Or if you were to consider the old testament, then before 6000 years. What about the 194,000 years before?

My 2 cents :

I dont think that there is any written material found which dates back to more then 6000 years, hence it is possible that there could have been a concept of God and the evidence to corraborate the same is not available as of now. As a Muslim the Holy Quran is enough for us which mentions the advent of Prophet Adam, Nuh etc who were sent as messengers thousands of years ago which means that the concept of God was surely there !!

[Human]

^^^
Thanks GM, your answer is heaps more sensible than certain other self proclaimed know all people on this forum. I have always wondered a few more things, I'll ask them now:
1. If Adam, Nuh, Ibrahim, Musa and Isa were Allah's messengers and were sent to the world to spread the word of Allah, why did they start their own religions rather than Islam? Why did the likes of Musa and Isa have their own religious books that stand tall even today, like Mohammed had Quran later on.
2. If the word is coming from the same supreme being, shouldn't it be the same or consistent throughout the messengers? If Islam is what Allah wants us to practice and the word or Quran is what we are supposed to go by, then why other equally sophisticated pieces of ancient texts? (old and new testament, etc)

[ghulam muhammed]

Bro human,

The religion of EVERY Prophet was only Islam and the words 'christianity', judaism' etc are alien to their teachings. It so happens that Islam was preached since Adam (a.s.) and thru passage of time and development it was sent in a more refined form and the final and most refined version without any flaws was conveyed by our last Prophet (s.a.w.). Every Prophet had conveyed the one and only message which was to worship One God with full submission, hence everyone of them were against idol worship and multiple gods.

[humanbeing]

Muslim says, everything was “Islam” right from start
Christian says, everything was “Christianity” right from start
Jewish says, everything was “Judaism” right from start
Hindu says, everything was “Hinduism” right from start

We are living in a world of our own justifications.

[ghulam muhammed]

Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism are not religious terms in the true sense as none of their leaders had professed faith bearing the said names. The present day hindus who claim to practice hinduism are also totally wrong because the word 'hinduism' was derived from 'Indus', a river which flows in India, the name of their religion is 'Sanatan dharm' or as some hindu saints say it is 'Vedic dharm' as their religion is based on their holy book 'Vedas'. In a technical sense, all sikhs, christians, parsis and muslims living in India are hindus because hindus per se is not a religious term, it is a geographical term !!

[humanbeing]

Hi GM

I understand the technicality of religious terms and how its said, which you explained correctly. But what I m trying to say is :

“Shabdo mein Kya rakha hai… Bhaavnaao ko Samjho”

Everyone is promoting their set of beliefs summarized under such religious names as eternal since advent of humanity or even before then that !

[anajmi]

And why wouldn't everyone do that? That is precisely what I expect from every staunch believer in his or her religion. A person with an open mind needs to look at all the options and figure out for himself which might be the truth. If you are unconvinced, then stay an atheist.