What is the purpose of religion?

Given modern distractions, the need to understand Islam better has never been more urgent. Through this forum we can share ideas and hopefully promote the true spirit of Islam which calls for peace, justice, tolerance, inclusiveness and diversity.
anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: What is the purpose of religion?

#91

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Mar 08, 2010 8:28 pm

Human
They believe in good. The questions you asked, do not make sense for them as they don't care about those. All they care is serving others and spreading good.
We are talking about religion and God and whether you need religion to believe in God or whether you can "find" God with a magic key. I am not interested in whether you can be good or not. Even an animal is good to members of its own species. Well, most are anyways.

Now the questions you asked, make perfect sense. Here are my answers.
Do you believe your religion is the ultimate truth?
Yes
Do you believe your religion is the only one that leads to God?
Yes
Why do you think so?
Long explanation. It has something to do with the quran, the sunnah and my belief.
Why are there so many religions in the world if there's only one leading to the ultimate truth?
Don't know. I didn't create them. People have free will. They believe in what they like and end up creating their own versions of religion. People discover their own "truths". Each one finds his or her own "self realizations" and we have many religions. Now you might say, that is how Islam might've come about. Then I would go back to the previous answer.
If your religion says God has plans for all humans then why do humans have free will to decide what they do?
I didn't say my religion has plans for all humans. I am just asking the other people if their God has any plans for all humans. By the way, my religion also has a plan for all humans. Some go to heaven and some will go to hell.
Why are there poor and suffering in the religion you follow?
It is a test from God. The test of patience for the poor and the test of character of rich in helping those that need help.
Why are there so many criminals committing crimes in the name of religion?
Misunderstanding of religion.
If religion shows such a path, why follow religion?
It doesn't. Otherwise, I and a 1.47 billion others would be criminals.

Fatwa Banker
Posts: 697
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:01 am

Re: What is the purpose of religion?

#92

Unread post by Fatwa Banker » Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:43 pm

anajmi wrote:I am not interested in whether you can be good or not
That pretty much sums up the discussion. The easy answer is that the purpose of religion is to follow it.

Thai
Posts: 182
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2005 4:01 am

Re: What is the purpose of religion?

#93

Unread post by Thai » Mon Mar 08, 2010 11:28 pm

People do not fail religion---It is religion that fails people-----there may be comfort in such a thought. It is so much more pleasant to evade responsibility by taking the "blame" away from "self" and putting it onto something else--either "the other" or "religion" or God or what have you.....

@ Humsafar
Thankyou for an interesting conversation.
It seems to me, our definition of "religion" is different---in that, In Icecream terms---you might define it as "one scoop" while I would define it as a "sundea"---Nevertheless I am glad for the opportunity to learn and share.

@Aarif
More bad than good-------interesting point. One I would agree with......
Those who have been interested in the phenomenon of holocaust/genocide wonder how it is that human beings can so loose sense that they would be able to do horrible things to their neighbors/friends and fellow countrymen. They call it "being desensitized"---that is, these cruelties are gradual and escalate over a period of time so that the "shock value" is lessened (or so they say). Much of it starts with a process termed "dehumanizing the other" ---that is, the idea that someone else is not deserving of the same respect, justice, compassion because they are "different" and therefore inferior.
A Muslim scholar used the term "Iblisi Logic"(Satanic Logic) ---after the story of Prophet Adam(pbuh) and Iblis in the Quran. Iblis tells God he cannot bow down to Adam(pbuh) because he is made of fire and Adam(pbuh) is made of clay--and arbitrary makes the value judgement that fire is "superior" to clay, therefore he is superior to Adam(pbuh).
Iblisi Logic is very tempting because it gives us the illusion of specialness, of being better---and belonging to an exclusive club. Much of the worlds divisions today are based on Iblisi logic---the group of 20 (G20), the developed countries versus the developing....lenders vs borrowers....etc
Therefore we must ask the question---how do we define this word "progress"? While we may find the illusion of technological "progress", of what actual good is it if it is not accompanied by a corresponding spiritual progress?

Thai
Posts: 182
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2005 4:01 am

Re: What is the purpose of religion?

#94

Unread post by Thai » Mon Mar 08, 2010 11:50 pm

Iblisi Logic = I deserve more "X" beause I am better.......
X = power, respect, money, luxury, access to resources....etc

The truth is that we deserve only that which God wills/Trusts in our care.......

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: What is the purpose of religion?

#95

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Mar 08, 2010 11:55 pm

Human,
He asked me "WHY?" and I did not have an answer for him at that time.
Next time you meet someone like that, you should tell them that you do not believe in Islam and do not know what Islam teaches and have the same questions as he does. It is not an unlucky coincidence. Muslims are involved because others want what muslims have and muslims aren't afraid to fight back, doesn't matter if you are a super power or a duper power.

Human
Posts: 382
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:24 am

Re: What is the purpose of religion?

#96

Unread post by Human » Tue Mar 09, 2010 12:13 am

anajmi wrote:Human,
He asked me "WHY?" and I did not have an answer for him at that time.
Next time you meet someone like that, you should tell them that you do not believe in Islam and do not know what Islam teaches and have the same questions as he does. It is not an unlucky coincidence. Muslims are involved because others want what muslims have and muslims aren't afraid to fight back, doesn't matter if you are a super power or a duper power.
anajmi, but why should I tell them that? I do believe in Islam and practice the principles. Why should I hide it? The answer you gave works fine with me since I'm a muslim and everything's good. But the guy I was speaking to, his family was killed including very young children and he lost an eye and has a permanent problem in his left leg. He used to be a professional tae-kwan-do martial artist. To give your response to someone like him wouldn't work fine. He did not want what islam has to offer. He just lived his life nicely, helped the poor, the aged. Then what did he do to deserve the brutality?
You might next suggest me to change my name as well. But I won't be telling or supporting lies, I'm a muslim and a dawoodi bohra. That fact remains and will never change. You just speak from a perspective where muslims are victims when you say that others want what muslims have and muslims fight back. What about when muslims are the cause of carnage on other innocent people? You'd find something in the newspapers everyday. Here's one from today: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100308/ap_ ... a_violence

Also one of the comments on there which reads:Just another example of how 'wonderful' religion is. The big question is: "Who will god kill next?"

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: What is the purpose of religion?

#97

Unread post by anajmi » Tue Mar 09, 2010 12:34 am

Then what did he do to deserve the brutality?
It's a pity we do not ask the same question about the millions who have been crippled and maimed in Iraq or in Palestine. He might not have done anything to deserve it, but neither did the hundreds of thousands that died in hiroshima and nagasaki. Millions die in wars created by egos and greed. None of them did anything to deserve. To blame God and religion for the plight of one man is stretching it a bit.

You say you believe in religion and then you blame that same religion for the acts of those who act in the exact opposite manner as you would. What can I say to that? Islam doesn't allow carnage on innocent people. Even if every muslim on earth started killing innocents in the name of Islam, Islam is still not at fault because that is not what Islam teaches.
Just another example of how 'wonderful' religion is. The big question is: "Who will god kill next?"
That is what ignorant people would say. If there was no religion on earth, humans would still find reasons to kill each other. Oil and Natural gas are examples.

Human
Posts: 382
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:24 am

Re: What is the purpose of religion?

#98

Unread post by Human » Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:23 am

^
Ok, I agree that Islam is not at fault. But its the stereotyping that gets fingers pointed at normal people like you and me. All in all islam has had too much negative publicity and the reason is because of all the terror groups that use Islam for their own hatred agenda and recruitment.

I wanted to ask another question as well, would you claim that Islam is the only way to find God?

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: What is the purpose of religion?

#99

Unread post by anajmi » Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:19 am

But its the stereotyping that gets fingers pointed at normal people like you and me.
There is nothing you can do about that except educate yourself about Islam and then educate others when an opportunity presents itself.
I wanted to ask another question as well, would you claim that Islam is the only way to find God?
I am not sure what you mean by "find" God. Every person on earth whether a muslim or not will find God eventually (after they die I mean). Faith is the key. No one is going to "find" God till they die.

Aarif
Posts: 1426
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:01 am

Re: What is the purpose of religion?

#100

Unread post by Aarif » Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:20 pm

Iblisi Logic = I deserve more "X" beause I am better.......
X = power, respect, money, luxury, access to resources....etc
Unfortunately this Iblisi logic has become a way of life today. Going by this logic we can equate power, respect, money, luxury, access to resources as our prime weaknesses because these are precisely the reasons for our downfall. Also, there is not a single person in this world who does not want to have the items equated to X. If he says NO he is a liar. Hence, can we conclude that the world is drifting towards Iblisi path? If that is so than our race can be equated to Iblis rather than Adam. And this brings me to my first question which is why are we what we are? Where did we go wrong?

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: What is the purpose of religion?

#101

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:45 pm

Human wrote:But its the stereotyping that gets fingers pointed at normal people like you and me. All in all islam has had too much negative publicity and the reason is because of all the terror groups that use Islam for their own hatred agenda and recruitment.
Bro Human,

I dont deny that the brickbats which Islam as a religion recieves day in and day out is partially due to some terror groups who engage in bloodshed and inhuman activities in the name of religion. But what most people forget is that it is the media which nails certain fixed opinions on people's minds which is a part of their larger agenda. We see what the media wants to show us and not what we want to see.

Are you aware that worldwide, media is mostly controlled by the jews and hence the news which is broadcasted are mostly as per their whims. I produce below excerpts of an article written by an american, Mr.Texas Marrs :


"Who runs America? Is it the people, our politicians, or the media? We know that "the people" is not the answer, because the people are opposed to the Iraq War, the police state, globalism, a North American Union, the continuing invasion of illegal immigrants, abortion, homosexuality, ad infinitum. But the media could care less what the people want. They label the average American as bigoted, racist and stupid.

The politicians follow the lead of the media. Any politician who does not is blacklisted, smeared, and defamed by the media. All who go along with the socialist/fascist agenda of the media become "media darlings" and are promoted to stardom on TV and in newsmagazines and newspapers.

So, if the media is king, then who is it that runs the media? Who is the power behind the press throne? That, too, is easy to discover. Answer: Jews! Frank Feltner, a scholar of media, recently found that a staggering 96% of all the world's media corporations are owned by wealthy Zionist Jews. CBS, ABC, NBC, Fox—wherever you turn your TV dial, you're watching a Zionist propaganda media operation. On a recent night, Tim Russert, host of Meet the Press, had three Senators on his program, supposedly to tell America what the Senate is up to. The three: Schumer, Feinstein, and Boxer—were all Jews

This is typical. Watch TV news on any given night and check out the names of the talking heads. Here's a list of names from a recent evening—think of it, just one evening: Berger, Emmanuel, Koppel, Greenspan, Franken, Tuchman, King, Albright, Rubin, Blitzer, Schuster, Cohen...Jew, Jew, Jew.

Sumner Redstone (real name: Rothstein) is just one of the Zionist Jews who run America through the media. Billionaire Rothstein owns Viacom, Paramount Pictures, MTV, Showtime, VH1, Nickelodeon, and more. His holdings are second only to those of fellow Zionist radical, Rupert Murdoch. Rothstein’s father made his fortune in the liquor industry.

Edgar Bronfman, Jr., heir to the Seagrams Whiskey empire, has now branched out into media. He runs Universal Studios, Polygram Records, Warner Music, and a lion’s share of TimeWarner and Vivendi.

Rush Limbaugh is a crypto-Jew and a reputed homosexual. He visited Israel with his Jewish rabbi and lives in a plush $24 million estate in a ritzy Jewish enclave in Palm Beach, Florida. Naturally, "El Rushmo" is an ardent Jewish crazy who advocates more and more war in the Middle East.

It's no surprise, then, that the opinion you get on the networks is uniformly anti-Constitution, pro-Israel, anti-Palestinian, pro-Jew, pro-liberal, pro-socialist, pro-homosexual, pro-abortion, etc., etc. Get the picture? They're telling you and me what to think and how to act, and no opposing views are allowed. When they are, the person espousing the opposite view is screamed at, lied about, called a "fringe crazy," a "conspiracy theorist," a "lunatic," or otherwise derided and marginalized.

They own Newsweek, Time, and U.S. News & World Report. They have put their Jewish lackeys—Rush Limbaugh and others—into slots on talk radio, and they are the Masters of Hollywood. Incredibly, through manipulation, favoritism, and corrupt dealings, they are also now kings of the computer world and internet. Bill Gates of Microsoft?—yep, Jew. Michael Dell of Dell Computers? Yes, Jew. The owners of Time Warner, Google, Yahoo? Uh-huh—Jewish.

I have now completed my fact-filled two-hour series, Printing Lies, Spreading Propaganda—The Zionist Media and The Highjacking of History and Truth. Friends, you must obtain this information. Then you'll understand exactly how our lying and deceitful politicians manage the news, stage world events, and coverup their bloody atrocities and money-grabbing larcenies. The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion long ago detailed the Zionist Jew scheme to buy up the media and use it to their greedy advantage. And they've followed this dastardly plan to the letter.

Human
Posts: 382
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:24 am

Re: What is the purpose of religion?

#102

Unread post by Human » Tue Mar 09, 2010 6:32 pm

^
Thanks for posting this GM. A very good article indeed!

Human
Posts: 382
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:24 am

Re: What is the purpose of religion?

#103

Unread post by Human » Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:23 pm

anajmi wrote: Why are there so many religions in the world if there's only one leading to the ultimate truth?
Don't know. I didn't create them. People have free will. They believe in what they like and end up creating their own versions of religion. People discover their own "truths". Each one finds his or her own "self realizations" and we have many religions. Now you might say, that is how Islam might've come about. Then I would go back to the previous answer.
anajmi, The human race i.e. homo sapiens sapiens which is the modern form of humans dates back to atleast 200,000 years. And Islam is the youngest of the major religions in the world. There were prophets/people of prominence before Prophet Mohammed (SAW): Adam, Noah, Ebrahim, Moses, Jesus. I am just wondering, if those were God's appointed prophets or special people who had to spread goodness to the world and show human race the right path, then why didn't they preach Islam from the very beginning?

Thai
Posts: 182
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2005 4:01 am

Re: What is the purpose of religion?

#104

Unread post by Thai » Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:08 pm

@ human, anajmi
I hope you don't mind if I join in the conversation
When questions are asked of Muslims by those who do not know Islam, it is wise to examine closely the assumptions on which these questions are based because most often---these assumptions are "myth".
Much of the "Trouble" we see today, has its root cause in the "divide and rule" policies of the "colonizers"---see Rwanda and the atrocities of the Tutsi'/Hutu (an artificial racial seperation caused by colonial policy of divide and rule----and this pattern is repeated elsewhere in the world). Many countries are still dealing with the aftermath caused by the mess created by the colonizers. However, that is not all, much of the bloodshed has also been caused by these same people----World War 1 and 2. (The rest of the "world" had to join into a dispute that was not theirs---simply because they were colonized)---And take a look at the "rest of the world"---and you will see, 60% of Muslims live in Asia, 20% in Africa and 15% in the Middle East---ofcourse Muslims were effected. When Europe gave up on its colonizing ways, the U.S. stepped in. It's foreign policy was not so much based on divide and rule, rather, it was based on supporting corrupt and oppressive "puppet" leaders/governments. (not to mention, the various U.S. led wars, both proxy and direct)This caused what some "experts" call the "Blowback"(---an explosive situation) There are many labels for the people who are the cause of the trouble---they call themselves "Secular democracies", "Judeo-Christians" or the "West". This does not in any way mean that there is no blame on us Muslims----We must also take responsibilty for our share of the problems.....and there are plenty......(The assumption that the "West" is to blame for all the "trouble" is just as much "myth" as the one that says Muslims are to blame for all the trouble)

Judaism and Christianity were/are based on the "Chosen People" idea----The notion that because they are "chosen"/special---God favors them. When our actions are based on "false assumptions"/beliefs----we fall into error.

Thai
Posts: 182
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2005 4:01 am

Re: What is the purpose of religion?

#105

Unread post by Thai » Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:32 pm

@Aarif
Iblisi Logic-----
In Islam, the pursuit of happiness is not forbidden----It is not so much that we must annihilate the ego, rather, we must balance it in order to achieve harmony. Therefore, a reasonable amount of comforts and pleasures are part of our existence and should be considered blessings. Iblisi Logic is about excess. The justification that they "deserve" the excess because they are superior, better, MORE deserving...etc

Human nature-----
No, it is possible we will not remain in this state because the Iblisi path, while tempting, is against the inherent "goodness" of human nature. It creates a spiritual hole and many try to fill this hole with more excess----food, luxury, pride...etc-----but the more they try to fill it, the bigger the hole gets until they are exhausted. People who feel such burnout---try to find another way/path to live.

Where did we go wrong----
My personal opinion is that we forgot the concept of "responsibility" --that is, the illussion of our technological success seduced us into thinking we were "special"---maybe even invincible----What use did we have for God when we ourselves could create? We forgot that ALL knowledge comes from God and with that blessing comes the responsiblity to use it for the benefit of all of God's creations. We are the caretakers of his creation---and so far, we have failed misreably to remember that........

Fatwa Banker
Posts: 697
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:01 am

Re: What is the purpose of religion?

#106

Unread post by Fatwa Banker » Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:36 pm

Blame it on the Jews.

As long as one can't have a discussion about Islam without blaming it on someone else (aka "Victim Mentality"), Islam will continue to regress.

Thai
Posts: 182
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2005 4:01 am

Re: What is the purpose of religion?

#107

Unread post by Thai » Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:00 pm

@ GM
There is also---what some call---the "unholy alliance" between Zionism and Evangelical Christians----they have some crazy apocalyptic eschatology that claims Jesus(pbuh) will come and they will be transported to heaven ("raptured")----there is much support among these Christians for Zionism because of that. (Ironically, they also believe all the Jews will die a horrible death or some such......)

Jew-bashing has always been a favourite pastime of Christians (see Christian history--both Catholic and Protestant)----I think we Muslims should be very careful about willy nilly buying into strange Chrisitian ideas........Not all Jews are Zionists.........

Fatwa Banker
Posts: 697
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:01 am

Re: What is the purpose of religion?

#108

Unread post by Fatwa Banker » Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:43 pm

Oh, so now Jew bashing is the Christian's fault....

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: What is the purpose of religion?

#109

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:00 am

Actually, jews have been bashed in the quran just as much as farts have been.

And yes it is the jews fault. If you don't believe me, ask Mel Gibson. The only difference is that Muslims don't have to be drunk to bash them and they won't grovel at their feet in the morning.
then why didn't they preach Islam from the very beginning?
Human,

This is where reading of the quran in a language you understand would help. According to the quran, all the prophets you mentioned, only taught Islam and no other religion. They were all prophets of the same God and brought the same message. I might have to quote a few hundred ayahs of the quran so I will skip that as there are many translations available on the internet.

Aarif
Posts: 1426
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:01 am

Re: What is the purpose of religion?

#110

Unread post by Aarif » Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:07 pm

Thai,

Basic human nature is to strive for more always. The theory of drawing the line is a myth. Because the inherent greed is the basic nature of human beings. We always want more. If you have one car you want another one. If you have one house you want another one. And remember this is the cause of all the problems and strifes. This has created a huge divide between the Have's and the Have not's. Also, religion itself breeds superiority complex in humans. Mine is better than yours.. Every person beleives that his/her religion is the supreme one and only path that will lead to salvation. This is another reason for chaos. Earlier I had mentioned that religion makes sense if and only if kept at each to his own level. Once, we start forcing things on others it becomes a problem. Hence, what you say only makes sense theoretically. The practical world is miles apart from this pseudo truth... Hence, my question still remains why we were created in such a way that is leading us to self destruction?

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: What is the purpose of religion?

#111

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:17 pm

Aarif,

Maybe you should consider the possibility that self destruction was the goal. The only good thing is that not all of us will be responsible.

Aarif
Posts: 1426
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:01 am

Re: What is the purpose of religion?

#112

Unread post by Aarif » Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:53 pm

Maybe you should consider the possibility that self destruction was the goal.
That's a real good one Anajmi.. I was trying to reach at this a little later... In fact the Hindus do beleive that Brahma created the universe and Shiva will destroy it. And that both of them are gods of equal status i.e. destruction is as important as creation. I agree with you that maybe this self-destruction is the end goal. The only thing that bothers me is the infinite in-between suffering that mankind is going through from thousands of years...

Humsafar
Posts: 2516
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: What is the purpose of religion?

#113

Unread post by Humsafar » Wed Mar 10, 2010 4:24 pm

Aarif, destruction and creation are part of the divine cycle. If there's suffering there's happiness too. One cannot exist without the other. For every ying there is a yang. Humans are flawed, but they are evolving. There's still hope - we will get it right in a few millions years. Or maybe more. Who knows?

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: What is the purpose of religion?

#114

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:15 pm

I believe that the time to complete self destruction of humans decreases exponentially with human evolution. To avoid self destruction, humans will have to de-evolve into apes.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: What is the purpose of religion?

#115

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:32 pm

Human wrote:Thanks for posting this GM. A very good article indeed!
Bro Human,

Thanks a lot. While on the subject of media exposure, how many times do we see the condemnation of terror by leading muslim personals being given the coverage the way terrorist acts are publicised ? Recently a leading muslim cleric of UK came out strongly against muslim terrorists but his speech hardly recieved the coverage it deserved. Below are excerpts of his speech:

LONDON – One of the influential Muslim "scholars" in Britain has issued a fatwa banning terror attacks and bombings, insisting that there is no justification for terror acts in the name of Islam.

At a press conference attended by the London officials, police, lawmakers and leaders of organizations, Muhammad Tahir al-Qadri said that the acts cause one to be out of his faith (Islam- ed.)

"They can't claim that their suicide bombings are martyrdom operations and that they become the heroes of the Muslim Ummah. No, they become heroes of hellfire, and they are leading towards the hellfire," he claimed.

In his 600-page decree, the founder of the internationally popular Minhaj-ul-Quran movement said there was no place for martyrdom through acts of terror and that such acts had nothing to do with jihad.

The scholar ruled out any excuses or pretexts for justifying acts of terror in supposed efforts to "convert an evil into good."

"Terrorism is terrorism," Qadri insisted. "Violence is violence and it has no place in Islamic teaching and no justification can be provided for it, or any kind of excuses or ifs or buts."

He reiterated that Islam is a religion of peace that promotes beauty, "betterment," goodness and "negates all form of mischief and strife."

Dr. Thahir Qadri, 59 years, is a renown ulama for his knowledge of tasawwuf. He had written around 350 books about Islam. His group, the Minhaj-ul-Quran, was formed in Lahore, Pakistan in 1980 as a non-political, non-sectarian, and non- governmental organization (NGO). The Minhajul Quran was formed for the purpose of reviving Al-Qur'an and Sunnah in the modern and moderate life.

Aarif
Posts: 1426
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:01 am

Re: What is the purpose of religion?

#116

Unread post by Aarif » Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:09 pm

For every ying there is a yang.
Actually for every one ying there are 100 yangs
Humans are flawed, but they are evolving. There's still hope - we will get it right in a few millions years. Or maybe more
I am doubtful whether human race will survive that long... We might become extinct before evolving completely. We are too foolish to last that long...

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: What is the purpose of religion?

#117

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:38 pm

On a lighter note herein below is a conversation between a student and a professor of philosphy :-

An atheist professor of philosophy speaks to his class on the problem Science has with God, The Almighty.


He asks one of his new students to stand and.....

Prof: So you believe in God?

Student: Absolutely, sir.


Prof: Is God good?

Student: Sure.

Prof: Is God all-powerful?

Student: Yes.


Prof: My brother died of cancer even though he prayed to God to heal him.
Most of us would attempt to help others who are ill. But God didn't. How is this God good then? Hmm? (Student is silent.)


Prof: You can't answer, can you? Let's start again, young fellow. Is God good?

Student: Yes.


Prof: Is Satan good?

Student: No.


Prof: Where does Satan come from?

Student: From...God.. .


Prof: That's right. Tell me son, is there evil in this world?

Student: Yes.


Prof: Evil is everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything. Correct?

Student: Yes.


Prof: So who created evil?

(Student does not answer.)



Prof: Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things exist in the world, don't they?

Student: Yes, sir.



Prof: So, who created them?

(Student has no answer.)



Prof: Science says you have 5 senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Tell me, son...Have you ever seen God?

Student: No, sir.



Prof: Tell us if you have ever heard your God?

Student: No, sir.


Prof: Have you ever felt your God, tasted your God, smelt your God? Have you ever had any sensory perception of God for that matter?

Student: No, sir. I'm afraid I haven't.



Prof: Yet you still believe in Him?

Student: Yes.



Prof: According to empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your GOD doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?

Student: Nothing. I only have my faith.



Prof: Yes. Faith. And that is the problem science has.



Student: Professor, is there such a thing as heat?

Prof: Yes.



Student: And is there such a thing as cold?

Prof: Yes.



Student: No sir. There isn't.

(The lecture theatre becomes very quiet with this turn of events.)


Student: Sir, you can have lots of heat, even more heat, superheat, mega heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat. But we don't have anything called cold. We can hit 458 degrees below zero which is no heat,


But we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold. Cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold.

Heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it.

(There is pin-drop silence in the lecture theatre.)


Student: What about darkness, Professor? Is there such a thing as darkness?

Prof: Yes. What is night if there isn't darkness?



Student: You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light....But if you have no light constantly, you have nothing and its called darkness, isn't it? In reality, darkness isn't.

If it were you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you?

Prof: So what is the point you are making, young man?

Student: Sir, my point is your philosophical premise is flawed.

Prof: Flawed? Can you explain how?



Student: Sir, you are working on the premise of duality. You argue there is life and then there is death, a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure.

Sir, science can't even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one.

To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life: just the absence of it. Now tell me, Professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?


Prof: If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, yes, of course, I do.

Student: Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?

(The Professor shakes his head with a smile, beginning to realize where the argument is going.)


Student: Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavour, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you not a scientist but a preacher?

(The class is in uproar.)


Student: Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the Professor's brain?

(The class breaks out into laughter.)


Student: Is there anyone here who has ever heard the Professor's brain, felt it, touched or smelt it? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, sir.

With all due respect, sir, how do we then trust your lectures, sir?

(The room is silent. The professor stares at the student, his face unfathomable. )

Prof: I guess you'll have to take them on faith, son.


Student: That is it sir... The link between man & god is FAITH.

That is all that keeps things moving & alive....... ......... ..

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4609
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: What is the purpose of religion?

#118

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:24 pm

anajmi wrote:
the day that you learn to give up your ego, that day you will realise god.
I am not sure if that means anything. What does "giving up your ego" mean? Do I need to stop posting on this board to give up my ego? Do I have to not argue with anyone to give up my ego? Do I just keep my faith to myself and not try to share it with anyone or talk to anyone and leave everyone to their own selves, to be able to give up my ego? What the heck does it mean? And then what will happen? What is "realize god"? Give me an example.
Islam demands the taming of the ego or self, in the form of submission to God. (Islam = submission.) It does not normally aim at the annihilation of the self as in Buddhism. Traditional Islam is a religion of moderation and balance. There is no concept of original sin, so the self is not considered to be intrinsically tarnished and in need of redemption as in Christianity. But having an excessive ego is likely to be a barrier to obeying God's laws and thus to being a good Muslim. Islam is against egotism, but not against the healthy development of the ego, in the sense of having a strong, autonomous confident self or a healthy self-esteem.

Every muslim has to be cautious of his ego, but especially those people who are studying 'ilm', who have been given a higher intellect by Allah, who have been blessed by Allah with knowledge and who wish to make da`wah, these people have to be very careful about a disease that comes to people of this nature many times unfortunately, and this is the disease of KIBR, of arrogance and pride. And sometimes the way this is reflected is where the person refuses and does not want anyone to correct him, or at least he will not accept correction from certain people whom he does not like or he despises. He may accept correction and told that he is wrong only by someone who is from his group, someone who is a close friend of his, but everybody else, he will look down upon and belittle them with contempt. This is Kibr. This is pride and arrogance, as described in the hadeeth of the Prophet.

The Prophet has been quoted that no one who has even a mustard grain seed weight of kibr in his heart will enter Jannah.

Someone asked the Prophet that what about a man who loves to dress well in clean clothing with nice shoes, would that be kibr; the Prophet replied “Allah is beautiful and loves beauty, this is not kibr, but kibr is to reject the truth and to look down upon the people”, to reject the truth for example when it comes to you from the source you do not like, when it comes to you from someone perhaps who is not as much upon the right path as you think you are, and to look down upon other people and to disgrace them, this is kibr. Even if one is the biggest aalim in the world, and prays religiously, gives alms and zakat, fasts and does umrah and haj, his ego and arrogant approach towards others will make it all useless.

Islam was won and spread throught out the world, from Europe to Indonesia, more by love and humility than the sword or arrogance and egoistic dictates. The Prophet was a very humble and simple man, he reasoned, he did not argue, he listened and explained patiently, he did not show contempt or impatience. He had learnt to master his ego, that is why Allah chose him.

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: What is the purpose of religion?

#119

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:49 pm

Al Zulfikar,

Thank you for the explanation. Thank God I haven't been belittling anyone anymore than you have been.

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4609
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: What is the purpose of religion?

#120

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:58 pm

anajmi wrote:
rituals and practices that a religion requires of or imposes
Acutally that is what makes a religion, a religion. That is what separates the believers from the disbelivers. else you are saying is just mumbo jumbo.
this statement of yours would mean that all the prophets before muhammad were non-muslims and disbelievers, although sent by Allah as mentioned in the quran???