usman and umar run away from battle?

[incredible]

Bismillah al rahman al rahim

abu baker, umar and usman in the light of the fact that these three gentlemen were very quick to desert the prophet when things got a bit rough on the battlefield. usman never fought in badr, he stayed in medina on the pretext that his wife was sick. abu baker spent the entire battle of badr sitting next to the tent of the prophet [brothers say he was guarding it]. umar is not even mentioned twisting a finger of a kaffir. however, i have read that according to umar himself
"during the battle of badr, i [umar] saw ibn naufal who was fighting like a raged bull. i tried to avoid ibn naufal but ibn naufal saw me and said: "son of khattab today you cannot flee" (even the kaffir knew that umar was quick on his feet when it came to running) however, before he could harm me ali ibn abi talib challanged him and slew him"

in uhad we all know the story. it is even mentioned in the quran when the good sahaba were climbing the mountain and the prophet was calling them but they did not even glance back at him. i tell you the fear of death is such that under this fear people achieve the unachievable. umar climbed mount uhad in his own words like a mountain goat. another sahabi reports that: "as i was running i saw umar running alongside with me, i said what is all of this. he [umar] replied it is Allah's wish" usman ran a marathon. when he started to run he kept running and returned to medina three days later. the prophet saw him and said:" seems as if you went a bit too far" alas, what about abu baker. the poor good soul stayed low key right from the beginning of the battle. you know, under the arab tribal custom, before the actual fighting started, braves from both sides would come forward and challange their opponents to sngle combat. i haven't read anywhere in any sunni or shia history that the three squires i mean abu baker, umar and usman ever responded to a challange and killed any kaffir in single combat. i wonder why they never tried to cover themselves with glory afterall they even beat speedy gonzalez when it came to claim khilafat.
after uhad came the battle of ahzab again mentioned in the quran. dear o' dear how the quran describes the condition of the sahaba: "their hearts were in their throats and in their minds they were doubting Allah". why did not umar [al-farooq] rise from the ranks to offer himself whem amr ibn abdoowad challanged muslims for single combat. three times he challanged and three times only one person ali asadullah stood to accept the challange.
well lets forget khyber and finally mention hunain. again mentioned in the quran. "YOU WERE PROUD OF YOUR NUMBERS AND THUS, WE TESTED YOU AND YOU TURNED YOUR BACKS AND FLED" only six people remained loyal with the prophet. every history book has testified that ali was with the prophet but no book has mentioned that our three good gentlemen were there.
no offence intended to anyone but honestly umar and usman were nimble on their feet and even for their age they moved fast had the contest with the kaffir's been athletics, umar would no about have been our sprint champion and usman the marathon champion. abu baker was too old for this kind of stuff.

your's brotherly

[anajmi]

This is a legend written by the same people who wrote about Venus descending on the house of Ali. It is a legend that is pregnant with potential for wonderful misinterpretations and the idol worshippers have left no stone unturned in doing just that.

For eg. in Madina, the prophet was able to point out the munafiqs of Madina but surprise surprise, the first three khalifas were not amongst those. With the stories that the shia have told about them, it would seem impossible for the prophet to miss them.

[ghulam muhammed]

Bro incredible,

In your display of love for Mola Ali (a.s.) you are taking shelter from highly questionable pieces of history. Dont forget that the khalifas had also fought many battles, the major one being the conquer of persia which resulted in shiasm gaining momentum and the resultant hatred of the khalifas.

[Muslim First]

In my opinion Icrediblle is Iblis reincarnated.

[incredible]

In my opinion Icrediblle is Iblis reincarnated.

u are on life support system...say laaialaha illahllah muhammaed rasullullah aliun waliullah and lanat on abu bakar usmaan umar before it is too late....

[incredible]

Bro incredible,

In your display of love for Mola Ali (a.s.) you are taking shelter from highly questionable pieces of history. Dont forget that the khalifas had also fought many battles, the major one being the conquer of persia which resulted in shiasm gaining momentum and the resultant hatred of the khalifas.

can u post list of people killed by this 3 in any islamic wars.

[anajmi]

Can you post the list of people killed by Prophet Muhammad (saw) in any of those Islamic wars?

[incredible]

Can you post the list of people killed by Prophet Muhammad (saw) in any of those Islamic wars?

did Muhammed (saw) run away from any war? NO

so now get the name of people killed by your hazrats.

[Muslim First]

u are on life support system...say laaialaha illahllah muhammaed rasullullah aliun waliullah and lanat on abu bakar usmaan umar before it is too late....

Incredible

Highlighted part of creed is not part of Islam. It is for saint worshipping Shies. Islam teaches not to worship or abuse living or dead people. When you do that your Islamiyat is in doubt.

There is a wise saying:

If you can’t say well about somebody, better say nothing.

It is shame you start fitnah in the name of Allah. How would you face him? Just think about it.

[incredible]

u are on life support system...say laaialaha illahllah muhammaed rasullullah aliun waliullah and lanat on abu bakar usmaan umar before it is too late....

Incredible

Highlighted part of creed is not part of Islam. It is for saint worshipping Shies. Islam teaches not to worship or abuse living or dead people. When you do that your Islamiyat is in doubt.

There is a wise saying:

If you can’t say well about somebody, better say nothing.

It is shame you start fitnah in the name of Allah. How would you face him? Just think about it.

things which looks fitnat to you is actually a eye opener for wahabi suckers like you...so take the advantage and wake up.

[Muslim First]

Cursing the companions
http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... sing#p2943

IF YOU SEARCH FOR WORD CURSSING, you will find this
http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/search. ... mit=Search

[anajmi]

incredible,

Can you post the list of people killed by prophet Muhammad (saw) in the Islamic wars?

If you cannot post the list, that means either prophet Muhammad (saw) ran away from the wars like the first three khalifas did (as per your idiotic thinking), or that you are a liar.

[sixfeetunder]

A man came to perform the Hajj to (Allah's) House. Seeing some people sitting, he said, "Who are these sitting people?" Somebody said, "They are the people of Quraish." He said, "Who is the old man?" They said, "Ibn 'Umar." He went to him and said, "I want to ask you about something; will you tell me about it? I ask you with the respect due to the sanctity of this (Sacred) House, do you know that 'Uthman bin 'Affan fled on the day of Uhud?" Ibn 'Umar said, "Yes." He said, "Do you know that he (i.e. 'Uthman) was absent from the Badr (battle) and did not join it?" Ibn 'Umar said, "Yes." He said, "Do you know that he failed to be present at the Ridwan Pledge of allegiance (i.e. Pledge of allegiance at Hudaibiya) and did not witness it?" Ibn 'Umar replied, "Yes," He then said, "Allahu-Akbar!" Ibn 'Umar said, "Come along; I will inform you and explain to you what you have asked. As for the flight (of 'Uthman) on the day of Uhud, I testify that Allah forgave him. As regards his absence from the Badr (battle), he was married to the daughter of Allah's Apostle and she was ill, so the Prophet said to him, 'You will have such reward as a man who has fought the Badr battle will get, and will also have the same share of the booty.' As for his absence from the Ridwan Pledge of allegiance if there had been anybody more respected by the Meccans than 'Uthman bin 'Affan, the Prophet would surely have sent that man instead of 'Uthman. So the Prophet sent him (i.e. 'Uthman to Mecca) and the Ridwan Pledge of allegiance took place after 'Uthman had gone to Mecca. The Prophet raised his right hand saying. 'This is the hand of 'Uthman,' and clapped it over his other hand and said, "This is for 'Uthman.'" Ibn 'Umar then said (to the man), "Go now, after taking this information."

Sahih Bukhari
Volume 5, Book 59, Number 395:
Narrated 'Uthman bin Mauhab:

[sixfeetunder]

Narrated Abu Qatada:

When it was the day of (the battle of) Hunain, I saw a Muslim man fighting with one of the pagans and another pagan was hiding himself behind the Muslim in order to kill him. So I hurried towards the pagan who was hiding behind the Muslim to kill him, and he raised his hand to hit me but I hit his hand and cut it off. That man got hold of me and pressed me so hard that I was afraid (that I would die), then he knelt down and his grip became loose and I pushed him and killed him. The Muslims (excepting the Prophet and some of his companions) started fleeing and I too, fled with them. Suddenly I met 'Umar bin Al-Khattab amongst the people and I asked him, "What is wrong with the people?" He said, "It is the order of Allah" Then the people returned to Allah's Apostle (after defeating the enemy). Allah's Apostle said, "Whoever produces a proof that he has killed an infidel, will have the spoils of the killed man." So I got up to look for an evidence to prove that I had killed an infidel, but I could not find anyone to bear witness for me, so I sat down. Then it came to my mind (that I should speak of it) and I mentioned the case to Allah's Apostle. A man from the persons who were sitting with him (i.e. the Prophet), said, "The arms of the deceased one whom he ( i.e. Abu Qatada) has mentioned, are with me, so please compensate him for it (i.e. the spoils)," Abu Bakr said, "No, Allah's Apostle will not give it (i.e. the spoils) to a weak humble person from Quraish and leave one of Allah's Lions who fights on behalf of Allah and His Apostle." Allah's Apostle then got up and gave that (spoils) to me, and I bought with it, a garden which was the first property I got after embracing Islam.

Sahih Bukhari
Volume 5, Book 59, Number 611

Here, according to Umar, fleeing from battle was the order of Allah (swt). SubhanAllah!

[sixfeetunder]

Since Brother Anajmi alleges that the incidents about Umar and Uthman fleeing from battles are legends created by Persian story-tellers, I plead him to look at the above two references from the ever-so-sahih Bukhari collection. Happy New Year!

[anajmi]

Well, if you believe Sahih Bukhari, then you will have to believe this as well,

A man came to perform the Hajj to (Allah's) House. Seeing some people sitting, he said, "Who are these sitting people?" Somebody said, "They are the people of Quraish." He said, "Who is the old man?" They said, "Ibn 'Umar." He went to him and said, "I want to ask you about something; will you tell me about it? I ask you with the respect due to the sanctity of this (Sacred) House, do you know that 'Uthman bin 'Affan fled on the day of Uhud?" Ibn 'Umar said, "Yes." He said, "Do you know that he (i.e. 'Uthman) was absent from the Badr (battle) and did not join it?" Ibn 'Umar said, "Yes." He said, "Do you know that he failed to be present at the Ridwan Pledge of allegiance (i.e. Pledge of allegiance at Hudaibiya) and did not witness it?" Ibn 'Umar replied, "Yes," He then said, "Allahu-Akbar!" Ibn 'Umar said, "Come along; I will inform you and explain to you what you have asked. As for the flight (of 'Uthman) on the day of Uhud, I testify that Allah forgave him. (but the shias will keep talking about it as it pleads their case of idol worship) As regards his absence from the Badr (battle), he was married to the daughter of Allah's Apostle and she was ill, so the Prophet said to him, 'You will have such reward as a man who has fought the Badr battle will get, and will also have the same share of the booty.' As for his absence from the Ridwan Pledge of allegiance if there had been anybody more respected by the Meccans than 'Uthman bin 'Affan, the Prophet would surely have sent that man instead of 'Uthman. So the Prophet sent him (i.e. 'Uthman to Mecca) and the Ridwan Pledge of allegiance took place after 'Uthman had gone to Mecca. The Prophet raised his right hand saying. 'This is the hand of 'Uthman,' and clapped it over his other hand and said, "This is for 'Uthman.'" Ibn 'Umar then said (to the man), "Go now, after taking this information."


Thank you for posting this hadith. It is a slap in the face of those who accuse Hazrat Uthman of cowardice.

[anajmi]

For the second hadith about Umar running from the battlefield, I don't think I can trust it much based upon historical facts.

Consider this in the hadith

Narrated Abu Qatada:

When it was the day of (the battle of) Hunain, I saw a Muslim man fighting with one of the pagans and another pagan was hiding himself behind the Muslim in order to kill him. So I hurried towards the pagan who was hiding behind the Muslim to kill him, and he raised his hand to hit me but I hit his hand and cut it off. That man got hold of me and pressed me so hard that I was afraid (that I would die), then he knelt down and his grip became loose and I pushed him and killed him. The Muslims (excepting the Prophet and some of his companions) started fleeing and I too, fled with them. Suddenly I met 'Umar bin Al-Khattab amongst the people and I asked him, "What is wrong with the people?" He said, "It is the order of Allah" Then the people returned to Allah's Apostle (after defeating the enemy). Allah's Apostle said, "Whoever produces a proof that he has killed an infidel, will have the spoils of the killed man." So I got up to look for an evidence to prove that I had killed an infidel, but I could not find anyone to bear witness for me, so I sat down. Then it came to my mind (that I should speak of it) and I mentioned the case to Allah's Apostle. A man from the persons who were sitting with him (i.e. the Prophet), said, "The arms of the deceased one whom he ( i.e. Abu Qatada) has mentioned, are with me, so please compensate him for it (i.e. the spoils)," Abu Bakr said, "No, Allah's Apostle will not give it (i.e. the spoils) to a weak humble person from Quraish and leave one of Allah's Lions who fights on behalf of Allah and His Apostle." Allah's Apostle then got up and gave that (spoils) to me, and I bought with it, a garden which was the first property I got after embracing Islam.


It looks like the people who were fleeing ultimately defeated the enemy. So that means in a way, it was Allah's plan. Their flight enabled them to defeat the enemy. Either way, I do not think this hadith is clear.

[sixfeetunder]

I appreciate your sincere efforts in trying to defend, justify and manipulate the deeds of the leaders you follow. However, the simple truth is that they did RUN AWAY from battle. This is clearly mentioned in the ahadith I posted above, from the Sahih Bukhari collection. You should also now honestly accept the fact that these incidents are not creation of Persian story-tellers.

Whether Uthman was forgiven by Allah or not is a different issue. The issue under discussion is whether he ran away from battle or not. The references prove that he did. As for Umar, he was certainly not the first person to use the name of Allah to justify his action. There have been many leaders in history who use the Almighty's name to justify their own misdeeds. The hadith is very clear to understand for any educated person with average discerning abilities. It is another matter if one chooses not to understand.

[sixfeetunder]

For the second hadith about Umar running from the battlefield, I don't think I can trust it much based upon historical facts.

Consider this in the hadith

Narrated Abu Qatada:

When it was the day of (the battle of) Hunain, I saw a Muslim man fighting with one of the pagans and another pagan was hiding himself behind the Muslim in order to kill him. So I hurried towards the pagan who was hiding behind the Muslim to kill him, and he raised his hand to hit me but I hit his hand and cut it off. That man got hold of me and pressed me so hard that I was afraid (that I would die), then he knelt down and his grip became loose and I pushed him and killed him. The Muslims (excepting the Prophet and some of his companions) started fleeing and I too, fled with them. Suddenly I met 'Umar bin Al-Khattab amongst the people and I asked him, "What is wrong with the people?" He said, "It is the order of Allah" Then the people returned to Allah's Apostle (after defeating the enemy). Allah's Apostle said, "Whoever produces a proof that he has killed an infidel, will have the spoils of the killed man." So I got up to look for an evidence to prove that I had killed an infidel, but I could not find anyone to bear witness for me, so I sat down. Then it came to my mind (that I should speak of it) and I mentioned the case to Allah's Apostle. A man from the persons who were sitting with him (i.e. the Prophet), said, "The arms of the deceased one whom he ( i.e. Abu Qatada) has mentioned, are with me, so please compensate him for it (i.e. the spoils)," Abu Bakr said, "No, Allah's Apostle will not give it (i.e. the spoils) to a weak humble person from Quraish and leave one of Allah's Lions who fights on behalf of Allah and His Apostle." Allah's Apostle then got up and gave that (spoils) to me, and I bought with it, a garden which was the first property I got after embracing Islam.


It looks like the people who were fleeing ultimately defeated the enemy. So that means in a way, it was Allah's plan. Their flight enabled them to defeat the enemy. Either way, I do not think this hadith is clear.

This is a very creative take on the flight of the cowards! I cannot believe that you're defending those who ran away from battle - That too, a battle for the sake of Islam - where there is no doubt - as the Prophet himself is at the helm of the affairs!

Wait a second, it seems you know that Umar did run away and hence you're trying to defend the cowards, so as to make Umar's act look legitimate. Now, I get it.

[Muslim First]

Umar From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umar
Western views

In his book Mahomet and His Successors, Washington Irving estimates the achievements of Umar in the following terms:

The whole history of Omar shows him to have been a man of great powers of mind, inflexible integrity, and rigid justice. He was, more than any one else, the founder of the Islam empire; confirming and carrying out the inspirations of the prophet; aiding Abu Beker with his counsels during his brief caliphate; and establishing wise regulations for the strict administration of the law throughout the rapidly-extending bounds of the Moslem conquests. The rigid hand which he kept upon his most popular generals in the midst of their armies, and in the most distant scenes of their triumphs, gave signal evidence of his extraordinary capacity to rule. In the simplicity of his habits, and his contempt for all pomp and luxury, he emulated the example of the prophet and Abu Beker. He endeavored incessantly to impress the merit and policy of the same in his letters to his generals. 'Beware,' he would say, 'of Persian luxury, both in food and raiment. Keep to the simple habits of your country, and Allah will continue you victorious; depart from them, and he will reverse your fortunes.' It was his strong conviction of the truth of this policy which made him so severe in punishing all ostentatious style and luxurious indulgence in his officers. Some of his ordinances do credit to his heart as well as his head. He forbade that any female captive who had borne a child should be sold as a slave. In his weekly distributions of the surplus money of his treasury he proportioned them to the wants, not the merits of the applicants. 'God,' said he, 'has bestowed the good things of this world to relieve our necessities, not to reward our virtues: those will be rewarded in another world.'[73]

In his book The Caliphate: Its Rise, Decline, and Fall Sir William Muir says as follows about Umar:

Omar's life requires but few lines to sketch. Simplicity and duty were his guiding principles; impartiality and devotion the leading features of his administration. Responsibility so weighed upon him that he was heard to exclaim, 'O that my mother had not borne me; would that I had been this stalk of grass instead!' In early life of a fiery and impatient temper, he was known, even in the later days of the Prophet, as the stern advocate of vengeance. Ever ready to unsheathe the sword, it was he that at Bedr advised the prisoners to be all put to death. But age, as well as office, had now mellowed this asperity. His sense of justice was strong. And excepting the treatment of Khalid, whom he pursued with an ungenerous resentment, no act of tyranny or injustice is recorded against him; and even in this matter his enmity took its rise in Khalid's unscrupulous treatment of a fallen foe. The choice of his captains and governors was free from favouritism, and (Moghira and Ammar excepted) singularly fortunate. The various tribes and bodies in the empire, representing interests the most diverse, reposed in his integrity implicit confidence, and his strong arm maintained the discipline of law and empire. ... Whip in hand, he would perambulate the streets and markets of Medina, ready to punish slanders on the spot; and so the proverb,-'Omar's whip more terrible than another's sword.' But with all this he was tender-hearted, and numberless acts of kindness are recorded of him, such as relieving the wants of the widow and the fatherless.[74]

In The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, Gibbon refers to Umar in the following terms:

Yet the abstinence and humility of Omar were not inferior to the virtues of Abubeker: his food consisted of barley-bread or dates; his drink was water; he preached in a gown that was torn or tattered in twelve places; and a Persian satrap, who paid his homage as to the conqueror, found him asleep among the beggars on the steps of the mosch of Medina. Oeconomy is the source of liberality, and the increase of the revenue enabled Omar to establish a just and perpetual reward for the past and present services of the faithful. Careless of his own emolument, he assigned to Abbas, the uncle of the prophet, the first and most ample allowance of twenty-five thousand drams or pieces of silver. Five thousand were allotted to each of the aged warriors, the relics of the field of Beder, and the last and the meanest of the companions of Mahomet was distinguished by the annual reward of three thousand pieces. ... Under his reign, and that of his predecessor, the conquerors of the East were the trusty servants of God and the people: the mass of public treasure was consecrated to the expenses of peace and war; a prudent mixture of justice and bounty, maintained the discipline of the Saracens, and they united, by a rare felicity, the dispatch and execution of despotism, with the equal and frugal maxims of a republican government.[75]

In his book History of the Arabs Professor Philip Khuri Hitti has assessed the achievements of Umar in the following terms:

Simple and frugal in manner, his energetic and talented successor, 'Umar (634–44), who was of towering height, strong physique and bald-headed, continued at least for some time after becoming caliph to support himself by trade and lived throughout his life in a style as unostentatious as that of a Bedouin sheikh. In fact 'Umar, whose name according to Moslem tradition is the greatest in early Islam after that of Muhammad, has been idolized by Moslem writers for his piety, justice and patriarchal simplicity and treated as the personification of all the virtues a caliph ought to possess. His irreproachable character became an exemplar for all conscientious successors to follow. He owned, we are told, one shirt and one mantle only, both conspicuous for their patchwork, slept on a bed of palm leaves and had no concern other than the maintenance of the purity of the faith, the upholding of justice and the ascendancy and security of Islam and the Arabians. Arabic literature is replete with anecdotes extolling 'Umar's stern character. He is said to have scourged his own son to death for drunkenness and immorality. Having in a fit of anger inflicted a number of stripes on a Bedouin who came seeking his succour against an oppressor, the caliph soon repented and asked the Bedouin to inflict the same number on him. But the latter refused. So 'Umar retired to his home with the following soliloquy: 'O son of al-Khattab! humble thou wert and Allah hath elevated thee; astray, and Allah hath guided thee; weak, and Allah hath strengthened thee. Then He caused thee to rule over the necks of thy people, and when one of them came seeking thy aid, thou didst strike him! What wilt thou have to say to thy Lord when thou presentest thyself before Him?' The one who fixed the Hijrah as the commencement of the Moslem era, presided over the conquest of large portions of the then known world, instituted the state register and organized the government of the new empire met a tragic and sudden death at the very zenith of his life when he was struck down (3 November 644) by the poisoned dagger of a Christian Persian slave in the midst of his own congregation.[76]

Encyclopedia Britannica remarks about Umar:

To 'Omar's ten years' Caliphate belong for the most part the great conquests. He himself did not take the field, but remained in Medina; he never, however, suffered the reins to slip from his grasp, so powerful was the influence of his personality and the Moslem community of feeling. His political insight is shown by the fact that he endeavoured to limit the indefinite extension of Moslem conquest, and to maintain and strengthen the national Arabian character of the commonwealth of Islam; also by his making it his foremost task to promote law and order in its internal affairs. The saying with which he began his reign will never grow antiquated: 'By God, he that is weakest among you shall be in my sight the strongest, until I have vindicated for him his rights; but him that is strongest will I treat as the weakest, until he complies with the laws.' It would be impossible to give a better general definition of the function of the State.[77]

On the other hand, David Samuel Margoliouth offers this assessment of Umar:

"Yet we have no record of any occasion on which Omar displayed remarkable courage, though many examples are at hand of his cruelty and bloodthirstiness; at the battle of Hunain he ran away, and on another occasion owed his life to the good nature of an enemy." (Mohammed and the Rise of Islam, pg 164)"[78]

However, in contrast to Margoliouth's assertion, Shahid Ashraf in his literary work Encyclopedia of Holy Prophet and Companions celebrates Umar as amongst the firmest companions who remained with the Prophet Muhammad at his most critical juncture during the battle of Hunain when others fled during ther disarray:

Only a dozen companions stood by the Holy Prophet, all other men fled for safety. The men who stood around the Holy Prophet included Hadrat Abu Bakr, Hadrat Umar and some members of the Hashemites[79]

This view of Umar's courageous commitment at the Battle of Hunayn is also shared by Mufti Muhammad Mukarram Ahmed[80], the famed Ibn Ishaq in his Sīrat rasūl Allāh[81], Masudul Hasan in Hadrat Ali Murtada[82]. In fact, the famed Ibn Sa'd's Kitab al-Tabaqat al-Kabir[83], one of the most reliable works of Islamic history, it is reported: "On that day (Battle of Hunayn) those (few) who remained firm were al-Abbas, Ali ibn Abi Talib, ... Abu Bakr, Umar, ..."

Here is what br porus posted:
In
Re: Cursing the companions
http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... companions

by porus on Tue Dec 31, 2002 12:05 am
If the Quran was revealed in this day and age and prescribed killing in 'defence' and cursing other humans because they 'wronged' the founder, would you accept it as a word of God?

How different all this is from Jesus Christ's injunction to "Love your enemies"!!

Swami Vivekanand has an interesting theory about Muhammad. He thinks that Muhammad was given an opportunity to get enlightened but blew it by becoming partisan to his family, as Shias believe. By making the universal message a monopoly of a dynasty, he made the religion parochial and its adherents narrow-minded cursers and breast-beaters. And they say Islam attracts most converts? I fear for the future of mankind if this religion is adopted by the majority of earth's inhabitants.

And here is how br porus ended his discussion:

Why should I much care about the power struggle among Arabs in 7th century? They did me no harm and apparently they are not doing me much good either.

Wasalaam

[leila]

To 'Omar's ten years' Caliphate belong for the most part the great conquests. He himself did not take the field, but remained in Medina; he never, however, suffered the reins to slip from his grasp, so powerful was the influence of his personality and the Moslem community of feeling. His political insight is shown by the fact that he endeavoured to limit the indefinite extension of Moslem conquest, and to maintain and strengthen the national Arabian character of the commonwealth of Islam; also by his making it his foremost task to promote law and order in its internal affairs. The saying with which he began his reign will never grow antiquated: 'By God, he that is weakest among you shall be in my sight the strongest, until I have vindicated for him his rights; but him that is strongest will I treat as the weakest, until he complies with the laws.' It would be impossible to give a better general definition of the function of the State.

this is the biggest proof of umar's cowardness,he never took part in any war but sent muslim army to capture other parts of the world infact Imam Ali went in many wars for the sake of Islaam.while umar was just taking pride of wins on the blood of innocent muslims.

[Muslim First]

leila

this is the biggest proof of umar's cowardness,he never took part in any war but sent muslim army to capture other parts of the world infact Imam Ali went in many wars for the sake of Islaam.while umar was just taking pride of wins on the blood of innocent muslims.

So he was coward

I will repeat porus's post

Why should I much care about the power struggle among Arabs in 7th century? They did me no harm and apparently they are not doing me much good either.

[Muslim First]

leila
Consider the f0llowing

Many hadiths prohibit abuse for its negativity and futility The Prophet (Peace be upon him) was neither a Fahish (one who speaks bad words) nor a Mutafahish (one who speaks obscene evil words to make people laugh). I will mention many hadiths in succession which prohibit the abuse of many things as mentioned in "Sahih Al- Jami' Al Saghir" and its apexes, that emphasize the importance the Sunnah laid on implanting this positive spirit into Muslim and giving impetus to build rather than to demolish. These Hadiths are:


Ibn Abbas RA Reported:
Once Prophet SAW passed by two graves and said “Their occupants are punished, but not for [what you consider to be] major sins. One of them did not avoid being contaminated by urine, while the other continued spreading slender.
[Related by Al-Bukharin and Muslim]


Abu Dawud reported on the authority of Jabir Ibn Salim that the Prophet said: "Do not abuse anyone and do not underestimate the value of doing what is right."

In agreed upon hadith, Abi Sa'd and Muslim reported on the authority of Abu Hurairah that the Prophet said: "Do not abuse my Companions. By Allah in Whose Hands my soul rests, if any of you spent money as high as Uhud mountain in Allah's Way, he will not be half as near to the piety, generosity and righteousness of one of them."

Al-Bukhari and others reported on the authority of`Aishah that the Prophet said: "Do not abuse the dead, for they have reached the rest of what they have done."

Ahmad, Al-Tirmidhi and Ibn Majah reported on the authority of Al-Mughirah that the Prophet said: "Do not abuse the dead and hurt the living.

[anajmi]

sixfeetunder,

Read the hadith properly. Let me post the first part again.

When it was the day of (the battle of) Hunain, I saw a Muslim man fighting with one of the pagans and another pagan was hiding himself behind the Muslim in order to kill him. So I hurried towards the pagan who was hiding behind the Muslim to kill him, and he raised his hand to hit me but I hit his hand and cut it off. That man got hold of me and pressed me so hard that I was afraid (that I would die), then he knelt down and his grip became loose and I pushed him and killed him. The Muslims (excepting the Prophet and some of his companions) started fleeing and I too, fled with them.

This person who was also fleeing was actually participating in the fight and had just killed and cut off an enemy's hand. So maybe it was Allah's plan.

When we read the hadith, we should read them in the light of the Quran and the life of the prophet. It is very well known that the prophet prayed to Allah to convert Hazrat Umar to Islam because of the great warrior and powerful person that he was in Mecca.

Now it is incumbent upon shias to prove such things about these sahabas, manipulate hadith, manipulate history, to establish the divinity of Hazrat Ali, but it falls flat on its face. The sahabas have been vindicated by Allah and the prophet (saw) and that is not going to change doesn't matter how much the shia curse them.

Anyway, it doesn't matter to me if Hazrat Umar or Hazrat Uthman fled from the battlefield for one reason or another. Even if they did flee from battle, it doesn't change the fact that they were Khalifas under whom Hazrat Ali served and Islam spread far and wide. My Islam does not require Hazrat Umar and Hazrat Uthman to be masoom such that, if they are not, my entire belief system would collapse. In shia Islam, one evidence about the human side of Hazrat Ali brings the house down!!

[asif786]

When we read the hadith, we should read them in the light of the Quran and the life of the prophet. It is very well known that the prophet prayed to Allah to convert Hazrat Umar to Islam because of the great warrior and powerful person that he was in Mecca.

Ofcourse ,as umar was suppose to be the next prophet , the bhagoda prophet

[feelgud]

sixfeetunder,
.....
When we read the hadith, we should read them in the light of the Quran and the life of the prophet.

If someone says Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman were not trustworthy than he actually is saying that the Prophet did not know who to trust..
1st of all, u ll not not fiund any hadith about Uthman in Ghazwa Hunain..

the only thing u may read which relates "Uthman" and "Hunain" is that "he owned property in Wadiu'l-Qura and Hunain valued at 100,000 dinars"
this too was narrated by E. A. Belyaev of the Communist-dominated Soviet Union

1st we should know what happened at Ghazwa Hunain

According to Ibn Ishaq, Jabir Ibn Abdullah who witnessed Hunain, said, "When we approached the vallay of Hunain we come through a valley wide and sloping. We were descending gradually in the morning twilight. Then enemy had got there before us and had hidden themselves in it by paths and side tracks and narrow places. The had collected and were fully prepared, and by Allah we were terrified when, as we were coming down, the squadrons attacked us on man, the people fled none heeding the other. The men ran away except that a number of Muhajrun and Ansar and men of his family remained with the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him)...

The narration goes on to state that Umar did not flee the battle... but I think that won't convince your friends here..

before we read the hadith from Bukhari about Umar in Ghazwa Hunain,
lets read what the Quran says about ghazwa HUNAIN

"Truly Allah has given you victory on many battlefields, and on the Day of Hunain (battle) when you rejoiced at your great number, but it availed you naught and the earth, vast as it is, was narrowed for you, then you turned back in flight"
"Then Allah did send down His Sakinah (calmness and reassurance) on the Messenger, and on the believers, and sent down forces (angels) which you saw not, and punished the disbelievers. Such is the recompense of disbelievers"
"Then after that Allah will accept the repentance of whom He wills. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."
(Quran, Surah At-Taubah 9 : 25, 26, 27)

In these verses Allah says that the earth was made narrow for the believers [they proud on the large number] and they stated to run away from the battle, but then Allah reassured the believers and helped them with angels and finally the kuffaar were defeated.

The Hadith from Bukhari about Umar at Hunain

5-610:
Narrated Abu Qatada:
We set out along with the Prophet during the year of (the battle of) Hunain, and when we faced the enemy, the Muslims (with the exception of the Prophet and some of his companions) retreated (before the enemy). I saw one of the pagans over-powering one of the Muslims, so I struck the pagan from behind his neck causing his armor to be cut off. The pagan headed towards me and pressed me so forcibly that I felt as if I was dying. Then death took him over and he released me. Afterwards I followed `Umar and said to him, "What is wrong with the people?" He said, "It is the Order of Allah." ……

As you can see this hadith does not actually clearly state that Umar ran away from Hunain.. rather it says that Abu Qatada met Umar while the people were starting to run away

If you read about the battle of Hunain, you will read that on seeing the men fleeing, the Messenger of Allah called out to them to come back until about a hundred peple gathered around the Prophet.
so Not all of the people who started to run away Actually ran AWAY.. many came back to the Prophet.

While some ran away, others came back, as according to the narration of Ibn Ishaq the camels bumped into each other..

It was in this confusion that Abu Qatada asked Umar "What is wrong with the people?"
and Umer said, "It is the Order of Allah." (Allah and Allah's messenger have told them to stay in the battlefield)

so Umar was either NOT running away.. or he had started to run but had come back upon hearing the Prophet's call to return.

As shown in another Hadith from Bukhari Volume 5

5.609:
Narrated Ibn `Umar:
When we returned from (the battle of) Hunain, Umar asked the Prophet about a vow which he had made during the Pre-Islamic period of Ignorance that he would perform I`tikaf. The Prophet ordered him to fulfill his vow.

[Muslim First]

Br feelgood

AS

Thanks for your insightfull post. This is Shia site and there are hardcore Bohra who have heard cursing of 3+1 when they were in their mothers womb. They will not be convinced no matter what you do.

Wasalaam