US Firm Fires 26 Muslim Drivers Over Prayer Breaks.

[ghulam muhammed]

US firm fires 26 Muslim drivers over prayer breaks

SEATTLE: More than two dozen Somali Muslim drivers for Hertz at Seattle-Tacoma International Airport are being fired after refusing to clock out for daily breaks during which they normally pray, according to media reports.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 459611.cms

[Fatwa Banker]

GM,

Do you knowingly post misleading headlines or are you one of "the Muslim masses" that actually believes this propaganda ? The first paragraph of this article correctly identifies the cause of termination: fired after refusing to clock out for daily breaks during which they normally pray. Now let me show you the difference.

Headline: Wahabi Firm Fires 26 Christian Drivers for Eating Pizza.
Text: They are among 34 Wahabi Biotech employees suspended on September 30 for failing to clock out before lunch breaks during which they normally have pizza, company spokesman Mullah Mayter Anajmi said.

[Ala maqaam]

firing for eating pizza is silly,but any ways if muslim wants to pray they shud seek for official permission from authority so that they are not sacked in future.

In this era shia namaz (combining prayers) seems to be most logical way for prayers.

[Muslim First]

,but any ways if muslim wants to pray they shud seek for official permission from authority so that they are not sacked in future.

prayers should not be used to loiter. Nobody prevents spending 5 minutes praying 4 fird for zohr. Misuse of prayer time will lead to employers not hiring practicing Muslims.

In this era shia namaz (combining prayers) seems to be most logical way for prayers.

Its not Shia Sunni issue. Do not make it.

[Ala maqaam]

GM,
They were fired not because they took the time out for Namaaz, but because they did not follow protocol, which was clock out while leaving and clock back in while entering.
I see nothing wrong in what they were asked to do. If it was company policy that they clock out if they leave the premises, then these are
official rules, not signs of discrimination.
To be honest, the headline of your post was extremely misleading and false.

AM,
I would have to agree with MF. Let's not make this into a Shia-Sunni issue

Mustafa i am posting this video for u....

this was the way how Hussain prayed last namaz e zuhur...must watch it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYah3K1Q ... re=related

this is the waqiya of zohar bin kain one of the shaheed of karbala

[anajmi]

I agree. If Muslims want to take prayer breaks, they should not be expecting their employers to pay for that time.

[ghulam muhammed]

To be honest, the headline of your post was extremely misleading and false.

Do you knowingly post misleading headlines or are you one of "the Muslim masses" that actually believes this propaganda ?

The Headline of the Post was the one which appeared in the article in Times of India and not something which was invented by me. I didnt choose the headline, it was the newspaper which did so, hence your criticism if any should be directed to the newspaper and not me.

[anajmi]

So you basically have a problem with any headline that talks about muslims getting a raw deal right?

[Fatwa Banker]

The Headline of the Post was the one which appeared in the article in Times of India and not something which was invented by me. I didnt choose the headline, it was the newspaper which did so, hence your criticism if any should be directed to the newspaper and not me.

It was your decision to choose that misleading Topic on this forum and link to an article you cannot defend . You do that often. When you link an article you should be able to defend it or disagree with it, just throwing it out there is meaningless.

[ghulam muhammed]

It was your decision to choose that misleading Topic on this forum and link to an article you cannot defend

What was so misleading ? The topic/headlines were the ones which appeared in the newspaper. And who says that Iam defending anyone ? Although I believe that the issue is a small one which could be easily sorted out by the fleet owners and the drivers. And I dont think that any passenger would object to a delay of a few minutes which is the time needed for prayers. Moreover there can be delays even when the flight doesnt arrive on time and there can be some unexpected delays even in traffic jams, so why to crib on the few minutes delay during prayer times ?

[Fatwa Banker]

That is not what the article is about. Did you even read it ?

[ghulam muhammed]

So, what is a 'clock out agreement' ?

[anajmi]

I think we need to have outrage on the muslim streets, should take out mass protest, and burn effigies.

[Muslim First]

So, what is a 'clock out agreement' ?

I believe compny want drivers to punch clock when they go for prayers and punch it when they come back to work. As I understand that drivers are probably abusing prayer time out. This is precisly reason some employers prefer to hire non Muslim workers in Middle East.

[Fatwa Banker]

So, what is a 'clock out agreement' ?

GM,

If you are an hourly employee clock out agreement means that you are not on company time and not getting paid. You clock back in when you are done and are "back on the clock", meaning getting paid. It is not a prohibited activity, just not a paid one. As MF stated, most likely there was some lollygagging going on before and / or after the prayers, else most reasonable employers wouldn't object.

On a related note, I had an employee who was assigned to a client in a suburb and he asked me about Friday prayer breaks. I told him it would not be an issue, but he found a mosque 30 minutes out and wanted time out to pray there every Friday. The client approved it (paid time , 2 1/2 hour prayer break every Friday). I do not want to start a debate, just curious as to MF's or Anajmi's opinion if it was reasonable. I thought it was excessive as he could have prayed on the premises.

[ghulam muhammed]

As I understand that drivers are probably abusing prayer time out.

If that is the case then action must be taken against the drivers.

[anajmi]

Friday prayers are required to be prayed in the Mosque. As per the etiquettes of the friday prayer, you are required to be there during the entire sermon. The prayer starts at the end of the sermon. This takes about 35 - 40 minutes. If you add sunnah time that would be another 10 mins. So about 50 minutes. If the mosque is 30 minutes away , that would add up to a couple of hours. However, an hourly employee shouldn't be expecting the client to pay for that time. The agreement should be that either the employee starts early on friday or finishes late or somehow makes up for that time. No one over here in the US objects to prayer breaks. But we shouldn't be abusing that privilege. Unlike in the middle east, it is a privilege over here and not a right.

[Fatwa Banker]

What is covered in the sermon and is it compulsory as the Friday prayers are? What if there is not a Mosque within a reasonable distance ? What is a reasonable distance ? What if the hours don't work for the employer ?

Again, not looking for a debate, just opinions.....

[anajmi]

A muslim employee will have to gauge what is more important to him or her. If he wants to please the employer more than Allah then he skips the Friday. If he wants to please Allah more than the employer then he finds another job. A happy medium works in almost all cases where if you can cover up the time spent during prayers, most employers do not have issue.

What is covered in the sermon and is it compulsory as the Friday prayers are?

You should go to a Friday prayer with your employee to figure out what is covered in the sermon. It is compulsory but a lot of people do not attend it. They arrive just before the prayer begins and leave immediately after, cutting short the time they need, but that is not recommended.

062.009
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! When the call is proclaimed to prayer on Friday (the Day of Assembly), hasten earnestly to the Remembrance of Allah, and leave off business: That is best for you if ye but knew!
PICKTHAL: O ye who believe! When the call is heard for the prayer of the day of congregation, haste unto remembrance of Allah and leave your trading. That is better for you if ye did but know.
SHAKIR: O you who believe! when the call is made for prayer on Friday, then hasten to the remembrance of Allah and leave off trading; that is better for you, if you know.

062.010
YUSUFALI: And when the Prayer is finished, then may ye disperse through the land, and seek of the Bounty of Allah: and celebrate the Praises of Allah often (and without stint): that ye may prosper.
PICKTHAL: And when the prayer is ended, then disperse in the land and seek of Allah's bounty, and remember Allah much, that ye may be successful.
SHAKIR: But when the prayer is ended, then disperse abroad in the land and seek of Allah's grace, and remember Allah much, that you may be successful.

062.011
YUSUFALI: But when they see some bargain or some amusement, they disperse headlong to it, and leave thee standing. Say: "The (blessing) from the Presence of Allah is better than any amusement or bargain! and Allah is the Best to provide (for all needs)."
PICKTHAL: But when they spy some merchandise or pastime they break away to it and leave thee standing. Say: That which Allah hath is better than pastime and than merchandise, and Allah is the Best of providers.
SHAKIR: And when they see merchandise or sport they break up for It, and leave you standing. Say: What is with Allah is better than sport and (better) than merchandise, and Allah is the best of Sustainers.

[anajmi]

What if there is not a Mosque within a reasonable distance ? What is a reasonable distance ?

Unlike a few years back, these days in the US, in all major cities, you will find mosques within a 20 - 30 minute radius. If there isn't any, there will be a small musalla either in some shop or someone's house where you will be able to pray. Anyone who wishes to pray will be able to find something close. Normally a few muslims working in the same location arrange something so that they do not have to go far and that is how it starts, ending in the building a new mosque in a location where there was none close by.

[Ala maqaam]

062.009
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! When the call is proclaimed to prayer on Friday (the Day of Assembly), hasten earnestly to the Remembrance of Allah, and leave off business: That is best for you if ye but knew!
PICKTHAL: O ye who believe! When the call is heard for the prayer of the day of congregation, haste unto remembrance of Allah and leave your trading. That is better for you if ye did but know.
SHAKIR: O you who believe! when the call is made for prayer on Friday, then hasten to the remembrance of Allah and leave off trading; that is better for you, if you know.

command of ALLAH is above every thing....MashAllah...every momeen and muslim shud atten atleast the jumuaa prayers every week.

[feelgud]

What is covered in the sermon and is it compulsory as the Friday prayers are?

Again, not looking for a debate, just opinions.....

The sermon is an essential part of the Friday Prayer. This prayer provides an opportunity to the Muslims to gather in large congregations and offer the Salah. The congregational nature of this prayer was ordained to provide a platform for the Muslim rulers to address their people; these rulers of the Islamic state and their representatives were thus given the privilege to speak to the public and communicate to them information on national and local concerns. It was hence only the political representatives who were entrusted the responsibility to lead the Friday Prayer and deliver the sermon. They would not only exhort the believers to the right path, but also discuss the political and administrative affairs. They could state the government policies on any issue and seek the public opinion.

After the decline of the Muslim rule and abandonment of this duty by the state representative, the sermon is now merely said to simulate the decreed Friday sermon though the traces of the political aspects are still found in its contents.

We know that the blessings sent on the four caliphs and the descendents of the Prophet (sws) are analogous to the earlier tradition where leaders would defend their policies and exalt their predecessors. Initially, every political group used to exalt only those caliphs who were perceived to be the founders of their political group. It however changed and some neutral people decided to praise all the previous grand Muslim leaders.

This explanation is further corroborated by the fact that, many a time, a tradition is also narrated in the Friday Sermon, even in these days, which describes that the head of a state is the shelter provided to the Muslims by the Almighty.

In the light of the above explanation, we can say that the sermon in fact is a means of communication between the rulers and the ruled. Naturally, it should be in the language that the audience understands or it would mean nothing. The second part of the sermon has always been devoted for prayers and beseeching the audience to follow the right path. This again necessitates that the sermon should be delivered in the language the audience knows in order to make it fruitful.
Those, who are of the opinion that the Friday address should be delivered only in the Arabic language, base their opinion on the fact that the Prophet (pbuh) delivered it in the Arabic language and because the Friday address is a part of the prescribed congregational worship, therefore, its form, as given by the Prophet (pbuh), should not be altered.[TMH]

[feelgud]

REF
http://al-mawrid.org/pages/search_engli ... mit=1&l=en

[Muslim First]

FB
just curious as to MF's or Anajmi's opinion if it was reasonable. I thought it was excessive as he could have prayed on the premises.

Before my semi retirement I used to employ arounf 100 people. 5 to 10 Muslims. We uswd to pray Zohr, Asr and magrib prayers in my office and go to Masjid for Jumma, We all made up time lost and did not stick time to client.

Like anjmi said in Boston there are Masjids all over. There are some brothera who miss Khutba and come just before fird prayer (Jumma fird is only 2 Rakat)which is over in max 10 minutes and they leave right away. Many of them are hospital employee located only minutes away.

[Fatwa Banker]

You should go to a Friday prayer with your employee to figure out what is covered in the sermon

How about I take your word for it ?

In reviewing your quotes it speaks of prayer which is not in question. You say "Friday prayers are required to be prayed in the Mosque" and that sermons are "compulsory" but what you documented does not reflect that.

[Muslim First]

I really do not know where I copied this from but I had it in my information file. Below is recommendation to Imams what good Khutba should be:

Putting all this into consideration, we find it relevant to cite the following guidelines, set forth by the late prominent Muslim scholar and da`iyah Sheikh Muhammad Al-Gahzali:

“The mosque is the heart of the Islamic community and the place where the believers meet day and night to fulfill their obligations to Allah and seek His guidance and help, glory be to Him.

The Friday khutbah is a major Islamic ritual, which penetrates the hearts in moments when people are ready to accept the guidance. That is why the message of the khutbah is extremely effective.

The Imam who studies his subject and presents it well is contributing a great deal in teaching the Ummah and leading its revival. He also contributes to the nation’s materialistic and intellectual development and connects the tomorrow with its glorious past.

I aspire to contribute to bettering the quality of the khutbahs in the masjids (mosques). I would like to make the pulpit a true image of Islam’s pure knowledge and supreme education. The masjid is a place where great emotional and intellectual energy is stimulated. This is especially true on Friday when the worshipers listen attentively to the Imam. The Imam explains to them the teachings of Islam and shows them the rules that Allah has put forth, as well as Islam’s pure knowledge and education.

Therefore, I would like to give these brief guidelines for what I believe is essential for the Friday khutbah. These guidelines will make the khutbah a spring for spiritual and intellectual growth:

1. It is recommended that to make khutbah on one main topic. The speaker who talks about many issues distracts the audience from a focus. The result would be that he alternates between different emotions and ideas. Regardless of his eloquence and fluency, he would never succeed in drawing a clear image about the teachings of Islam. Clarity is crucial for education. Ambiguity and excessive generalization is of no use. The Friday khutbah is not a theoretical session, but a practical explanation of the truth.

2. The sub-themes of the khutbah should flow in a logical sequence. The audience should feel as if they are ascending steps. At the end of the khutbah the audience would reach the conclusion that the speaker has aimed for. The speaker should be selective of which scripts facilitate the objective of his speech.

3. The khutbah is mainly discussing the Islamic values, which are derived from the Book of Allah, the Sunnah, and the traditions of the salaf (the early righteous Muslims). Thus, each and everything in the khutbah should be supported by a Qur’anic verse, an authentic hadith, or an acceptable fact. There should be enough contained in these sources for advice and guidance. Therefore, it is not acceptable at all for a khutbah to include non-authentic stories, let alone fabrications. Scholars permitted the use of non-authentic hadiths for certain actions. However, they put on their use the condition that these hadiths do not violate the core Islamic basics and fundamentals. I think that there is enough authentic hadiths for the learned speaker. Moreover, there are enough stories in the hadiths of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him), the guided Caliphs, and the leading scholars.

4. The khutbah should never discuss controversial issues. It should never present only a single Islamic opinion and leave out others that are valid. The mosque should unify and not divide people. The Ummah should be gathered around the fundamentals of iman (faith) that every person agrees upon versus matters that are subject to personal opinion. There are numerous principles that can make good topics. Muslims have suffered enough from divisions among themselves, and it is about time that the mosques provide unity and harmony.

5. A good speaker cannot ignore current affairs of the world or the Islamic community. If his speech is discussing a different place, time, and people, then he is totally discredited. This is precisely why the Qur’an was revealed over a period of twenty-three years. It dealt with events over time, and therefore, was most effective in its guidance. The Qur’an is a cure for social illnesses, but the speaker must diagnose the disease accurately. Then, he would extract from the Book or the Sunnah the required medication. This process requires experience. Otherwise, he would give the wrong medication and as a result would never be able to cure the disease. Furthermore, if he makes a mistake in the diagnosis, then his khutbah is useless, even if it includes a variety of authentic scripts.

6. There is a group of hadiths that promise tremendous rewards for simple deeds. Highly developed scholars warned that these hadiths should not be taken literally. They should be put into context. This means considering the level of sincerity of these good doers. Therefore, a speaker should never include these hadiths in his khutbah without proper explanation. Otherwise, he would create a disproportionate representation of the different categories of deeds.

7. Islamic education is meant to foster morals in society and explain the rewards or consequences thereof. There is no harm in mentioning the rewards for good and the punishment for evil in the Hereafter. But it is not recommended to spend the entire khutbah on intangible punishments and rewards.

8. It is beneficial to mention political and intellectual achievements in Islamic history. Islam founded a great civilization that sprang from the intellectual movement that the Qur’an initiated and the human consciousness that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) awoke. The objective behind such khutbahs is to raise self-confidence among Muslims and to remind them of their global mission.

9. It is well known that some foreign philosophies and atheism infiltrated the Muslim Ummah during its recent historical fall. Thus, it is natural that a good khutbah would refute such ideologies. The khutbah should avoid excessive arguments, but should focus on presenting the positive Islamic facts. It should, moreover, avoid the mentioning of names. The objective of the khutbah, rather, is to protect our spiritual and academic history, and not to defame others publicly.

10. Before facing the audience, a speaker should have a clear image of what he wants to say. He should rethink of his speech to ensure that he is presenting correct arguments that will not cause any negative psychological or social effects. He should also check his evidence. If it is a verse, he is to memorize it well, and if it is a hadith he should narrate it accurately. If he is quoting a book, then he should make his as close to the original as possible. Good preparation is a sign of respect to oneself and one’s audience.

However, sometimes, one is faced with a situation where he is forced to make a speech from the top of his head. The ability to make a speech on the spot comes after much experience with prepared speeches. After some time, one will have accumulated a wealth of speeches that enable the speaker to lecture in numerous situations. However, experience in winging it should not prevent a scholar from good preparation. This shows how much he desires to fulfill his obligation truthfully and how much he appreciates the attentiveness of the people to his message.

11. A khutbah that is concise enables the audience to better focus on its teachings and enables the speaker to convey the message more clearly. Excessive speech causes people to forget many details. The most important objectives of the khutbah might be lost in the midst of all these additions. Can’t one see that a piece of land needs only a certain number of seeds? A farmer must necessarily uproot the extra plants to enable the rest of the plants to grow and bear fruits. Similarly, a human soul does not absorb values unless they are well defined and well presented. Too much talk and presenting too many facts would cause the minds of the listeners to overflow with the information, regardless of how precious those facts are.

Insufficient preparation causes the speech to be too long and thus, boring to the audience. A speaker who moves randomly among rules and instructions is not sure about the effect of his speech and whether or not people are convinced or to what extent. He will keep repeating what he previously said, and will in the process lose the audience’s attention.

Excessive talk might also be caused by a misjudgment of time. A lack of common sense can lead the speaker to think that he needs to say all that he has to say, and that people have to listen attentively, whether or not they like it. This is a grave mistake. Conciseness requires making choices, canceling some parts, and confirming other parts. But random talk requires less effort. Actually, five minutes is enough to convey an immense amount of knowledge. And ten or fifteen minutes is enough for a good khutbah or lecture.”

Allah Almighty knows best.

[anajmi]

In reviewing your quotes it speaks of prayer which is not in question. You say "Friday prayers are required to be prayed in the Mosque" and that sermons are "compulsory" but what you documented does not reflect that.

You should just take my word for it.

[Al Zulfiqar]

to get back to the actual topic of muslim drivers/delivery men abusing the right to pray salah:

i had many muslim employees in the middle east as drivers, delivery men, van salesmen, merchandisers and sales executives, all part of a vast marketing and sales network. whereas most of them followed their religious desires to pray at salah timings and did so regularly but at the same time respected the company's and clients time, finishing the fard and sunnah without wasting time or loitering and lounging around, (max 10-15 mins) there were a few bad apples who considered it their right to take upto 45 mins and even 1 hour and beyond praying and sitting around in the masjids which they encountered along their routes, all on comapany time.

when confronted by management they pretended to be outraged as if we were infringing on their divine religious rights! these employees were a bad influence on others and disrupted our delivery schedules showing utter disregard for their work. after several gentle and friendly talks with them, mindful of the religious sensibilities; some paid heed, but there were one or two who defiantly flouted instructions. this attitude of theirs extended not just to this activity but to other spheres as well, both work related and personal. we had reports of them being belligerent and quarrelsome with their colleagues at work and at the staff quarters where facilities like bathrooms and dining rooms etc were shared.

after several warnings, i personally had to terminate the services of 2 such individuals. of course their disciplinary infringements were well recorded as they included verbal and physical abuse and fights with their colleagues and even clients. my observation was that those who were motivated purely by their faith and duty to pray, respected also the rights of the company on their time and their duty towards their jobs, but those who deliberately abused their rights and privileges were in fact rascals, not just because they disrespected their jobs but everyone else in general.

my question is, does the employee who spends an inordinate time in prayer on company time more religious and pious whilst he abuses his rights and disrespects everyone and everything around him? will his prayers even be accepted? such a person is a thief and a kafir.

[Muslim First]

such a person is a thief and a kafir.

Thief Indeed
Kafir ?

[Muslim First]

For U.S. Muslims, Work-Time Prayer a Struggle
http://www.islamicity.com/m/news_frame. ... ceID=61094
By Omar Sacirbey
Religion News Service

Dr. Syed Malik is a devoted Muslim who tries, and mostly succeeds, to pray five times per day, as demanded by his Islamic faith.

He is also an accomplished general surgeon in Orlando, Fla., who does complex operations that can last hours.

Malik, 66, would never leave an operating table to pray. Instead, when surgery and prayer times conflict, he performs prayers before surgery or makes them up after.
"I don't care if this goes against what some scholars say, I feel very comfortable with how I approach prayers," said Malik.

In fact, Islamic scholars generally agree that while prayers command high priority, they can be missed or performed later in extenuating circumstances.

While Muslims differ about what constitutes extenuating circumstances, many successfully integrate prayer into their workday, often with help from their employers.

This month (October), Hertz fired 25 Somali Muslim drivers ( http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/2 ... 24708.html ) at the Seattle-Tacoma International Airport who refused to sign an agreement pledging to clock out during prayer breaks.
Hertz says they initially allowed Muslim workers to pray during two paid daily breaks of 10 minutes each but many workers took more than 10 minutes. Nine Muslim workers signed the pledge.

The workers' union is challenging Hertz. But some Islamic scholars say that the rental car company offered the workers a solution compatible with their Islamic beliefs.
"Employers have the right to protect themselves. Unfortunately, there are Muslims who abuse the system," said Imam Yahya Hendi, president of Clergy without Borders, an interfaith organization in Washington, D.C.

Hendi said that it was un-Islamic to accept pay for work one did not perform, and chastised the fired Hertz workers for making Islam seem "complicated" and "inadaptable to America."

"If Muslims can do it on their own time, this is the idea," said Zulfiqar Ali Shah, executive director of the North American Fiqh Council, a group of religious leaders who offer guidance on Islamic law.
"If there's a conflict between prayer and work, the Muslims should accommodate to work," said Shah.
To emphasize that point, Muslims point to a hadith, or story, about Prophet Muhammad in which he prayed the midday and afternoon prayers together.

Most scholars recognize the exception, but caution that it should be used judiciously, and not just to avoid uncomfortable situations.

"Would you step out of a meeting to use the bathroom or take a call from your son? Then why not take a few minutes to be with God?" said Hossam Al Jabri, an imam in Boston and former executive director of the Muslim American Society, an advocacy group.

"Being a little inconvenienced for the sake of God is not such a bad thing."

Most Muslims can complete their prayers in three to five minutes, although pre-prayer ablutions, or ritual washing, can take almost as long.

For each of the five prayers - pre-dawn, noon, afternoon, sunset, and night -- Muslims have a few hours to make them, although some say prayers are best when made early. These times change throughout the year as the length of the days varies.

Many Muslims find that employers are happy to accommodate their prayer needs.
In his 20 years with the same company in Los Angeles, IT Manager Soheil Naimi has seen supervisors come and go, but none ever prevented him from praying.
In fact, Naimi's prayer space has improved as he's been promoted. When he started, he had no office and used to pray in open conference rooms.
He later received a cubicle that was big enough to pray in, but was often interrupted by co-workers, who he tuned out while praying.
"I don't think I offended anyone," said Naimi, who asked that his company not be named. He now has his own office, so praying is easy. The only time performing prayers can be hard is when he's out of the office, said Naimi, who has prayed in his car, in a bathroom, and has occasionally missed prayer altogether.
Kelly Kaufmann, a program manager at a Chicago health insurance company, keeps a prayer rug in a Macy's tote bag at her office, and reserves one of her company's many meeting rooms twice daily for 30 minutes. Kaufmann, who also asked that her company not be named, text messages Muslim co-workers to let them know when she has a room reserved.
"I am lucky that I make my own schedule and control when my meetings are, and can simply come to work earlier or stay later if needed to ensure the time taken to pray does not interfere with the amount of work I wanted to accomplish during the day," Kaufmann said