Queries regards to Quran

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anajmi
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Re: Queries regards to Quran

#61

Unread post by anajmi » Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:29 pm

Can you please post the arabic text of what Imam Jafar Sadik has said? Is it the same as the ayah? If not, then he has committed blasphemy by choosing to describe God in his own words. Did Imam Jafar Sadik forget about the jugular? God doesn't say he is nearer to him than himself. He is saying he is nearer to him than his jugular. Being smarter than God, you should've been able to catch that.

anajmi
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Re: Queries regards to Quran

#62

Unread post by anajmi » Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:41 pm

Take a look at this

http://www.duas.org/miraclesermons.htm

Hazrat Ali (ra) has gone all out describing Allah in his own words avoiding dots and Alifs. What was he thinking?

Aymelek
Posts: 145
Joined: Wed May 11, 2011 3:14 am

Re: Queries regards to Quran

#63

Unread post by Aymelek » Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:59 am

Br. Anajmi,

Below is the extract of the 2nd sermon (from the link provided by you) by Hz. Ali :

“He, first and foremost, is a unique Lord in His exaltation, able through His might, holy through His sublimity, proud of His Majesty; no (mental) vision can realize Him, nor can anyone ever see Him. He is strong, invincible, seeing, hearing, clement, wise, affectionate and kind. One who attempts to describe Him can never do so; one who attempts to describe His attributes can never do so [either]. His blessing reaches those who get to know Him: He is near, so He is far [above mental or physical vision]; He is far yet He is near [closer to us than anything else].”

Let us look at the description given by Hz. Ali, he says God is strong, invincible, seeing, hearing, clement, wise, affectionate and kind. These are the attributes defined by God himself in Quran (Al-Qawwīy, Al Basir, As Sami, Al Latif, Al Hakim, Al Wadud , etc.

Thus what Hz. Ali is doing is just simply repeating those attributes for easier understanding. He further goes on to say… “One who attempts to describe Him can never do so; one who attempts to describe His attributes can never do so”

What does this suggest??

It suggests that God cannot be fully comprehended or grasped by the human mind. Our intelligence is fitted for piecemeal learning about the things which we see, touch, taste, and hear. It is not capable to grasp the infinite in any full and final sense. When we think about God, we must use our reason and reflect upon our experience. Our limitation is that we think about God in human terms and in terms of our human life. If we try to avoid thinking about God in this fashion we will be obliged to think of Him as though He is either a machine or a blind force. But we do not, in reality, speak of ‘It’ when we mention God, we speak of Him. That means that God is better understood as being personal rather than impersonal. Obviously, He is not a person in just the same sense in which we are persons. That would be quite absurd, for it would negate the infinite nature of God.

Have you ever heard this sufi proverb:
I searched for God and found only myself. I searched for myself and found only God.

Something to ponder over…isn’t it. 

anajmi
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Re: Queries regards to Quran

#64

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:20 am

I searched for God and found only myself. I searched for myself and found only God.
So in other words Sufis are Gods?
Thus what Hz. Ali is doing is just simply repeating those attributes for easier understanding.
الحمد لله الملك المحمود
I couldn't find the attribute "Al Mahmood" in the Quran. If you do please let me know.

Neither could I find this one
ومآل كل مطرود

Thanks

porus
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Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Queries regards to Quran

#65

Unread post by porus » Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:44 pm

Aymelek wrote: Have you ever heard this sufi proverb:
I searched for God and found only myself. I searched for myself and found only God.
Something to ponder over…isn’t it. 
Indeed. The Sufi saying is just a paraphrase of a saying attributed to Nabi Muhammad:

من عرف نفسه فعرف ربه

anajmi wrote: الحمد لله الملك المحمود
I couldn't find the attribute "Al Mahmood" in the Quran. If you do please let me know.
Mahmood is rooted in Hamd. Like Muhammad and Hameed, it means praiseworthy. Al-Fatiha starts with praise to Allah and al-Hameed is one of His names.
anajmi wrote: Neither could I find this one
ومآل كل مطرود
Satisfier or Embracer of all who have been foresaken.

Or the end of all that has been expelled (from paradise?)

Both mala:a and maTrood have multiple meanings but all convey the meaning that ultimately to Him is the return.

If one is not to translate words of the Quran, then why call Allah 'Great' or "Praiseworthy" or "Merciful"?

anajmi
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Re: Queries regards to Quran

#66

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:11 pm

If one is not to translate words of the Quran, then why call Allah 'Great' or "Praiseworthy" or "Merciful"?
So you are saying it is ok to say "Great" or "Praiseworthy" or "Merciful" and other things as long as it is an attempt at a translation and we can describe Allah in our own Arabic words as long as the roots can be traced back to the Quranic names/attributes right?

anajmi
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Re: Queries regards to Quran

#67

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:15 pm

Indeed. The Sufi saying is just a paraphrase of a saying attributed to Nabi Muhammad:
By whom and where is it recorded?

porus
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Re: Queries regards to Quran

#68

Unread post by porus » Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:27 pm

anajmi wrote: So you are saying it is ok to say "Great" or "Praiseworthy" or "Merciful" and other things as long as it is an attempt at a translation and we can describe Allah in our own Arabic words as long as the roots can be traced back to the Quranic names/attributes right?
Right. But you do not describe Allah, you just call Him by His names/attributes.
anajmi wrote:
Indeed. The Sufi saying is just a paraphrase of a saying attributed to Nabi Muhammad:
By whom and where is it recorded?
That is an exercise for you. You could do worse than simply start googling!

anajmi
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Re: Queries regards to Quran

#69

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:42 pm

Right. But you do not describe Allah, you just call Him by His names/attributes.
So referring to Allah as "He" is simply referring to him (in a translation) as he has chosen to refer to himself in the Quran. And that leads us to the question, why does Allah choose to refer to himself as a "He" in the quran and the most logical answer to that as per porus is - Do not describe Allah. Brilliant!!
That is an exercise for you. You could do worse than simply start googling!
Which in other words means that you do not know.

anajmi
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Re: Queries regards to Quran

#70

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:45 pm

Right. But you do not describe Allah, you just call Him by His names/attributes.
Also remember, Al Mahmood is not a name that Allah has chosen for himself. Hazrat Ali (ra) has chosen it to describe God. That actually applies to the entire sermon of Hazrat Ali (ra). He is describing Allah.

anajmi
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Re: Queries regards to Quran

#71

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:54 pm

من عرف نفسه فعرف ربه
Normally, when someone asks you to do your own research, you can assume that the source is not reliable. So rather than quote an unreliable source, you are asked to do your own research. So, I did and here is what I found.

"The hadith: 'Whoever knows themselves knows their Lord.
Abu al-Mudhaffar ibn al-Sam`ani said....,"It is not established as a Prophetic hadith. Rather, it is related from Yahya ibn al-Mu`adh al-Razi--that is, from his words."
This is also what Imam Nawawi said, affirming that, "It is not established." [Sakhawi, al-Maqasid al-Hasana 1.220]
Imam Saghani considered it a fabricated (mawdu`) hadith. [Saghani, al-Mawdu`at, 1.2] Other major works on fabricated hadiths state likewise.


Oops. :wink:

feelgud
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Re: Queries regards to Quran

#72

Unread post by feelgud » Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:24 am

porus wrote:
من عرف نفسه فعرف ربه
most of the sufi quotes are philosophical expressions of quran which sometimes lead 'aarif'[seeker]to confusion.we must keep in our mind that the sufi's goal is to seek nearness of allah.

plz read the below verse-
41:53 “Soon will We show them our Signs on the horizons, and within their own nafs, until it becomes manifest to them that this is the Truth.”

Allah's signs[ayaat]are spreaded all over the universe along with one's own 'self'.

since we cant get complete idea about our creator, as quran declare 'kamislehi shai'aa''[nothing like him]
we have brief idea about the ' sifaat'we get from quran] about our creator.we know only what he taught us about him,so it is advised for a seeker to look for his signs in his surroundings.

But the most easiest and common observations one can have is his/her own 'self'.
who am i ?,why i am here,?purpose of my life? etc etc.....this will lead him to his creator.
'' ‎"O thou soul that art at rest, and restest fully contented with thy Lord return to thy Lord. He pleased with thee and thou pleased with him; So enter among my servants and enter into my paradise."
[al fajr 89 last verses]

ghulam muhammed
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Re: Queries regards to Quran

#73

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:57 pm

feelgud wrote:who am i ?,why i am here,?purpose of my life? etc etc.....this will lead him to his creator
Some Sufi quotes :-

"Pehle is hasti-e-faani ko mita,
Phir dekh, tujhko tujhme kya kya nazar aata hai".

"Dard-e-dil ke vaaste paida kiya insan ko,
Warna Taa-at ke liye kam na thi karubiya".