Poetry on Maula Ali

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sixfeetunder
Posts: 433
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:48 am

Re: Poetry on Maula Ali

#61

Unread post by sixfeetunder » Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:12 am

anajmi wrote:
Eendhan bana dey mujh ko Jahannum ka, aye Khuda,
Allah says in the Quran that humans and stones are going to be the fuel of the fire in hell. Now we know where the humans are going to come from.
If I end up unworthy of paradise, I would love to do the job. I'm preparing a list of people and categories I would like to burn. Right now, I can only imagine something else burning. Hearts of those who don't love Ali (a.s) are burning.

mukhlis52
Posts: 44
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:35 am

Re: Poetry on Maula Ali

#62

Unread post by mukhlis52 » Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:16 am

anajmi wrote:I will just ask a couple of questions, the rest can be easily understood.

Badr me aaya to Fateh badr kehlaya,
Who gave Ali the title of Fateh Badr? Was it the prophet (saw) or was it an over zealous Ali worshipper?

Ohud me aaya to Naasir e rasool(sa) kehlaya,
Same question.

Takht par aaya to Amirul mumeneen kehlaya,
This is the problem with the Shias. They still consider the seat of khilafat to be a throne. The first three khalifas are also known as Amirul Mumeneen.

Bottom line, there is a reason why people in Mecca, after reading the Quran, gave up on shair and shairy. Unfortunately, some people will never learn. They will display pride in their shirk astagfirullah. These are the people that are at most risk.
This is poetry. Not a Firmaan that you are understanding it to be issued by a Diwan (Portfolio) of Ali AS. In poetry, there is a strong connection of literature and literary similies, metaphors etc. Therefore you can tone down on the literal meanings regarding them official titles.

As far as the First three being known as Amir ul Mumineen, you are correct. They are just 'known' likewise styled thus by Abbasid Chroniclers while in actuality it is Amir ul Mumineen Ali AS who took this title for himself. Before he styled himself thus, none had done so and were styled merely as Khaleefat ul Rasool.

Your bottom line has to be refuted by a simple question. Have you heard about Hassan bin Thabit?

anajmi
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Re: Poetry on Maula Ali

#63

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:47 am

Hearts of those who don't love Ali (a.s) are burning.
And that is because you can write poetry? I mean seriously!! What do the "lovers" of Hazrat Ali smoke?

sixfeetunder
Posts: 433
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Re: Poetry on Maula Ali

#64

Unread post by sixfeetunder » Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:31 am

anajmi wrote:
Hearts of those who don't love Ali (a.s) are burning.
And that is because you can write poetry? I mean seriously!! What do the "lovers" of Hazrat Ali smoke?
Your jealousy is evident everywhere, in every thread where Ali (a.s) is praised. You cannot take it. Accept it. Live with it. You're jealous.

mukhlis52
Posts: 44
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:35 am

Re: Poetry on Maula Ali

#65

Unread post by mukhlis52 » Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:33 am

anajmi wrote:
Hearts of those who don't love Ali (a.s) are burning.
And that is because you can write poetry? I mean seriously!! What do the "lovers" of Hazrat Ali smoke?
your heart is burning - the she'r smoked it :D

anajmi
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Re: Poetry on Maula Ali

#66

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:53 am

Why would I be jealous of Hazrat Ali being praised? You should be jealous of me. I spend my time praising someone who is infinitely more powerful than Hazrat Ali. And as per the Quran, which you guys have replaced with poetry, is the only one deserving of praise!! Besides, you already know your end, which is not where I want to be. Why would I be jealous of the fuel of fire? Seriously, what do you guys smoke?

anajmi
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Re: Poetry on Maula Ali

#67

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:36 am

This is poetry. Not a Firmaan that you are understanding it to be issued by a Diwan (Portfolio) of Ali AS. In poetry, there is a strong connection of literature and literary similies, metaphors etc. Therefore you can tone down on the literal meanings regarding them official titles.
So in short, you are saying that these titles are given to Hazrat Ali by the poets right? Hence, these titles mean nothing. I call my son the king of the neighbourhood in a poem that I wrote for him. Doesn't mean he is the king of the neighbourhood. Similarly, we can say that Hazrat Ali isn't Fateh Badr, some over zealous poet just chose to call him that.
it is Amir ul Mumineen Ali AS who took this title for himself.
Wow!! Hazrat Ali, whom I had always known to have been extremely humble, is giving himself these glamourous titles. What kind of a person gives himself titles? Surely not a servant of God!! Here is the bottom line, anyone who gives himself any kind of title, is not deserving of that title.

And yes I have heard of Hassan bin Thabit. He wrote poetry to defend the prophet (saw) against the poets of the pagans who berated him in their poetry. Besides, Allah himself has honored the prophet (saw) in the greatest poetry of all, the Quran. The prophet (saw) didn't give himself any titles. He was called mercy for all mankind by Allah himself.

mukhlis52
Posts: 44
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:35 am

Re: Poetry on Maula Ali

#68

Unread post by mukhlis52 » Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:53 am

anajmi wrote:
This is poetry. Not a Firmaan that you are understanding it to be issued by a Diwan (Portfolio) of Ali AS. In poetry, there is a strong connection of literature and literary similies, metaphors etc. Therefore you can tone down on the literal meanings regarding them official titles.
So in short, you are saying that these titles are given to Hazrat Ali by the poets right? Hence, these titles mean nothing. I call my son the king of the neighbourhood in a poem that I wrote for him. Doesn't mean he is the king of the neighbourhood. Similarly, we can say that Hazrat Ali isn't Fateh Badr, some over zealous poet just chose to call him that.
it is Amir ul Mumineen Ali AS who took this title for himself.
Wow!! Hazrat Ali, whom I had always known to have been extremely humble, is giving himself these glamourous titles. What kind of a person gives himself titles? Surely not a servant of God!! Here is the bottom line, anyone who gives himself any kind of title, is not deserving of that title.

And yes I have heard of Hassan bin Thabit. He wrote poetry to defend the prophet (saw) against the poets of the pagans who berated him in their poetry. Besides, Allah himself has honored the prophet (saw) in the greatest poetry of all, the Quran. The prophet (saw) didn't give himself any titles. He was called mercy for all mankind by Allah himself.
You fail to grasp the intention of poetry. Again I repeat, Faateh e Badr is a poetical title NOT an actual title of Amir ul Mumineen Ali AS. The motive of a poet is to encompass loads of meanings in as short phrases, syllables and words as possible. Faateh e Badr et al are such examples.

You grossly misunderstood the quoted statement regarding Amirul Mumineen Ali AS. Ali AS did NOT invent the title of Amirul Mumineen. He merely chose it to be prefixed before his name in official documents where required as such. Also, people used the title Amirul Mumineen while conversing with him.
The 'term' or 'title' Amirul Mumineen was given/conferred upon Ali AS on the day of Ghadeer and even before that. It was Rasulullah who directed Muslimeen to call Ali AS as Amirul Mumineen. Just like Allah AJ bestowed titles upon Nabi Muhammad SAW, Similarly, Nabi Mohammad Bestowed this title among others on his heir apparent, Amirul Mumineen , Maulana Ali ibn Abi Talib.

anajmi
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Re: Poetry on Maula Ali

#69

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:44 pm

Now you are going into the land of fairy tales.
It was Rasulullah who directed Muslimeen to call Ali AS as Amirul Mumineen.
Not a fact but fiction.

I know the purpose of poetry. One of the biggest purposes of poetry is convey a thought through exaggeration. I am not interested in the intention of poetry written glorifying Hazrat Ali. It's intention is obviously to glorify Hazrat Ali through exaggerations and attributing qualities to him that are not his domain. I prefer to stay away from this shirk.

SBM
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Re: Poetry on Maula Ali

#70

Unread post by SBM » Wed Jun 06, 2012 1:07 pm

I prefer to stay away from this shirk.
It seems the word Shirk and Mushrik has been used very liberally
WHAT EXACTLY IS SHIRK?If Praising is shirk then a good number of Indian/Pakistani Muslims will be Mushrik since they praise
Khawaju Gharib Nawaz-Makhdum Shah Baba-Moinuddin Chisti and many others. They are all praised for their piety and honesty.
Again people have to judge the intent, praising in poetry does not prove the intent of the people it is just poetry and Urdu language is filled with such praises.
Is saying Naat for Prophet Mohammed SAW would also be considered shirk according to your opinion?

MurtazaVds
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Re: Poetry on Maula Ali

#71

Unread post by MurtazaVds » Wed Jun 06, 2012 1:25 pm

Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) had said in the event of ghadeer - e - qum: MAN KUNTO MAULA FAHAZA ALI UN MAULA (jis jis ka mai maula us ka ali maula)

anajmi do you accept that or not

anajmi
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Re: Poetry on Maula Ali

#72

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Jun 06, 2012 1:33 pm

SBM,

I am not sure about Naats because I do not listen to Naats about the prophet (saw) and I do not know what they say. If I listen to them I might be able to tell you if they are pushing the limits or not.

Praising is not shirk. Shirk is this

'Lam Yulad' Pe Yakin Hai Mera Yaa Rab, magar...
Tere Ghar se Kisi Bachche Ki Sadaa Aati Hai !!!

"............Gar Kaabe me na karte Ali jo sajda,
To Nusairi to Nusairi,Saara Aalam unhe Khuda kehta."

Is it that hard to see the difference?

mukhlis52
Posts: 44
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Re: Poetry on Maula Ali

#73

Unread post by mukhlis52 » Wed Jun 06, 2012 1:53 pm

anajmi wrote:Now you are going into the land of fairy tales.
It was Rasulullah who directed Muslimeen to call Ali AS as Amirul Mumineen.
Not a fact but fiction.

I know the purpose of poetry. One of the biggest purposes of poetry is convey a thought through exaggeration. I am not interested in the intention of poetry written glorifying Hazrat Ali. It's intention is obviously to glorify Hazrat Ali through exaggerations and attributing qualities to him that are not his domain. I prefer to stay away from this shirk.
Sad to know you are not part of our Jannat.

Anyway, to each his opinion. Who cares for you by the way. Seeing your posts, I remember Ali AS's words to Harith e Hamdan -

Yaa Haare Hamdaana Man Yamut Yarani * Min Mumenin aw Munafeqin Ajala
O Harith, Whoever dies be it a Believer or a Dissident, shall see me (after his death)

Ya'refoni Tarfohu wa A'refohu * Be Ismehi wal Kuna wama Fa'ala
His eyes will recall me and I shall recall him - by his name, teknonym and his deeds

anajmi
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Re: Poetry on Maula Ali

#74

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:00 pm

Yaa Haare Hamdaana Man Yamut Yarani * Min Mumenin aw Munafeqin Ajala
O Harith, Whoever dies be it a Believer or a Dissident, shall see me (after his death)

Ya'refoni Tarfohu wa A'refohu * Be Ismehi wal Kuna wama Fa'ala
His eyes will recall me and I shall recall him - by his name, teknonym and his deeds
You can go see Hazrat Ali after you die, because I will be going to see Allah and HE will be calling me by my name and handing me my book of deeds. Atleast, that is how it's going to be as per the Quran.

Muslim First
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Re: Poetry on Maula Ali

#75

Unread post by Muslim First » Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:05 pm

SBM wrote:
I prefer to stay away from this shirk.
It seems the word Shirk and Mushrik has been used very liberally
WHAT EXACTLY IS SHIRK?If Praising is shirk then a good number of Indian/Pakistani Muslims will be Mushrik since they praise
Khawaju Gharib Nawaz-Makhdum Shah Baba-Moinuddin Chisti and many others. They are all praised for their piety and honesty.
Again people have to judge the intent, praising in poetry does not prove the intent of the people it is just poetry and Urdu language is filled with such praises.
Is saying Naat for Prophet Mohammed SAW would also be considered shirk according to your opinion?
I seek your pardon since I am scared of your bite.
Anybody who heap excessive praise or believe in some dead saint has some way to get help from Allah is guilty of minor or major shirk. Many Muslims are guilty of it.
Please excuse me for butting in
Wasalaam

Muslim First
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Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Poetry on Maula Ali

#76

Unread post by Muslim First » Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:08 pm

mukhlis52 wrote:
anajmi wrote:Now you are going into the land of fairy tales.
Not a fact but fiction.

Anyway, to each his opinion. Who cares for you by the way. Seeing your posts, I remember Ali AS's words to Harith e Hamdan - (I am sure you were not present when Hz Ali said this)

Yaa Haare Hamdaana Man Yamut Yarani * Min Mumenin aw Munafeqin Ajala
O Harith, Whoever dies be it a Believer or a Dissident, shall see me (after his death)

Ya'refoni Tarfohu wa A'refohu * Be Ismehi wal Kuna wama Fa'ala
His eyes will recall me and I shall recall him - by his name, teknonym and his deeds
there is no support in Qur'an or Sunna that Hz Ali will have special post before the Prophet
Please quote authentic sources
Last edited by Muslim First on Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

SBM
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Re: Poetry on Maula Ali

#77

Unread post by SBM » Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:13 pm

I am scared of your bite.
Br MF
I am not any one's attack dog and you should not be scared of any bite coming from me :P
Since the word Shirk and Mushrik has been used very liberally on this forum I just wanted clarification and as per you many Muslims are guilty of this, then do you think there is something wrong in our system since Islamic teachings are based on Quran-Sunnah and Ijtema. You are free to butt in since this is a free forum as long as we all can be tolerant and respectful of each others views and beliefs
Wasalaam

Muslim First
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Re: Poetry on Maula Ali

#78

Unread post by Muslim First » Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:23 pm

I am not being disrespectfull to anybody. Some of the poetry is questioned since it is not as per Qur'an or Sunna.
I am trying very hard to leave it alone.

Muslim First
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Re: Poetry on Maula Ali

#79

Unread post by Muslim First » Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:32 pm

MurtazaVds wrote:Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) had said in the event of ghadeer - e - qum: MAN KUNTO MAULA FAHAZA ALI UN MAULA (jis jis ka mai maula us ka ali maula)

anajmi do you accept that or not
Yes whole umma accepts it.

Does it mean
O Ali, I am king of Islam, you are my crown prince.
I bestow title of Amirul momeen on you. I give you franchise of Islam to be inharited by your progeny?

(see what happened, 3 or four groups are fighting for this so called franchise )

mukhlis52
Posts: 44
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:35 am

Re: Poetry on Maula Ali

#80

Unread post by mukhlis52 » Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:05 pm

I am sorry about not giving further answers to Muslim First and anajmi because there is no point in inventing the wheel again.
If you are contesting the basis of Shia beliefs, you can visit any Shia Forum for that matter or read Shia/Ismaili/Taiyebi books to satisfy your doubts, I'm not going to debate on something which has already been concluded. I retorted to anajmi because I did not realise that he was a habi. Muslim First, sources authentic to you might not be authentic to me and vice versa, although my arguments can be extracted from books of Ahl as Sunnah disregarding fanatical Habi works in recent history.


Lastly, as this is becoming a series of trysts with habis, What is your version of this Aayah - يا أيها الذين امنوا اتقوا الله وابتغوا إليه الوسيلة ؟؟

anajmi
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Re: Poetry on Maula Ali

#81

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:02 pm

Question is - what is your version of this ayah? Do you think Allah will leave the way to obtain nearness to him in taaweel instead of making it crystal clear?

mukhlis52
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Re: Poetry on Maula Ali

#82

Unread post by mukhlis52 » Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:28 am

anajmi wrote:Question is - what is your version of this ayah? Do you think Allah will leave the way to obtain nearness to him in taaweel instead of making it crystal clear?
Counter questioning will lead to more counter questioning. Why don't you answer my simple question before counter questioning me?

profastian
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Re: Poetry on Maula Ali

#83

Unread post by profastian » Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:34 am

anajmi wrote:
Yaa Haare Hamdaana Man Yamut Yarani * Min Mumenin aw Munafeqin Ajala
O Harith, Whoever dies be it a Believer or a Dissident, shall see me (after his death)

Ya'refoni Tarfohu wa A'refohu * Be Ismehi wal Kuna wama Fa'ala
His eyes will recall me and I shall recall him - by his name, teknonym and his deeds
You can go see Hazrat Ali after you die, because I will be going to see Allah and HE will be calling me by my name and handing me my book of deeds. Atleast, that is how it's going to be as per the Quran.
So in short you are of the opinion that Ali spoke falsehood when he said these lines to Haris?

profastian
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Re: Poetry on Maula Ali

#84

Unread post by profastian » Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:35 am

anajmi wrote:
Yaa Haare Hamdaana Man Yamut Yarani * Min Mumenin aw Munafeqin Ajala
O Harith, Whoever dies be it a Believer or a Dissident, shall see me (after his death)

Ya'refoni Tarfohu wa A'refohu * Be Ismehi wal Kuna wama Fa'ala
His eyes will recall me and I shall recall him - by his name, teknonym and his deeds
You can go see Hazrat Ali after you die, because I will be going to see Allah and HE will be calling me by my name and handing me my book of deeds. Atleast, that is how it's going to be as per the Quran.
And you are of the opinion that Allah would speak and has hands, making you a mushrik :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

sixfeetunder
Posts: 433
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Re: Poetry on Maula Ali

#85

Unread post by sixfeetunder » Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:54 am

anajmi wrote:Why would I be jealous of Hazrat Ali being praised? You should be jealous of me. I spend my time praising someone who is infinitely more powerful than Hazrat Ali. And as per the Quran, which you guys have replaced with poetry, is the only one deserving of praise!! Besides, you already know your end, which is not where I want to be. Why would I be jealous of the fuel of fire? Seriously, what do you guys smoke?
Every Muslim praises Allah. Muslims also praise Muhammad (s.a.w) and Ali (a.s) because they are supreme creations of the Almighty. Praising the painting is also praising the artist. The problem with you Wahhabis is that you people have separated the creation from the creator, to such a huge extent that you have made Allah anthropomorphic.

This is obviously going to happen if Ibn Abdul Wahhab and Ibn Taymiyya's bedouin interpretation of the verses is to be followed blindly. Any literal (read Wahhabi) interpretation of verses is dangerous. Why are almost all terrorists Wahhabis? That is because the Wahhabi interpretation of Quran is literal and wrong. It only spreads hatred.

People fear Muslims due to these animals. First cleanse your heart of hatred for Shias and non-Muslims and then start calling yourself a Muslim.

sixfeetunder
Posts: 433
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:48 am

Re: Poetry on Maula Ali

#86

Unread post by sixfeetunder » Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:59 am

anajmi wrote:
Yaa Haare Hamdaana Man Yamut Yarani * Min Mumenin aw Munafeqin Ajala
O Harith, Whoever dies be it a Believer or a Dissident, shall see me (after his death)

Ya'refoni Tarfohu wa A'refohu * Be Ismehi wal Kuna wama Fa'ala
His eyes will recall me and I shall recall him - by his name, teknonym and his deeds
You can go see Hazrat Ali after you die, because I will be going to see Allah and HE will be calling me by my name and handing me my book of deeds. Atleast, that is how it's going to be as per the Quran.
There you go. You can continue worshiping your anthropomorphic Allah. You can continue with your literal interpretation of the Quran and continue imagining your god with Hand, legs, mouth and what not! I have nothing left to say. I pity your interpretation of the verses. You think you will physically 'see' Allah with your eyes? That is the funniest thing I've heard in a long time. Allah is not seen with eyes but seen with conviction of the heart, Mr.Najmuddin. The one which can be seen is not The Almighty. It is a figment of your infertile imagination.

sixfeetunder
Posts: 433
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Re: Poetry on Maula Ali

#87

Unread post by sixfeetunder » Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:38 am

Muslim First wrote:
MurtazaVds wrote:Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) had said in the event of ghadeer - e - qum: MAN KUNTO MAULA FAHAZA ALI UN MAULA (jis jis ka mai maula us ka ali maula)

anajmi do you accept that or not
Yes whole umma accepts it.

Does it mean
O Ali, I am king of Islam, you are my crown prince.
I bestow title of Amirul momeen on you. I give you franchise of Islam to be inharited by your progeny?

(see what happened, 3 or four groups are fighting for this so called franchise )
There is no franchise as such. To simply put it, the most meritorious shall deserve the succession to The Prophet. The most meritorious was Ali (a.s), as history shows. As for the progeny of the Prophet, again historical facts and figures will tell you who was more meritorious. So it is as simple as that.

Ali (a.s) and Fatima (a.s)'s progeny is the Prophet's (saw) progeny. But in your hatred for Ahlul bayt, you try to distance the Prophet from his progeny.

As for the 3-4 groups you are talking about, most of these groups are miniscule and diverted from the right path, as is evident for everyone to see. First, accept Ali (a.s) as most meritorious and then think further. Don't get stuck in limbo.

profastian
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Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:00 am

Re: Poetry on Maula Ali

#88

Unread post by profastian » Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:43 am

mukhlis52 wrote:Yaa Haare Hamdaana Man Yamut Yarani * Min Mumenin aw Munafeqin Ajala
O Harith, Whoever dies be it a Believer or a Dissident, shall see me (after his death)

Ya'refoni Tarfohu wa A'refohu * Be Ismehi wal Kuna wama Fa'ala
His eyes will recall me and I shall recall him - by his name, teknonym and his deeds
oqulo lel naar wa hayeya tu zarim laka ................abde ala harrohaa daiyan rojolaa.

Can anyone post Yaa Haare Hamdan in full? Whenever I(or any momin) hears it my eyes tear up and my heart is filled with hope and joy

Muslim First
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Re: Poetry on Maula Ali

#89

Unread post by Muslim First » Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:09 am

6'U wrote
Ali (a.s) and Fatima (a.s)'s progeny is the Prophet's (saw) progeny. But in your hatred for Ahlul bayt (AB), you try to distance the Prophet from his progeny
Your assertion that I hate AB or Sunnis hate AB deserves nothing but contempt and should be dismissed as cheap Shia propaganda. Any further discussion will be waste of time and digital ink on this website.
We will go on giving AB due respect they deserve. You may go on worshipping your Taguts (AB).
Wasalaam

mukhlis52
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Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:35 am

Re: Poetry on Maula Ali

#90

Unread post by mukhlis52 » Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:25 am

profastian wrote:
mukhlis52 wrote:Yaa Haare Hamdaana Man Yamut Yarani * Min Mumenin aw Munafeqin Ajala
O Harith, Whoever dies be it a Believer or a Dissident, shall see me (after his death)

Ya'refoni Tarfohu wa A'refohu * Be Ismehi wal Kuna wama Fa'ala
His eyes will recall me and I shall recall him - by his name, teknonym and his deeds
oqulo lel naar wa hayeya tu zarim laka ................abde ala harrohaa daiyan rojolaa.

Can anyone post Yaa Haare Hamdan in full? Whenever I(or any momin) hears it my eyes tear up and my heart is filled with hope and joy

ياحار همدان من يمت يرني من مؤمن او منافق اجلا
يعرفني طـــرفه واعــرفه باسمه والكنى وما فعــلا
اقول للنار وهي تضرم للعبد على حرها دعي الرجـــــلا
دعـــيه لا تقــــربيه ان لــــــه حبلا بحبل الوصي متصلا
وانت عند الصراط تعرفني فلا تخف نكبـــة ولا زلـــلا
اسقيك من شربة على ظماء تخالها في الحلاوة العسلا