Poetry on Maula Ali

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anajmi
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Re: Poetry on Maula Ali

#121

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:33 am

I am grateful to you for not blowing up innocents in the name of your anthropomorphic god.
How do the shia compensate for the lack of this anthropomorphic god? They turn towards Hazrat Ali. That is the definition of shirk 101!!

God cannot hear you (despite the fact that he says he can hear) because he doesn't have ears, becauce he is not anthropomorphic. So no need to say Ya Allah. Ali can hear you, so say Ya Ali.
God cannot see you (despite the fact that he says he can) because he doesn't have eyes, because he is not anthropomorphic. So not need to see Allah on the day of judgement. Ali can see you, so we will go see Ali.
God says we will meet him on the day of judgement. But we cannot meet him because he is not anthromorphic. So no need to meet him on the day of judgement, we will go and meet Hazrat Ali instead!!

Brilliant. And these people still insist that they are not mushriks!!

anajmi
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Re: Poetry on Maula Ali

#122

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:07 am

porus wrote:
mukhlis52 wrote:
Kullo Man Alaiha Faanin Wa Yabqaa Waj'ho Rabbika Zu alJalaale Wa alIkraam
Meaning "Everything (literally, everyone) will cease to exist except your Lord's "face""

I wonder what use will the Lord have for His" face", without arms and other parts of His body. He will not even have hands to hold a non-existent mirror to admire His own "face" :!:
Actually, Allah is talking about the face of Hazrat Ali, because Allah is not anthromorphic and he cannot have a face, but Hazrat Ali does!! Shia interpretation, not mine.

anajmi
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Re: Poetry on Maula Ali

#123

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:07 pm

Extremist Wahhabis use the Quran and ahadith to justify their brutal acts and hence they are malicious and dangerous.
So since extremist wahhabis use the Quran to justify their brutal acts, it is ok for the rest of us peaceful folks to also justify our idol worship as long as we don't kill anybody. And since we are not killing anybody, no one can tell us that idol worship is wrong. Because if you do, then we will tell you that you kill people!!

mukhlis52
Posts: 44
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:35 am

Re: Poetry on Maula Ali

#124

Unread post by mukhlis52 » Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:56 pm

porus wrote:[quote="mukhlis52"

Kullo Man Alaiha Faanin Wa Yabqaa Waj'ho Rabbika Zu alJalaale Wa alIkraam
Meaning "Everything (literally, everyone) will cease to exist except your Lord's "face""

I wonder what use will the Lord have for His face, without arms and other parts of His body. He will not even have hands to hold a non-existent mirror to admire His own "face" :!:[/quote]
Exactly. Meaningless verse for a Habi unless he reverts towards the Taw'il which he vehemently denies :)

In the Hadeeth -

بعثت بجوامع الكلم وبدائع الحكم

I have been sent (as a Prophet) or I have been granted Prophethood with conciseness of speech and exquisite wisdom

If the Prophet's words have underlying meanings as he himself proclaims, would Allah's words wont?

anajmi
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Re: Poetry on Maula Ali

#125

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:08 pm

Actually, no one denies Taawil. Taawil that leads to idol worshipping is to be denied as indicated by the Quran itself. If the taawil says that the face refers to the face of Ali, then it needs to be rejected. If Taawil suggests that "face" is just a metaphor for the entire being used simply for the sake of forceful impact based upon the limitation of human understanding, then yes, that kind of Taawil can be accepted.

porus
Posts: 3594
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Poetry on Maula Ali

#126

Unread post by porus » Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:12 pm

anajmi wrote:
porus wrote: Meaning "Everything (literally, everyone) will cease to exist except your Lord's "face""

I wonder what use will the Lord have for His" face", without arms and other parts of His body. He will not even have hands to hold a non-existent mirror to admire His own "face" :!:
Actually, Allah is talking about the face of Hazrat Ali, because Allah is not anthromorphic and he cannot have a face, but Hazrat Ali does!! Shia interpretation, not mine.
Oh Dear! Wahhabi taawil is off on a tangent! In an abde's taawil, the ayat refers to the face of "his Lord" meaning "an abde's Lord". Ali has died and Imam has gone into hiding. So the ayat actually refers to the face of the Dai!

So, the taawil is that only the face of the Dai will remain, everything else will perish. My question was what would the Dai do when only his face remains and with no abde visible anywhere to prostrate to it? Be careful, the Dai's face might be forced to recreate the world with only abdes in it!.

mukhlis52
Posts: 44
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:35 am

Re: Poetry on Maula Ali

#127

Unread post by mukhlis52 » Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:18 pm

anajmi wrote:Actually, no one denies Taawil. Taawil that leads to idol worshipping is to be denied as indicated by the Quran itself. If the taawil says that the face refers to the face of Ali, then it needs to be rejected. If Taawil suggests that "face" is just a metaphor for the entire being used simply for the sake of forceful impact based upon the limitation of human understanding, then yes, that kind of Taawil can be accepted.
So you mean to say that Allah has used metaphors in al Qur'an? al Qur'an was revealed upon Mohammad SAW so you mean to say that Mohammad SAW's intellect was so weak that Allah AJ had to use metaphors to explain it to him? :D What a noble thought of a Habi :D

anajmi
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Re: Poetry on Maula Ali

#128

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:22 pm

So you mean to say that Allah has used metaphors in al Qur'an? al Qur'an was revealed upon Mohammad SAW so you mean to say that Mohammad SAW's intellect was so weak that Allah AJ had to use metaphors to explain it to him? What a noble thought of a Habi
So you are saying that Allah is not talking in metaphors and he is referring to his own "face"? So much for Taawil!!!

And this despite the fact that Allah says in the Quran that he talks in metaphors!! Oh what experts we have in Quranic understanding!!

The Quran wasn't revealed for the prophet (saw). The Quran was revealed TO the prophet (saw) for us!! Do you understand the difference? Or do you need to go to taawil 101?

Muslim First
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Re: Poetry on Maula Ali

#129

Unread post by Muslim First » Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:03 pm

Brothers, as
I have been called Wahabi and accused of hating Hz Ali and Ahle Bait. here is what I think about Hz

I consider Hz Ali lion hearted, modest and one of best knowledgeable sahaba about Qur’an. Being Prophet’s cousin, ward and son-an-law of he had more knowledge about personal life of the Prophet.

Do I consider him best qualified to succeed Prophet? My opinion will not make a iota of difference. History tells us that 3 Sahabas preceded him. 2 of them were his father-an-lawS and one was married to 2 of His daughters.

Here is telling account of Hz Ali’s Modesty. I quote from

From
A New introduction to Islam by Daniel W. Brown
Page 143 Paragraph 2
Shi Muslim fare little better than Kharajites in the main body of political hadith, On the sensitive question of who among Muhammad’s companions was best qualified to succeed him, Hadith scholars reported that when asked by his son, “Which is the best Muslim after Muhammad?” Ali replied, “Abu Bakr.” To the further question, "Then Who?” Ali replied, “Umar.” Fearing to ask the next question. Lest his father mention Uthman, the son suggested, “Then yourself?” To which Ali humbly replied, “No I am just another ordinary Muslim.” (Burton 1994:43).
There is another instance of Hz Ali’s modesty and his reluctance to advance claim that he was a crown prince of Islam.

Here is the account recorded in

From
Sirat_Ibn_Hisham Page 286
Last paragraph
Abdullah Ibn Abbas Said that on the same day Ali Ibn Talib went out to people after being with the Prophet SAW, so they asked him how the Prophet SAW was doing. “Thanks to Allah, he has recovered” he replied. Al-Abbas took him by the hand saying, “O Ali, I swear by Allah that I can tell it is death in the Prophet SAW‘s face, as I used to see in the faces of the sons of Abdul-Muttalib. So let us go to the Prophet SAW. In case that authority is to be within us, we will know it, and in case it is to be with others we will ask him to enjoin the people to treat us well,” Ali said, “By Allah, I will not do so. If it is refrained from us by the Prophet SAW, then none after him will give it to us.” The Prophet SAW died when the noon heat of that day increased.
So Hz Ali refused to go and ask Prophet about who will be in charge or ask him to make crown prince.

Brother you can say whatever you think about my feeling about Hz Ali or Sunni Umma’s feeling. People I know in every Masajid has utmost respect for Hz Ali and Ahle Bait (that includes Prophet's wives) and not a iota of hatred.

Wasalaam

profastian
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Re: Poetry on Maula Ali

#130

Unread post by profastian » Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:30 pm

Muslim First wrote:Brothers, as
I have been called Wahabi and accused of hating Hz Ali and Ahle Bait. here is what I think about Hz

I consider Hz Ali lion hearted, modest and one of best knowledgeable sahaba about Qur’an. Being Prophet’s cousin, ward and son-an-law of he had more knowledge about personal life of the Prophet.

Do I consider him best qualified to succeed Prophet? My opinion will not make a iota of difference.(Still give it a shot) History tells us that 3 Sahabas preceded him. 2 of them were his father-an-lawS and one was married to 2 of His daughters.

Here is telling account of Hz Ali’s Modesty. I quote from

From
A New introduction to Islam by Daniel W. Brown
Page 143 Paragraph 2
Shi Muslim fare little better than Kharajites in the main body of political hadith, On the sensitive question of who among Muhammad’s companions was best qualified to succeed him, Hadith scholars reported that when asked by his son, “Which is the best Muslim after Muhammad?” Ali replied, “Abu Bakr.” To the further question, "Then Who?” Ali replied, “Umar.” Fearing to ask the next question. Lest his father mention Uthman, the son suggested, “Then yourself?” To which Ali humbly replied, “No I am just another ordinary Muslim.” (Burton 1994:43).
There is another instance of Hz Ali’s modesty and his reluctance to advance claim that he was a crown prince of Islam.

Here is the account recorded in

From
Sirat_Ibn_Hisham Page 286
Last paragraph
Abdullah Ibn Abbas Said that on the same day Ali Ibn Talib went out to people after being with the Prophet SAW, so they asked him how the Prophet SAW was doing. “Thanks to Allah, he has recovered” he replied. Al-Abbas took him by the hand saying, “O Ali, I swear by Allah that I can tell it is death in the Prophet SAW‘s face, as I used to see in the faces of the sons of Abdul-Muttalib. So let us go to the Prophet SAW. In case that authority is to be within us, we will know it, and in case it is to be with others we will ask him to enjoin the people to treat us well,” Ali said, “By Allah, I will not do so. If it is refrained from us by the Prophet SAW, then none after him will give it to us.” The Prophet SAW died when the noon heat of that day increased.
So Hz Ali refused to go and ask Prophet about who will be in charge or ask him to make crown prince.

Brother you can say whatever you think about my feeling about Hz Ali or Sunni Umma’s feeling(Wahabis are not Sunnis, Wahab was a devil worshipping demented lunatic). People I know in every Masajid has utmost respect for Hz Ali and Ahle Bait (that includes Prophet's wives) and not a iota of hatred.

Wasalaam

anajmi
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Re: Poetry on Maula Ali

#131

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:34 pm

It doesn't really matter what Wahab did because we don't bow down before Wahab or prostrate before him or seek his raza!!

Muslim First
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Re: Poetry on Maula Ali

#132

Unread post by Muslim First » Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:53 pm

Profie
ya Ali Madad

Here is my shot
Hz Ali RA was best Muslim and most qualified to follow Prophet SAW
And I add:
Unfortunately for Mainstream Umma that did not happen. And he had to wait for other 3 who screwed up Islam royally. Ali RA saved Islam by participating in various disputes (his son will save Islam again later)
But our Shi brothers were not so dumb. They made up their own theory. They purged 3 from their History books Ali RA was crowned their Tagut of Islam and all sects of Shi worship him and some sect use "ya Ali Madad" as greeting (instead of AS).
there is only rightly guided true Momeen sect of Islam now known as Tayyebi Dawoodi Bohrs led by Allah's representative namely Sultan Muhammad Burhanuddin Saheb and his divinely appointed Maulai.

ya Ali Madad

sixfeetunder
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Re: Poetry on Maula Ali

#133

Unread post by sixfeetunder » Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:14 am

anajmi wrote:wahhabism has nothing to do with terrorism. This is an excuse used by morons to justify their own issues.

For eg. - "A" wants to perform shirk as a part of Islam. "B" says shirk is haraam. "A" says "B" is a wahhabi terrorist and kills people. Simple. This has nothing to do with wahhabi ideology and alll that. It might sound sophisticated but it is not. Anyone who points out shirk of others, especially our shia brothers, automatically becomes wahhabi terrorist. It is just easier to blame the other guy for being a terrorist than to reform ourselves from the shirk that we indulge in. We have seen that on this board for decades. That is why, people like sixfeetunder and others, didn't respond to the points raised and I raised dozens of them, and instead started talking about wahhabism and terrorism!!
You have a warped definition of shirk. I am a monotheist. I understand the oneness of Allah, Muhammad (s) as his Prophet, Quran as the divine revelation and all that is classically required for me to be a Muslim. The difference is that I also understand the greatness of Ali (a.s) and cannot fathom to imagine that the Prophet would want anyone else to be his successor. Now, this is not because I have been brought up to believe so but because I have deliberated and read much about Islamic history from both Shia and Sunni sources. When I read about how the first caliph came to power, it boils my blood and saddens me to no extent. After that, when he nominated Umar and Umar made bedouin interpretation of Islam and invented 'good-biddah' laws, it saddens me again. Finally, after his assassination, the great Ghani Uthman, was no doubt generous but to his own family and clan, restructured Islamic politics and strengthened foundations for a dynastic, exploitative, corruopt Islamic government. After that, there was Muawiya, Yazid, Abbasids, so on and so forth. After reading about this sick history of Islam, I cannot but cherish the greatness of Ahlul Bayt.

I am from a Bohra family but went to Sunni deobandi mosques all my childhood and teen days. I know very well about the Sahaba and their antics and how their stupidity is glorified by the Ahlus Sunnah. I also used to think like a Wahhabi. About the oneness of god like you do. I also thought saying Ya Ali madad is shirk and so on and so forth. But the Qur'anic interpretation of the classical Sunnis and Shias appeal more to me. I reject the Wahhabi interpretation and hence no matter how many times you call me an idol-worshiper, it doesnt matter because I've heard all this a hell lot of times. I was a Zakir Naik fan for many years but after a point, I saw the hollowness of the entire Wahhabi scheme of things.

I also acknowledge that many Shias glorify the Ahlul Bayt to an unrealistic degree. Sure, they were perfect humans but hero-worship has been there all along from time immemorial. Sunnis, too, glorify the saints to unimaginable heights. All this is folklore and I don't buy much of it.

As for Wahhabis and terrorism, I am simply calling a spade a spade. It is true that almost all terrorists are wahhabis. I have never heard Shia suicide bombers attacking a congregation of Wahhabis but I always hear about Shias being killed worldwide by Wahhabi terrorists. When will this hatred end? This hatred is personified by people like you and 'Muslim First', who label Shias as idol-worshipers and Kafirs. This is not what the Prophet wanted. He never wanted his followers to label one another as kafirs. Where are we going with this? Think about it.

sixfeetunder
Posts: 433
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:48 am

Re: Poetry on Maula Ali

#134

Unread post by sixfeetunder » Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:49 am

Muslim First wrote:Brothers, as
I have been called Wahabi and accused of hating Hz Ali and Ahle Bait. here is what I think about Hz

I consider Hz Ali lion hearted, modest and one of best knowledgeable sahaba about Qur’an. Being Prophet’s cousin, ward and son-an-law of he had more knowledge about personal life of the Prophet.

Do I consider him best qualified to succeed Prophet? My opinion will not make a iota of difference. History tells us that 3 Sahabas preceded him. 2 of them were his father-an-lawS and one was married to 2 of His daughters.

Here is telling account of Hz Ali’s Modesty. I quote from

From
A New introduction to Islam by Daniel W. Brown
Page 143 Paragraph 2
Shi Muslim fare little better than Kharajites in the main body of political hadith, On the sensitive question of who among Muhammad’s companions was best qualified to succeed him, Hadith scholars reported that when asked by his son, “Which is the best Muslim after Muhammad?” Ali replied, “Abu Bakr.” To the further question, "Then Who?” Ali replied, “Umar.” Fearing to ask the next question. Lest his father mention Uthman, the son suggested, “Then yourself?” To which Ali humbly replied, “No I am just another ordinary Muslim.” (Burton 1994:43).
There is another instance of Hz Ali’s modesty and his reluctance to advance claim that he was a crown prince of Islam.

Here is the account recorded in

From
Sirat_Ibn_Hisham Page 286
Last paragraph
Abdullah Ibn Abbas Said that on the same day Ali Ibn Talib went out to people after being with the Prophet SAW, so they asked him how the Prophet SAW was doing. “Thanks to Allah, he has recovered” he replied. Al-Abbas took him by the hand saying, “O Ali, I swear by Allah that I can tell it is death in the Prophet SAW‘s face, as I used to see in the faces of the sons of Abdul-Muttalib. So let us go to the Prophet SAW. In case that authority is to be within us, we will know it, and in case it is to be with others we will ask him to enjoin the people to treat us well,” Ali said, “By Allah, I will not do so. If it is refrained from us by the Prophet SAW, then none after him will give it to us.” The Prophet SAW died when the noon heat of that day increased.
So Hz Ali refused to go and ask Prophet about who will be in charge or ask him to make crown prince.

Brother you can say whatever you think about my feeling about Hz Ali or Sunni Umma’s feeling. People I know in every Masajid has utmost respect for Hz Ali and Ahle Bait (that includes Prophet's wives) and not a iota of hatred.

Wasalaam
Interesting thing about your first quotation is how Ali (a.s) lists Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman in perfect order, corresponding with their turns at the caliphate. Nice attempt by the fabricator of this hadith but it cannot fool those who have read Islamic history in detail. It can only provide solace to the naive and uninitiated. I have read many such fabricated ahadith and incidents where the three shaikheen have been glorified, just to make Ali (a.s) seem small and 'humble'. Most of these are found in Sunni books with weak chain of transmitters.

As for your second quotation, why would Ali (a.s) require to go and ask the Prophet (s) about his succession? Umar had already declared the Prophet (s) to be delirious (Naudhobillah) and refused to provide him with a pen and paper. Now, if the Prophet (s) was to nominate Ali again, the companions would say that since the Prophet is in a state of delirium, we cannot take his word. This entire game was well-planned. Why wouldn't they leave with Usama for the battle? So that they could come to power at the Prophet's death.

As for 'History tells us that 3 Sahabas preceded him. 2 of them were his father-an-lawS and one was married to 2 of His daughters.', this is hogwash, historically inaccurate and rebutted by Shii scholars with facts and figures. No time for details here. There are thousands of such things invented to show that all Sahaba were jolly good fellows and loved each other to death and there existed no problems whatsoever between Hashimites and the rest of the folks.

As for Sunni feeling for Ahlul bayt, I know about that very well. They do praise the ahlul bayt because they are required, as Ali (as) was the fourth caliph and Fatima (as) was the daughter of the Prophet and Hasnain (as) were the grandsons of the Prophet. From what I have seen in the Deobandi and Wahhabi mosques and lectures, is that they feel cautioned when praising the ahlul bayt. After praising them, they will be quick to enumerate virtues of other sahabas as well, so that they don't pale in comparison. Also, they don't do justice to Ahlul bayt. They are stuck to traditions and what ever exists in the 'Sahih' books, is like God-sent. The 'sahihs' are like a second Quran.

So, this apologetic, hypocritical and cautioned praise is not praise in the real sense. Sunni Islam is stained with the blood of Husain (a.s). There are classical sunnis, sufis and barelvis who do love the Ahlul bayt and I am aware of them. But Wahhabis and most deobandis only do lip service. Some may have feelings but those feelings are handicapped by false traditions in the books and by Mullahs who either are ignorant sectarians or skillful deceivers.

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Poetry on Maula Ali

#135

Unread post by Muslim First » Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:11 am

6'Under
As for 'History tells us that 3 Sahabas preceded him. 2 of them were his father-an-lawS and one was married to 2 of His daughters.', this is hogwash, historically inaccurate and rebutted by Shii scholars with facts and figures.
Hadrat Abu-Bakar Siddiq
born:   51 BH*/573 CE*, 
Died:Makkah 13 AH*/23 August 634 (Tuesday) Medinah
First Caliph (Khalifah) of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), Khalifatur-Rasool

Hadrat Umar ibn alKhattab
Born:41 BH/582 Makkah
Died: 24 AH/7 November 644 (Sunday) Medinah                            
 Second Caliph (Khalifah), Title "Ameerul-Momineen" was first adopted

Uthman ibn Affaan
Born:47 BH/577 Makkah
Died: 18 Zul-Hijja 35 AH/17 June 656 (Friday) Medinah                
Ameerul-Momineen ,Third Caliph (Khalifah)

Imam Ali ibn Abi-Taalib(1)
Born:13Rajab 23BH/600 Makkah
Died: 21 Ramadhan 40AH/28 January 661 (Thur) Kufah
Ameerul-Momineen, Fourth Caliph (Khalifah)

Imam Hasan ibn Ali (2)
Born:15 Ramadan 3 AH/28 February 625 (Thu) Medinah
Died:  Safar 49 or 50 AH/669 or 670 Medinah
Ameerul-Momineen (5th Khalifah), First son of Ali & Fatimah, Grand Child of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), was probably poisoned

Imam Husain ibn Ali (3)
Born: 3 Sha'ban 4 AH/8 Jan 626 (Wednesday) Medinah
Died: 10 Muharram 61 AH/9 Oct 680 (Tue) Karbala, Iraq
Shaheed-e-Karbala, Second son of Ali & Fatimah, Grand Child of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

Copied from: http://moonsighting.com/chronology.html

Do Shii scholars question that Abu Bakr and Umar were father-an-law of the Prophet? Or
prophet had other daughters then Fatema RA?

What were Shi Historians smoking?

Wasalaam
Last edited by Muslim First on Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

bohraji
Posts: 245
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2002 4:01 am

Re: Poetry on Maula Ali

#136

Unread post by bohraji » Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:14 am

Phir nageenaon me tul rahi hai zabaan
Aabe Kauser se dhul rahi hai zabaan
Ba adab ba mulhaiza hoshiyar
madhe Haider me khul rahi hai zabaan
...Rasheed Shaheedi

bohraji
Posts: 245
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2002 4:01 am

Re: Poetry on Maula Ali

#137

Unread post by bohraji » Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:30 am

paiGhaam sabaa jaa ke mere yaar se kahnaa
betaab huuN us Ghairat-e-gulzaar se kahnaa

Chandaa tuu kisii aur se zinhaar na rakh kaam
jo kuchh ho gharaz Haidar-e-Karrar** se kahnaa...Mahlaqa Chandaa,


Chanda is a forgotten Urdu poetess,much before Ghalib.

sixfeetunder
Posts: 433
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:48 am

Re: Poetry on Maula Ali

#138

Unread post by sixfeetunder » Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:22 am

Muslim first: 'History tells us that 3 Sahabas preceded him. 2 of them were his father-an-lawS and one was married to 2 of His daughters.'
I reckoned you were talking about Hazrat Ali (a.s) and not the Prophet (s.a.w). Yes, two of them were his father-in-laws. So what? Does being father-in-laws denote merit? Aisha was his wife. Does that denote merit? Many Prophets of the past had wives and sons unfaithful to them.

And his two daughters were not his daughters. They were Khadija's (a.s) sister's daughters, adopted by the Prophet and Khadija (a.s). There is ample evidence from Shii sources regarding that.

porus
Posts: 3594
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Poetry on Maula Ali

#139

Unread post by porus » Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:22 am

sixfeetunder wrote:
Muslim first: 'History tells us that 3 Sahabas preceded him. 2 of them were his father-an-lawS and one was married to 2 of His daughters.'
I reckoned you were talking about Hazrat Ali (a.s) and not the Prophet (s.a.w). Yes, two of them were his father-in-laws. So what? Does being father-in-laws denote merit? Aisha was his wife. Does that denote merit? Many Prophets of the past had wives and sons unfaithful to them.

And his two daughters were not his daughters. They were Khadija's (a.s) sister's daughters, adopted by the Prophet and Khadija (a.s). There is ample evidence from Shii sources regarding that.
Abu Bakr was Prophet's father-in-law. He married Aaisha, daughter of Abu Bakr.

Umar was father-in-law of the Prophet. He married Hafsa, daughter of Umar.

Uthman married two of Prophet's daughters. I am not sure if they were Prophet's step-daughters or the daughter's of Khadija's sister. Would you offer evidence?

anajmi
Posts: 13403
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Poetry on Maula Ali

#140

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:01 am

When I read about how the first caliph came to power, it boils my blood and saddens me to no extent.
So who is the jealous one now?
The difference is that I also understand the greatness of Ali (a.s)
Which is precisely why you can be labelled as a mushrik. Let me give you an example - If you hear shairi like this (this shairi started this thread)
"........Kehte ho Khuda na kaho,Khuda Ho kar,
Kis Mushkil me hamein daala hai,Mushkil Kusha ho kar......"
And if you say wah wah, naare haideri Ya Ali - then you are a mushrik.
If you say Astagfirullah for listening to this crap, then you won't be accused of being a mushrik.
After that, when he nominated Umar and Umar made bedouin interpretation of Islam and invented 'good-biddah' laws, it saddens me again. Finally, after his assassination, the great Ghani Uthman, was no doubt generous but to his own family and clan, restructured Islamic politics and strengthened foundations for a dynastic, exploitative, corruopt Islamic government.
Sounds like more jealousy to me.
I also used to think like a Wahhabi.
Does that mean you thought you'd become a terrorist?
I reject the Wahhabi interpretation
If the wahhabi interpretation, according to you, is - become a terrorist and kill innocents, then I reject it too. Rejection of wahhabi interpretation doesn't mean acceptance of mushrikana shairi does it? Just want to clarify my choices. The shia have only two choices. Become idol worshippers, or wahhabi terrorists. I prefer a third choice.
When will this hatred end?
It will end when Allah wishes it to end. It might be soon or it might be later. I pray for it to end soon.
Last edited by anajmi on Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

anajmi
Posts: 13403
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Poetry on Maula Ali

#141

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:10 am

And his two daughters were not his daughters. They were Khadija's (a.s) sister's daughters, adopted by the Prophet and Khadija (a.s). There is ample evidence from Shii sources regarding that.
Shia sources are filled with fiction as well. You can take a look at their shairi to figure that one out. It is pretty easy. We can keep talking about who married whose daughter and even if we do find evidence one way or another, we will say - so what!!! The bottom line is, the prophet (saw) didn't nominate anyone as his successor. The story of how he wanted to nominate Hazrat Ali but wasn't given a pen and a paper is nothing more than fabulous fiction. He had 23 years to nominate his successor didn't he? Ofcourse, the shia will then say he did nominate his successor on Ghadeer Khum. Well, if he did, then why did he need pen and paper?

Besides, the companions and the wives of the prophet (saw) have been honored in the Quran including Hazrat Abu Bakr and Hazrat Aisha. No amount of shia sources and their works is going to change that!! This is the reason for the jealousy of the shia with the first three khalifas. This is the reason why the elevate Hazrat Ali to the status of divinity through their shairi. Hatred and Jealousy are a part and parcel of the shia faith.

anajmi
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Re: Poetry on Maula Ali

#142

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:45 am

By the way, Ahlul Bayt as per 33:33 in the Quran, are the wives of the prophet (saw). THe backbone of the shia faith is an erroneous interpretation of the Quran!!

JC
Posts: 1624
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Poetry on Maula Ali

#143

Unread post by JC » Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:01 pm

If 123,999 Prophets did not niminate successors and there is no concept of Lineage (Imamat) that why would the Last Prophet do that?? Is not that logical then Prophet Adam whould have nominated a successor and the lineage would have continued till Qayamat?? Indeed God did not want that to happen. AND if God wanted Lineage from Mohammad why He did not let his son live?? Or it is that God wanted Lineage from Ali?? But why would God want that?? I mean if He wanted a lineage, He could have made Ali a prophet and hence would have lineage. In current situation in Lineage is from Ali, then does it make him superior to any Prophet??

It is just that Ali has been made a symbol or tool for use to grab power, powers of all sorts. It is that Non-Muslims use him to Divide and Rule.

May God Bless Ali..!!

anajmi
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Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Poetry on Maula Ali

#144

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:05 pm

JC,

You are a wahhabi terrorist and you want to kill people.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Poetry on Maula Ali

#145

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:42 pm

sixfeetunder wrote:As for Wahhabis and terrorism, I am simply calling a spade a spade. It is true that almost all terrorists are wahhabis.
Bro sixfeetunder,

There is no denial that there are many terrorist organisations having wahabi mentality but at the same time you cannot deny the fact that there are way many shia terrorist groups like hezbullah, Mahdi Army, Imam Hussain Brigade etc to name a few. For more you can google. Hence please do not be biased and in your own words call 'a spade a spade'. In fact if you calculate the numbers then you will find more shia terrorists in ratio to their population which is 15% of the total muslim population worldwide.

As regards the khilafat, it is a highly controversial issue as both sides have numerous hadiths to prove their point, however many hadiths are also highly suspect. Hence we should not pick and chose as per our ideology but view it in an unbiased manner. There are also many shia hadiths attributed to Mola Ali (a.s.) wherein he praises all the 3 khalifas.

anajmi
Posts: 13403
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Poetry on Maula Ali

#146

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:50 pm

bro gm,

That means you are also a wahhabi terrorist and you kill people.

anajmi
Posts: 13403
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Poetry on Maula Ali

#147

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:00 pm

God says in the Quran (Oops, you said "God says". That means your God is anthropomorphic. God doesn't have a tongue. How can he say? It means you are a wahhabi terrorist and you want to kill people.) that he is السَّمِيعُ All hearing (Oops, no can do... you said All hearing, which means you believe your God has ears and he is anthropomorphic. And that means you are a wahhabi terrorist and want to kill people.)

God says in the Quran (here we go again with the anthropomorphic God!!) that he is بَصِيرًا All seeing. (Here we go again with the anthropomorphic God. If God can see that means he has eyes that means he is anthropomorphic according to you and hence you are a wahhabi terrorist and you want to kill people)

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Poetry on Maula Ali

#148

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:16 pm

sixfeetunder wrote:As for 'History tells us that 3 Sahabas preceded him. 2 of them were his father-an-lawS and one was married to 2 of His daughters.', this is hogwash, historically inaccurate and rebutted by Shii scholars with facts and figures.
Bro sixfeetunder,

Before coming to the conclusion that the statements are hogwash it would be better if you read some shia hadiths. Iam quoting below some excerpts from a shia website :-

COMMITTEE TO SELECT THE NEXT KHALIFA

Upon the death of Omar a committee of leading Muslims again approached Ali with the request that he becomes the next Khalifa because he had been appointed Maula or Spiritual Guide of the Muslims by the Prophet at Ghadir-e-Khum on 18th of Muharram in 11 A.H. Immediately after that the last Ayat was revealed by Allah completing the Qur'an and his favours upon the Prophet and selecting Islam as the "Deen" or religion for humanity in the middle of Ayat 3 of Sura 5 – Al Maidah. Ali again declined the offer of being made a Khalifa for the third time and passed it on to Osman, who was the elder son-in-law having been married to Ruquiah, the second daughter of the Prophet and upon her death to Umme Kulsum the third daughter of the Prophet. Hence the Prophet gave Osman the title of "Zun-Nurain" or one who combined two lights of the Prophet in himself. When the committee approached Osman to become the Khalifa, he became frightened of the responsibility. He personally approached Ali along with all the members of the committee to point out to Ali that since he had been appointed Maula at Ghadir-e-Khum, he should accept the nomination of Khalifa. Ali declined again and induced Osman to accept (p 387, Vol 2, Tafrihul Azkia Fil Ahwal Ul Anbia) reminding him of the declaration of the Holy Prophet at the laying of the foundation of Masjid-e-Nabavi and his announcements thereafter were all the decisions of Allah.


MAULA ALI’S THIRD REFUSAL TO BECOME KHALIFA RECORDED BY SHIA SCHOLARS

Ali's refusal to become the Khalifa is confirmed by several Shia scholars e.g. :-

"After the death of Caliph Omar, when people in thousands gathered round Hadrat Ali requesting him to assume the Caliphate and beseeched him to accept their rulership, Hadrat Ali delivered the following Khutba (sermon) :-

"Let me alone. You go in search of somebody else."

"If you leave me alone, I shall be like you – just a citizen of the Islamic state, and in that case if the ruler selected by you governs and acts honestly and piously I shall in worldly affairs be more obedient to him than any of you. As a matter of fact I like more to guide and advise you than to rule over you" (Khutba No. 95, p. 66, Najhul Balagha by Syed Mohammad Askari Jafery). After that what right has anyone to even think that Hadrat Maula Ali should have been the first and only Khalifa of the Prophet ?

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Poetry on Maula Ali

#149

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:38 pm

Bro sixfeetunder,

Although I do not want this thread to again be reduced to shia/sunni fights, please allow me to quote some facts from shia sources regarding the marriage of Mola Ali's (a.s.) daughter to Hazrat Umar (r.a.) :-

Mola Ali (a.s.) gave his eldest daughter, Umme Kulthoom (r.a.) in marriage to Hazrat Umar (r.a.). Umme Kulthum (a.s.) was the eldest daughter of Fatima-tus-zehra (a.s.).

Among the most ludicrous explanations fabricated by the Shiahs to argue away this historical fact, Rawindi the ' Qutubul Aqtab' of the Shiahs claims that when Hazrat Umar (r.a.) pressurized and threatened Mola Ali (a.s.) to consent to this marriage with Umme Kulthum, he (Ali) miraculously transformed a female Jinn into the form, and appearance of Kulthum. Thus, Hazrat Umar married this female Jinn while the real Umme Kulthum remained in concealment. Only plunderers of Imaan could fabricate such nonsensical absurdity. This alleged miraculous transformation of the female Jinn is described in detail in the Shiah book, Mawaiz-e-Husainiyah.

Regarding this marriage, Abu Ja'far Yaqub Kaleeni, claims in his book Furoo'Kafi (an authoritative book of the Shiahs) that Hazrat Umar did not marry Umme Kulthum, but abducted her by force. According to these miserable slanderers, Hazrat Umar captured her by force and fornicated with her (Nauzubillah!) and kept her in captivity against her wishes and without having performed nikah with her. Thus, then, is the reasoning of minds impregnated with hatred.

anajmi
Posts: 13403
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Poetry on Maula Ali

#150

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:42 pm

Here is something that sixfeetunder said earlier
I also acknowledge that many Shias glorify the Ahlul Bayt to an unrealistic degree.
Now, here are some of the scenes of the day of judgement as mentioned in the Quran.

A pregnant woman will drop her pregnancy. A breast feeding woman will abandon her child. No friend will ask about his friend. People will try to ransome themselves from the punishment at the price of their own children. Many more of these scenarios are explained. Why is everyone so panicky? Because of the fear of the fire of hell. Without exception every one will be scared shitless. Now listen to this shairi by sixfeetunder who talks about "unrealistic degree"

"Ghalib, mai-nosh honay par gar Jannat na ja sakoon,
Hasrat yehi hai kay baad-e-marg kuch kaam aa sakoon;
Eendhan bana dey mujh ko Jahannum ka, aye Khuda,
Har dushman-e-Ali (A.S) ka kalaija jalaa sakoon."


Allah says everyone will be scared to the greatest degree possible, and our shia brothers will be going to hell fire to burn the wahhabi terrorists!!