Wahabi, Salafi discussion

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Muslim First
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Wahabi, Salafi discussion

#1

Unread post by Muslim First » Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:56 am

Please continue here

anajmi
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Re: Wahabi, Salafi discussion

#2

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:43 am

Wahhabis and Salafis are terrorist. Their Quran says kill people. They kill people. They have anthropomorphic God. Repeat these four sentences everytime you get stuck. End of discussion.

aliabbas_aa
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Re: Wahabi, Salafi discussion

#3

Unread post by aliabbas_aa » Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:56 am

Is there any use for such a discussion?
Most of the people out here have ego problems unwilling to leave their comfort zones of being a bohra and embrace the truth. Mostly people here indulge in slander and hate mongering!
They are in defensive mode and they wont budge even if hazrat Ali a.s comes down and executes the following fatawa from nahjul balaga sermon#126:

“With regard to me, two categories of people will be ruined, namely he who loves me too much and the love takes him away from rightfulness, and he who hates me too much and the hatred takes him away from rightfulness. The best man with regard to me is he who is on the middle course. So be with him and be with the great majority of Muslims because Allah’s hand of protection is on keeping unity. You should beware of division because the one isolated from the group is a prey to Satan just as the one isolated from the flock of sheep is a prey to the wolf. Beware! Whoever calls to this course [of sectarianism], kill him, even though he may be under this headband of mine.”

anajmi
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Re: Wahabi, Salafi discussion

#4

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:36 am

The shia will say dying at the hands of Hazrat Ali and going to hell in his love, is better than accepting his advise and going to heaven. In poetry of course!!

Aarif
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Re: Wahabi, Salafi discussion

#5

Unread post by Aarif » Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:24 pm

“You should beware of division because the one isolated from the group is a prey to Satan just as the one isolated from the flock of sheep is a prey to the wolf. Beware! Whoever calls to this course [of sectarianism], kill him, even though he may be under this headband of mine.”
Do you believe in the above quote or using it just for the heck of it? Because if you believe in what Ali said then it applies to you as well which means you should first stop showing off your fake supremacy or holier than thou attitude which is a key reason for creating disunity. And if you do not believe in the above quote then you have unknowingly put both your feet in your mouth. First try to become a good Muslim instead of becoming a second hand salafi.

aliabbas_aa
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Re: Wahabi, Salafi discussion

#6

Unread post by aliabbas_aa » Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:45 am

Aarif wrote:
“You should beware of division because the one isolated from the group is a prey to Satan just as the one isolated from the flock of sheep is a prey to the wolf. Beware! Whoever calls to this course [of sectarianism], kill him, even though he may be under this headband of mine.”
Do you believe in the above quote or using it just for the heck of it? Because if you believe in what Ali said then it applies to you as well which means you should first stop showing off your fake supremacy or holier than thou attitude which is a key reason for creating disunity. And if you do not believe in the above quote then you have unknowingly put both your feet in your mouth. First try to become a good Muslim instead of becoming a second hand salafi.

first tell me whether you yourself believe in this verdict of Ali a.s and how much do you follow it?

Aarif
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Re: Wahabi, Salafi discussion

#7

Unread post by Aarif » Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:28 pm

first tell me whether you yourself believe in this verdict of Ali a.s and how much do you follow it?
Here are certain things about me that you should know:
1) I try to follow Islam to the best of my abilities. I pray namaz, read Quran (both Arabic and translations), fast, (haven't been to haj yet), do charity and believe in Allah and his prophet.
2) I UNDERSTAND THE MEANING OF SHIRK AND I AM NOT AN ALI WORSHIPPER
3) BUT above all I do not believe in forcing my opinions on others. In the following ayah Allah says something that you should remember while trying to force your opinions on others:
[31:23] And he who submits himself completely to Allah, and is a doer of good, he has surely grasped a strong handle. And with Allah rests the end of all affairs.
[31:24] And as for him who disbelieves, let not his disbelief grieve thee. Unto us is their return and We shall tell them what they did; surely Allah knows full well what is in the breasts.


And if you have read the translations of Quran you will find that hundreds of times in Quran it is mentioned that “Allah knows the best”. When Allah says that in holy Quran, don’t you think that as different sects our opinions about Islam should be personal and we should leave it at that? We will be more united if we not only consider ourselves as Muslims but also be tolerant and accept others as Muslims who follow Islam according to their beliefs. As long as we do not do that we will be disunited and fighting with each other. Muslims do not need enemies from outside because they are pretty good at killing each other. So stop insulting and ridiculing people if their beliefs are different from yours. Because if you keep doing that maybe you will become a very good Salafi but a bad Muslim who has failed to understand even the basic message of Allah in Quran

Hanif
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Re: Wahabi, Salafi discussion

#8

Unread post by Hanif » Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:12 pm

Brother aliabbas- Please take your preaching somewhere else. You are boring us with your self-righteousness.

If you were such a great Muslim you would not be here looking down on others and criticisng their beliefs. Allah SWT is sufficient and He knows how to guide his people. We do not care for the likes of you who glorify Aurangzeb the killer of innocent Saints. He was like you, who thought he knew what true Islam was. Had he known true Islam, he would have known that Allah SWT says in the Qur'an He gives life and He takes life. One man killed is equal to mankind destroyed and one life saved is equal to mankind saved.

I wonder how many mankinds your Aurangzeb destroyed.

Please go in peace preach your diatribe to the likes of you. You will find plenty in the slums of India.

aliabbas_aa
Posts: 320
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Re: Wahabi, Salafi discussion

#9

Unread post by aliabbas_aa » Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:45 am

Aarif wrote:
first tell me whether you yourself believe in this verdict of Ali a.s and how much do you follow it?
Here are certain things about me that you should know:
1) I try to follow Islam to the best of my abilities. I pray namaz, read Quran (both Arabic and translations), fast, (haven't been to haj yet), do charity and believe in Allah and his prophet.
2) I UNDERSTAND THE MEANING OF SHIRK AND I AM NOT AN ALI WORSHIPPER
3) BUT above all I do not believe in forcing my opinions on others. In the following ayah Allah says something that you should remember while trying to force your opinions on others:
[31:23] And he who submits himself completely to Allah, and is a doer of good, he has surely grasped a strong handle. And with Allah rests the end of all affairs.
[31:24] And as for him who disbelieves, let not his disbelief grieve thee. Unto us is their return and We shall tell them what they did; surely Allah knows full well what is in the breasts.


And if you have read the translations of Quran you will find that hundreds of times in Quran it is mentioned that “Allah knows the best”. When Allah says that in holy Quran, don’t you think that as different sects our opinions about Islam should be personal and we should leave it at that? We will be more united if we not only consider ourselves as Muslims but also be tolerant and accept others as Muslims who follow Islam according to their beliefs. As long as we do not do that we will be disunited and fighting with each other. Muslims do not need enemies from outside because they are pretty good at killing each other. So stop insulting and ridiculing people if their beliefs are different from yours. Because if you keep doing that maybe you will become a very good Salafi but a bad Muslim who has failed to understand even the basic message of Allah in Quran
first tell me whether you yourself believe in this verdict of Ali a.s in nahjul balagha and how much you implement this verdict?

Aarif
Posts: 1426
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Re: Wahabi, Salafi discussion

#10

Unread post by Aarif » Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:01 pm

first tell me whether you yourself believe in this verdict of Ali a.s in nahjul balagha and how much you implement this verdict?
I have already given you my answer.. Unfortunately you have failed to understand what I wrote. I suggest you read my post again. If you still cannot understand refer it to your Aalim. I am sure he will be able to explain you my stand on your question.

aliabbas_aa
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Re: Wahabi, Salafi discussion

#11

Unread post by aliabbas_aa » Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:39 am

Aarif wrote:
first tell me whether you yourself believe in this verdict of Ali a.s in nahjul balagha and how much you implement this verdict?
I have already given you my answer.. Unfortunately you have failed to understand what I wrote. I suggest you read my post again. If you still cannot understand refer it to your Aalim. I am sure he will be able to explain you my stand on your question.
i would be glad to hear that you don't chant "ya ali madad" (nouzubillah)

aliabbas_aa
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Saying “Ya Ali Madad” is Shirk

#12

Unread post by aliabbas_aa » Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:30 am

The Shia are guilty of committing Shirk by giving characteristics of Allah to their Imams. The Shia even pray to their Imams and invoke their names by saying “Ya Ali” or “Ya Hussain” or “Ya Nabi!” They then proceed to make du’a asking for whatever they want. The famous Shia prayer “Ya Ali Madad” means “O Ali, help us!”

According to the very basic principles of Islam, this is Shirk (associating partners with Allah). What power does Ali have to grant our requests? What power does Prophet Muhammad have to grant our requests? Indeed, nobody save Allah has the power to grant our requests.

It is not permissible to ask Allah by the virtue of anyone, not even by the virtue of the Prophets or Messengers or Awliyaa’ or righteous people. No one can compel Allah to do anything. It is not permissible to ask Him in any way except by His Names and Attributes, as Allah says:

“And (all) the Most Beautiful Names belong to Allah, so call on Him…” (Quran, 7:180)

And yet we see the Shia saying things like “Naad-e-Ali” which means “call on Ali!” We should only call on Allah. Ali will tell these deviant Shia to stop calling him as he has no power, but rather to call Allah for help. In the same manner will Prophet Isa repudiate the Christians for calling on him as opposed to Allah.

With regard to saying to the occupant of a grave, “O So and so, help me,” this is obviously Shirk, because it is a supplication to someone other than Allah. Asking by the virtue of someone is a means to Shirk, and calling upon a created being is Shirk in worship.

How can a Muslim seek assistance from any other than Allah Almighty? Despite the fact that every Muslim must repeat the following words from the Quran in his prayer (salat) at least seventeen times a day:

“You alone do we worship, and Your aid alone we seek.” (Quran, 1:5)

We see the Shia saying things like “Ya Ali” and “Ya Mehdi” when they are distressed and need help. They will say “Ya Ali Madad!” These people cry out these names in times of distress when they wish for help. In true Islam, however, we should only say “Ya Allah!” Calling out anyone else’s name for help is Shirk, because we believe only Allah can help us! This is the Sunnah of the Prophet, as well as the way of Ali.

Allah Almighty says clearly in the Quran:

“And invoke not, besides Allah, [anyone since that] will neither profit you, nor hurt you, but if (in case) you did so, you shall certainly be one of the Zaalimoon (polytheists and wrongdoers). And if Allah should afflict you with harm, then there is none to remove it but He; and if He intends good to you there is none to repel His grace.” (Quran, 10:106-107)

Humans, no matter their status, cannot help anyone or harm anyone. Only Allah Almighty can cause harm and only He can bring benefit to us. Allah Almighty says in the Quran:

“Say [O Muhammad]: ‘I have no power over any good or harm to myself except as Allah wills’” (Quran, 7:188)

If the Prophet could not even have power of good or harm over himself, then how can we say that he has such powers over others? If the Prophet himself declares that he cannot bring good or harm, then why are we asking him?

Islam is a fiercely monothiestic faith, and rejects all forms of intermediaries with Allah. Intermediaries are none other than idols. The pagans believe that their idols are intermediaries, and they invoke them to ask God for help through them. So too do the Christians believe in Jesus as an intermediary to God. And so have the Imams become an intermediary and idols for the Shia.

How often do we hear the Shia say: “Ya Ali, give us [such and such]” or “Ya Hussain, rescue us!” The Shia even go to the graves of their Imams, crying and rubbing their tombs; it is not unusual to see a Shia kissing the grave of his Imam and invoking the deceased Imam’s name in du’a. The Shia cry to their idols, kiss them, and invoke them.

Then after doing all of this, the same Shia will say unashamedly about the Imam whose tomb they just cried to: “I do not worship him.” This fact is embodied in their dictum: “Call upon Ali, the revealer of wonders.” When these same people are asked if they worship Ali, they categorically deny this, despite the fact that they call upon his name (and their Imams) appealing for aid in obtaining their most demanding needs.

This is exactly what modern day Hindus do. They worship idols, but if we ask them, they will look at us straight in the eye and say that they are monothiests. They claim that they aren’t worshipping the idols, and that the idols are just intermediaries to God.

O Shia, come to the Call of Islam and to Absolute Tawheedullah (Oneness of Allah). “La Illaha Illalah”…There is no God except Allah! None is equal to Him and no partners and no intermediaries does He need.

Allah Almighty says in the Quran:

“The most beautiful names belong to Allah; so call on Him by them…” (Quran, 7:180)

Allah did not say: “So call on Him by the names of the Imams, their shrines, etc.”

Allah Almighty also said in the Quran:

“And your Lord says: ‘Call on Me, I will answer your (prayer).’” (Quran, 40:60)

Allah did not say: “Call on Me by the names of the Imams, I will answer your prayer.”

We should invoke Allah and Allah alone for Help, and asking anyone else is Shirk, the one sin Allah will not forgive.

Allah Almighty says it so clearly in the Quran:

“Verily those whom you call upon besides Allah are servants like you. Therefore, call upon them, and let them listen to your prayers, if you are (indeed) truthful!” (Quran, 7: 194)

This is a challenge from Allah, whereby Allah dares anyone to ask others for help. Nobody can listen to our prayers and grant them except Allah the Almighty.

Allah Almighty mocks those people who go to graves to supplicate invoking their Saints:

“If you invoke (or call upon) them, they hear not your call; and if (in case) they were to hear, they could not grant it (your request) to you….But you cannot make those hear who are in graves…” (Quran, Chapter 35)

Islam shuns the superstitious (and useless) practise of visiting graves to worship (and in fact considers it Haram).

Allah Almighty says in the Quran:

“Call upon those whom you imagine beside Allah! They have not an atom’s weight of power either in the heavens or in the earth, nor have they any share in either, nor does He need any of them as a helper.” (Quran, 34:22)

Allah Almighty says again in the Quran:

“Yet have they taken, besides Him, gods that can create nothing but are themselves created; that have no control of hurt or good to themselves; nor can they control Death nor Life nor Resurrection.” (Quran, 25:3)

Prophet Muhammad and Ali will say it proudly on the Day of Judgement that they are only slaves of Allah. In fact, the Prophet was asked by Allah if he would rather be a king of men or a slave of Allah. The Prophet chose to be a slave of Allah. There is no shame in this, and it is not belittling the status of either the Prophet nor Ali in the least in admitting that they cannot give benefit nor do harm even to themselves.

The Christians may think that we are insulting Prophet Jesus by saying that he is only a slave, but the Quran says:

“Christ disdains not to serve and worship Allah, nor do the angels, those nearest (to Allah).” (Quran, 4:172)

The Prophet and Ali would be included in “those nearest (to Allah)” who would not disdain to serve and worship Allah. All are powerless except Allah, and this is why we ask only Him for help. This is the essence of Islam. Anything other than this is Shirk and subsequent Kufr.

The Shia teach their children to supplicate by calling out the names of their Imams, thereby inculcating the habits of polythiesm in their children from a young age. This must be rejected, and children must be taught to only ask Allah for help and do so by using His Names, as mentioned in the Quran.

We will even find Shia who recite the names of Ali, Hasan, and Hussain whilst they do Tasbeeh, and claim that this is Dhikr. It is nothing short of Shirk, and Ali would burn such people on the stake if he knew that they were doing such things. In a similar manner did Ali burn the followers of Abdullah ibn Saba to the stake for the very same blasphemy.

The Shia believe that their prayers are accepted because they invoke the names of their Imams. They believe that the names of their Imams are the key-factor for acceptance of their prayers and a major prerequisite for getting invocations answered by Allah. This is similar to the unfounded claim by the polythiests who say that their idols draw them nearer to Allah.

The polythiests would say that the idols are a “Waseelah” to bring them close to Allah. And likewise, the Shia say that their Imams and Saints are the Waseelah to Allah, intermediaries who can bring them closer to Allah. This is the concept of Tawassul, but it is rejected by true Muslims, who believe that the only Waseelah to Allah is to be pious and to invoke Allah and Allah alone for help!

Whoever worships Ali, know that he is dead and that he cannot hear our cries, and even if he could, he could do nothing to help us. But whoever worships Allah, let him know that Allah is Alive and can never die, and that He has promised us help if we just turn to Him and Him alone. We should say only “Ya Allah Madad.”

aliabbas_aa
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Re: Wahabi, Salafi discussion

#13

Unread post by aliabbas_aa » Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:16 am

"And when Allâh Alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who believe not in the Hereafter are filled with disgust (from the Oneness of Allâh (swt) and when those (whom they obey or worship) besides Him [like all false deities other than Allâh, it may be a Messenger like 'Iesa (Jesus) ­ son of Maryam (Mary), 'Uzair (Ezra), an angel, a pious man, a jinn, or any other creature even idols, graves of religious people, saints, priests, monks, etc.] are mentioned, behold, they rejoice!" [39:45]

profastian
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Re: Wahabi, Salafi discussion

#14

Unread post by profastian » Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:17 am

deleted
Last edited by profastian on Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

aliabbas_aa
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Re: Wahabi, Salafi discussion

#15

Unread post by aliabbas_aa » Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:18 am

aliabbas_aa wrote:"And when Allâh Alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who believe not in the Hereafter are filled with disgust (from the Oneness of Allâh (swt) and when those (whom they obey or worship) besides Him [like all false deities other than Allâh, it may be a Messenger like 'Iesa (Jesus) ­ son of Maryam (Mary), 'Uzair (Ezra), an angel, a pious man, a jinn, or any other creature even idols, graves of religious people, saints, priests, monks, etc.] are mentioned, behold, they rejoice!" [39:45]

profastian
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Re: Wahabi, Salafi discussion

#16

Unread post by profastian » Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:19 am

mustafanalwalla wrote:Once again Ali Abbas bhai,


La Illaha Illalah
Mohmaddan Rasullalah
Aliyan Waliullah

Ya Ali Maddad.

Shah e Marda
Sher e Humza
Quwatt e Parvar Digha
La fatta Illah Ali
La saif illah Zulfiquar

Ya Mohammadan Rasullallah
Ya Ali
Ya Ma Fatema Zehra
Ya Hassan
Ya Hussain
Ya Syedi Ya Abbas
Ya Imamus Zamaan
Burhanuddin Maula Zindabad

BTW, have sent you a PM. do have a look at it and respond when free.
Ditto,(with one small correction Sher-e-yazdaan).
Also its much better in the reverse order, Burhanuddin Maula Zindabad -- to --
La Illaha Illalah :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
I would also add Yaa Taher

aliabbas_aa
Posts: 320
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Re: Wahabi, Salafi discussion

#17

Unread post by aliabbas_aa » Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:15 am

Prophet Muhammad and Ali will say it proudly on the Day of Judgement that they are only slaves of Allah. In fact, the Prophet was asked by Allah if he would rather be a king of men or a slave of Allah. The Prophet chose to be a slave of Allah. There is no shame in this, and it is not belittling the status of either the Prophet nor Ali in the least in admitting that they cannot give benefit nor do harm even to themselves.

The Christians may think that we are insulting Prophet Jesus by saying that he is only a slave, but the Quran says:

“Christ disdains not to serve and worship Allah, nor do the angels, those nearest (to Allah).” (Quran, 4:172)

The Prophet and Ali would be included in “those nearest (to Allah)” who would not disdain to serve and worship Allah. All are powerless except Allah, and this is why we ask only Him for help. This is the essence of Islam. Anything other than this is Shirk and subsequent Kufr.

The Shia teach their children to supplicate by calling out the names of their Imams, thereby inculcating the habits of polythiesm in their children from a young age. This must be rejected, and children must be taught to only ask Allah for help and do so by using His Names, as mentioned in the Quran.

We will even find Shia who recite the names of Ali, Hasan, and Hussain whilst they do Tasbeeh, and claim that this is Dhikr. It is nothing short of Shirk, and Ali would burn such people on the stake if he knew that they were doing such things. In a similar manner did Ali burn the followers of Abdullah ibn Saba to the stake for the very same blasphemy.

The Shia believe that their prayers are accepted because they invoke the names of their Imams. They believe that the names of their Imams are the key-factor for acceptance of their prayers and a major prerequisite for getting invocations answered by Allah. This is similar to the unfounded claim by the polythiests who say that their idols draw them nearer to Allah.

The polythiests would say that the idols are a “Waseelah” to bring them close to Allah. And likewise, the Shia say that their Imams and Saints are the Waseelah to Allah, intermediaries who can bring them closer to Allah. This is the concept of Tawassul, but it is rejected by true Muslims, who believe that the only Waseelah to Allah is to be pious and to invoke Allah and Allah alone for help!

Whoever worships Ali, know that he is dead and that he cannot hear our cries, and even if he could, he could do nothing to help us. But whoever worships Allah, let him know that Allah is Alive and can never die, and that He has promised us help if we just turn to Him and Him alone. We should say only “Ya Allah Madad.”

Aarif
Posts: 1426
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:01 am

Re: Wahabi, Salafi discussion

#18

Unread post by Aarif » Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:48 pm

i would be glad to hear that you don't chant "ya ali madad"
You are right I don't. But honestly you disappoint me with your level of intelligence by asking the same question again and again. In my post I wrote in CAPS that I AM NOT AN ALI WORSHIPPER AND YET YOU COULD NOT DEDUCE MY STAND.

aliabbas_aa
Posts: 320
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Re: Wahabi, Salafi discussion

#19

Unread post by aliabbas_aa » Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:53 am

Aarif wrote:
i would be glad to hear that you don't chant "ya ali madad"
You are right I don't. But honestly you disappoint me with your level of intelligence by asking the same question again and again. In my post I wrote in CAPS that I AM NOT AN ALI WORSHIPPER AND YET YOU COULD NOT DEDUCE MY STAND.
Most of the dbs would easily say that they are not ali worshipers yet they would love to chant "ya ali madad" which is nothing but ali worship. This is evident from this thread itself , mustunal,pro etc got an ego hurt and chanted those satanic utterances.
I am really happy to know that there are sane people on the other side of the fence who understand this grave issue and desist from committing this unpardonable sin.

profastian
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Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:00 am

Re: Wahabi, Salafi discussion

#20

Unread post by profastian » Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:17 am

aliabbas_aa wrote:
Aarif wrote: You are right I don't. But honestly you disappoint me with your level of intelligence by asking the same question again and again. In my post I wrote in CAPS that I AM NOT AN ALI WORSHIPPER AND YET YOU COULD NOT DEDUCE MY STAND.
Most of the dbs would easily say that they are not ali worshipers yet they would love to chant "ya ali madad" which is nothing but ali worship. This is evident from this thread itself , mustunal,pro etc got an ego hurt and chanted those satanic utterances.
I am really happy to know that there are sane people on the other side of the fence who understand this grave issue and desist from committing this unpardonable sin.
unpardonable by whom? your breast suckling sheikhs?

Muslim First
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Re: Wahabi, Salafi discussion

#21

Unread post by Muslim First » Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:04 am

mustafanalwalla wrote:Ali Abbas bhai,

First of all, my ego is not hurt at all.

If it was, i would have been cutting you verbally, but i choose not too because you are our guest on this site.
Br Ali
Do not be intimadeted by Nutwala. He does not own this site.

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
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Re: Wahabi, Salafi discussion

#22

Unread post by Muslim First » Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:27 pm

Muslim First wrote:

Br Ali
Do not be intimadeted by Nutwala. He does not own this site.
Mustafanalwala wrote
You are right. i dont own this site. Dawoodi Bohras do. And you too Sir, are our Guest. So i suggest you behave like one.
The site is owned by Progressive Dowoodi Bohraas and mr. Mustafanalwala is also guest. So please take your own advice

If i remember correctly, i have asked you once before to stay within your limits. Do not, i repeat once again, do not get personal
Missive was referred to Mr Nutwala not Mr Mustafanalwala.
Please do not wear Paghdi if it fits you.

Aarif
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Re: Wahabi, Salafi discussion

#23

Unread post by Aarif » Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:35 pm

I am really happy to know that there are sane people on the other side of the fence who understand this grave issue and desist from committing this unpardonable sin.
Your being happy is not enough for me. Next time I want you to remember this fact about me.

Also, sanity is not just reflected from how you follow a religion. It is also reflected from how tolerant you are towards others. Intolerance is also a form of insanity. For example I would not chant "Yaa Ali Madad" because I believe it is shirk. But if Nulwalla does that then that is his lookout. This is a free world and people are free to follow religions as per their beliefs. As I have mentioned only Allah has the right to judge between right and wrong. By calling him an idol worshipper and an Ali worshipper you will only create more enimity and hatred. And that is what leads to disunity. So as I said DO YOU YOURSELF believe in the following qoute you posted from Nehjul Balaga or just copy/pasted it to win some brownie points?
You should beware of division because the one isolated from the group is a prey to Satan just as the one isolated from the flock of sheep is a prey to the wolf. Beware! Whoever calls to this course [of sectarianism], kill him, even though he may be under this headband of mine.”

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Wahabi, Salafi discussion

#24

Unread post by anajmi » Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:48 pm

This is a free world and people are free to follow religions as per their beliefs.
That is a paradox. If you believe people should be free to follow religions as per their beliefs, then ali_abbas should also be allowed to follow his religion as per his belief which requires him to point out mistakes by others. You on the other hand should not be asking people to change themselves because this is a free world and people are free to follow religions as per their beliefs!!

Aarif
Posts: 1426
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:01 am

Re: Wahabi, Salafi discussion

#25

Unread post by Aarif » Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:17 pm

anajmi wrote:
This is a free world and people are free to follow religions as per their beliefs.
That is a paradox. If you believe people should be free to follow religions as per their beliefs, then ali_abbas should also be allowed to follow his religion as per his belief which requires him to point out mistakes by others. You on the other hand should not be asking people to change themselves because this is a free world and people are free to follow religions as per their beliefs!!
I never asked Ali Abbas to stop practising and following the religion his way. However, if I am not stopping him from following the religion his way then obviously in return I don't expect him to stop me and point fingers at me for following the religion as per my beliefs. YES, I have a problem when someone tries to become a "Dharam kaa thekedaar" running around teaching people how they should follow the religion. I don't care how he follows Islam. That is his lookout. But if he comes and abuses my beliefs do you think I am going to spare him. Obviously I am going to kick his ass and that is what I am doing on this thread. What he does in his own house is his lookout. But that does not give him the right to invade my home and force his opinions on me. SO PISS OFF

anajmi
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Re: Wahabi, Salafi discussion

#26

Unread post by anajmi » Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:25 pm

Nobody is invading anybody's home. We are on an anonymous open forum. You are probably an abandoned stray dog trying to protect a home that doesn't need protecting. If you stop reading this forum, then you will realize that no one gives a shit about what you believe. The fact that you are here means that you give a shit about what others believe and that makes you a hypocrite.

Aarif
Posts: 1426
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:01 am

Re: Wahabi, Salafi discussion

#27

Unread post by Aarif » Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:17 pm

anajmi wrote:You are probably an abandoned stray dog trying to protect a home that doesn't need protecting. If you stop reading this forum, then you will realize that no one gives a shit about what you believe. The fact that you are here means that you give a shit about what others believe and that makes you a hypocrite.
Right now it looks like you are the stray dog who is barking and honestly I don't give a shit about you just like everyone else on this forum. SO PISS OFF

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Wahabi, Salafi discussion

#28

Unread post by anajmi » Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:29 pm

See what I mean? Doesn't matter what anyone says to you. Your response is exactly the same. :wink:

aliabbas_aa
Posts: 320
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Re: Wahabi, Salafi discussion

#29

Unread post by aliabbas_aa » Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:20 am

There is no point in mud slinging , one should understand that only one sect is on the true path of siratal mustaqeem and we should try to seek it and follow it only. The last two conditions of salavation in surah asr is
:
3) Invite each other to truth(haq ni dawat) )
4)have patience if invitee is not responding to the dawah but dont loose hope, keep on trying, inshallah truth will triumph!

ghulam muhammed
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Re: Wahabi, Salafi discussion

#30

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:38 pm

It is Salafi Muslims who degraded women, not Islam!

Being the birthplace of Islamic Shariah, Saudi Arabia is viewed as the epitome of Islamic practices. Indeed, it advertises itself as the last refuge of puritan Islam, whatever that may mean. Talking about women in Islam, people naturally fix their eyes on what is going on in Saudi Arabia with regard to Saudi and other women living there. To their horror, they find women in Saudi Arabia completely deprived of the dignity and honour ensured by the Prophet of Islam.

In Saudi/Salafi society, women are treated like commodities and disposable containers. Different kinds of legal opportunities have been provided for Salafi men to exploit women in the name of Islam throughout the world. Wahhabi /Salafi scholars have issued many fatwas to allow several kinds of deceptive and fake marriages to use women as sex slaves for as long as they wish. Here are a few types of fake marriages practiced and favoured by Saudi Salafis:

(a) Misyaar - It is a temporary relationship between men and women for sexual pleasure. In this relationship the woman relinquishes all her rights that are available to her in an Islamic marriage. It is claimed that 60 Salafi scholars, including Saudi Grand Mufti Shaikh Abdulaziz al-Shaikh endorsed Misyar relationship between men and women in their fatwas.

The terms and conditions of Misyar and Shia practice of Mutah (sexual pleasure) are same except that in Misyar, it is claimed that the partners do not fix a time to end their sexual relationship and are free to leave each other anytime they wish. In Mutah, they fix a specific time, like one week, one month etc., and at the end of that period both man and woman are considered as legally separated. In Mutah and Misyaar, man and woman need not live together under the same roof. They can meet whenever the man demands and spend a few hours together in privacy for sex and go to their homes quietly.

(b) Urfa - In this relationship, arrangements are made as a customary marriage but there are no official contracts signed and this relationship also does not give women any rights whatsoever. She is kept as alone as the man wishes to use her for sex.

(c) Misyaf ( Summer holiday marriage) - It is a tourism marriage practiced by Saudis and other Salafis in the world who go on summer vacation to countries like Yemen, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and other countries. In these countries they take advantage of poor Muslim families by fake marriages with young, rather very young girls between the ages of 9 to 16 years in collusion with local middlemen and agents who are paid for these notorious services.

Most alarming in this context is the latest Fatwa by Shaikh Adil Al-Kalbani, the Imam of the Grand Mosque of Makka issued on July 16, 2010 (as reported on al-arabiya.net).

The old Shaikh Kalbani posted on his own website his fatwa that permits Saudis marrying Western women with the intention of divorcing them when they are finished with them without the pre-knowledge of the women of their deceitful plan.

Meaning, the Imam has given green light to Saudi overseas students and travelling businessmen to use women as disposable containers to relieve themselves sexually.

One of the most prominent Salafi scholars of recent times, Shaikh Abdulaziz Ibn Baaz (1910-1999) who was Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia, also gave a similar Fatwa (Majmua Fatawa wa Maqalat Mutanawwi'ah - 16 Volumes).

This is the real face of Salafism/Wahhabism which openly allows indiscriminate physical, spiritual, mental, emotional and financial rape of women by so many deceptive marriages devised by them to exploit poor needy women all over the world. It has nothing to do with true Islam. And yet the Western media insists on calling it a puritan form of Islam.

Read More :-

http://www.newageislam.com/islamic-shar ... am!/d/7723