Correct Shadi ki 14 sharte (14 terms of right marriage)

Given modern distractions, the need to understand Islam better has never been more urgent. Through this forum we can share ideas and hopefully promote the true spirit of Islam which calls for peace, justice, tolerance, inclusiveness and diversity.
sixfeetunder
Posts: 433
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:48 am

Re: Correct Shadi ki 14 sharte (14 terms of right marriage)

#31

Unread post by sixfeetunder » Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:32 am

Muslim First wrote:Br 6'U & H_S_U
AS

Now that both of you believe that Mutah is Halal. Please answer following truthfully.

you are Wali of your young sister. A buddy of hers wants to enter Mutah relation with her for one week.
According to Shia Mutah fique they do not need your Raza.
How do you feel?

Straight answer please!
A woman who is a virgin needs the approval of her guardian for marriage. A woman who is not a virgin need not require approval of her guardian.

Yes, from my understanding and research of the Quran, hadith and Sunnah, temporary marriage is valid in Islam and there are proofs aplenty, links of which I have posted. The question you are asking is of a personal nature. What we are discussing here is academic and not personal. Anyway, to answer your question, I have already stated that sex is not always the main reason for a temporary marriage. I have told you about some of the reasons for temporary marriage apart from sex. Also, my sister is mature enough to make her own decisions and she is well-read and has a sound understanding of Islam. I consider temporary marriage to be permitted in Islam, so as a Muslim, I do not find fault with that.

I had apprehensions about temporary marriage when I first read about it. It took me time to understand the reasons why it is permitted. It is not a fairy tale concocted by desperate Shii'tes, as some believe. There are over-whelming proofs regarding its validity. One only needs an open mind to understand and study the proofs without a preconceived bias.

One more thing. It is not as if temporary marriage is a 'compulsory'! It is only one of the many laws in Islam. I am personally not a proponent of polygamy but it is allowed in Islam and so I do not find fault with it. I may not practice polygamy but that does not make me say that it should be banned!!

Sex with what your 'right hand possesses' (female slaves) is valid in Islam. I find the idea to be alien and foreign. But it is permitted. One has to keep one's personal opinions apart when discussing laws of Islam. Every law need not be practiced but the reason why they are valid is because you don't know how many centuries and millennia will pass until the world will end. One does not know what societies will come to form in the future. We are part of the present world and hence see everything in relation to it. Islam is a religion for all times. There is no messenger after Muhammad (saw). Islamic laws are broad and many. They can encompass all kinds of societal systems. Allah is merciful.

sixfeetunder
Posts: 433
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:48 am

Re: Correct Shadi ki 14 sharte (14 terms of right marriage)

#32

Unread post by sixfeetunder » Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:40 am

anajmi wrote:Any hadith which contradicts the Quran can be easily rejected. Why don't the sunni muslims perform mutah citing this hadith as a green light? Because obviously, the Quran trumps any hadith and if a hadith is against the Quran, then it cannot be followed. The Quran is pretty clear - marry upto 4 but if you cannot be just then only one. A mutah wife is not treated the same as a regular wife. She cannot be treated the same as a regular wife because divorce is a part of her contract. Divorce, which is supposed to be the most hated of the things allowed is part and parcel of this custom. The Sunnis believe that the prophet (saw) abolished this abomination from Islam and that is in line with the Quran.
Mutah which is made lawful by Allah(swt)
Mutah is not allowed by the Quran as explained above.
Get your facts right. There is no divorce in a temporary marriage. After the fixed period is over, the marriage is null and void. Qur'an 4:24 makes Mutah valid. There is no other verse abrogating Muta marriage. A Quranic verse can be nullified only by another Quranic verse. Not by hadith. There is no Quranic verse nullifying temporary marriage. The ones Sunnis quote have been revealed in a time period before the Muta verse was revealed.

sixfeetunder
Posts: 433
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:48 am

Re: Correct Shadi ki 14 sharte (14 terms of right marriage)

#33

Unread post by sixfeetunder » Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:18 am

Aarif wrote:Guys,
I strongly believe that Mutah should be banned. All the reasons cited in support of Mutah (including its references in Quran) should be ignored. Most men perform Mutah to satisfy their lust rather than with any good intentions of helping the non-mehram. Hence it is a form of prostitution. On this very forum I have mentioned in the past that some of our higher clergy (shehzadaas and likes) specifically go to Iran and perform Mutah with poor Irani girls to satisfy their lust. I am pretty sure that the quote of Maulana Ali is not his quote and is propagated in his name to justify Mutah. Since Shias are the ones who practice Mutah they are using the name of Maulana Ali to promote this evil practice. Please stop defaming the name of the greatest personality of Islam after Prophet (PBUH).

As it is there are many loopholes related to marriage and divorce in Islam that are exploited by men to take advantage of helpless women in the name of religion. Please do not add more to it. In fact every educated person should fight against evil practices of Mutah, triple talaq and Halala that legalize and promote womanizing and prostitution in the name of religion.
There are many wealthy Arabs who marry young nubile girls from poor families in India and other developing or under-developed nations. After satisfying themselves, they divorce the girls or they end up as bonded labor in foreign lands. Because of this, should polygamy be banned and all references from Quran and hadith ignored? Just because laws are being misused, it doesn't mean that we have to repeal them. We have to develop a system where such laws are difficult to misuse.

If the Bohra high clergy go to Iran and perform Muta, it can mean two things:

1. They are not following the Bohra Ismaili fiqh and hence can be called hypocrites.

2. They secretly believe in the legitimacy of temporary marriage and hence in the Ithna-Asheri position.


To say that Shia use Maula Ali's name to indulge in their lusts is a massive claim and has to be backed up with solid proofs. If you are truthful, please submit your proofs and we shall discuss the matter. There are so many ahadith from companions of the Prophet and Imams of Ahl-e-bayt about temporary marriage that you will not be able to prove that this thing was concocted in a Shia laboratory.

Also, temporary marriage cannot be compared to prostitution as prostitution is generally forced while a temporary marriage cannot be forced. If a man wants to find loopholes and exploit women, he will do so, with or without temporary marriage. It all depends upon the nature and intent of man.

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Correct Shadi ki 14 sharte (14 terms of right marriage)

#34

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:30 am

Your evidence from Quran is incompetent. Your argument is one can marry multiple wives only if he is to treat them equally. But Muta marriage can be a man's first marriage also. Hence, your argument is flawed.
In normal parlance we refer to a temporary wife hired to satisfy a man's desires (a child, or sex or "getting to know the girl") as a "rakhel". Henceforth, I will refer to a mutah wife as a "rakhel".

So you are saying that the argument is incompetent (which it is not) only in the case of mutah being the first "marriage". So we agree that in cases where it is not the first marriage, it is a competent argument!!

You are now scraping the bottom of the barrel. Even if mutah is the first marriage, the intention is to keep a rakhel and not a wife. Hence, you are in violation of the Quran.
prostitution is generally forced while a temporary marriage cannot be forced.
So can we say that temporary marriage is the kind of prostitution that is not forced?
If a man wants to find loopholes and exploit women, he will do so, with or without temporary marriage. It all depends upon the nature and intent of man.
Well, with the existence of mutah, the need for finding loopholes dissappears.

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Correct Shadi ki 14 sharte (14 terms of right marriage)

#35

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:37 am

Get your facts right. There is no divorce in a temporary marriage. After the fixed period is over, the marriage is null and void.
Well, the only way a marriage can end is through divorce. Read the Quran. Hence a "marriage" that can end without divorce, is not a "marriage" in the first place. It is a form of prostitution with paper work promulgated by hypocrites who call themselves muslim!!

sixfeetunder
Posts: 433
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:48 am

Re: Correct Shadi ki 14 sharte (14 terms of right marriage)

#36

Unread post by sixfeetunder » Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:51 am

anajmi wrote: So you are saying that the argument is incompetent (which it is not) only in the case of mutah being the first "marriage". So we agree that in cases where it is not the first marriage, it is a competent argument!!

You are now scraping the bottom of the barrel. Even if mutah is the first marriage, the intention is to keep a rakhel and not a wife. Hence, you are in violation of the Quran.
Quran 4:24 validates Muta. I have my reasons to believe in its validity. I have provided the links which prove the legitimacy of Muta. You can read them if you wish to and ignore them if you wish to. You are entitled to believe what you want. That is a god-given right to you. I prefer if discussions are academic. I am not interested whether you consider a temporary wife as a whore, rakhel or prostitute. Many of the Prophet's companions had temporary wives. You can answer them on the day of judgment. I am done with my bit. I have said all I wanted to say. I say peace now.

sixfeetunder
Posts: 433
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:48 am

Re: Correct Shadi ki 14 sharte (14 terms of right marriage)

#37

Unread post by sixfeetunder » Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:57 am

anajmi wrote:
Get your facts right. There is no divorce in a temporary marriage. After the fixed period is over, the marriage is null and void.
Well, the only way a marriage can end is through divorce. Read the Quran. Hence a "marriage" that can end without divorce, is not a "marriage" in the first place. It is a form of prostitution with paper work promulgated by hypocrites who call themselves muslim!!
You are wrong here. A legitimate sexual relationship may be dissolved without divorce in the case of a wife who is the subject of a sworn allegation, a spouse who leaves Islam, or a slave-girl who is sold. Brush up your Islam.

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Correct Shadi ki 14 sharte (14 terms of right marriage)

#38

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:01 pm

Qur'an 4:24 makes Mutah valid.
4.24. And all married women, save those (captives) whom your right hands possess (and whose ties with their husbands have practically been cut off). This is God's decree, binding upon you. Lawful for you are all beyond those mentioned, that you may seek, offering them of your wealth, taking them in sound chastity (i. e. in marriage), and not in licentiousness. And whomever of them you seek to enjoy in marriage (under these conditions), give them their bridal-due as a duty. But there is no blame on you for what you do by mutual agreement after the duty (has been done). Assuredly, God is All-Knowing (of what you do and why), and All-Wise.

4:24 (Asad) And [forbidden to you are] all married women other than those whom you rightfully possess [through wedlock]: [26] this is God's ordinance, binding upon you. But lawful to you are all [women] beyond these, for you to seek out, offering them of your possessions, [27] taking them in honest wedlock, and not in fornication. And unto those with whom you desire to enjoy marriage, you shall give the dowers due to them; but you will incur no sin if, after [having agreed upon] this lawful due, you freely agree with one another upon anything [else]: [28] behold, God is indeed all-knowing, wise.

4:24 (Y. Ali) Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess: Thus hath Allah ordained (Prohibitions) against you: Except for these, all others are lawful, provided ye seek (them in marriage) with gifts from your property,- desiring chastity, not lust, seeing that ye derive benefit from them, give them their dowers (at least) as prescribed; but if, after a dower is prescribed, agree Mutually (to vary it), there is no blame on you, and Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.

PICKTHAL: And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess. It is a decree of Allah for you. Lawful unto you are all beyond those mentioned, so that ye seek them with your wealth in honest wedlock, not debauchery. And those of whom ye seek content (by marrying them), give unto them their portions as a duty. And there is no sin for you in what ye do by mutual agreement after the duty (hath been done). Lo! Allah is ever Knower, Wise.

SHAKIR: And all married women except those whom your right hands possess (this is) Allah's ordinance to you, and lawful for you are (all women) besides those, provided that you seek (them) with your property, taking (them) in marriage not committing fornication. Then as to those whom you profit by, give them their dowries as appointed; and there is no blame on you about what you mutually agree after what is appointed; surely Allah is Knowing, Wise.

And there are many other translations, but I do not see the permission to perform temporary marriage anywhere. Unless ofcourse I employ the normal shia tactic of going around in circles to come up with a pre-desired conclusion!!

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Correct Shadi ki 14 sharte (14 terms of right marriage)

#39

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:04 pm

You are wrong here. A legitimate sexual relationship may be dissolved without divorce in the case of a wife who is the subject of a sworn allegation, a spouse who leaves Islam, or a slave-girl who is sold. Brush up your Islam.
And in which of these cases is the dissolution of the "legitimate" sexual relationship pre-determined as a part of the "marriage"?

sixfeetunder
Posts: 433
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:48 am

Re: Correct Shadi ki 14 sharte (14 terms of right marriage)

#40

Unread post by sixfeetunder » Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:12 pm

anajmi wrote:
You are wrong here. A legitimate sexual relationship may be dissolved without divorce in the case of a wife who is the subject of a sworn allegation, a spouse who leaves Islam, or a slave-girl who is sold. Brush up your Islam.
And in which of these cases is the dissolution of the "legitimate" sexual relationship pre-determined as a part of the "marriage"?
Let me paste your own words again: "Well, the only way a marriage can end is through divorce. Read the Quran. Hence a "marriage" that can end without divorce, is not a "marriage" in the first place. It is a form of prostitution with paper work promulgated by hypocrites who call themselves muslim!!"

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Correct Shadi ki 14 sharte (14 terms of right marriage)

#41

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:24 pm

Correct. A marriage can end only through a divorce. An agreement which lets a couple stayed married for a night is not a marriage but is prostitution with paper work. It is like legal prostitution. Nothing more nothing less. Does a mutah-ed girl have to go through iddah? Yes she does. What the heck are you people following? There is no divorce, but there is iddah!!!

Do not play with religion. Does a spouse who leaves Islam have to go through iddah?

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Correct Shadi ki 14 sharte (14 terms of right marriage)

#42

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:07 pm

Hazrat Ali says: The Mut'a is a mercy from Allah to his servants. If it were not for Umar forbidding it, no one would commit (the sin) of fornication except the wretched (Shaqi; an utmost wrong-doer)."
Shias say that we shouldn't think of mutah for the sexual viewpoint only, but this saying from Hazrat Ali shows that mutah is only for the sake of sex. What does mutah do? It replaces zina. Zina is nothing but sex. Only sex!! It doesn't say that mutah liberates women, or that it provides freedom of choice of that it gives an opportunity to know the opposite sex. It says it replaces Zina!!

Aarif
Posts: 1426
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:01 am

Re: Correct Shadi ki 14 sharte (14 terms of right marriage)

#43

Unread post by Aarif » Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:49 pm

sixfeetunder wrote:
Aarif wrote:Guys,
I strongly believe that Mutah should be banned. All the reasons cited in support of Mutah (including its references in Quran) should be ignored. Most men perform Mutah to satisfy their lust rather than with any good intentions of helping the non-mehram. Hence it is a form of prostitution. On this very forum I have mentioned in the past that some of our higher clergy (shehzadaas and likes) specifically go to Iran and perform Mutah with poor Irani girls to satisfy their lust. I am pretty sure that the quote of Maulana Ali is not his quote and is propagated in his name to justify Mutah. Since Shias are the ones who practice Mutah they are using the name of Maulana Ali to promote this evil practice. Please stop defaming the name of the greatest personality of Islam after Prophet (PBUH).

As it is there are many loopholes related to marriage and divorce in Islam that are exploited by men to take advantage of helpless women in the name of religion. Please do not add more to it. In fact every educated person should fight against evil practices of Mutah, triple talaq and Halala that legalize and promote womanizing and prostitution in the name of religion.
There are many wealthy Arabs who marry young nubile girls from poor families in India and other developing or under-developed nations. After satisfying themselves, they divorce the girls or they end up as bonded labor in foreign lands. Because of this, should polygamy be banned and all references from Quran and hadith ignored? Just because laws are being misused, it doesn't mean that we have to repeal them. We have to develop a system where such laws are difficult to misuse.

If the Bohra high clergy go to Iran and perform Muta, it can mean two things:

1. They are not following the Bohra Ismaili fiqh and hence can be called hypocrites.

2. They secretly believe in the legitimacy of temporary marriage and hence in the Ithna-Asheri position.


To say that Shia use Maula Ali's name to indulge in their lusts is a massive claim and has to be backed up with solid proofs. If you are truthful, please submit your proofs and we shall discuss the matter. There are so many ahadith from companions of the Prophet and Imams of Ahl-e-bayt about temporary marriage that you will not be able to prove that this thing was concocted in a Shia laboratory.

Also, temporary marriage cannot be compared to prostitution as prostitution is generally forced while a temporary marriage cannot be forced. If a man wants to find loopholes and exploit women, he will do so, with or without temporary marriage. It all depends upon the nature and intent of man.
SixFeetUnder,

I have mentioned in my post that even if Mutah is supported by Quran and Hadith it should be banned. Think logically. Mutah is a temporary form of marriage. Why would someone marry someone to help? People on this very forum are helping poors in Ahemadabad. Do they really care who gets their money as long as the right needy people get their money. So why do you think that one has to marry to help someone in need? People who perform Mutah mostly do it on the pretext of helping the girl by converting her into mehram in favor of physical relationship. By calling it a temporary form of marriage you cannot change the facts. Even in prostitution the person can stay with a women for as many days he wants by paying money. Tell me one thing frankly. Is a Mutah with a prostitute acceptable? Will that make sex with her legitimate? And also tell me roughly what percentage of people perform Mutah for reasons other then sex? And do the poor girls who want to feed their hungry families have a choice? How can you be so sure that Mutah is not performed forcefully? Remember, if poor girls perform Mutah they mostly do out of helplessness because no girl would want to sleep with a man knowing that he will abondon her after a few days. I believe as educated people we should think about such issues and try to reform them intead of supporting them.

humble_servant_us
Posts: 471
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Correct Shadi ki 14 sharte (14 terms of right marriage)

#44

Unread post by humble_servant_us » Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:03 am

anajmi
No hadith is above the Quran. So if a hadith appears to be violating the Quran, then it is to be rejected. The hadith might be authentic, but if this hadith is authentic, then the hadith banning mutah is also authentic. Maybe the hadith you quoted happened before the command of the Quran. Hence the hadith might be authentic, but is no longer applicable
From one of your earlier quotes in a different thread
If a hadith is reported by all six, then it is considered to be 100% authentic and others if it doesn't go against any commandment of the Quran.
So you have contradicting statements.
Even drinking was practiced during the time of the prophet (saw) for a few years until the Quran banned it. No one in his right mind will say that drinking is from Allah (except ofcourse the Ismailis - another shia branch!!) because it was practiced during the time of the prophet (saw)
There is a difference here drinking was practiced during the time of the prophet(pbuh) but did ever prophet(pbuh) legalise it . Never. But in case of Mutah the prophet(pbuh) granted the permission to do Muta. Sahih Muslim
"...He then granted us permission that we should contract temporary marriage for a stipulated period giving her a garment,..."
. So your argument this hadith happening before Quran is incorrect.

If you with limited knowledge think Mutah is Bad then why would prophet(pbuh) allow it even before Quran came. Is this not belittling the prophet(pbuh)'s wisdom/knowledge.

For your queries SFU has nicely answered them and a very honest answer which i liked about him.
I had apprehensions about temporary marriage when I first read about it. It took me time to understand the reasons why it is permitted. It is not a fairy tale concocted by desperate Shii'tes, as some believe. There are over-whelming proofs regarding its validity. One only needs an open mind to understand and study the proofs without a preconceived bias. One more thing. It is not as if temporary marriage is a 'compulsory'! It is only one of the many laws in Islam. I am personally not a proponent of polygamy but it is allowed in Islam and so I do not find fault with it. I may not practice polygamy but that does not make me say that it should be banned!!


arif
I have mentioned in my post that even if Mutah is supported by Quran and Hadith it should be banned. Think logically. Mutah is a temporary form of marriage.
Due to our lack of knowledge many things which Islam has prescribed may not sound logical to you. But as we grow in knowledge we appreciate the Islamic rule. It is Allah's(swt) infinite wisdom to set rules so that the human can move towards achieving the state of perfection for which he is created. So without jumping to conclusions first lets set the base whether it is supported in Quran and hadith.

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Correct Shadi ki 14 sharte (14 terms of right marriage)

#45

Unread post by Muslim First » Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:25 am

I do not know if Br 6'U or H_S_U are parents of girls or brothers of girls.
Since they are all for Mutah.
I would hope and pray that their daughters or sister never come to them and tell them that they have entered in Mutah for one hour/one day/one week or any length of time.

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Correct Shadi ki 14 sharte (14 terms of right marriage)

#46

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:30 am

humble servant,

Here are my two statements that you say are contradictory

statement 1
No hadith is above the Quran. So if a hadith appears to be violating the Quran, then it is to be rejected. The hadith might be authentic, but if this hadith is authentic, then the hadith banning mutah is also authentic. Maybe the hadith you quoted happened before the command of the Quran. Hence the hadith might be authentic, but is no longer applicable
statement 2
If a hadith is reported by all six, then it is considered to be 100% authentic and others if it doesn't go against any commandment of the Quran.
I see complete consistency in both my statements. There is no contradiction. The fact is that mutah is against the commandment of the Quran. Any hadith that supports mutah is either fabrication or obsolete.

The shia claim that mutah is allowed as per 4:24 is pretty far fetched. I have posted many translation of 4:24 above and couldn't figure out how 4:24 allows mutah. Is there any other ayah in support of this mercy from Allah that will save us from zina?

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Correct Shadi ki 14 sharte (14 terms of right marriage)

#47

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:58 am

7:189 (Asad) IT IS HE who has created you [all] out of one living entity, and out of it brought into being its mate, so that man might incline [with love] towards woman. And so, when he has embraced her, she conceives [what at first is] a light burden, and continues to bear it. Then, when she grows heavy [with child], they both call unto God, their Sustainer, "If Thou indeed grant us a sound [child], we shall most certainly be among the grateful!" -

2:187 ...... they are as a garment for you, and you are as a garment for them........

Some more ayahs that indicate the violation that this mutah is of the Quran. A mutah female is not something a man wants to raise a child with and yet the meaning of a mate in the Quran is one whom you love and raise a burden (child) with. A man and a woman are a garment for each other. But this works only in a permanent marriage and not in mutah.

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Correct Shadi ki 14 sharte (14 terms of right marriage)

#48

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:32 am

I will be going through the links that our shia brothers have posted justifying mutah and will raise the issues that I run into over here.

http://www.answering-ansar.org/answers/ ... /index.php

http://www.al-islam.org/al-serat/muta/

http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/chapter6a/1.html


From the first link - What is mutah
Mut'ah is a type of marriage, used in the same way as a permanent marriage (Nikah) in order to make a man and woman physically halaal to each other.

Our shia brothers insist that mutah is not just for sex and yet time and time again we see that the purpose of mutah is physical only.

Iddah is obligatory upon women in Mut'ah, just like in Nikah i.e.
A woman cannot enter into Mut'ah marriage, till the time she has become pure by observing the 'iddah (waiting period) from her earlier husband.
And after expiration of Mut'ah marriage, again she has to observe 'iddah, before getting married (either Nikah or Mut'ah) to any other person.


The necessity of Mut'ah
Masturbation is a widespread problem
There are thousands of video centers supplying pornographic movies.
Pakistani cinemas show porn movies.
There are 'red light areas' in almost every city


Hence mutah = legalized zina. So, the reason for mutah? Sexual pleasure!!

Shia brothers give many arguments about why mutah is allowed. We can give the same exact same arguments to make pornography halaal as well. Pornography is a mercy from Allah because you are not touching a non-mehram woman and you are not entering into a temporary nikah. It helps you control your sexual urges and will prevent you from committing zina. You are not going to make the woman pregnant and since the porn star is not your wife, you do not need to treat her as per the Quran etc etc. All stupid arguments, I know!!

In this link - http://www.answering-ansar.org/answers/ ... /chap3.php sex is mentioned 46 times. Check it out. Mutah is all about satifying your sexual urges.

More to come.

aliabbas_aa
Posts: 320
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:21 am

Re: Correct Shadi ki 14 sharte (14 terms of right marriage)

#49

Unread post by aliabbas_aa » Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:02 am

and they take it real seriously, have come up for an online mutah site astagfirullah!
http://www.mutahmatch.com

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Correct Shadi ki 14 sharte (14 terms of right marriage)

#50

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:27 am

Four main evidences that prove that verse 4:24 refers to Mutah


First evidence- The fact that authentic Sunni books are replete with traditions informing us of episodes wherein the Sahabah performed temporary marriage (Mutah) and many of these traditions contain the same Arabic word istimta. Let us cite two such examples, first from Sahih Muslim, the second most authentic Sunni Hadith book.


A reverse approach. You cannot justfy Quran from hadith. You have to justify hadith from the Quran. If I use the word istimta for zina does it mean that the 4:24 is now referring to zina? Ofcourse not.

Second evidence - The fact that all Sunni commentators have recorded arguments regarding the permissibility or impermissibility of Mutah and have recorded the practices and views of the Sahaba, Tabaeen and Ulema regarding Mutah under the commentary of no other verse but 4:24. For those Nawasib who advance the notion that this verse does not deal with Mutah, we would like to ask them:

"Did the Sunni commentators of the Quran including the Nasibi's favourite Ibn Kathir, along with Imam Tabari, Qurtubi etc have no understanding as to what they were doing when they were advancing their arguments about Mutah under the commentary of 4:24?"


I looked at the Tafsir of ibn Kathir for this ayah - 4:24 at this link
http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option ... &Itemid=59
Here is what ibn Kathir says

(So with those among them whom you have enjoyed, give them their required due,) was revealed about the Mut`ah marriage. A Mut`ah marriage is a marriage that ends upon a predeterminied date. In the Two Sahihs, it is recorded that the Leader of the Faithful `Ali bin Abi Talib said, "The Messenger of Allah prohibited Mut`ah marriage and eating the meat of domesticated donkeys on the day of Khaybar (battle).'' In addition, in his Sahih, Muslim recorded that Ar-Rabi` bin Sabrah bin Ma`bad Al-Juhani said that his father said that he accompanied the Messenger of Allah during the conquest of Makkah, and that the Prophet said, (O people! I allowed you the Mut`ah marriage with women before. Now, Allah has prohibited it until the Day of Resurrection. Therefore, anyone who has any women in Mut`ah, let him let them go, and do not take anything from what you have given them.) Allah's statement, (but if you agree mutually (to give more) after the requirement (has been determined), there is no sin on you.)

Hence if the shia choose to cite ibn kathir for mutah in 4:24, then they have to cite him completely and not pick and choose parts that agree with them, out of context. Ibn Kathir clarifies 4:24 very well saying that it's condition is after the prohibition of mutah. I am pretty sure that the others like Qurtubi and Tabari that the author has chosen to quote say the same thing. But he has chosen to ignore that which doesn't suit him.

Here is an analogy of what the shia do with these scholars.

Scholar - Zina was allowed during the first year of the sun but was banned after that till the day of judgment.
Shia - The Scholar said, Zina was allowed.

badrijanab
Posts: 809
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:19 pm

Re: Correct Shadi ki 14 sharte (14 terms of right marriage)

#51

Unread post by badrijanab » Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:48 pm

ghulam muhammed wrote: 1) Agar Sunni molvi ke zariye se nikah padhte hai aur above sharton ka palan hoova hai to kya nikah valid hai ya phir bhi invalid hai ?
Nikah valid he.
ghulam muhammed wrote: 2) Agar bohra molvi ke zariye se nikah padhte hai aur above sharton ka palan nahi hoova hai to kya nikah invalid hai ya phir valid hai kyu ki molvi bohra hai ?
Nikah invalid he.

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Correct Shadi ki 14 sharte (14 terms of right marriage)

#52

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:29 pm

Third evidence - The fact that many of the prominent Sahaba and Tabayeen that present day Nawasib adhere to would read the cited verse with some extra words, making it crystal clear that the verse referred to temporary marriage. They would recite the verse in this manner:
"And those of whom ye seek content (by marrying them) for a specified period…"
The recitation of the words 'for a specified period' by the Sahaba and Taba'een proves this to be the verse dealing with Mutah in which the period of marriage is specified.


I have no idea what this third evidence means.

Fourth evidence - The fact that the leading Sahaba, Tabayeen and scholars clearly stated that verse 4:24 refers to 'temporary marriage' leaves no ground for our opponents to bring absurd excuses. We read the testimony of the great jurist, Mujahid who stated:

"This (verse) revealed for Mut'ah marriage"
Tafseer Ibn Katheer


This follows the path of the analogy that I stated earlier about shias quoting scholars either wrongly or out of context. Ibn Katheer says quite a bit about mutah after this sentence, but this author decided not to include all that because that would've been detrimental to the false evidence that he was providing. This author goes on to quote a lot of authors, but stops at the end of this sentence. Never giving the full commentary on mutah by any of those scholars. I have given the example of Ibn Katheer to point out the deceptive ways of this author and I do not need to go into the details from the other authors. I think I have given sufficient evidence to discard the first link provided by our shia brother. I will now move onto the second link, but I am pretty sure that we will find nothing new.

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Correct Shadi ki 14 sharte (14 terms of right marriage)

#53

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:17 pm

Let us now look at this link provided by our shia brother

http://www.al-islam.org/al-serat/muta/

IN ISLAM the word most commonly employed for marriage is nikah, which means literally 'sexual intercourse'.

According to this author, nikah literally means sexual intercourse. So if you translate the quran as per the this author then

33:50 (Asad) O PROPHET! Behold, We have made lawful to thee thy wives unto whom thou hast paid their dowers, as well as those whom thy right hand has come to possess from among the captives of war whom God has bestowed upon thee. And [We have made lawful to thee] the daughters of thy paternal uncles and aunts, and the daughters of thy maternal uncles and aunts, who have migrated with thee [to Yathrib]; and any believing woman who offers herself freely to the Prophet and whom the Prophet might be willing to wed: [this latter being but] a privilege for thee, and not for other believers - [seeing that] We have already made known what We have enjoined upon them with regard to their wives and those whom their right hands may possess. [And] in order that thou be not burdened with [undue] anxiety - for God is indeed much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace – -

will become

33:50 (Asad) O PROPHET! Behold, We have made lawful to thee thy wives unto whom thou hast paid their dowers, as well as those whom thy right hand has come to possess from among the captives of war whom God has bestowed upon thee. And [We have made lawful to thee] the daughters of thy paternal uncles and aunts, and the daughters of thy maternal uncles and aunts, who have migrated with thee [to Yathrib]; and any believing woman who offers herself freely to the Prophet and whom the Prophet might be willing to have sexual intercourse : [this latter being but] a privilege for thee, and not for other believers - [seeing that] We have already made known what We have enjoined upon them with regard to their wives and those whom their right hands may possess. [And] in order that thou be not burdened with [undue] anxiety - for God is indeed much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace – -

33:53 (Asad) O YOU who have attained to faith! Do not enter the Prophet’s dwellings unless you are given leave; [and when invited] to a meal, do not come [so early as] to wait for it to be readied: but whenever you are invited, enter [at the proper time]; and when you have partaken of the meal, disperse without lingering for the sake of mere talk: that, behold, might give offence to the Prophet, and yet he might feel shy of [asking] you [to leave]: but God is not shy of [teaching you] what is right. And [as for the Prophet’s wives,] whenever you ask them for anything that you need, ask them from behind a screen: this will but deepen the purity of your hearts and theirs. Moreover, it does not behove you to give offence to God’s Apostle - just as it would not behove you ever to marry his widows after he has passed away: that, verily, would be an enormity in the sight of God. -

will become

33:53 (Asad) O YOU who have attained to faith! Do not enter the Prophet’s dwellings unless you are given leave; [and when invited] to a meal, do not come [so early as] to wait for it to be readied: but whenever you are invited, enter [at the proper time]; and when you have partaken of the meal, disperse without lingering for the sake of mere talk: that, behold, might give offence to the Prophet, and yet he might feel shy of [asking] you [to leave]: but God is not shy of [teaching you] what is right. And [as for the Prophet’s wives,] whenever you ask them for anything that you need, ask them from behind a screen: this will but deepen the purity of your hearts and theirs. Moreover, it does not behove you to give offence to God’s Apostle - just as it would not behove you ever to have sexual intercourse with his widows after he has passed away: that, verily, would be an enormity in the sight of God. -


33:49 (Asad) O YOU who have attained to faith! If you marry believing women and then divorce them ere you have touched them, you have no reason to expect, and to calculate, any waiting period on their part: hence, make [at once] provision for them, and release them in a becoming manner.

will become

33:49 (Asad) O YOU who have attained to faith! If you have sexual intercourse with believing women and then divorce them ere you have touched them, you have no reason to expect, and to calculate, any waiting period on their part: hence, make [at once] provision for them, and release them in a becoming manner.

Does anyone see a problem with this?

More to come.

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Correct Shadi ki 14 sharte (14 terms of right marriage)

#54

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:30 pm

Found something interesting on this link. Our brothers stated earlier that mutah is not only for sex but it might also be for couples to know each other before permanent marriage. Look at this

It is also reprehensible, without any exceptions, to contract a temporary marriage with a virgin, by reason of the words of the Imam Ja'far: 'It is reprehensible, because it is a stain upon her family.' [29] If a contract should nevertheless be concluded, it is not permissible for the man to consummate the marriage, unless the marriage took place with the permission of her father-a condition almost impossible to imagine in Muslim society. 'A virgin may not be married temporarily without her father's permission' (the Imam al-Rida). [30]

Since mutah cannot be done with a married woman that means for mutah you need either a divorced woman or a widow.

I've read quite a bit of what is posted in those links and I see nothing that changes my mind. It infact solidifies my contention that this practice is an abomination.

Some more gems from this link

It is not permissible for the parties to stipulate in the contract 'one act of intercourse' or the like without mentioning a time period

However, if the time period is mentioned along with the condition that the marriage will entail only a certain number of sexual acts, the contract is correct
Here the juridical principle that comes into play is enunciated in the Prophet's saying: 'The believers hold fast to their conditions [when they stipulate them in agreements]. ' - In such a situation, as soon as the man has performed the agreed number of sexual acts, further sexual intercourse with the woman is forbidden, even if the time period has not elapsed.
They use the prophet's saying for this - Shame!!


A complication would arise in the above situation if, after the woman has been forbidden to the man, she gives him permission to engage in further acts of sexual intercourse. Is the man allowed to have intercourse or not? Here there are two opinions. According to the first, there is a definite obstacle to sexual relations. For the contract does not allow any further sexual acts, so the permission of the woman is immaterial, since it is not sufficient to override the stipulations of the contract and legitimize relations. According to the second opinion, intercourse is permitted. Since in mut'a-in contrast to permanent marriage-a woman does not have the right to initiate a sexual act, the obstacle to sexual relations in the present situation is the woman's unwillingness to permit anything more than what was agreed upon in the contract, But the contract itself establishes the permissibility of intercourse. So if the obstacle is removed, the result will be that the contract as such will come into play.

If the role of the time period is to contain a stipulated number of sexual acts, whenever the number is finished, the woman is free of any further obligation to the man. It goes without saying that if the stipulated number of sexual acts is not performed by the end of the time period, the marriage still comes to an end.


What garbage!!

sixfeetunder
Posts: 433
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:48 am

Re: Correct Shadi ki 14 sharte (14 terms of right marriage)

#55

Unread post by sixfeetunder » Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:16 am

anajmi wrote:Correct. A marriage can end only through a divorce. An agreement which lets a couple stayed married for a night is not a marriage but is prostitution with paper work. It is like legal prostitution. Nothing more nothing less. Does a mutah-ed girl have to go through iddah? Yes she does. What the heck are you people following? There is no divorce, but there is iddah!!!

Do not play with religion. Does a spouse who leaves Islam have to go through iddah?
We are simply following a law of Islam. A kind of marriage made permissible to Muslims by the Prophet himself.

Narrated 'Abdullah Ibn Masud: We used to participate in the holy battles led by Allah's Apostle and we had nothing (no wives) with us. So we said, "Shall we get ourselves castrated (for fear of making sin)?" He forbade us (to castrate ourselves) and then allowed us to marry women with a temporary contract (Mut'ah) and recited to us: 'O you who believe! Make not unlawful the good things, which Allah has made lawful for you, but commit no transgression.' (5.87) {Sahih al Bukhari Volume 7 tradition 13a}

If you think Muta marriage is 'Zina with paperwork', then what in the world is having sex with "what your right hand possesses"?

Successful are the believers, who are filled with awe in their salat, who turn away from vein talk, who give in charity, and who protect their chastity, except with their wives *OR* those whom their right hands possess. {Al-Qur'an, Surah 23, Ayah 1-7}

There is also no limit as to the number of slave-women that one may possess.

Clearly, then marriage is not the only form of halaal sexual activity in Islam. Slave-girls are not wives; otherwise Allah (swt) would not have used the word "or" (au). Yet what the Wahabis are arguing is that the only form of sexual relation that is not fornication, which does not contradict chastity, is permanent marriage (Nikah). Yet the poverty of this argument is made unavoidably clear by these words of Allah (swt). Is the permissibility of sexual relations between slave-master and slave-girl then, what the Wahabis would call "an open license for sexual pleasure with as many women as one can financially afford"?

We know from fiqh that the only limit on the number of concubines one may purchase is his financial strength. Yet such a relationship would seem to fall precisely in line with the condemnation that these Wahabis have issued against Mut'ah, viz., that "it is an open license for sexual pleasure with as many women as one can financially afford." Put in its most basic terms, the permissibility of concubinage is nothing other than this: yet all agree that it is halaal, and its permissibility is born witness to again and again in the Holy Qur'an. If the Wahabis seek to deny that this verse refers to the permissibility of a slave-master having sexual relations with his slave-woman without a marriage, then they should refer to Ibn Kathir, who writes about this verse:

(And those who guard their private parts. Except from their wives and their right hand possessions, for then, they are free from blame. But whoever seeks beyond that, then those are the transgressors.) means, those who protect their private parts from unlawful actions and do not do that which Allah has forbidden; fornication and homosexuality, and do not approach anyone except the wives whom Allah has made permissible for them or their right hand possessions from the captives. One who seeks what Allah has made permissible for him is not to be blamed and there is no sin on him.

http://www.answering-ansar.org/answers/ ... /chap5.php

sixfeetunder
Posts: 433
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:48 am

Re: Correct Shadi ki 14 sharte (14 terms of right marriage)

#56

Unread post by sixfeetunder » Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:15 am

Aarif wrote:SixFeetUnder,

I have mentioned in my post that even if Mutah is supported by Quran and Hadith it should be banned. Think logically. Mutah is a temporary form of marriage. Why would someone marry someone to help? People on this very forum are helping poors in Ahemadabad. Do they really care who gets their money as long as the right needy people get their money. So why do you think that one has to marry to help someone in need? People who perform Mutah mostly do it on the pretext of helping the girl by converting her into mehram in favor of physical relationship. By calling it a temporary form of marriage you cannot change the facts. Even in prostitution the person can stay with a women for as many days he wants by paying money. Tell me one thing frankly. Is a Mutah with a prostitute acceptable? Will that make sex with her legitimate? And also tell me roughly what percentage of people perform Mutah for reasons other then sex? And do the poor girls who want to feed their hungry families have a choice? How can you be so sure that Mutah is not performed forcefully? Remember, if poor girls perform Mutah they mostly do out of helplessness because no girl would want to sleep with a man knowing that he will abondon her after a few days. I believe as educated people we should think about such issues and try to reform them intead of supporting them.
My point is that any law can be virtually misused. We need a system where laws become difficult to misuse. Mutah as a form of prostitution should not be encouraged at all. Women can be exploited, I agree. But if a woman says no to exploitation, no one can exploit her.

As for Mutah with a prostitute, I do not think it is allowed. There are certain conditions for Mutah. Most conditions are similar to those of permanent marriage.

Reform can be brought about without changing the laws of God. All we need is awareness. Mutah is merely an option. Even sex with slaves is an option in Islam but there is no open slavery today in the world and hence the option is as good as redundant. However, if a man wants to exploit this rule, he may purchase a girl from a poor family, ravage her and justify his act in the name of religion.

As for Mutah, There may come a time, say after a thousand years - the world may be a very different place. The institution of permanent marriage may fade. Promiscuity may reach unimaginable heights, like it is already in certain countries. Temporary marriage may be the answer to such a situation.

I know many Ithna-Asheri Shii'tes who have used temporary marriage, not for sex, but to get acquainted to their wives-to-be. I know so many Bohra and non-Bohra friends who have had intimate relations with their fiancees before marriage. Now, Is this not a sin? Other Muslims who are strict adherents of Islam don't even allow the would-be bride and groom to talk openly and know each other before marriage. I personally feel Mutah marriage is an ideal solution for this problem.

One more thing - Punishment for fornication and adultery are very stringent in Islam. 100 lashes for a fornicator (unmarried) and death penalty for an adulterer (married person having sex outside marriage, although requiring 4 eligible eye-witnesses).

Many people say that if Allah is merciful, why are the punishments so cruel - The answer is that Allah has opened many legal doors for you. In spite of these legal ways to fulfill your natural instincts, if you choose an unlawful way, you will be punished for transgression of Allah's laws. Allah is indeed merciful.
Last edited by sixfeetunder on Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

sixfeetunder
Posts: 433
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:48 am

Re: Correct Shadi ki 14 sharte (14 terms of right marriage)

#57

Unread post by sixfeetunder » Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:18 am

anajmi wrote:7:189 (Asad) IT IS HE who has created you [all] out of one living entity, and out of it brought into being its mate, so that man might incline [with love] towards woman. And so, when he has embraced her, she conceives [what at first is] a light burden, and continues to bear it. Then, when she grows heavy [with child], they both call unto God, their Sustainer, "If Thou indeed grant us a sound [child], we shall most certainly be among the grateful!" -

2:187 ...... they are as a garment for you, and you are as a garment for them........

Some more ayahs that indicate the violation that this mutah is of the Quran. A mutah female is not something a man wants to raise a child with and yet the meaning of a mate in the Quran is one whom you love and raise a burden (child) with. A man and a woman are a garment for each other. But this works only in a permanent marriage and not in mutah.
Same applies to 'what your right hands possess'. So, sex with slaves is also a violation of the very Qur'an that permits it?

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Correct Shadi ki 14 sharte (14 terms of right marriage)

#58

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:23 am

We are simply following a law of Islam. A kind of marriage made permissible to Muslims by the Prophet himself.
The amount of evidence that the prophet (saw) banned it is just as much as he permitted (if not more) and from the ayahs of the Quran it is quite clear that mutah is not permitted.

Let us not compare mutah and slave girl sex. There are many ayahs in the Quran about sex with slave girls and you have to go through hoops to justify mutah from the Quran. Unfortunately, you cannot produce anything more for mutah beyond what has already been refuted, can you?
(And those who guard their private parts. Except from their wives and their right hand possessions, for then, they are free from blame. But whoever seeks beyond that, then those are the transgressors.) means, those who protect their private parts from unlawful actions and do not do that which Allah has forbidden; fornication and homosexuality, and do not approach anyone except the wives whom Allah has made permissible for them or their right hand possessions from the captives. One who seeks what Allah has made permissible for him is not to be blamed and there is no sin on him.
It is quite clear from this ayah that there are only two categories from whom you do not need to guard your private parts. Unfortunately for the shia, mutah doesn't fall in either category. Hence it falls under the forbidden fornication rule.

sixfeetunder
Posts: 433
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:48 am

Re: Correct Shadi ki 14 sharte (14 terms of right marriage)

#59

Unread post by sixfeetunder » Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:30 am

anajmi wrote:Four main evidences that prove that verse 4:24 refers to Mutah


First evidence- The fact that authentic Sunni books are replete with traditions informing us of episodes wherein the Sahabah performed temporary marriage (Mutah) and many of these traditions contain the same Arabic word istimta. Let us cite two such examples, first from Sahih Muslim, the second most authentic Sunni Hadith book.


A reverse approach. You cannot justfy Quran from hadith. You have to justify hadith from the Quran. If I use the word istimta for zina does it mean that the 4:24 is now referring to zina? Ofcourse not.

Second evidence - The fact that all Sunni commentators have recorded arguments regarding the permissibility or impermissibility of Mutah and have recorded the practices and views of the Sahaba, Tabaeen and Ulema regarding Mutah under the commentary of no other verse but 4:24. For those Nawasib who advance the notion that this verse does not deal with Mutah, we would like to ask them:

"Did the Sunni commentators of the Quran including the Nasibi's favourite Ibn Kathir, along with Imam Tabari, Qurtubi etc have no understanding as to what they were doing when they were advancing their arguments about Mutah under the commentary of 4:24?"


I looked at the Tafsir of ibn Kathir for this ayah - 4:24 at this link
http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option ... &Itemid=59
Here is what ibn Kathir says

(So with those among them whom you have enjoyed, give them their required due,) was revealed about the Mut`ah marriage. A Mut`ah marriage is a marriage that ends upon a predeterminied date. In the Two Sahihs, it is recorded that the Leader of the Faithful `Ali bin Abi Talib said, "The Messenger of Allah prohibited Mut`ah marriage and eating the meat of domesticated donkeys on the day of Khaybar (battle).'' In addition, in his Sahih, Muslim recorded that Ar-Rabi` bin Sabrah bin Ma`bad Al-Juhani said that his father said that he accompanied the Messenger of Allah during the conquest of Makkah, and that the Prophet said, (O people! I allowed you the Mut`ah marriage with women before. Now, Allah has prohibited it until the Day of Resurrection. Therefore, anyone who has any women in Mut`ah, let him let them go, and do not take anything from what you have given them.) Allah's statement, (but if you agree mutually (to give more) after the requirement (has been determined), there is no sin on you.)

Hence if the shia choose to cite ibn kathir for mutah in 4:24, then they have to cite him completely and not pick and choose parts that agree with them, out of context. Ibn Kathir clarifies 4:24 very well saying that it's condition is after the prohibition of mutah. I am pretty sure that the others like Qurtubi and Tabari that the author has chosen to quote say the same thing. But he has chosen to ignore that which doesn't suit him.

Here is an analogy of what the shia do with these scholars.

Scholar - Zina was allowed during the first year of the sun but was banned after that till the day of judgment.
Shia - The Scholar said, Zina was allowed.
An entire section on that site is dedicated to 'Quranic evidences for the legitimacy of Mut'ah'. It would save us a lot of time if you read stuff properly.

As for the 'On the day of Khaybar' hadith, it has already been debunked in an earlier post I made. Please care to read everything if you are debating. As that hadith has already been taken care of, so your accusation stands nowhere. However, since the existence of Muta has been proved, your accusation of Muta being prostitution, invented by Shii'tes is an insult to the Holy Prophet (saw) for which you should be ashamed.

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Correct Shadi ki 14 sharte (14 terms of right marriage)

#60

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:38 am

An entire section on that site is dedicated to 'Quranic evidences for the legitimacy of Mut'ah'. It would save us a lot of time if you read stuff properly.
I did. And as I said, I didn't find anything enlightening to change my opinion. Infact, I have refuted a lot of stuff posted on those sites over here and I could post more, but I think I have made my point.
As for the 'On the day of Khaybar' hadith, it has already been debunked in an earlier post I made.
Actually, that was a completely idiotic argument. The hadith says the prophet (saw) banned mutah. Simple. The argument about assess and day of khaybar is a red herring. Also, if you think you have debunked the Tafsir of Ibn Kathir then you shouldn't be quoting Tafsir Ibn Kathir to justify mutah from the Quran.