Molana Aadam (a) - Dawoodi Bohra Perspective

Given modern distractions, the need to understand Islam better has never been more urgent. Through this forum we can share ideas and hopefully promote the true spirit of Islam which calls for peace, justice, tolerance, inclusiveness and diversity.
bohraji
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Re: Molana Aadam (a) - Dawoodi Bohra Perspective

#31

Unread post by bohraji » Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:29 am

aliabbas_aa wrote:You are right we should:
Live like Rasullallah saws Only
(You have indeed in the Messenger of Allah an excellent example for him who hopes in Allah and the Last Day, and who remembers Allah much. (33:21))
and death is not in our control but we all should pray for martyrdom for the sake of ALLAH swt alone.
@Profastian,
Where in the above words,do you find venom?
Are you OK?

sixfeetunder
Posts: 433
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:48 am

Re: Molana Aadam (a) - Dawoodi Bohra Perspective

#32

Unread post by sixfeetunder » Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:36 am

Badrijanab wrote: Similarly, if one will search for about Allah's character like height, weight, bredth and mass - one cannot get this knowledge in the Quran, they all form as exception.
Height, weight, breadth and mass are units of measurement created by humans to facilitate understanding of quantities. Anything which can be measured is not Allah. Please get rid of this wrongful notion of God. Allah cannot be 'characterized'. Allah is not anthropomorphic. Please read first two parts of sermon number 90 from Nahjul Balagha.

Badrijanab wrote: Thus, non-Bohras dogma is incorrect that Prophet Mohammed s.a. do not know future.
First of all this is not a 'dogma' in the general sense of the word. Secondly, Muslims of all denomination believe in the Prophet's knowledge of the unseen. Wahhabis/Salafi/Ahl-e-hadith also believe in it but in a different way and to a different extent.

The core/keys of the Knowledge of Ghayb is with Allah, but He may release "a news of Ghayb" to the one He wills. To give a simple example, consider a person who looks at a monitor which displays some part of a database located in the hard drive of a computer. The user can retrieve any part of this database and see it on the monitor. But the whole database is always in the computer and not in the user's head. Furthermore, the user is unaware of any real-time modifications that may happen to this data base and the formulas behind the modifications.

According to the Quran, things which are special property of Allah, such as creation, giving life, curing without medicine, the knowledge of what has happened and what will happen, may either be momentarily given by Him at the moment they are required, or else the power and ability to do them may be given so that they can be used when necessary, by the permission of Allah. An example of the latter comes in the story of Prophet Jesus (AS) who, according to Quran, said:

"I have come to you with a sign from your Lord; I will CREATE for you out of clay a figure of a bird, then I will breath into it, and it will be a bird by leave of Allah; I will also HEAL the blind and the leper, and BRING TO LIFE the dead, by leave of Allah. I will also INFORM you of what things you eat and what you treasure up in your houses. Surely, in that is a sign for you, if you are believers." (Quran 3:49; see also 5:110)

Source for above: http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/chapter2/6.html


The following verses show that Allah acquainted the Holy Prophet with some of his mysteries:

[Yusufali 72:26] "He (alone) knows the Unseen, nor does He make any one acquainted with His Mysteries,-
[Yusufali 72:27] "Except a messenger whom He has chosen: and then He makes a band of watchers march before him and behind him,

anajmi
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Re: Molana Aadam (a) - Dawoodi Bohra Perspective

#33

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:01 am

Aayat 6:59 says Quran has all faculties of knowledge (including unseen/forecast) - like most matters this rule too have its exception:
If that is an exception, then here are a few other questions that I would you to search for answers in the Quran.

1) What is the date of the zuhoor of Imam mehdi? (lunar and solar)
2) What is the date of the wafat of Imam mehdi?
3) Will Obama win the elections this year?
4) When is Palestine going to be free?

I have a thousand more questions, but start with these 4. And please don't tell me that the Quran doesn't have the answers for these because these are exceptions as well!!

profastian
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Re: Molana Aadam (a) - Dawoodi Bohra Perspective

#34

Unread post by profastian » Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:41 am

bohraji wrote:
aliabbas_aa wrote:You are right we should:
Live like Rasullallah saws Only
(You have indeed in the Messenger of Allah an excellent example for him who hopes in Allah and the Last Day, and who remembers Allah much. (33:21))
and death is not in our control but we all should pray for martyrdom for the sake of ALLAH swt alone.
@Profastian,
Where in the above words,do you find venom?
Are you OK?
Rasullallah saws Only

sixfeetunder
Posts: 433
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:48 am

Re: Molana Aadam (a) - Dawoodi Bohra Perspective

#35

Unread post by sixfeetunder » Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:51 am

profastian wrote:
bohraji wrote: @Profastian,
Where in the above words,do you find venom?
Are you OK?
Rasullallah saws Only
Whenever Ali (a.s) or Hussain (a.s) are mentioned, this is the typical Wahhabi knee-jerk reaction. I am not surprised one bit. This is the litmus test for recognizing those who have a grudge against Ahle bayt. Sometimes they themselves are unaware that they nurse this grudge.

"By him who split up the seed and created something living, the Apostle (may peace and blessing be upon him) gave me a promise that no one but a believer would love me, and none but a hypocrite would nurse grudge against me'.
Sahih Muslim, English version, Chapter XXXIV, p46, Tradition #141


"We recognized the hypocrites by their hatred of Ali."
1. Fada'il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v2, p639, Tradition 1086
2. al-Isti'ab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, v3, p47
3. al-Riyad al-Nadirah, by al-Muhibb al-Tabari, v3, p242



When The words 'Live like Ali, Die like Hussain' were mentioned, this Wahhabi brother immediately mentioned 'Live like Prophet only', thus exposing his inherent grudge and problem with the names of Ali and Hussain. Ofcourse, the Prophet is the best example to follow. Ali (a.s) learned everything from the Prophet himself. Hence, when we say 'Live like Ali', we are not comparing Ali with the Prophet but in fact we are complimenting the Prophet. Praise for Ali is praise for Prophet because Ali was brought up and taught by the Prophet himself.

anajmi
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Re: Molana Aadam (a) - Dawoodi Bohra Perspective

#36

Unread post by anajmi » Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:53 am

Have you ever heard a shia say Live Like Rasul or Ya Rasul Madad? That is because the shia hate the prophet (saw)!! How will you recognize a shia? Ask him to lift a big stone and listen to what he says. Does he Bismillah or does he say Ya Ali Madad? This is a litmus test for recognizing a shia!!

Peace
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Re: Molana Aadam (a) - Dawoodi Bohra Perspective

#37

Unread post by Peace » Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:31 am

badrijanab wrote:
Peace wrote:Dear Badrijanab,

Your copy paste articles are very unique and informative.

Only Allah knows how much authentic they are.

Can you please ask your source to prove Imamat concept from the Quran?
Ok
I am still waiting. :?:

aliabbas_aa
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Re: Molana Aadam (a) - Dawoodi Bohra Perspective

#38

Unread post by aliabbas_aa » Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:56 am

sixfeetunder wrote:
profastian wrote:You are right we should:

Whenever Ali (a.s) or Hussain (a.s) are mentioned, this is the typical Wahhabi knee-jerk reaction. I am not surprised one bit. This is the litmus test for recognizing those who have a grudge against Ahle bayt. Sometimes they themselves are unaware that they nurse this grudge.

"By him who split up the seed and created something living, the Apostle (may peace and blessing be upon him) gave me a promise that no one but a believer would love me, and none but a hypocrite would nurse grudge against me'.
Sahih Muslim, English version, Chapter XXXIV, p46, Tradition #141


"We recognized the hypocrites by their hatred of Ali."
1. Fada'il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v2, p639, Tradition 1086
2. al-Isti'ab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, v3, p47
3. al-Riyad al-Nadirah, by al-Muhibb al-Tabari, v3, p242



When The words 'Live like Ali, Die like Hussain' were mentioned, this Wahhabi brother immediately mentioned 'Live like Prophet only', thus exposing his inherent grudge and problem with the names of Ali and Hussain. Ofcourse, the Prophet is the best example to follow. Ali (a.s) learned everything from the Prophet himself. Hence, when we say 'Live like Ali', we are not comparing Ali with the Prophet but in fact we are complimenting the Prophet. Praise for Ali is praise for Prophet because Ali was brought up and taught by the Prophet himself.
What would one gain in having grudge over ahlel bayt? you should think twice before slandering muslims and accusing them of grudge against ahlebayt which is indeed kufr.

Did Ali ever say live like me and die like hussain? He always emphasized the importance of rasullallah ALONE. And QURAN makes it very clear that Rasul saw alone is the best example to follow. You can see in a typical shia masjid only Ali and Hussain are glorified leaving behind rasul saw.
Infact i had done a survey among old "religious " bohri aunties who go for tasbeeh of ali and most of them could not even specify what is the relation b\w Ali and fatema . Infact my mom thought Fatema was the mother of Ali. In another instance i asked a young full time namazi bori what is the diff between sunni and shia, to my surprise that person said the difference is that sunni do not believe in the prophet hood of ALI. I was just shocked by the answer and realized how much brainwashing is going under the pretext of nooah and matam .

profastian
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Re: Molana Aadam (a) - Dawoodi Bohra Perspective

#39

Unread post by profastian » Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:31 am

aliabbas_aa wrote:Infact my mom thought Fatema was the mother of Ali. .
Now we know why you turned out like this. no wonder

anajmi
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Re: Molana Aadam (a) - Dawoodi Bohra Perspective

#40

Unread post by anajmi » Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:03 pm

Well, at least, he is reformed now. But you are still the same brain washed abde idiot. :wink:

profastian
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Re: Molana Aadam (a) - Dawoodi Bohra Perspective

#41

Unread post by profastian » Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:23 pm

On second thought, your mother might have been talking about Fatima bint Asad, so my apologies to her for being hasty.
Now i still wonder how you turned out like this. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

aliabbas_aa
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Re: Molana Aadam (a) - Dawoodi Bohra Perspective

#42

Unread post by aliabbas_aa » Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:00 pm

Ofcourse that was the same fatema a.s who is called zahra and not fatima bint asad , she still does not know that deep!

Adam
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Re: Molana Aadam (a) - Dawoodi Bohra Perspective

#43

Unread post by Adam » Wed Jul 18, 2012 3:17 am

Nice to know this new character aliabbas_aa ("New", or maybe i've missed him before).

He isn't a Proggy, he's like Doctor, a student of Ahmed Ali Raj (who was his spiritual leader). I don't know who the Udaipuri Non Dawoodi Bohras follow after Ahmed Ali.




MurtazaVds
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Re: Molana Aadam (a) - Dawoodi Bohra Perspective

#44

Unread post by MurtazaVds » Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:06 am

New Bees of Wahabism...........In Hindi There is a saying "Akal Pe Pathar Padna"..... hope he got some :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

sixfeetunder
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Re: Molana Aadam (a) - Dawoodi Bohra Perspective

#45

Unread post by sixfeetunder » Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:22 am

aliabbas_aa wrote:What would one gain in having grudge over ahlel bayt?
Political hegemony of Wahhabis over Muslims.
you should think twice before slandering muslims and accusing them of grudge against ahlebayt which is indeed kufr.
I pointed out a simple logical observation. When 'Live like Ali and Die like Hussain' were mentioned, you jumped in your seat and said 'Live like Prophet only'. You could have said 'MashaAllah, one should live like Ali and die like Hussain, the Prophet loved them and extolled their virtues'. Had your response been something like this, I would not have bothered. But your response was such that any level-minded person would smell something fishy. And hence, I showed you the mirror. A grudge is defined as 'A resentment strong enough to justify retaliation'. Your answer to 'Live like Ali, Die like Hussain' fits in perfectly with the definition of a 'grudge'. Had something like 'Live like Sahabas and die like them' been written, I am very sure that there would not have been a similar response from you. Hence, I defend my statements. If you think otherwise, please prove me wrong and I will take back my charge against you.
Did Ali ever say live like me and die like hussain? He always emphasized the importance of rasullallah ALONE. And QURAN makes it very clear that Rasul saw alone is the best example to follow. You can see in a typical shia masjid only Ali and Hussain are glorified leaving behind rasul saw.
There is a corpus of Quranic verses and ahadith of the Prophet that extol the virtues of Ahlul bayt. Also, as I have said earlier, the Prophet is the best example to follow. Ali (a.s) learned everything from the Prophet himself. Hence, when we say 'Live like Ali', we are not comparing Ali with the Prophet but in fact we are complimenting the Prophet. Praise for Ali is praise for Prophet because Ali was brought up and taught by the Prophet himself.

Hussain, Ali and Prophet are not at loggerheads with each other, that the Prophet would be 'left behind'. I do not know which 'typical shia masjids' you have visited. Prophet is the fountainhead in the Shii'te faith. His teachings have been elucidated by the Ahlul Bayt. The twelver Shii'tes always send salwaat on Muhammad and Aal-e-Muhammad. The Prophet comes first. Maybe you have only attended Bohra majaalis and hence you think this way.

Infact i had done a survey among old "religious " bohri aunties who go for tasbeeh of ali and most of them could not even specify what is the relation b\w Ali and fatema . Infact my mom thought Fatema was the mother of Ali. In another instance i asked a young full time namazi bori what is the diff between sunni and shia, to my surprise that person said the difference is that sunni do not believe in the prophet hood of ALI. I was just shocked by the answer and realized how much brainwashing is going under the pretext of nooah and matam .
Old 'religious' aunties, if they are ignorant, it doesn't matter which sect they belong to. You may find old religious Wahhabi aunties thinking that Shii'tes have 'tails' or that Shii'tes fornicate in the masjids on Ashura. Old religious Barelvi aunties may tell you stories about Abdul Qadir Jilani which would make you shout 'Shirk Shirk Shirk'. So, it is a good sign that you have a thirst for knowledge but let me warn you that if you take everything blindly from the Wahhabis alone, there would be not be much difference between you and the ones (Bohris) whom you now condemn vociferously.

aliabbas_aa
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Re: Molana Aadam (a) - Dawoodi Bohra Perspective

#46

Unread post by aliabbas_aa » Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:39 am

Political hegemony of Wahhabis over Muslims.
pure slander

Hussain, Ali and Prophet are not at loggerheads with each other, that the Prophet would be 'left behind'. I do not know which 'typical shia masjids' you have visited. Prophet is the fountainhead in the Shii'te faith. His teachings have been elucidated by the Ahlul Bayt. The twelver Shii'tes always send salwaat on Muhammad and Aal-e-Muhammad. The Prophet comes first. Maybe you have only attended Bohra majaalis and hence you think this way.
I used to attend athar rizvi 's lectures at isna ashri mughal masjid near dongri and i see the pulpit itself decorated with Alams, panjas etc which is worse then a bori masjid , every thing except the sayings and sunnah of rasullalah was said and done (mostly satanic rituals were performed there).
Old 'religious' aunties, if they are ignorant, it doesn't matter which sect they belong to. You may find old religious Wahhabi aunties thinking that Shii'tes have 'tails' or that Shii'tes fornicate in the masjids on Ashura. Old religious Barelvi aunties may tell you stories about Abdul Qadir Jilani which would make you shout 'Shirk Shirk Shirk'. So, it is a good sign that you have a thirst for knowledge but let me warn you that if you take everything blindly from the Wahhabis alone, there would be not be much difference between you and the ones (Bohris) whom you now condemn vociferously.
I have met old wahhabi aunties and they are not ignorant at all and more of a scholar , they run word-word quran classes, dars quran , dars hadith etc whereas the bori and shia counterparts indulge in maajlis\matam\ali tasbih all this things are intellectually eroding. A typical bori majlis of the aunties end with gossips and panchaat.
They dont even know the basics of Islam and only see ali, husain,etc(except muhammad pbuh!) as idols for worship.

Muslim First
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Re: Molana Aadam (a) - Dawoodi Bohra Perspective

#47

Unread post by Muslim First » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:04 am

6'U
His teachings have been elucidated by the Ahlul Bayt. The twelver Shii'tes always send salwaat on Muhammad and Aal-e-Muhammad. The Prophet comes first.
Really want me to post Hadit by Imams from Shia collections?
So do mainstream Muslims without worshipful ness of Ali, Fatema, Hassan and Hssein.

sixfeetunder
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Re: Molana Aadam (a) - Dawoodi Bohra Perspective

#48

Unread post by sixfeetunder » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:16 am

pure slander
The betrothal of Sauds with Wahhabs for political and religious sovereignty is common knowledge and not slander.
I used to attend athar rizvi 's lectures at isna ashri mughal masjid near dongri and i see the pulpit itself decorated with Alams, panjas etc which is worse then a bori masjid , every thing except the sayings and sunnah of rasullalah was said and done (mostly satanic rituals were performed there).
What is wrong with the pulpit being decorated? Why do the Wahhabis decorate the Holy Kaa'ba with ridiculously expensive embroidery? Alams and panjas are not idols, just like the Holy Kaa'ba is not. Alams and panjas are a cultural manifestation of faith. Just like you kiss the Hajr-e-aswad near the Kaaba, knowing that it cannot benefit or harm you by itself, the Shii'tes respect these symbols which evoke the memory of Ahlul bayt's sacrifice for Allah. Also, Maulana Athar's majalis at Mughal masjid is mass-oriented. You can visit the Khoja-Shia mosque after maghrib namaaz if you want to see Maulana Athar in a different avatar. And why do you judge the ithna Asharis based on a single Maulana? If you are serious in your quest for knowledge, I suggest you google 'Sayed Ammar Nakshawani' and 'Hasnain RajabAli'. These are very knowledgeable English speakers.

I have met old wahhabi aunties and they are not ignorant at all and more of a scholar , they run word-word quran classes, dars quran , dars hadith etc whereas the bori and shia counterparts indulge in maajlis\matam\ali tasbih all this things are intellectually eroding. A typical bori majlis of the aunties end with gossips and panchaat.
They dont even know the basics of Islam and only see ali, husain,etc(except muhammad pbuh!) as idols for worship.
You missed my word 'Ignorant'. Ignorant aunties can be found in any sect and knowledgeable old aunties can also be found in every sect. Your life experience seems to be restricted. You only seem to meet 'ignorant Bohri aunties' and 'knowledgeable Wahhabi aunties'.

Muslim First
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Re: Molana Aadam (a) - Dawoodi Bohra Perspective

#49

Unread post by Muslim First » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:22 am

You missed my word 'Ignorant'. Ignorant aunties can be found in any sect and knowledgeable old aunties can also be found in every sect. Your life experience seems to be restricted. You only seem to meet 'ignorant Bohri aunties' and 'knowledgeable Wahhabi aunties'.
Then what is purpose of making this point in first place!

aliabbas_aa
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Re: Molana Aadam (a) - Dawoodi Bohra Perspective

#50

Unread post by aliabbas_aa » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:41 am

Alams and panjas are not idols, just like the Holy Kaa'ba is not. Alams and panjas are a cultural manifestation of faith
tHEY Are i have seen most of them kissing them , putting garlands over it, sticking fruits over it and worshipping it. That too in mosque! thats the height of shirk akbar.

Hajr aswad was kissed by rasulallah hence we kiss them , no alams etc was kissed by rasulllah even the syedna has put a ban on alams and panjas deeming it as idols

sixfeetunder
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Re: Molana Aadam (a) - Dawoodi Bohra Perspective

#51

Unread post by sixfeetunder » Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:00 am

tHEY Are i have seen most of them kissing them , putting garlands over it, sticking fruits over it and worshipping it. That too in mosque! thats the height of shirk akbar.
No one worships it. Why do you make these blatant allegations? Do Muslims worship the kaaba when they prostrate in front of it?
Hajr aswad was kissed by rasulallah hence we kiss them , no alams etc was kissed by rasulllah even the syedna has put a ban on alams and panjas deeming it as idols
Prophet kissed it to show respect towards it and not to worship it. It means that kissing something does not mean one worships it. As I said, panjas and alams are a cultural manifestation. They are not idols. If a Shia says 'La Ilaaha il Allah', you cannot put this blame on him/her. No Shia worships these things. You kiss a Quran which is bound by a leather cover. So do you worship the leather cover?

Why do you put forth Syedna's fatwa when you don't believe in him? I don't know about Syedna's 'ban' but I know many Bohras who respect these symbols. Syedna also has apparently 'banned' Bohras from listening to Muharram vaaz of Ithna Asheri sect or reading any Islamic literature from any sect. These bans are placed so that Bohras do not 'stray' away from the community. So, to keep the Bohras away from the twelvers, he may have 'banned' them. Maybe religious Bohras on this forum can throw more light.

aliabbas_aa
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Re: Molana Aadam (a) - Dawoodi Bohra Perspective

#52

Unread post by aliabbas_aa » Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:06 am

The prophet pbuh nor ali did it hence we wont deviate from their example PERIOD

aliabbas_aa
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Re: Molana Aadam (a) - Dawoodi Bohra Perspective

#53

Unread post by aliabbas_aa » Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:10 am

Scholar Ibn al-Qayyim (rahimahullah) said: "He who compares the practice of the Messenger (salallahu alaihe wa-sallam) and his commands and prohibitions with regards to graves, and the practice of his Companions with the rituals that people practice today, he can see the two sides of comparison are too contradictory and opposed to one another that they can never be reconciled. The Messenger of Allah (salallahu alaihe wa-sallam) forbade performing Salaat while facing graves, but people today do so. And he forbade including graves in mosques, and people today construct mosques around them and call them places for ritual visitation in opposition to the houses of Allah. And he forbade lighting candles on graves, and people today do so, and assign properties as endowment for this particular purpose. And he forbade making tombs as places for ritual celebrations, and people do so just as they celebrate Eid or even more. He ordered leveling graves according to the following Hadeeth in which Ali said to Abul-Hayyaj al-Asadi: "Shall I charge you with a duty which the Prophet (salallahu alaihe wa-sallam) charged me with? Destroy every idol or statue and level down every raised grave." [Saheeh Muslim]

The Prophet (salallahu alaihe wa-sallam) also forbade plastering graves, sitting on them, or erecting structures on them, or to include it in a structure" [Saheeh Muslim]

Abu Thumamah Ibn Shufay reported: "We were with Fudalah Ibn Ubaid in Rhodes, when a man in our group died and Fudalah ordered that his grave be leveled with the ground, and said: 'I heard the Messenger of Allah (salallahu alaihe wa-sallam) commanding leveling graves.'"

And people today vehemently oppose these two traditions and raise graves above ground level like houses, and build domes above them. Ibn al-Qayyim went on to say: "Consider this great contradiction between what the Prophet (salallahu alaihe wa-sallam) legislated and intended in prohibiting the above mentioned practices, and what people of today legislate and intend."

There is no doubt that the wrong things and improper doings mentioned above are conducive to unlimited evil. Ibn al-Qayyim then enumerated those wrong doings saying: "What the Prophet (salallahu alaihe wa-sallam) allowed while visiting graves is to remember the Hereafter, supplicate Allah in favor of the dead people, and ask Allah to forgive them, and be merciful to them, and save them from punishment. In that case, the visitor would do a favor for himself and for the dead. But the polytheists of today, do the opposite thing, that is; supplicating the dead instead of supplicating Allah, asking them to fulfill their needs, grant them blessings, and aid them against their enemies. By doing so, they, in fact, wrong themselves and the dead too, by depriving him of what Allah has made legal of supplication in favor of the dead and asking Allah's mercy for them." [Ibn al-Qayyim, Ighathat al-Lahfan, vol.1, p.214, 215 and 217]

From the before-mentioned, it is clear that making offerings and sacrifices to dead people constitutes major Shirk, because they contradict the guidance of Muhammad (salallahu alaihe wa-sallam) with regards to graves, which prohibits erecting them, or building mosques on them. Since mosques, chambers and domes are constructed on graves, ignorant people think that the entombed people can extend benefit and cause harm, offer relief to those who are seeking it, and fulfill the needs of those who resign to them. Consequently, they offer them sacrificial animals and make vows to them, to the point that they are turned into idols, worshipped to the exclusion of Allah.

The Prophet (salallahu alaihe wa-sallam) said: "O Allah! Let not my grave be turned into a worshipped idol." [Malik and Ahmed]

The Prophet (salallahu alaihe wa-sallam) made such supplication to Allah knowing, perhaps that a thing of this nature will take place in other than his own grave, which is happening in many Muslim countries.

As for his grave, Allah has guarded it from turning into an idol, as a result of the blessing of his Du'aa or supplication. Although some ignorant superstitious people commit some improper practices in his Masjid, but they cannot reach his grave because his grave is in his house, not in the Masjid, and surrounded by walls, as scholar Ibn al-Qayyim described in his poem in which he said:

"And the Rubb of the worlds has responded to his supplication and surround it with three walls.

sixfeetunder
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Re: Molana Aadam (a) - Dawoodi Bohra Perspective

#54

Unread post by sixfeetunder » Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:23 am

aliabbas_aa wrote:The prophet pbuh nor ali did it hence we wont deviate from their example PERIOD
This is like saying: Prophet and Ali never traveled by aeroplanes and hence we will not deviate from their example. Period.

sixfeetunder
Posts: 433
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Re: Molana Aadam (a) - Dawoodi Bohra Perspective

#55

Unread post by sixfeetunder » Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:28 am

And why do you keep pasting long wahhabi fatwas? Similar fatwas can be found on mainstream Sunni and Shia sites, where your grave-busting ideology has been busted with references from Quran and Sunnah.

sixfeetunder
Posts: 433
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Re: Molana Aadam (a) - Dawoodi Bohra Perspective

#56

Unread post by sixfeetunder » Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:55 am

The Messenger of Allah (salallahu alaihe wa-sallam) forbade performing Salaat while facing graves, but people today do so.
Where is the grave of Bibi Hajar? Please never perform Hajj or Umrah, you may just commit Shirk!

aliabbas_aa
Posts: 320
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:21 am

Re: Molana Aadam (a) - Dawoodi Bohra Perspective

#57

Unread post by aliabbas_aa » Wed Jul 18, 2012 12:44 pm

sixfeetunder wrote:
The Messenger of Allah (salallahu alaihe wa-sallam) forbade performing Salaat while facing graves, but people today do so.
Where is the grave of Bibi Hajar? Please never perform Hajj or Umrah, you may just commit Shirk!
Why you just want to transgress and deny that too with shamefully silly arguments?
salat facing graves means facing in the vicinity of the graves!

And can you furnish proof from authentic sunnah about the whereabouts of haz Hajr's graves?

profastian
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Re: Molana Aadam (a) - Dawoodi Bohra Perspective

#58

Unread post by profastian » Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:41 am

aliabbas_aa wrote:
Alams and panjas are not idols, just like the Holy Kaa'ba is not. Alams and panjas are a cultural manifestation of faith
tHEY Are i have seen most of them kissing them , putting garlands over it, sticking fruits over it and worshipping it. That too in mosque! thats the height of shirk akbar.

Hajr aswad was kissed by rasulallah hence we kiss them , no alams etc was kissed by rasulllah even the syedna has put a ban on alams and panjas deeming it as idols
So that makes rasulallah a mushrik(naoozobillah) right?

aliabbas_aa
Posts: 320
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:21 am

Re: Molana Aadam (a) - Dawoodi Bohra Perspective

#59

Unread post by aliabbas_aa » Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:22 am

Al-Bukhârî reports that ‘Umar – Allâh be pleased with him – came to the Black Stone (performing tawâf, circumambulation), kissed it, and said, “I know that you are a stone, you do not cause benefit or harm; and if it were not that I had seen Allâh’s Messenger – peace and blessings of Allâh be upon him – kiss you, I would never have kissed you.”

Al-Bukhârî, Al-Sahîh, Chapter on what has been said about the Black Stone.

Points to note

· The illustrious Companion and Caliph ‘Umar reminded us in this narration of the pure belief that benefit and harm are not caused by created objects and thus should not be sought from them. Only Allâh has control over these things.

· We are reminded that acts of worship are taken from Allâh’s Messenger, and a person is not supposed to make up his own way of worship, he must follow the manner of worship that the Prophet taught and practiced.

· We also learn that once an action is confirmed in the Sunnah, the believer submits and complies and practices it because it is confirmed that Allâh’s Messenger did it, even if we don’t know the wisdom behind it.

· This narration is also an example of how a responsible person tries to clarify and do away with any misunderstandings that people may have about matters of faith. The people had recently left their unbelief and polytheism, so ‘Umar wanted to make it clear that kissing the Black Stone is by no means done as an act of devotion to it, as people used to do with their stone idols.

Adapted from Ibn Hajr, Fath Al-Bârî, and other hadîth commentaries.

Source: http://www.sayingsofthesalaf.net/index. ... ack-stone/

profastian
Posts: 1314
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:00 am

Re: Molana Aadam (a) - Dawoodi Bohra Perspective

#60

Unread post by profastian » Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:41 am

aliabbas_aa wrote:Al-Bukhârî reports that ‘Umar – Allâh be pleased with him – came to the Black Stone (performing tawâf, circumambulation), kissed it, and said, “I know that you are a stone, you do not cause benefit or harm; and if it were not that I had seen Allâh’s Messenger – peace and blessings of Allâh be upon him – kiss you, I would never have kissed you.”

Al-Bukhârî, Al-Sahîh, Chapter on what has been said about the Black Stone.

Points to note

· The illustrious Companion and Caliph ‘Umar reminded us in this narration of the pure belief that benefit and harm are not caused by created objects and thus should not be sought from them. Only Allâh has control over these things.

· We are reminded that acts of worship are taken from Allâh’s Messenger, and a person is not supposed to make up his own way of worship, he must follow the manner of worship that the Prophet taught and practiced.

· We also learn that once an action is confirmed in the Sunnah, the believer submits and complies and practices it because it is confirmed that Allâh’s Messenger did it, even if we don’t know the wisdom behind it.

· This narration is also an example of how a responsible person tries to clarify and do away with any misunderstandings that people may have about matters of faith. The people had recently left their unbelief and polytheism, so ‘Umar wanted to make it clear that kissing the Black Stone is by no means done as an act of devotion to it, as people used to do with their stone idols.

Adapted from Ibn Hajr, Fath Al-Bârî, and other hadîth commentaries.

Source: http://www.sayingsofthesalaf.net/index. ... ack-stone/
So any reason why the Prophet kissed it?