Shias and Sunnis

Given modern distractions, the need to understand Islam better has never been more urgent. Through this forum we can share ideas and hopefully promote the true spirit of Islam which calls for peace, justice, tolerance, inclusiveness and diversity.
Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Relation of 1, 2, 3 with Ahle bait

#241

Unread post by Muslim First » Sun Jun 29, 2014 11:35 am

james wrote:
anajmi wrote: He could've given instructions to Hussain on how to defeat Yazid and get victory which would've actually prevented the shia sunni split and the bloodshed that we see today!!
If only the hypocrites had not gathered in Saqifa and cared about the burial of Prophet Mohammed SAW. If only the hypocrites had adhered to the words of Prophet SAW and not returned from the expedition of Usama bin Zayd out of their own accord.If only the hypocrites had not usurped the rights of the successor Commander of the Faithful Imam Ali ibn Abi Talib AS. If only the hypocrites had not angered the Leader of Women in Paradise Fatema AS.

Then the shia-sunni split would be non existent today.
James must read this
Saqifah, Sunni view
http://web.archive.org/web/200904271516 ... ry/saqifah

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Relation of 1, 2, 3 with Ahle bait

#242

Unread post by Muslim First » Sun Jun 29, 2014 11:38 am

If Imam Hussain had to die to save Islam, then that would mean that if he had actually won the war and become khalifa, Islam would not have survived. correct?

Good question
What is answer, James and Co.?

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Shias and Sunnis

#243

Unread post by Muslim First » Sun Jun 29, 2014 1:28 pm

javedhjuma
As an Ismaili,follower of a Present Imam, I do not question anything about his life or his family‘s life , or his private life because I believe, whatever happens in his life is pre-ordained by Allah SWT, just the way the Prophets’lives were and we, as Muslims never question them.
Murshid who claims to be Mazahr of Allah, and whose Murdis pray to him day and night should live examplanary life. His personal life is in mess.

Preordained by Allah?
Lame excuse. As infallible Devine person he should have known he is going to divorce 2, his children get divorced too. His father is going to die with un married women in car accident etc. etc.
Tell me how many wives prophet SAW divorced?

Btw here is where "Nyadj" is mentioned.
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... =4537#4537

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Shias and Sunnis

#244

Unread post by Muslim First » Sun Jun 29, 2014 1:30 pm

King of SA is not leader of any Islamic Firqa

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Shias and Sunnis

#245

Unread post by Muslim First » Sun Jun 29, 2014 1:40 pm

JavedhJuma wrote:Brother Ghulam, You always come out with the right stuff at the right moment.

I do not like to attack any faith, but when my faith or my Imam are challenged, I cannot sit idle.

I have a lot of Shia and Sunni friends but they never talk about religion because each one is secured in his belief. It is like when people like MF, who are insecure, they start attacking others.

The reason why all religions teach peace but people do not live in peace, because people like MF, have holier and thou attitude. There will never be peace in Islam as long as people like MF and ISIS(L) exist. It looks like Qayamat is near.

I have not finished with him. I will show him through the history of Islam what Prophets did and are still accepted as Prophets.

Thanks for the upper again.
Javedhjuma Bhai
You will like this
I do not like this
http://youtu.be/ijSgdrhvfDs
And this
http://youtu.be/cHT_nYXuL5M
And many more

james
Posts: 598
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 am

Re: Relation of 1, 2, 3 with Ahle bait

#246

Unread post by james » Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:45 am

anajmi wrote:One simple question and not one single jamea educated abde has the answer. This simple question is enough to shake the cornerstone of your illogical faith. This question is so good, that I am going to ask it again. Let us see if any of you can actually answer it.

If Imam Hussain had to die to save Islam, then that would mean that if he had actually won the war and become khalifa, Islam would not have survived. correct?
Get off your high horse.The first time your question was ignored was due to your obnoxiousness regarding thanking the accursed Yazid La.You never debate along the counter arguments but bring on juvenile straw man every now and then.

Where Prophet Mohammed SAW or a part of it (Husain AS ) is concerned,there are no two outcomes but there is always Victory! Victory! Victory!Remember this always.For Husain AS is a Leader of Youth of Paradise.For he is from Mohammed Mustafa SAW and the Prophet SAW is from him. If Allah Ta'ala had willed that the sword of Imam Husain AS beheads Yazid La,Islam would be grateful for it as it was grateful for Husain AS becoming a martyr for it's sake.There are no two ways about it.For Husain AS is part of People of the Cloak.Neither he has ever seen/tasted Defeat,nor he ever will.

anajmi
Posts: 13508
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Relation of 1, 2, 3 with Ahle bait

#247

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:51 am

So if Islam wasn't in danger one way or another, then Hussain's death wasn't actually responsible for saving it.

silvertongue
Posts: 578
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:34 am

Re: Relation of 1, 2, 3 with Ahle bait

#248

Unread post by silvertongue » Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:33 am

Well Anajmi you are thinking of total opposite here. Its like what if Anajmi wasnt born and we didnt had to answer every useless question he posts. God I wish it were true.. Lolz.. kidding..

silvertongue
Posts: 578
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:34 am

Re: Relation of 1, 2, 3 with Ahle bait

#249

Unread post by silvertongue » Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:46 am

So if Islam wasn't in danger one way or another, then Hussain's death wasn't actually responsible for saving it.
If you dont believe in any of it, fine its upto you. But i do hope you atleast believe in the Ayats of Quran which clearly indicates the description of the five holy personalities, which includes Imam Hussain a.s.

anajmi
Posts: 13508
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Relation of 1, 2, 3 with Ahle bait

#250

Unread post by anajmi » Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:10 am

When I normally refer to an ayah, I try to post the location of the ayah. Most of the times, I even post the ayah itself. Would you mind doing the same? Can you give the surah name and ayah number of the ayahs you are referring to?

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Relation of 1, 2, 3 with Ahle bait

#251

Unread post by Muslim First » Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:09 pm

anajmi wrote:When I normally refer to an ayah, I try to post the location of the ayah. Most of the times, I even post the ayah itself. Would you mind doing the same? Can you give the surah name and ayah number of the ayahs you are referring to?
O boy
This will tongue tie Silvertongue

silvertongue
Posts: 578
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:34 am

Re: Relation of 1, 2, 3 with Ahle bait

#252

Unread post by silvertongue » Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:26 am

When I normally refer to an ayah, I try to post the location of the ayah. Most of the times, I even post the ayah itself. Would you mind doing the same? Can you give the surah name and ayah number of the ayahs you are referring to?
Here are the Ayats that describe the presence of Ahlul Bayt. And considering the fact that you are a well learned person, I hope you know that the Wives of the prophet are not counted as Ahlul Bayt.

Here are the Ayats that describe the presence of Ahlul Bayt. And considering the fact that you are a well learned person, I hope you know that the Wives of the prophet are not counted as Ahlul Bayt. But still ill give you a Hadith here in that context:

Narrated Aisha:
One day the Prophet (S) came out afternoon wearing a black cloak (upper garment or gown; long coat), then al-Hasan Ibn ‘Ali came and the Prophet accommodated him under the cloak, then al-Husayn came and entered the cloak, then Fatimah came and the Prophet entered her under the cloak, then ‘Ali came and the Prophet entered him to the cloak as well. Then the Prophet recited: "Verily Allah intends to keep off from you every kind of uncleanness O’ People of the House (Ahlul-Bayt), and purify you a perfect purification (the last sentence of Verse 33:33)."
• Sahih Muslim, Chapter of virtues of companions, section of the virtues of the Ahlul-Bayt of the Prophet (S), 1980 Edition Pub. in Saudi Arabia, Arabic version, v4, p1883, Tradition #61.
The verse
"Verily Allah intends to ... (33:33)"
was revealed to the Prophet (S) in the house of Umm Salama. Upon that, the Prophet gathered Fatimah, al-Hasan, and al-Husayn, and covered them with a cloak, and he also covered ‘Ali who was behind him. Then the Prophet said: "O’ Allah! These are the Members of my House (Ahlul-Bayt). Keep them away from every impurity and purify them with a perfect purification.”Umm Salama (the wife of Prophet) asked: "Am I also included among them O Apostle of Allah?”the Prophet replied: "You remain in your position and you are toward a good ending."
Sahih al-Tirmidhi, v5, pp 351,663


Coming to the Ayats now, Here they are.

"Verily Allah intends to keep off from you every kind of uncleanness O’ People of the House (Ahlul-Bayt), and purify you with a perfect purification". (Qur’an, the last sentence of Verse 33:33)

Ayat of Mubahala:

But whoever disputes with you in this matter after what has come to you of knowledge, then say: Come let us call our sons and your sons, and our women and your women, and our selves and your selves; then let us be earnest in prayer and invoke the curse of Allah upon the liars. (Qur’an 3:61).

...And when the verse 3:61 was revealed, the Prophet called ‘Ali, Fatimah, al-Hasan, and al-Husayn. Then the Prophet said: "O Lord! These are my family members (Ahli)."

• Sahih Muslim, Chapter of virtues of companions, section of virtues of ‘Ali, 1980 Edition Pub. in Saudi Arabia, Arabic version, v4, p1871, the end of tradition #32.

• Sahih al-Tirmidhi, v5, p654

Someday (after his last pilgrimage) the Messenger of Allah (S) stood to give us a speech beside a pond which is known as Khum (Ghadir Khum) which is located between Mecca and Medina. Then he praised Allah and reminded Him, and then said: "O’ people! Behold! It seems the time approached when I shall be called away (by Allah) and I shall answer that call. Behold! I am leaving for you two precious things. First of them is the book of Allah in which there is light and guidance...The other one is my Ahlul-Bayt. I remind you in the name of Allah about my Ahlul-Bayt. I remind you in the name of Allah about my Ahlul-Bayt. I remind you in the name of Allah about my Ahlul-Bayt. (three times)."

• Sahih Muslim, Chapter of the virtues of the companions, section of the virtues of ‘Ali, 1980 Edition Pub. in Saudi Arabia, Arabic version, v 4, p1873, Tradition #36.

These are some of them to make you think on your side, if you really care so.. And those so called beloved Wives here is a tradition from Umar Al Khattab:

Narrated Umar:

The wives of the Prophet out of their jealousy, backed each other against the Prophet, so I said to them, "It may be, if he divorced you all, that Allah will give him, instead of you wives better than you.”So this Verse (66.5) was revealed.

Sahih Bukhari Hadith: 6.436

Jazakallah

silvertongue
Posts: 578
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:34 am

Re: Relation of 1, 2, 3 with Ahle bait

#253

Unread post by silvertongue » Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:36 am

Its the same thing which is there in the books since 1400 years. But those who believe they do. I bet you would hardly care for these. And I dont even hope so. But you asked so I gave it to you.

qutbudin
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:55 am

Re: Who does the Quran address as Ahlebayt and Why did the p

#254

Unread post by qutbudin » Wed Jul 02, 2014 3:10 am

There are western academics who do study these Islamic history form a highly unaligned non sectarian point of view

james
Posts: 598
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 am

Re: Relation of 1, 2, 3 with Ahle bait

#255

Unread post by james » Wed Jul 02, 2014 6:37 am

anajmi wrote:So if Islam wasn't in danger one way or another, then Hussain's death wasn't actually responsible for saving it.
Oh,Islam needed saving. It needed saving on the day of Khaybar,on the day of Ohud,on the day of Jamal,on the day of Siffin,on the day of Ashura.Wherever you see,your gaze will always fixate on the People of the Cloak and their services to Islam.In life,in death,every breath of their life was for Islam.

silvertongue
Posts: 578
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:34 am

Re: Relation of 1, 2, 3 with Ahle bait

#256

Unread post by silvertongue » Wed Jul 02, 2014 6:58 am

A simple quote from the Lab Mubarak of Rasulallah s.a.w.w might conclude here
"Islam did not rise except through Ali's sword and Khadijah's wealth,"

qutbudin
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:55 am

Re: Who does the Quran address as Ahlebayt and Why did the p

#257

Unread post by qutbudin » Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:09 am

@silvertounge this probably answers it.

silvertongue
Posts: 578
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:34 am

Re: Relation of 1, 2, 3 with Ahle bait

#258

Unread post by silvertongue » Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:14 am

I feel pity for those who say WE FOLLOW RASULALLAH and his Sunnah. The biggest Sunnah is to follow the Quran and Ahlul Bayt a.s. after Rasulallah a.s. Now they stand nowhere. No matter what they believe or do its worth nothing. You cannot simply save youself by saying we follow them. It doesnt end there. You need to follow what they said and obey them. Remember how Allah swt orders humanity to Obey the Messenger every now and then in the Quran. If you guys think you are knowledgable enough then try analyzing these stuffs rather than pointing fingers at others... :-)

anajmi
Posts: 13508
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Shias and Sunnis

#259

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:38 am

Ayah 33:33 refers to the wives of the prophet (saw). This has been discussed dozens of times on this forum. The wives were chosen by Allah and then the prophet (saw) added the family of Ali with the cloak. If the prophet (saw) were to exclude the wives, he would be going directly against the command of Allah. He didn't have to include them in the cloak because they were already a part of the house of the prophet (saw).

As far as 3:61 is concerned, it is an ayah involved with invoking Allah's curse upon the liar. The prophet (saw) put at stake what would be considered most valuable to him. It requires him to put his sons at stake. He couldn't replace his sons with his wives now could he? This is similar to the sacrifice Ibrahim (as) was asked to perform. He wasn't asked to sacrifice his wife. He was asked to sacrifice his son. Fortunately, we didn't end up with a clan shouting Ya Ismail Ya Ismail !!
Oh,Islam needed saving. It needed saving on the day of Khaybar,on the day of Ohud,on the day of Jamal,on the day of Siffin,on the day of Ashura.
Actually it doesn't. If you look at the wars you have quoted, Islam has survived victories and defeats. Some wars made people muslims and others turned them into idol worshippers.

anajmi
Posts: 13508
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Shias and Sunnis

#260

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:41 am

I feel pity for those who say WE FOLLOW RASULALLAH and his Sunnah.
Your pity is wasted. You should pity those who believe that Ali is Awwal and Akhir and those who believe that SMS is the God of the Earth. These people are idol worshippers and Allah says in the Quran,

وَإِذْ قَالَ لُقْمَانُ لِابْنِهِ وَهُوَ يَعِظُهُ يَا بُنَيَّ لَا تُشْرِكْ بِاللَّهِ إِنَّ الشِّرْكَ لَظُلْمٌ عَظِيمٌ

Shirk is an Azeem Zulm.

silvertongue
Posts: 578
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:34 am

Re: Shias and Sunnis

#261

Unread post by silvertongue » Thu Jul 03, 2014 1:20 am

@anajmi... To make sure that wives are not included in the Ahlul Bayt here is an authentic Hadith which states clearly. As I understand you are a guy who atleast believes in referenced proofs so here it goes.
Ayah 33:33 refers to the wives of the prophet (saw). This has been discussed dozens of times on this forum. The wives were chosen by Allah and then the prophet (saw) added the family of Ali with the cloak. If the prophet (saw) were to exclude the wives, he would be going directly against the command of Allah. He didn't have to include them in the cloak because they were already a part of the house of the prophet (saw).
Narrated Yazid Ibn Hayyan:

We went to Zaid Ibn Arqam and said to him: You have found goodness (for you had the honor) to live in the company of the Prophet (S) and offered prayer behind him, and the rest of the Hadith is the same (as 3 traditions before) but the Prophet said: "Behold, for I am leaving amongst you two weighty things, one of them is the Book of Allah...", and in this (Hadith) these words are also found: We said: "Who are his Ahlul-Bayt (that the Prophet was referring to)? Are they his wives?”

Thereupon Zaid said: "No, by Allah! A woman lives with a man (as his wife) for a while; he then divorces her and she goes back to her parents and her people. The Ahlul-Bayt of the Prophet are his lineage and his descendants (those who come from his blood) for whom the acceptance of charity (Sadaqah) is prohibited."

Reference:

• Sahih Muslim, Chapter of virtues of companions, section of the virtues of ‘Ali, 1980 Edition Pub. in Saudi Arabia, Arabic version, v4, p1874, Tradition #37

Zaid Ibn Arqam said: I have grown old and have forgotten some of the things which I remembered in connection with Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him). So accept whatever I narrate to you, and which I do not narrate do not compel me to do that. He then said: One day, Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) stood up to deliver sermon at a watering place known as Khum (Ghadir Khum) which is situated between Mecca and Medina.

He praised Allah, Extolled Him and delivered the sermon and exhorted (us) and said: "Now to our purpose, O people, I am a human being. I am about to receive a messenger (the angel of death) from my Lord and I shall answer that call (would bid good-bye to you). But I am leaving among you two weighty things: the one being the Book of Allah... The second are the members of my household (Ahlul-Bayt). By Allah I remind you (of your duties) to the Members of my House (saying three times)."

He (Husayn Ibn Sabra) said to Zaid: Who are the members of his household? Aren’t his wives the members of his family? Thereupon Zaid said: His wives are among Ahlul-Bayt but here Ahlul-Bayt are those for whom acceptance of Zakat is forbidden. And he said: Who are they? Thereupon he said: ‘Ali and the offspring of ‘Ali; Aqil and the offspring of Aqil, and the offspring of Ja’far and the offspring of Abbas.

Reference:

• Sahih Muslim, Chapter of the virtues of companions, section of the virtues of ‘Ali, 1980 Edition Pub. in Saudi Arabia, Arabic version, v4, p1873, Tradition #36.

silvertongue
Posts: 578
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:34 am

Re: Shias and Sunnis

#262

Unread post by silvertongue » Thu Jul 03, 2014 1:39 am

You should pity those who believe that Ali is Awwal and Akhir and those who believe that SMS is the God of the Earth.
For Ali a.s I would give my life, who wouldnt love a person whom Rasulallah used to love the most. He gave his beloved daughter in marriage to him. Ali's sons were considered as his OWN sons by Rasulallah a.s. and without Ali a.s. there would have been no victories in the battle which were fought. Only a KAAFIR would hate him. No one considers Ali a.s as a GOD except for KAafirs thats for sure. Regarding Awwal and Aakhir Allah swt knows the best of it. And regarding Muffi being GOD on earth. well, that makes me seriously laugh.... :D :D

anajmi
Posts: 13508
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Shias and Sunnis

#263

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:27 am

Narrated Yazid Ibn Hayyan:
Instead of reading hadith, read the Quran. Any hadith that goes against the Quran is to be rejected.
Regarding Awwal and Aakhir Allah swt knows the best of it.
Allahs tells us in the Quran about it. If only you had bothered to read it!! Anyone who believes that Ali is Awwal o Akhir is a mushrik and needs your pity.

JavedhJuma
Posts: 403
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:47 pm

Re: Relation of 1, 2, 3 with Ahle bait

#264

Unread post by JavedhJuma » Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:34 pm

onlyprivate wrote:i have following doubts ;
1) why rasolallah saw married is two daughter to Usman while we have been told that he is not good muslimmmmmm !!!!!!
2) why rasolallah saw got married with Abubakar's daughter ? while he is not good muslimmmm!!!!!!!
3) why rasolallah saw got married with Umar's daughter ? while he is not good muslimmmm!!!!!!!

4) why maulan ali married his daughter (Umm Kulthoom) to Umar (controversial issue) ? while he is not good muslimmmm!!!!!!!
from above :
1) Rasulallah saw and ali do not know about these people because if they know they should not have done this surely
otherwide 2) these people are good muslims to get relation with Rasulallah saw and maulana ali.

Both can not be true !!!!!!!!!
I agree both were good Muslims, however, Rasullah's daughter was also married to a Kafir. I say let Allah SWT be the Judge

chocoman
Posts: 79
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:37 am

Re: Shias and Sunnis

#265

Unread post by chocoman » Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:58 pm

Arent you guys sick of cliches and debating Salafis?!?!

JavedhJuma
Posts: 403
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:47 pm

Re: Shias and Sunnis

#266

Unread post by JavedhJuma » Thu Jul 03, 2014 11:13 pm

Murshid who claims to be Mazahr of Allah, and whose Murdis pray to him day and night should live examplanary life. His personal life is in mess.

Preordained by Allah?

Lame excuse. As infallible Devine person he should have known he is going to divorce 2, his children get divorced too. His father is going to die with un married women in car accident etc. etc.

Tell me how many wives prophet SAW divorced?
MF,

With all due respect to you, I am compelled to say that your intelligence level is so low that it is not even worth discussing this further but I shall, nevertheless, continue for the sake of the participants on this forum, especially the Ismailis..

It seems you have a very low IQ and low memory that you rely on Mehrullah and Mir Bhose, the two confessed liars, yet you persist in showing here what they wrote. Then you say it was from wikipedia. Show me the link.
I shall be very patient and prove you wrong at every corner and also prove you are nothing but a fitnati and no amount of Qur’an or ahadith I quote here, you will still believe what you want to believe, because truth hurts you.

First show me the difference between exemplary life and personal life. Big difference. You can never be a lawyer because you do not have a logical explanation of anything and depend on hearsay.

I see him flying from one country to the other to improve the lives of the people; to receive awards from governments for appreciation of his work in the world; improving the image of Islam only with the likes of you coming out to distort Islam by your terrorist activities; giving lectures to the graduates of high profile colleges and universities; he travels to Afghanistan without fear of Talibans, to see how his schools and hospitals are faring while your Aboos are busy travelling to Middle East in search of young brides from refugee camps.

Government leaders go to him for advice and he is received world over like a Statesman, even better at times. His flag is flying around the world and wherever he goes.

I do not see his life in a mess. His children are working with him to improve the lives of the people around the world and they are not the only ones who are getting divorces. At least wives are let off with good money, from their personal money,and in the case of the ex-wives of the Imam as you can see most of the money is well spent on poor people around the world. Check it out. Do your homework before opening your mouth!

Our Murshid, i.e. Imam, is the Mazhar of Allah SWT. You are an amateur so I cannot quote the Qur’an to you, but I definitely could have proven to you why he is Mazhar of Allah.

Nevertheless, if you do not believe him to be so, that is your prerogative. I am not going to convince you otherwise. You believe what you want to but as a Muslim, kindly respect others beliefs. That is true Islam.

You know nothing about Ismailism otherwise you would not be making such immature remarks as “you pray to him day and night”.

You have a habit of making accusations but never have anything to back them up.

For Instance, You said Hazarat Omar RA congratulated Mowla Ali AS at Ghadeer. But you did not know or were reluctant to say why? All along you were even denying the event at Ghadeer and just when you admitted it happened you stuck your foot in your mouth!

2. You stated “we recite shirk infested du’a”. When I asked you to show me where, you had no response.

You make accusations and disappear only to come back with more filth.

3. Now you are saying that we pray to our Imam day and night. We do not pray to him day and night but we definitely use him as our Wasila , as stated in the Qur’an: Sura V, ayah 35: O ye who believe! Do your duty to God, seek the means of approach unto Him, and strive with might and main in His cause, that you may prosper. Now you might call this Taqwa, so be it.

And also, just the way the Prophet SAW was told in the Qur’an to pray on behalf of his people: Sura IV: 64. “ We sent not an Apostle but to be obeyed, in accordance with the Will of God. It they had only, when they were unjust to themselves come unto thee and asked God’s forgiveness, and the Apostle had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found God indeed oft-returning, Most Merciful.

Tell me why, Allah SWT asked people to go through the Prophet SAW.

According to Bukhari ahadith, people went to Hazarat Omar RA to pray for rain! I am sure you have seen it, if not, ask. Ask. I shall be glad to provide you with it.

If Allah SWT was sufficient to forgive sins then why did he ask us to go through the Prophet SAW?

Who do you go through now?




To be continued....

JavedhJuma
Posts: 403
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:47 pm

Re: Shias and Sunnis

#267

Unread post by JavedhJuma » Thu Jul 03, 2014 11:22 pm

Btw here is where "Nyadj" is mentioned.

http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... =4537#4537
I went to the site and could not find a piece wherein my Imam said Nyadj. Please give me the piece. All I see are some amateurs like you discussing the topic on Nyaz and there is no sound bite of my Imam mispronouncing Nyaz. Show me the sound bite not what people are saying. Some are themselves saying Niyaj, Abe Safa; Abe Shifa, etc. But not my Imam. You have a habit of distorting facts, and that too in Holy month of Ramadhan.

One thing is sure your Allah Mehrullah has left you as imam to misguide the guided and it does not seem to be working.

Everyday, more and more non-Ismaili Muslims are converting to Ismailism although we do not encourage them and on the contrary discourage them because Imam says all Muslims, Christians, Jews, etc. are believers and they believe in Allah SWT.

 


To be continued

JavedhJuma
Posts: 403
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:47 pm

Re: Shias and Sunnis

#268

Unread post by JavedhJuma » Thu Jul 03, 2014 11:29 pm

Javedhjuma Bhai
You will like this
I do not like this
http://youtu.be/ijSgdrhvfDs
And this
http://youtu.be/cHT_nYXuL5M
And many more
You know MF, I have heard of this guy and have listened to him once but has he ever been able to change one Ismaili Muslim? He barks like a dog and plays like a pig in his own filth. He does not allow the other person to respond. Sounds like you. It is a shame that as a Muslim you take pleasure in this.

I am sorry I listened to this gutter mouth because my mother always said:

Par ninda jagat ku pyari,
sir, hath, pav dozkeh jayse.

Everybody loves to gossip, but gossipers' head, arms, legs, etc. will go to hell.

So continue with your geebat and listen to the gutter mouth. I am even surprised that Admin allowed this. Nevertheless, enjoy it and prepare your Akhirat.

Being a man of no substance, stop running here and there to plagiarize other’s material

Salaams and peace
More answers coming to you.

Umreti
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 1:05 pm

Re: Shias and Sunnis

#269

Unread post by Umreti » Thu Jul 03, 2014 11:46 pm

@silvertonge that hadith says about zakat only but in general ahlebayt includes wives:


Quran explicitly mentions the wives of the prophet pbuh as Ahlebayt, when the verse below was revealed then this caused the prophet pbuh to pray for the hasnain in cloak to be also included in the ahle bayt as no verse was revealed explicitly addressing them.As related in some traditions that the Holy Prophet did not cover Hadrat 'A'ishah and Hadrat Umm Salamah under the sheet of cloth which he put on the four members of his family, does not mean that he had excluded those ladies from his "household." But it means that the wives were already included in ahl al-bait, because the Qur'an, in fact, had addressed them as ahl al-bait. The Holy Prophet, however, thought that the apparent words of the Qur'an might cause somebody the misunderstanding about these members that they were excluded from the ahl al-bait. Therefore, he felt the need for clarification in their case and not in the case of his wives.
http://quran.com/33/30
O wives of the Prophet, whoever of you should commit a clear immorality - for her the punishment would be doubled two fold, and ever is that, for Allah, easy. (30)
And whoever of you devoutly obeys Allah and His Messenger and does righteousness - We will give her her reward twice; and We have prepared for her a noble provision. (31) O wives of the Prophet, you are not like anyone among women. If you fear Allah, then do not be soft in speech [to men], lest he in whose heart is disease should covet, but speak with appropriate speech. (32) And abide in your houses and do not display yourselves as [was] the display of the former times of ignorance. And establish prayer and give zakah and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah intends only to remove from you the impurity [of sin], O people of the [Prophet's] household(Ahlebayt), and to purify you with [extensive] purification. (33)
“The context in which this verse occurs makes it manifest that the word ahl al-bait (people of the house) here implies the wives of the Holy Prophet (upon whom be Allah's peace), because the address begins with: "O wives of the Prophet," and they are the addressees in the whole discourse preceding it as well as following it. Moreover, the word ahl al-bait in Arabic is used precisely in the sense in which the word "household" is used in English, which includes both a man's wife and children. No one would exclude the wife from the "household." The Qur'an itself has used this word at two other places besides this, and at both the wife is included in its sense, rather as the most important member of the family. In Surah Hud, when the angels give the Prophet Abraham the good news of the birth of a son, his wife exclaims: "Shall I bear a child now when I have grown too old, and this husband of mine has also become old?" The angels say: What! Are you surprised at Allah's decree, O people of Abraham's household? Allah's mercy and blessings are upon you." In Surah Al-Qasas, when the Prophet Moses reaches the Pharaoh's house as a suckling, and the Pharaoh's wife is in search of a suitable nurse for the child, the Prophet Moses' sister says, "Shall I tell you of a household whose people will bring him up for you and look after him well?" Thus, the Arabic idiom and the usage of the Qur'an and the context of this verse, 'all point clearly to the fact that the Holy Prophet's wives as well as his children are included in his ahl al-bait; rather the more correct thing is that the verse is actually addressed to the wives and the children become included in the household only because of the sense of the word. That is why according to lbn 'Abbas and 'Urwah bin Zubair and `Ikrimah, the word ahl al-bait in this verse implies the wives of the Holy Prophet.
But if somebody says that the word ahl al-bait has been used only for the wives and none else can be included in it, it will also be wrong. Not only this that the word "household" includes all the members of a man's family, but the Holy Prophet has himself explained that this includes even himself. According to Ibn Abi Hatim, once when Hadrat `A'ishah was asked about Hadrat `Ali, she said, Do you ask me about the person who was among the most loved ones of the Holy Prophet and whose wife was the Holy Prophet's daughter and most beloved to him?" Then she related the event when the Holy Prophet had called Hadrat 'Ali and Fatimah and Hasan and Husain (may Allah be pleased with them all) and covered them all with a sheet of cloth and prayed: "O Allah, these are my household, remove uncleanness from them and make them pure." Hadrat 'A'ishah says, "I said: I also am included among your household (i.e. I may also be covered under the sheet and prayed for).” Thereupon the Holy Prophet replied" You stay out: you, of course, are already included." A great many Ahadith bearing on this subject have been related by traditionalists like Muslim, Tirmidhi, Ahmad, Ibn Jarir, Hakim, Baihaqi, etc. on the authority of Abu Said Khudri, Hadrat 'A'ishah, Hadrat Anas, Hadrat Umm Salamah, Hadrat Wathilah bin Aqsa' and some other Companions, which show that the Holy Prophet declared Hadrat 'AIi and Fatimah and their two sons as his ahl al-bait. Therefore, the view of those who exclude them from the ahl al-bait is not correct.
Similarly the view of those people also is not correct, who, on the basis of the above-cited Ahadith, regard the wives of the Holy Prophet as excluded from his ahl al-bait. In the first place, anything which has been clearly stated in the Quran cannot be contradicted on the basis of a Hadith. Secondly, these Ahadith also do not have the meaning that is put on them. As related in some traditions that the Holy Prophet did not cover Hadrat 'A'ishah and Hadrat Umm Salamah under the sheet of cloth which he put on the four members of his family, does not mean that he had excluded those ladies from his "household." But it means that the wives were already included in ahl al-bait, because the Qur'an, in fact, had addressed them as ahl al-bait. The Holy Prophet, however, thought that the apparent words of the Qur'an might cause somebody the misunderstanding about these members that they were excluded from the ahl al-bait. Therefore, he felt the need for clarification in their case and not in the case of his wives.
A section of the people have not only misconstrued this verse to the extent that they have made the word ahl al-bait exclusively applicable to Hadrat `AIi and Fatimah and their children to the exclusion of the holy wives, but have gone even further and concluded wrongly from its words "Allah only intends to remove uncleanliness from you and purify you completely", that Hadrat 'Ali and Fatimah and their children are infallible like the Prophets of Allah. They say that "uncleanliness" implies error and sin, and, as Allah says, these ahl al-bait have been purified of this, whereas the words of the verse do not say that uncleanliness has been removed from them and they have been purified. But the words are to the effect: "Allah intends to remove uncleanliness from you and purify you completely. " The context also does not tell that the object here is to mention the virtues and excellences of the Holy Prophet's household. On the contrary, they have been advised here what they should do and what they should not, because Allah intends to purify them. In other words, they have been told that if they adopted such and such an attitude and way of life, they will be blessed with cleanliness, otherwise not. However, if the words "Allah intends to remove uncleanliness from yon . . . " are taken to mean that Allah has made them infallible, then is no reason why all the Muslims who perform their ablutions before offering the Prayer are not held as infallible, because about them also Allah says: "But Allah wills to purify you and complete His blessings upon you." (Al-Ma'idah: 6)”. (end of quote).
So as conclusion we should say, that ahlalbayt are: of `Ali, the family of `Aqil, the family of Ja`far and the family of `Abbas, wifes of prophet (sallalahu alaihi wa ala alihi wa sallam).
These include Banul Muttalib also, for the prophet (sallalahu alaihi wa ala alihi wa sallam) has said: “They didn’t left us neither during the period of ignorance nor in the period of Islam”

JavedhJuma
Posts: 403
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:47 pm

Re: Shias and Sunnis

#270

Unread post by JavedhJuma » Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:15 am

MF writes: Preordained by Allah?
Lame excuse. As infallible Devine person he should have known he is going to divorce 2, his children get divorced too. His father is going to die with un married women in car accident etc. etc.
Isn’t divorce allowed in the Quran? Don’t confuse your stupid cultural beliefs with the Quran!

You certainly Jest, brother? You are not only a hypocrite but also an empty vessel that makes the most sound! Let me prove by following examples!

As per you my Imam should have known he was going to divorce twice, etc, etc. My question to you is:

Did Allah SWT not know that Iblis would disobey him?

Did Allah SWT not know, Adam and Eve will eat the forbidden fruit at the behest of Iblis, and thus would disobey Him and believe Iblis?? Wasn’t Allah SWT aware of Adam’s transgression before ordering the angels to prostrate before him? Yet you hypocrite accept Adam as divinely appointed! You have a double standard!

Did Allah SWT not know Adam’s son Caine would commit murder of his own brother and thus bring reproach to Adam’s family? Thus, making Adam a father of a murderer!

Did Allah SWT not know, Dawood Nabi SAW would be an adulterer? Was his conduct exemplary? Yet, you hypocrite accept him as divinely appointed! You have a double standard!

Did Allah SWT not know that Suleiman Nabi SAW will be a promiscuous Nabi.? Allah never revoked his Naboowat for this reprehensible conduct! Would you describe his conduct as exemplary? If not, have you rejected him? If our Imam were to follow the footsteps of Hazrat Sulaiman and acquire 1000 concubines (rakhels, which should be haram in your belief), we would still believe in him and not judge him as we know being Ale-rasool he has the same privileges as all the Nabis and yet he has not gone that far.

Our Imam’s divorces are a lesson for you to learn that, in Islam, a woman is an equal partner and therefore has every right to be divorced if she wants to and not be held against her will the way you do by prolonging divorce cases in the Muslim countries till eventually the woman either kills herself or gets killed. No woman can ever easily get out of an abusive marriage in your culture and faith. There’s a ‘tawil” for you even in the divorces of our Imams. But will you ever learn?

For keeping this post short, these are few examples. I can show you more.

What is the point? Your brain is not capable of understanding.

MF says:
Tell me how many wives prophet SAW divorced?


Of course none, because he was personally not allowed to. Didn’t you read Sura Tahrim and footnotes. Prophet SAW was not happy with his wives but he had no choice. For more on the subject please read silvertongues quote about what Hazarat Umar said about Prophet's wives!However, people were allowed divorces and one close example to the Prophet was his son divorced his wife, Zainab, so that Prophet SAW could marry her! The conduct of the Prophet was deemed unseemly by the likes of you and triggered gossip among people like you and immediately Allah sent a revelation asking your kind to mind their own business and NOT judge the prophet. Was his conduct exemplary? Have you rejected the Prophet for his conduct? If not, you are a hypocrite and have a double standard! You’ve done this for 1400 years. You never learn! Now you are after Ale-Rasool Nothing new! Please read: http://davidiqbalkarim.wordpress.com/2013/06/03/33/



Did Allah SWT not know that our beloved Prophet would one day marry a nine year old child (Ayesha) and create a scandal even among the people of the book?

Did Allah SWT not know that posterity will one day question the conduct of our Khati-Mul-Anbia ( the Seal of all the Prophets) and brand him a “pedophile” for marrying Ayesha? Did Allah not know that the whole Muslim umma will have to face embarrassment when questioned on this issue by the People of the Book? You ignorant hypocrite! I’m waiting to hear you deny Prophet Mohamed his prophethood! Now, measure him with the same yardstick with which you measured our Imam (Ale-Rasool) and his children. You and your double standard!!!!

Wow! Had my Imam done something like what the Prophet did, you fitnatis would burn up wires from end to end.

 

Peace!