Shias and Sunnis

Given modern distractions, the need to understand Islam better has never been more urgent. Through this forum we can share ideas and hopefully promote the true spirit of Islam which calls for peace, justice, tolerance, inclusiveness and diversity.
as2153
Posts: 37
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:11 pm

Re: This Forum Is Creating Panic In Kothari Circles.

#31

Unread post by as2153 » Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:44 am

Im pleased that you are not anti-shia but you have stated clearly in a previous post that the raison d'etre for your presence on this board is to convert people to the sunni faith. In this respect, you are clearly making very little to no progress.

anajmi
Posts: 13507
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: This Forum Is Creating Panic In Kothari Circles.

#32

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:42 am

as2153

Do you know that Nuh (as) was trying to convert people for 950 years? Do you know how many people he converted? He couldn't convert his own son!! As I have said before, I do not care if you convert or not. My job is to post the truth and counter the stupidity even if stupidity insists on persisting. The fact that I have been here for 12 years and have posted over 10,000 times countering this stupidity is in itself a great success for me. For those who chose (or is it choose?) to remain stupid, probably not.

Qutbi-Hero
Posts: 439
Joined: Sat May 25, 2013 7:24 pm

Re: This Forum Is Creating Panic In Kothari Circles.

#33

Unread post by Qutbi-Hero » Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:06 pm

anajmi wrote:
The Shias believe with a conviction born out of logical analysis
If you had done any kind of analysis you wouldn't have thrown the feminine to masculine gender change argument. That displayed what analysis you have done. You ran to google every time you got hammered.
You really are a one-trick-pony aren't you Mr Sunni Scholar lol.
Loose and not Lose
Thank you for pointing that out. That is what you should be doing over here. Point out others spelling mistakes. Cause you ain't gud at anytheng else. :wink:
Don't be embarrassed about proving you have a massively lower IQ than me - instead be proud of the fact that you have a massively higher post count than me lol.

Qutbi-Hero
Posts: 439
Joined: Sat May 25, 2013 7:24 pm

Re: This Forum Is Creating Panic In Kothari Circles.

#34

Unread post by Qutbi-Hero » Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:10 pm

anajmi wrote:
You have talked about the Quran and been proven wrong.
No I haven't and to prove that, I am willing to start the discussion all over again. I guarantee you will run.
What a surprise, you are avoiding my questions yet again lol!

Now if you're not a 'coward' - please do answer the following questions instead of wetting your pants and ignoring them as you have done so far.
- why is Intercession justified in the Quran?
- why do your own 'authentic' books clarify who is the Ahlul Bayt?
- how do you explain the Tragedy of Karbala?
- how do you pray Namaaz using only instruction from the Quran?
Lets see how Brave you are lol.
Let us go back to what you stated
Shia theology is clearly justified and authenticated in the Quran. If you do not believe in the Quran then you are not a Muslim. Why did you join this forum if you are a Wahhabi?
And I asked
Can you please post the ayahs of the Quran which say that an Imam is divine? Now, your turn.
Already amply covered above. Now please do reciprocate and offer Ayats of the Quran which mention your 3 'Rightly Guided' lol.

Actually lets add this on to the above list of questions that make you run for the hills, like Umar at Uhud lol.

- why is Intercession justified in the Quran?
- why do your own 'authentic' books clarify who is the Ahlul Bayt?
- how do you explain the Tragedy of Karbala?
- how do you pray Namaaz using only instruction from the Quran?
- why are your 'Rightly Guided' not mentioned in the Quran?

Wait, we also have your blatant contradiction don't we - according to you, 33:33 makes clear that the wives ARE included in Ahlul Bayt, but then, also according to you, Mubahala makes clear that the wives ARE NOT included in Ahlul Bayt lol.

Keep em coming you badass Anti-Shia you!

Qutbi-Hero
Posts: 439
Joined: Sat May 25, 2013 7:24 pm

Re: This Forum Is Creating Panic In Kothari Circles.

#35

Unread post by Qutbi-Hero » Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:16 pm

anajmi wrote:Actually, to clarify, I am not anti-shia. I am just anti-stupidity. And I see a lot of it over here, specially from the "lovers" of Ali and Fatema.

Here is the display of this stupidity.

anajmi - Can you show me the ayahs that say that Imam is divine?
Ali Lover - Sunnis are criminals
anajmi - 33:33 refers to the wives of the prophet
Ali Lover - You are a terrorist bombing people

Do I need to say more? Well, I exaggerate a little. There may be a little more idiotic stuff from the Ali lover before the criminals and terrorists come into the picture!!
Londoner - Hey Anajmi, please answer these questions
Anajmi - Nope, all Shias are Kafir
Londoner - What the hell
Anajmi - It's true, and I'm here to convert you all
Londoner - LOL
Anajmi - Stop laughing, I'm a world renowned Islamic scholar and will make you a Sunni by the end of this week
Londoner - Great, we have a Muslim Forrest Gump on the forum LOL
Anajmi - You better stop laughing at me or I'll start calling Shias Kafir again. That will instantly make you become a Sunni, it worked on my friend Bubba
Londoner - Listen Forrest, Shias are very much Muslim, now answer these questions please
Anajmi - Nope, lets change the subject instead. Did you know that life is like a box of chocolates
Londoner - Seriously, just answer these questions man
Anajmi - No, because I'm highly intelligent and educated, whereas you are a looser
Londoner - Do you mean loser Forrest?
Anajmi - Oh yeah, that too. You still believe I'm a genius right?
Londoner - Well if you answer my questions, we can see if you really are
Anajmi - Sunnis don't answer questions because Imam Ali was not divine, he was just a big fat looser, I mean loser
Londoner - Dude, just answer the questions so you can make a rational argument for your opinion
Anajmi - No, I'm just going to keep ignoring the questions because that's how Sunnis roll
Londoner - I swear, if a Sunni ain't avoiding questions, he's committing murder and mayhem
Anajmi - Here we go again, just because Sunnis constantly commit evil, doesn't mean we are misguided, okay
Londoner - Yes it does Forrest
Anajmi - No it doesn't, we are on the right path and you are Kafir with all your peace and love bullshit
Londoner - Love is bad?
Anajmi - Damn straight it is. Especially love for your family, that's just for animals
Londoner - You've got problems at home haven't you Forrest
Anajmi - Yeah, nobody loves me man, nobody! Not even my mamma
Londoner - Is that why you spend so much time on the Internet?
Anajmi - Yes, I got nobody else to talk to, what else am I supposed to do! I'm such a looser, sorry, loser.
Londoner - Okay Forrest, wipe away your tears and lets talk. Shall we start with these questions
Anajmi - I knew it! I thought you cared but no, you just want me to answer those dumbass questions which destroy all my arguments!
Londoner - You're going to ignore them again aren't you
Anajmi - Listen, I've spent 12 years avoiding these questions so I'm not going to change now am I
Londoner - Seeing as you have over 10,000 posts, you've also avoiding having a social life and a sex life too
Anajmi - True, I'm so lonely, so very very lonely
Londoner - Becoming a Sunni has really worked out well for you hasn't it Forrest...

To be continued lol

Qutbi-Hero
Posts: 439
Joined: Sat May 25, 2013 7:24 pm

Re: This Forum Is Creating Panic In Kothari Circles.

#36

Unread post by Qutbi-Hero » Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:18 pm

anajmi wrote:Do you know that Nuh (as) was trying to convert people for 950 years? Do you know how many people he converted? He couldn't convert his own son!! As I have said before, I do not care if you convert or not. My job is to post the truth and counter the stupidity even if stupidity insists on persisting. The fact that I have been here for 12 years and have posted over 10,000 times countering this stupidity is in itself a great success for me. For those who chose (or is it choose?) to remain stupid, probably not.
Nuh AS was a Prophet and therefore on the right path. You are a Sunni and therefore on the wrong path.

Do you know that many of the Prophets had successors from their children - or is that a Shia fairy-tale too?

Also, why don't you go join an Atheist forum if you really want to counter stupidity. Did you decide against this because you'd have your butt handed to you lol.

anajmi
Posts: 13507
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: This Forum Is Creating Panic In Kothari Circles.

#37

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:18 pm

Already amply covered above.
There is no harm in going through them once again. We will get to your questions as soon as you answer mine. But, I guarantee that you won't answer them. I give you just one more chance.
Wait, we also have your blatant contradiction don't we - according to you, 33:33 makes clear that the wives ARE included in Ahlul Bayt, but then, also according to you, Mubahala makes clear that the wives ARE NOT included in Ahlul Bayt lol.
Actually, you misunderstand. Wives are a part of the Ahlul Bayt and so is the family of Hazrat Ali. Mubahala doesn't exclude anyone. Mubahala excludes the wives according to an Idiot's interpretation of hadith. Now remember that cause you will forget, I guarantee it. Mubahala does not exclude the wives from the ahlul bayt.

Let me repeat, sometimes, people with a lower IQ require repetition - Mubahala does not exclude the wives from the Ahlul Bayt. I will repeat it as frequently as you want. But, I guarantee you still won't understand.

Qutbi-Hero
Posts: 439
Joined: Sat May 25, 2013 7:24 pm

Re: This Forum Is Creating Panic In Kothari Circles.

#38

Unread post by Qutbi-Hero » Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:19 pm

zinger wrote:You know what DB-L, you are bang on target.

I have lots of Sunni friends, neighbours and business partners. I have never seen them spew venom the way Anajmi does.

You are right, Anajmi is not Sunni, he is an Anti-Shia who just has managed to read and understand the Quran and draw his own twisted conclusions from that, which is why i wouldnt call him Muslim either
True, Anajmi is a snake which most other forums would have banned, maybe they have, which is why he's ended up here lol.

anajmi
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Re: This Forum Is Creating Panic In Kothari Circles.

#39

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:20 pm

Londener - Hey..

Oh well, this one has lost its charm.

Qutbi-Hero
Posts: 439
Joined: Sat May 25, 2013 7:24 pm

Re: This Forum Is Creating Panic In Kothari Circles.

#40

Unread post by Qutbi-Hero » Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:21 pm

humanbeing wrote:
DB-Londoner wrote:There is also a distinction between a Sunni and an Anti-Shia. A decent God-fearing Sunni knows better than to call another Muslim a Kafir,
Agreed ! Good point !
At the same time, a decent god fearing shia does not blanket accuse all other sects in islam as criminals.
But, I think one of the pillar of shia faith is hatred and send laanats.

By the way ! I m not a sunni ( if that helps you contain your abuse)
You see, now that I am an Anti-Sunni (lol), it is my duty to constantly speak negatively about Sunnis in order to balance the copious and evil Anti-Shia rhetoric that is (strangely) allowed on this forum - if Anti-Sunni'ism upsets you then just accept it as collateral damage lol.

Also, if you really are Shia, then shouldn't you accordingly be upset about Anti-Shia'ism? Why does that not bother you I wonder lol.

Qutbi-Hero
Posts: 439
Joined: Sat May 25, 2013 7:24 pm

Re: This Forum Is Creating Panic In Kothari Circles.

#41

Unread post by Qutbi-Hero » Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:25 pm

humanbeing wrote:Why do lot of sunnis are more prone to criminal tendencies ? is it because their religions tells them to ? or is it because they are poor, marginalized, oppressed by political system and other social inequalities majorly economical or financial.
Here in the UK, all Muslims have the same advantages and disadvantages. We all started poor, marginalised and oppressed etc.

The Shias are intelligent and hard working and have moved forward in this country. We live in peace and have become prosperous.

The Sunnis are a primitive breed who have no respect for anyone or anything. They only move backwards and cause murder and mayhem. This is in their nature wherever they go which is expected of deviants following the wrong path. Or should I say, the right path because it leads them straight to hell, where they belong lol.
No religions preach hatred ( Shia do have an element of hatred to their faith).
I m a shia, I rather focus on emulating large heartedness of Ali and fatema, bravery of hussain rather then dwell in cowardly hatred.
There may be a little hatred with the Ithna Asheris, but there is no hatred within any of the different sects of the Ismaili branch.

Sunnis hate everyone, especially Shias, which is why some of them have joined this forum to mock us.
Thanks to Anajmi, I'm now the resident Anti-Sunni, so will mock them back lol.

Qutbi-Hero
Posts: 439
Joined: Sat May 25, 2013 7:24 pm

Re: This Forum Is Creating Panic In Kothari Circles.

#42

Unread post by Qutbi-Hero » Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:28 pm

anajmi wrote: There is no harm in going through them once again. We will get to your questions as soon as you answer mine. But, I guarantee that you won't answer them. I give you just one more chance. Actually, you misunderstand. Wives are a part of the Ahlul Bayt and so is the family of Hazrat Ali. Mubahala doesn't exclude anyone. Mubahala excludes the wives according to an Idiot's interpretation of hadith. Now remember that cause you will forget, I guarantee it. Mubahala does not exclude the wives from the ahlul bayt.

Let me repeat, sometimes, people with a lower IQ require repetition - Mubahala does not exclude the wives from the Ahlul Bayt. I will repeat it as frequently as you want. But, I guarantee you still won't understand.
Here pussy pussy, would you like a bowl of milk...

Now if you're not a 'coward' - please do answer the following questions instead of wetting your pants and ignoring them as you have done so far.
- why is Intercession justified in the Quran?
- why do your own 'authentic' books clarify who is the Ahlul Bayt?
- how do you explain the Tragedy of Karbala?
- how do you pray Namaaz using only instruction from the Quran?
- why are your 'Rightly Guided' not mentioned in the Quran?
Lets see how Brave you are lol.

anajmi
Posts: 13507
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: This Forum Is Creating Panic In Kothari Circles.

#43

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:49 pm

Ok, I will answer the questions. We now agree that you are the coward who didn't answer my question. My guarantee that you won't, was right on the mark. 25-0 for anajmi. :wink: On to 30 - 0
why is Intercession justified in the Quran?
Intercession is not "justified" in the Quran. Do you know the meaning of "justified"? Time to hit the English dictionary one more time.

Allah, in the Quran, for the sake of emphasis, says things in the Negative. For eg. Allah doesn't say Muhammad is a rasool. He says Muhammad is no more than a rasool. Allah doesn't say he is the only God. He says There is no God but him. Similarly, for intercession, it is in the negative. There is no intercession except with his permission. God wants to say with this negative connotation that do not rely on another's intercession as he may not get Allah's permission to intercede. But the idiot's interpretation of this is that intercession is "justified".
why do your own 'authentic' books clarify who is the Ahlul Bayt?
huh? They clarified that Ali's family is a part of Ahlul Bayt. Not that the wives are excluded from it. Let me repeat - The wives are not excluded from the Ahlul Bayt. One more time, this time in CAPS - THE WIVES ARE NOT EXCLUDED FROM THE AHLUL BAYT.
how do you explain the Tragedy of Karbala?
A tragedy no doubt. A war between the righteous and the corrupt where the righteous gave their lives for the sake of Islam. Unfortunately, their sacrifice caused some to create idols out of them and convert them into "holy family".
how do you pray Namaaz using only instruction from the Quran?
You cannot. Did I ever claim that you can? You claimed that Imam's divinity is justified and authenticated from the Quran and now have mud on your face.
why are your 'Rightly Guided' not mentioned in the Quran?
Well, they have been referenced in various ayahs. For eg. Abu Bakr is mentioned as the companion in the cave when Allah calms him by telling the prophet (saw) that with the two of them, the third one is Allah.

I think we can now close this discussion. We have proven who the coward is.

Grayson
Posts: 293
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:23 pm

Re: This Forum Is Creating Panic In Kothari Circles.

#44

Unread post by Grayson » Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:58 pm

I do not mean to get involved in this fight, but I am too curious in regards to your responses.
anajmi wrote:God wants to say with this negative connotation that do not rely on another's intercession as he may not get Allah's permission to intercede. But the idiot's interpretation of this is that intercession is "justified".
Connotation or not (I like how you say God "wants" to say'), it is justified isn't it? As long as it's from a person who has Allah's permission to intercede. We wouldn't disagree that the prophet and other nabi's would fall under that category. Why not members of the Ahl ul Bayt? Mind you, I do not endorse using loyalty and love in these people as a fallback of not answering for your sins. But I do not see why they're not in the position, to intercede for you, while still holding you accountable for your misdeeds. (In short: They can speak on your behalf, but not save you from Allah's judgement without His permission).
anajmi wrote:THE WIVES ARE NOT EXCLUDED FROM THE AHLUL BAYT.
So because they're not excluded, they're included? Or: you can't say they're not included, because they're not excluded? You're either included, or not, right? Particularly in regards to such an honorary distinction. The wives have already been given a great distinction in the Quran (and for that reason, should not be disrespected), but in regards to being Ahl ul Bayt is that clearly stated or just selectively interpreted (like allegations of what Shia tend to do)? Regardless, we can agree the prophets progeny (through Fatema) certainly are Ahl ul Bayt without a doubt, right? And that they actually do hold significance in regards to this deen, right?
anajmi wrote:A tragedy no doubt. A war between the righteous and the corrupt where the righteous gave their lives for the sake of Islam. Unfortunately, their sacrifice caused some to create idols out of them and convert them into "holy family".
Perhaps the response of yours I actually take a little offense to. So the way to honor the righteous is to follow the corrupt, praise their leaders, and consider them, their dynasty and their teachings as rightly guided? History was written by the winners, and it follows in regards to contemporary belief because they held the early majority. Doesn't seem to matter if it was right or wrong from a historical standpoint, huh?
how do you pray Namaaz using only instruction from the Quran?
anajmi wrote:You cannot.


Ofcourse you can't. How did you learn then? Through a source outside the Quran. An authenticated hadith that validated the procedure. It seems the Quran doesn't clearly spell out everything for us and as such, interpretation is needed in order to uphold practices of Islam. Why's yours more right than anyone elses? And what gives you the right to call others that don't prescribe to your specific interpretation as misguided?
why are your 'Rightly Guided' not mentioned in the Quran?
anajmi wrote:Well, they have been referenced in various ayahs. For eg. Abu Bakr is mentioned as the companion in the cave when Allah calms him by telling the prophet (saw) that with the two of them, the third one is Allah.
As have the Ahl ul Bayt been referenced. The difference in regards to "Rightly Guided"? Abu Bakr was elected, whereas Ali was given a distinction of being Ah ul Bayt. A distinction powerful enough to be considered as precious as the Quran according to the prophet himself. Even after Abu Bakr, his recommendation of Umar preceded that of Ali's distinction of Ahl ul Bayt? Even after Ali, the belief that corrupt leaders who held the majority were the rightful leaders preceded that of Ahl ul Bayt? I do not disrespect or throw abusive insults towards Ali's historical predecessors, but how is their preference justified, as they're not Ahl ul Bayt, and used their influence to decide their succession?
anajmi wrote:I think we can now close this discussion.
We can close this discussion if you can actually admit that your specific and narrow interpretations in regards to your Deen doesn't disprove the belief of others, as it's just as selective for you (when compared to someone of equal belief and knowledge in regards to their deen), as it is for them.

anajmi
Posts: 13507
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Re: This Forum Is Creating Panic In Kothari Circles.

#45

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:59 pm

Grayson,

There are just too many issues with your posts. You have assumed too much without any basis. For eg. You say

Regardless, we can agree the prophets progeny (through Fatema) certainly are Ahl ul Bayt without a doubt, right?

Wrong.
And that they actually do hold significance in regards to this deen, right?
Wrong again.
So the way to honor the righteous is to follow the corrupt, praise their leaders, and consider them, their dynasty and their teachings as rightly guided?
Wrong again. No one considers Yazeed to be rightly guided. Just because the 52nd Dai is corrupt, do you claim that the 1st 3 Dais shouldn't be followed too?

I won't go into the rest.

Grayson
Posts: 293
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:23 pm

Re: This Forum Is Creating Panic In Kothari Circles.

#46

Unread post by Grayson » Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:12 pm

anajmi,

1) Wait, so they're not Ahl ul Bayt? In that case, who is?

2) Considering the prophet said they're among the two precious things he'll leave behind, I assumed they held some significance.

3) I concede, that my reference to corrupt leaders is more in regards to apologists that pray RA after their name rather than you specifically. Unfortunately, I've come across that quite a bit in regards to my Sunni friends.

I do not mean to inflame, or insult you. I'd really appreciate good replies that could offer me more insight to your point of view, even if I don't agree to it. So please do go into the rest, and correct me according to where you feel I'm mistaken in what I argued. Whether that means one of us is completely wrong and the other isn't is irrelevant. I don't believe faith is that black and white. Thanks.

anajmi
Posts: 13507
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: This Forum Is Creating Panic In Kothari Circles.

#47

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:26 pm

Ahlul Bayt are people of the house. The people of my house are my Ahlul Bayt. The prophet's Ahlul Bayt were the people of his house. The prophet included the family of Hazrat Ali in his Ahlul Bayt even though Fatima, Hassan and Hussain are the Ahlul Bayt of Hazrat Ali as they were the people of his house. We have included too many people into Ahlul Bayt either because of misunderstandings or because of leverage. For eg. the Dai would claim to be a part of the Ahlul Bayt for personal reasons.

Ahlul Bayt as referenced in the Quran and Hadith are people of the prophet's household (his wives and his other children apart from Fatima (as)) and the household of Hazrat Ali. That is it.
2) Considering the prophet said they're among the two precious things he'll leave behind, I assumed they held some significance.
Well, my opinion is that the two things prophet left behind is the Quran and the Sunnah. If he left behind the Ahlul Bayt then he missed the mark since we have no Ahlul Bayt amongst us, unless you consider the corrupt Dai as a part of that Ahlul Bayt. We do have the Quran and we do have the Sunnah.

Grayson
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Re: This Forum Is Creating Panic In Kothari Circles.

#48

Unread post by Grayson » Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:38 pm

That's a fair (even if I don't agree) reply in regards to Ahl ul Bayt, but I'm quite accustomed to having that apply (Rasulallah's Ahl ul Bayt) for Imam's Hasan and Hussain as well, something that according to atleast Shia theology, they extended to their progeny. Why would that be an unfair assumption? And why wouldn't that allow them to be more reliable than say, the Umayyads?

Agreed again that there are too many claimants and likely false ones or those that don't uphold it in regards to their practice; but how does that make the concept in itself invalid?

Our opinions are fine, but the Prophet said, what the Prophet said; particularly in regards to hadith believed by everyone. You're closer to the Quran, some are closer to what they believe represent Ahl ul Bayt, neither totally disregard the other. Indeed some take the interpretation of one to justify thought on the other. Why is their version wrong, and yours right?

anajmi
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Re: This Forum Is Creating Panic In Kothari Circles.

#49

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:42 pm

but in regards to being Ahl ul Bayt is that clearly stated or just selectively interpreted
Clearly stated.

33:32 O wives of the Prophet! You are not like any of the [other] women, provided that you remain [truly] conscious of God. Hence, be not over-soft in your speech, lest any whose heart is diseased should be moved to desire [you]: but, withal, speak in a kindly way. -

33:33 And abide quietly in your homes, and do not flaunt your charms as they used to flaunt them in the old days of pagan ignorance; and be constant in prayer, and render the purifying dues, and pay heed unto God and His Apostle: for God only wants to remove from you all that might be loathsome, O you members of the [Prophet’s] household, and to purify you to utmost purity.

Anyone who reads the above two ayahs without any selective interpretation will conclude that the Ahlul Bayt being referred to over here are the wives of the prophet (saw). Those with selective interpretation will bring excuses like the feminine to masculine gender change which can easily be dismissed.

anajmi
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Re: This Forum Is Creating Panic In Kothari Circles.

#50

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:44 pm

Why is their version wrong, and yours right?
Well, it is wrong because it is wrong. The basis on which they have created their version is faulty. For eg. the feminine to masculine gender change. How many times do I have to explain this?

anajmi
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Re: This Forum Is Creating Panic In Kothari Circles.

#51

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:49 pm

Agreed again that there are too many claimants and likely false ones or those that don't uphold it in regards to their practice; but how does that make the concept in itself invalid?
What concept? That the ahlul bayt are divine? or that the Ahlul Bayt are the Ahlul Bayt? Do you know anyone who is a part of your conceptual Ahlul Bayt alive today? If you do not, then how did the prophet leave the Ahlul Bayt with you?

Grayson
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Re: This Forum Is Creating Panic In Kothari Circles.

#52

Unread post by Grayson » Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:51 pm

33's been mentioned rather thoroughly on this post, and while I'm more accustomed to the Rivaayat in regards to it's relevation that I learned, I won't denounce your view so much as consider it a difference in interpretation. Regardless, the wives of the Prophet are certainly of his family, and I personally don't believe in any abuse towards them.

"Why is their version wrong, and yours right?", comes after I said this, "Our opinions are fine, but the Prophet said, what the Prophet said; particularly in regards to hadith believed by everyone. You're closer to the Quran, some are closer to what they believe represent Ahl ul Bayt, neither totally disregard the other. Indeed some take the interpretation of one to justify thought on the other." When answering questions, please answer in it's entirety rather than taking a portion of the question and part of another argument. Thanks.

anajmi
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Re: This Forum Is Creating Panic In Kothari Circles.

#53

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:54 pm

33's been mentioned rather thoroughly on this post, and while I'm more accustomed to the Rivaayat in regards to it's relevation that I learned, I won't denounce your view so much as consider it a difference in interpretation.
Now that is what I call selective interpretation. It isn't my view my friend. It is the ayah of the Quran. That is the problem over here. The Quran is being dismissed as being someone's view. Nothing more that I can say to fix that.

Grayson
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Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:23 pm

Re: This Forum Is Creating Panic In Kothari Circles.

#54

Unread post by Grayson » Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:55 pm

anajmi wrote:What concept? That the ahlul bayt are divine? or that the Ahlul Bayt are the Ahlul Bayt? Do you know anyone who is a part of your conceptual Ahlul Bayt alive today? If you do not, then how did the prophet leave the Ahlul Bayt with you?
The concept that there's an Imam, whether in seclusion or not, that's of the prophets household, that will likely show himself before Qiyamat with proof of his claim. It's not a completely unjustified part of Shia belief when corroborated with agreed upon Hadith. Certainly not something worth bashing them over.
Last edited by Grayson on Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

anajmi
Posts: 13507
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: This Forum Is Creating Panic In Kothari Circles.

#55

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:56 pm

but the Prophet said, what the Prophet said; particularly in regards to hadith believed by everyone.
So tell me again, what did the prophet (saw) say in this hadith that is believed by everyone?

Grayson
Posts: 293
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:23 pm

Re: This Forum Is Creating Panic In Kothari Circles.

#56

Unread post by Grayson » Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:58 pm

anajmi wrote:
Now that is what I call selective interpretation. It isn't my view my friend. It is the ayah of the Quran. That is the problem over here. The Quran is being dismissed as being someone's view. Nothing more that I can say to fix that.
It's not selective as much as it's mindful of the circumstance that lead to the aayat, which gives it more clarity in it's intent than simple words alone. The problem is, the Quran isn't absolute without interpretation in regards to which sects hold different views.

anajmi
Posts: 13507
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: This Forum Is Creating Panic In Kothari Circles.

#57

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:59 pm

The concept that there's an Imam, whether in seclusion or not, that's of the prophets household, that will likely show himself before Qiyamat with proof of his claim. It's not a completely unjustified part of Shia belief when corroborated with agreed upon Hadith. Certainly not certain worth bashing them over.
Hmmm a hidden Imam hiding for centuries. Not unjustified at all. Considering the fact that the hidden Imam talks to your Dai every now and then. Pray, is this the concept of the Ahlul Bayt? How did you make the jump from "I will leave the ahlul bayt with you" to "I will leave the ahlul bayt with you but in hiding" within the same concept? It is almost sad that you laying your ridiculous concepts at the feet of the prophet (saw).

anajmi
Posts: 13507
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: This Forum Is Creating Panic In Kothari Circles.

#58

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:00 pm

It's not selective as much as it's mindful of the circumstance that lead to the aayat, which gives it more clarity in it's intent than simple words alone. The problem is, the Quran isn't absolute without interpretation in regards to which sects hold different views.
Do you know of the circumstances that lead to the ayah?

Grayson
Posts: 293
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:23 pm

Re: This Forum Is Creating Panic In Kothari Circles.

#59

Unread post by Grayson » Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:01 pm

anajmi wrote:So tell me again, what did the prophet (saw) say in this hadith that is believed by everyone?
Perhaps not everyone, but it overlaps among different believers:

Hadith of the Two Weighty Things:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith_of_ ... hty_things

Grayson
Posts: 293
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:23 pm

Shias and Sunnis

#60

Unread post by Grayson » Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:03 pm

anajmi wrote:
It's not selective as much as it's mindful of the circumstance tha t lead to the aayat, which gives it more clarity in it's intent than simple words alone. The problem is, the Quran isn't absolute without interpretation in regards to which sects hold different views.
Do you know of the circumstances that lead to the ayah?
I know one account of it, yes. Which is why I argue my view not being completely unfounded. Or at the least, not to be denounced.