How did angels know man would be corrupt?

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Muslim First
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Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: How did angels know man would be corrupt?

#121

Unread post by Muslim First » Tue Sep 03, 2013 5:55 pm

Salim wrote
Azazil's job is to divert human from becoming the best. His memory he can divert human at different levels. He can divert prophets and he can divert abds. Azazils biggest asset is man itself. As he uses man against man to destroy mankind. Wars, bomb lasts, murders, riots are the best weapon of Azazil. Science are philosophy are biggest enemies of Azazil. But regardless of how hard he tries, man will overcome all of this and man will keep growing as we have allah's noor in us.
Ya Allah Madad Salim Bhai
You are correct.
I do not know if Azazil has diverted Prophet.
He definitely diverted Allah's noor (your Hazir Imam Aga Khan). After announcing that he will publish Farman on Nizari Ismaili Salat/Namaz some years ago, Azazil is preventing him from making good on his promise.
Many Agakhanis believe him to be Khuda on earth with power to forgive sins.

salim
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Re: How did angels know man would be corrupt?

#122

Unread post by salim » Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:12 pm

alwan wrote:I do not know if Azazil has diverted Prophet.
Right from Adam there are tons of prophets to whom Azazil diverted. rest of your question is out of topic and I have answered it so many times.

porus
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Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 5:01 am

Re: How did angels know man would be corrupt?

#123

Unread post by porus » Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:41 am

salim wrote:Right from Adam there are tons of prophets to whom Azazil diverted.
Azazil is Shaytan. The only Prophet that Shaytan led astray was Adam. And that happened before Adam was Prophet and not on earth. All Prophets (on earth) since then were protected from being led astray by Shaytan who must have tried very hard.

While Shaytan has free hand in leading human beings astray, Allah places major blame on causing corruption, not on Shaytan, but on man himself. Allah says so in ayat 30:41, a translation of the first part of which is :

"Evil (sins and disobedience of Allah, etc.) has appeared on land and sea because of what the hands of men have earned (by oppression and evil deeds, etc.)"

There is a Sufi legend that states that Jinns were inhabitants of earth before man was sent there. All Jinns did was worship Allah with such devotion that angels pleaded with Allah to let them dwell in paradise too. So Allah chose the most devoted among the Jinns, Iblis, to enter paradise and live among angels. Some of the Jinns left behind on earth became jealous and started causing corruption and bloodshed amongst themselves.

Angels saw what Jinns were doing down on earth. When Allah said that He was going to create man from clay, a substance even denser than fire from which Jinns were created, angels were horrified. If Jinn can be corrupt, man was likely to be even more corrupt.

Allah should have listened to angels but He wanted to try the humans out and His will prevailed. And then He complains in His book that man is responsible for all the corruption. What did He expect?

anajmi
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Re: How did angels know man would be corrupt?

#124

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:26 pm

So I guess you've got it all wrong as far as the human panjatan is concerned right? Not only were they not infallible, but because of the fact that they have been created from the same dense material as other humans, they are just as corruptible!!

anajmi
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Re: How did angels know man would be corrupt?

#125

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:50 pm

With the last few idiotic posts by porus, he proves once more that he may know the difference between lam and laa in Arabic but has no idea what an ayah of the Quran says. It is ironic that with his own tongue he acknowledges that knowledge of Arabic doesn't help understand the Quran. With his completely ignorant ranting he ignores the fact that this dense material that humans are made up of actually gives these humans the best quality that they have. A quality that converted some dumb ones like him into idol worshippers.

It reminds me of a song from the movie Qurbani - Farishton ko nahin milta yeh woh jazbaa hai insaani. Naseeba sath de jinka wahi dete hain Qurbani.

The angels saw the corruption that humans would spread, but did they fail to see the sacrifice that the humans would make for the sake of mankind? Even today with everything that is going on around us. an overwhelming majority of humans are good humans.

porus
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Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 5:01 am

Re: How did angels know man would be corrupt?

#126

Unread post by porus » Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:58 pm

anajmi wrote:So I guess you've got it all wrong as far as the human panjatan is concerned right? Not only were they not infallible, but because of the fact that they have been created from the same dense material as other humans, they are just as corruptible!!
Hey muttonhead,

Panjatan, like Prophets, were protected from corruption and they include Muhammad.
porus wrote:The only Prophet that Shaytan led astray was Adam. And that happened before Adam was Prophet and not on earth. All Prophets (on earth) since then were protected from being led astray by Shaytan who must have tried very hard.

porus
Posts: 3594
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 5:01 am

#127

Unread post by porus » Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:16 pm

anajmi wrote:With the last few idiotic posts by porus, he proves once more that he may know the difference between lam and laa in Arabic but has no idea what an ayah of the Quran says.
For a person who does not know the difference between lam and la in Arabic, your masquerade as a Great Authority on the Quran has been frequently exposed.

You have been shown to have an extreme inferiority complex when it comes to my posts and you are driven to respond to them with ridicule. None of the rest of the forum participants care much for my contributions. Hardly anyone else responds. And, judging by the number of views for my posts (not much more than about 20), there is not much interest in them.

And you do not know the difference in my posts between genuine tafseer and a whimsical bait. The latter is designed for you because of certainty that you alone will fall for it.

porus
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Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 5:01 am

Re: How did angels know man would be corrupt?

#128

Unread post by porus » Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:34 pm

anajmi wrote: The angels saw the corruption that humans would spread, but did they fail to see the sacrifice that the humans would make for the sake of mankind?
Yes, like Wahhabis who blow themselves up also killing innocent Muslims in a great personal sacrifice for the betterment of Islam! No wonder angels failed to see that as a'sacrifice' but rightly saw it as corruption.

Genuine sacrifice is always against corruption and for upholding God's religion. Whenever there is a great sacrifice, there too is great corruption.

I would quote the example of Imam Husain, but that would not go down well with you, the one who loves Yazid so much!

anajmi
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Re: How did angels know man would be corrupt?

#129

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:14 am

I would quote the example of Imam Husain, but that would not go down well with you, the one who loves Yazid so much!
I actually quoted his example. But you had to read my post closely. Here is what I said.
A quality that converted some dumb ones like him into idol worshippers.
That should've rung a bell for you.
Panjatan, like Prophets, were protected from corruption and they include Muhammad.
So it didn't really matter what material they were made of correct? Good. So it is not the material that you are made of, but rather, it is whether you have been chosen to follow in his path or not? Do you have the right qualities to become amongst those that are chosen? Read Surah Fatiha. And this time, read someone else's translation.

I am simply in the process of shredding your idiotic theories one by one. There is a reason why no one else is interested in your posts my friend. :wink:

anajmi
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Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: How did angels know man would be corrupt?

#130

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:19 am

Genuine sacrifice is always against corruption and for upholding God's religion. Whenever there is a great sacrifice, there too is great corruption.
Not necessarily. Infact most of the times, genuine sacrifice is something that is done simply for the sake of doing good. For eg. a person might choose to sell his house to pay someone's health bills. A person might choose to withdraw his savings to pay for someone's education. People donating their organs for others. There are countless such examples out there. But of course, people like you will only see what you want to see which is obviously not what others are interested in as you pointed out.