Status of Mohammad and Ali in Bohraism

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silvertongue
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Re: Status of Mohammad and Ali in Bohraism

#31

Unread post by silvertongue » Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:12 am

anajmi wrote:People keep shouting that they follow Ali, but do you know if Ali ever said "Aliyun Waliyullah" in his namaz?

According to the Ali "lovers" Ali led a life of deceit with the first 3 khalifas. In nahjul balagha there is a sermon about Ali ordering 5 separate salaahs at 5 separate times. But the Ali "lovers" claim that this was only to fool the followers of the first 3 khalifas. If this is the kind of example that Ali is setting for others, then I better not follow Ali. Who knows what else he did to fool others!

By the way, I do not believe Ali was fooling anyone. His "lovers" are only fooling themselves.

incredible,

Please stop talking. You are just as ignorant as others over here. Please do not make idiotic statements like "there is no authentic way of reading namaz".
Here is a text extracted from Khutbatul Bayan of Imam Ali (A.S). I hope you wont doubt his words about himself here coz we all know he is the only one titled as Baab Ul Ilm. Doubting his words would be doubting the Prophet. So here it goes.

Text From Ana Howa (Khutbatul Bayan);
I am the slayer of the enemies of Allah in every era. I have always been in existence. I am the Siddiq e Akbar (Most Trustworthy). I am the Farooq e Azm (Greatest Honor). I speak with divine inspiration. I am the governor of the stars. Through the command and knowledge of Allah I establish the orbits of the stars and constellations. In My hand are the saffron and crimson colored flags. I am that unseen whose unveiling is being awaited for a great purpose. I am the bestower and withholder of blessings.

No one can praise Me except Myself. I am the protector of the religion of My Lord. I am the supporter and companion of My Cousin (RasoolAllah saw). I am the one who laid Him to rest. I am Wali of Allah. I am the Lord of Khizr (as) and Haroon (as). I am the Lord of Musa (as) and Yusha bin Nun. I am the Lord of Jannah. I am the one who causes the rain to fall, the earth to tremble, and the sun and moon to be eclipsed. I am the one who shall slay the kufar (disbelievers). I am the Imam of the Righteous.

More can be found even in Nahjul Balagha.. Jazakallah..

anajmi
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Re: Status of Mohammad and Ali in Bohraism

#32

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:03 am

Let me repeat my question. Did Ali say Aliyun Waliullah in his namaz?

By the way, I would strongly advice you to take khutbatul bayan and flush it down the toilet. If Ali is saying that he is the Lord of Musa (as) then Ali is completely under the control of shaitan, nauzubillah. May Allah protect us from this extreme shirk that we have started indulging in. Astagfirullah. Allah says in the Quran that he is the one who is the Lord of Musa and he is the one who causes rain to fall and you people have been so blinded by idol worship that you have replaced Allah with Ali. From this point on, no argument that you make should be considered Islamic or taken seriously

asad
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Re: Status of Mohammad and Ali in Bohraism

#33

Unread post by asad » Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:11 am

@silvertongue

what book is this Khatbatul bayan?

silvertongue
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Re: Status of Mohammad and Ali in Bohraism

#34

Unread post by silvertongue » Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:21 am

Namaz is Worship to Allah... Why would Aliun Waliallah be there.. I guess ur talking about Azan. And if you are having an issue with that then ill clear it well. Addition of Aliun Waliallah is a shahadah which we muslims believe that Ali is the Wali of Allah and Wasi un Nabi. So it is obligatory for every muslim to recite his name whenever we mention RasulAllah. Its like a Durood or Salwat we say. But to be clear its not a part of Azan rather a more of agreement or shahadah as being his Wali. And We recite his name After Rasulallah coz Rasulallah himself said on many many ocassions that Whenever you mention me or remember me, give Salam on my aal/ahlul bayt as well. Thats y when we say Rasulallah Sallallah ho alaihe wa aalehi wasallam.. Not like many sunnis who literally changed the morning azan from Khair ul Amal to Khairu minnanaom... How can Salat be only important than sleeping wheras in original it says that its important than all the deeds.. Now sleepin here is on priority... And some follow this guy who changed many things in Islam. Better not go off topic here.. I hope iev cleared u brother.. :-)

silvertongue
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Re: Status of Mohammad and Ali in Bohraism

#35

Unread post by silvertongue » Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:25 am

anajmi wrote:Let me repeat my question. Did Ali say Aliyun Waliullah in his namaz?

By the way, I would strongly advice you to take khutbatul bayan and flush it down the toilet. If Ali is saying that he is the Lord of Musa (as) then Ali is completely under the control of shaitan, nauzubillah. May Allah protect us from this extreme shirk that we have started indulging in. Astagfirullah. Allah says in the Quran that he is the one who is the Lord of Musa and he is the one who causes rain to fall and you people have been so blinded by idol worship that you have replaced Allah with Ali. From this point on, no argument that you make should be considered Islamic or taken seriously
Lord always doesnt mean GOD dear brother.. It also means Master or Leader. Like the Word Maula.. Maula means GOD, brother, master, leader and so on. Dont take me wrong here. No muslim would ever consider Ali to be Allah Nauzobillah. So be clear here.

silvertongue
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Re: Status of Mohammad and Ali in Bohraism

#36

Unread post by silvertongue » Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:35 am

asad wrote:@silvertongue

what book is this Khatbatul bayan?
ANA HOWA "I AM THAT" Imam Ali in his own Words.
http://www.smashwords.com/books/downloa ... m-that.pdf

asad
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Re: Status of Mohammad and Ali in Bohraism

#37

Unread post by asad » Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:24 am

silvertongue wrote:
anajmi wrote:Let me repeat my question. Did Ali say Aliyun Waliullah in his namaz?

By the way, I would strongly advice you to take khutbatul bayan and flush it down the toilet. If Ali is saying that he is the Lord of Musa (as) then Ali is completely under the control of shaitan, nauzubillah. May Allah protect us from this extreme shirk that we have started indulging in. Astagfirullah. Allah says in the Quran that he is the one who is the Lord of Musa and he is the one who causes rain to fall and you people have been so blinded by idol worship that you have replaced Allah with Ali. From this point on, no argument that you make should be considered Islamic or taken seriously
Lord always doesnt mean GOD dear brother.. It also means Master or Leader. Like the Word Maula.. Maula means GOD, brother, master, leader and so on. Dont take me wrong here. No muslim would ever consider Ali to be Allah Nauzobillah. So be clear here.
You dont consider Ali to be Allah but in previous post what you have posted that Ali said is full of Shirk as these are the sole responsibilities of Allah alone
I am the Lord of Khizr (as) and Haroon (as). I am the Lord of Musa (as) and Yusha bin Nun. I am the Lord of Jannah. I am the one who causes the rain to fall, the earth to tremble, and the sun and moon to be eclipsed.

silvertongue
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Re: Status of Mohammad and Ali in Bohraism

#38

Unread post by silvertongue » Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:36 am

Brother Lord here means master or leader.. Like the word Maula.. e.g. Lord Henry.. A title used for master or leader. It doesnt mean GOD.. How can the best servant of Allah even claim that. Use your brains here. Dont simply go on words.

silvertongue
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Re: Status of Mohammad and Ali in Bohraism

#39

Unread post by silvertongue » Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:52 am

A part of Sermon delivered in Kufa:

I am the standard bearer of Lawa Hamd (flag which will be raised on the day of Judgment). I am the bestower of unlimited bounties and grace of Allah. If I were to inform you of all that I am, you would undoubtedly disbelieve Me. For I am also the one who slays the oppressors.

محمد
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Re: Status of Mohammad and Ali in Bohraism

#40

Unread post by محمد » Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:55 am

silvertongue wrote:Brother Lord here means master or leader.. Like the word Maula.. e.g. Lord Henry.. A title used for master or leader. It doesnt mean GOD.. How can the best servant of Allah even claim that. Use your brains here. Dont simply go on words.
please brother with all due respect dont be an IDIOT.

if here maula doesnt means LORD.

what what does it means to be MAULA of HEAVEN?

heaven needs any friend or master?



for GOD sake stop posting all this stupidity, u are just defaming great friend and brother of prophet(s) by putting all this claims in his mouth and assiciating him with all this.

if ALI (S) would hear all this, he wold straight order to burn you.

silvertongue
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Re: Status of Mohammad and Ali in Bohraism

#41

Unread post by silvertongue » Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:57 am

Continued:: Beware of My status! Who is there which is likened unto Me? I am the Ruler of the Tides. I am the one who speaks to the sun. I am the one w ho sends the wrath of Allah upon His enemies. I am the sanctuary for all of those w ho obey Allah. Verily Allah is My Lord and there is no other Allah. Verily falsehood is but an illusion while haq (truth) is everlasting. Verily I shall soon leave this world.
Beware! Be watchful against the tests and trials caused by the Ummayyads. And after their passing the kingdom will revert to the Abbasids who will bring forth both happiness and sorrows upon mankind. And they shall erect a city called Baghdad which shall lie between the Tigris and Euphrates. Anyone who shall make his abode there will be accursed. The oppressors from amongst My people shall arise from them and they shall build palaces for themselves and courts and shrines. They shall seek supremacy through trickery and blasphemy. From the descendants of Bani Abbas two kings shall arise and from their hands the earth will become filled with tyranny, injustice, and oppression. After this has passed the Qaim (ajf) shall reappear upon the earth. Then I shall show My Face (Rajat) from amongst man and it shall be as radiant as the moon and shining as the stars.

محمد
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Re: Status of Mohammad and Ali in Bohraism

#42

Unread post by محمد » Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:59 am

most probably all this so called sermons are not even from mouth of Imam ALI, and latter they were created by extreme lovers of ALI who wanted to satisfy their own shirk by reading it again and again.

silvertongue
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Re: Status of Mohammad and Ali in Bohraism

#43

Unread post by silvertongue » Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:02 am

If I were to inform you of all that I am, you would undoubtedly disbelieve Me.
It says it all.. U can simply disbelieve and Ali knows this. That many would do that. This is a test for all the muslims.. Its not your fault not to believe.. But to have faith in Allah and his servant Ali with his position so high. Again I would say this that dont consider Ali to be Allah.. Ali is given all these attributes by Allah. How can you not love such a person who is so exalted and Allah has showered blessings on him. I pity for those who find excuses to degrade Ali and find faults in his sermons..

silvertongue
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Re: Status of Mohammad and Ali in Bohraism

#44

Unread post by silvertongue » Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:28 am

Regarding His lineage, Moula Ali (asws) wrote to muawiya (la) that “You claim you are also the offspring of Abdu Munaf, but don’t forget neither was Ummayah like Hashim nor was Harb like Abdul Muttalib (as) nor was Abu Sufian (la) like Abu Talib (as). A liar cannot be like the trustworthy. Haq (truth) cannot be like batil (falsehood). Neither can a momin be like a kafir. Verily, you are from the worst family and you will follow in the footsteps of your forefathers. Allah honored Us with nabuiyat (prophet hood) while you are from those who brought Islam through force and fear.” (Najul Balagha)

humanbeing
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Re: Status of Mohammad and Ali in Bohraism

#45

Unread post by humanbeing » Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:33 am

@Silvertongue ! Your post are shocking and surprising. I personally do not agree, that Imam Ali would make such claims. These posts are really crossing the limits.

Whoever elevates ahlul bayt and predecessors all the way till duaats to some fantastic supernatural miracle makers. I simply ask, why is it difficult to promote the simplicity and humanness of the ahlulbayt and be inspired from them. Rather than keep trumpeting superhuman qualities and over the top, out of the box mojizaas to show and prove their importance.

It is far more inspiring for me to learn the simple, humble life and message from Prophet and his family and friend’s lives rather then gulp down in forced faith stories of supernatural and superhuman qualities.

I truly believe Allah is capable of making miracles, I see it everyday around, but do not believe any human can do miracles, what allah can do. There are discussions over prophet’s miracles and stuff. But I’d rather take it as miracle of allah in favor of Prophet being righteous !

Majority of human race is more convinced with magical / miracles powers of their leadership. Rather then believe in simplicity. Any talks of magic and miracle by leader is a put off for me in that person.

anajmi
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Re: Status of Mohammad and Ali in Bohraism

#46

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:29 am

Brother Lord here means master or leader
And since when did Ali become the Master of Musa (as)? Musa (as) has only one master and that is Allah.
And when did Ali decide that he is the one who sends down rain?

I am sorry my friends, but if this is what the shia believe then Ali will forsake these people on the day of judgment.

And by the way, we have also established that the silvertongue shia do not follow Ali because Ali never said Aliun Waliullah in either adhan or in tahiyaat which bohra do.

anajmi
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Re: Status of Mohammad and Ali in Bohraism

#47

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:52 am

So, I did a google search on this khutbatul bayan with these fantastic claims about Ali and this is what I found on shiachat.com

This is the thread

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/234 ... try2152748

Q - To what extent is the sihhat of khutbat al-bayan?
A - Bismihi Ta`ala, the sihhat of it's attribution to the Imam Amir al-Mu'mineen has not been established, wallahu 'l-`aalim.

Q - (I'm not translating the question word for word, but the questioner is mentioning that recently in Lebanon, a recording of khutba al-bayan has been circulating, and they wanted to know how sahih its attribution to the Imam is, and whether it was permissible to circulate it)
A - Bismihi Ta`ala, the mentioned khutba is known and the sihhat of its attribution to the Imam Amir al-Mu'mineen has not been established. And there is no choice but to establish the sihhat of attribution prior to spreading it and distributing it to the people on that it is of the Imam , wallahu 'l-`aalim.

3.) Al-FayD Al-QaaShaanee:
ان خطبة البيان وخطبة الطنجية ليستا من كلام أمير المؤمنين عليه السلام
"That the khutbah al-bayyaan and khutbah al-Tanjiyyah are NOT from the word of Ameer Al-Mu'mineen (as)"
•Source:
•Al-FayD Al-Qaasaanee (d. 1091 AH), Al-Usool Al-Asliyyah, pg. 192

QUestion: Is KhuTbah Al-Bayyaan and Al-KhuTbah Al-NaTnajiyyah authentic?
Answer: These two khutbahs do not exist in the accepted books of the shee`ah, and they have meaning which do not agree with pillars of our religion, especially the issuance of these words from the hero of monotheism (Imaam `Alee (as))....

Then I found an English translation of this crap and am going through the Arabic as well. It is difficult for me to read and understand but I will prove this a piece of garbage inshaallah. Here is one sentence from the English translation.

I am both the worshipper and
the worshipped.


With just this one sentence it is enough to prove the invalidity of this document. May Allah protect us from the shaitan who is trying to turn us towards shirk and kufr.

More to come soon.

anajmi
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Re: Status of Mohammad and Ali in Bohraism

#48

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Dec 05, 2013 2:18 pm

Some more excerpts from this bayan attributed to Ali.

3.I am zahir (apparent). I am batin (hidden). (Jamia al Israr)
4.I am the first and I am the last. (Jamia al Israr)
Allah says in the Quran
هُوَ الْأَوَّلُ وَالْآخِرُ وَالظَّاهِرُ وَالْبَاطِنُ وَهُوَ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عَلِيمٌ
57:3 He is the First and the Last, and the Outward as well as the Inward: and He has full knowledge of everything.

"He" over here refers to Allah. Look at 57:1 and 57:2

6.I am the one who gives life and I am the one who orders death. (Al Zam al Nasib)
Allah says in the Quran
أَلَمْ تَرَ إِلَى الَّذِي حَآجَّ إِبْرَاهِيمَ فِي رِبِّهِ أَنْ آتَاهُ اللّهُ الْمُلْكَ إِذْ قَالَ إِبْرَاهِيمُ رَبِّيَ الَّذِي يُحْيِـي وَيُمِيتُ قَالَ أَنَا أُحْيِـي وَأُمِيتُ قَالَ إِبْرَاهِيمُ فَإِنَّ اللّهَ يَأْتِي بِالشَّمْسِ مِنَ الْمَشْرِقِ فَأْتِ بِهَا مِنَ الْمَغْرِبِ فَبُهِتَ الَّذِي كَفَرَ وَاللّهُ لاَ يَهْدِي الْقَوْمَ الظَّالِمِينَ
2:258 ART THOU NOT aware of that [king] who argued with Abraham about his Sustainer, (simply] because God had granted him kingship? Lo! Abraham said: "My Sustainer is He who grants life and deals death." [The king] replied: "I [too] grant life and deal death!" Said Abraham: "Verily, God causes the sun to rise in the east; cause it, then, to rise in the west!" Thereupon he who was bent on denying the truth remained dumbfounded: for God does not guide people who [deliberately] do wrong.

This is a very apt ayah. It talks about a king who claimed that he is the one who gives life and orders death and he was amongst those bent on denying the truth.

55.I am the one who vanquished shirk in this world. (Fazail ibne Shazaan)
Not by writing this book you didn't!!

64.I am the one who will punish the people of hell. No one can say this except Me. If another
claims this, then he is a liar. (Tafseer Noor al Saqlain)

Not according to the Quran. Read it before making these atrocious claims.

I am the savior of Ibrahim from the fire.
Actually, that is Allah too.

75.I am the Wajha (face) of Allah in the heavens. (Fazail ibne Shazaan)
Seriously?

This goes on and on in this book. This book is the worst form of shirk I have seen coming out from our Ali loving brethren!!

ghulam muhammed
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Re: Status of Mohammad and Ali in Bohraism

#49

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:25 pm

silvertongue wrote:Addition of Aliun Waliallah is a shahadah which we muslims believe that Ali is the Wali of Allah and Wasi un Nabi. So it is obligatory for every muslim to recite his name whenever we mention RasulAllah. Its like a Durood or Salwat we say.
By your above mentioned logic the time is not far when bohras will add another sentence after Ali un waliyullah........... "wa Dai un Burhanuddinullah wa mansoos ul mufaddallullah" because bohras believe that the Dai and his Mansoos are duly appointed by the Imam, the chain of which leads to Mola Ali (a.s.). Hence it will be obligatory for every bohra to recite the Dai's and Mansoos' name whenever they mention Ali un waliyullah !!

BTW Please prove from some authentic sources whether Mola Ali's own sons Imam Hasan (a.s.), Imam Hussain (a.s.) had ever added the phrase 'Ali un waliyullah' in their azaan !!

anajmi
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Re: Status of Mohammad and Ali in Bohraism

#50

Unread post by anajmi » Sun Dec 08, 2013 12:01 pm

محمد wrote: all hadith were written after 400 years and QURAAN itself doesnt speaks about any perfect way of reading namaz, now go and figure out what is namaz.

and as far as books like muslim and bukhari is concern, u should drink camel piss every time u wake up and catch cold.
I wonder who are the people who always talk about camel's piss when a matter of any of the fard like namaz, zakat, fasting and hajj come up? I have encountered many such folks. These are the only ones who bring this up. No scholar ever asks anyone to drink camel's piss. Have these idiots understood hadith better than those scholars? Of course not. The camel piss is an excuse to avoid praying in the way that has been clearly established. Hadith were written 400 years later, or 250 years later. It doesn't matter. They were written down for your benefit. If they hadn't been written down, people would've been even more lost than they are today. At least they are more reliable than anything coming out of the mouths of people like you guys 1400 years later correct? What would you prefer? Something written 400 years later or something written 1400 years later?

By the way I did some research on camel urine and I found this site - check it out

http://www.premarin.org/

seeker110
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Re: Status of Mohammad and Ali in Bohraism

#51

Unread post by seeker110 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:41 am

People all over the world make certain changes in their belief system, as they become uncomfortable with some rules or ritual which does not hold strong in their understanding of the religion they were born. I have friends who were practicing catholic when they lived with their parents. Later on, after leaving the parents house they became protestant. morman , scientologists, muslims, bhudists, etc., etc.,. This is considered very normal and at times a healthy change, this is not my opinion but people who have studied far more into people and religion.
There are some people who go in the opposite direction of what they were raised as. These are the people did not just deviate which is normal they go attacking vehemently. These are the people who were roughed up, molested, discarded or born ugly and can be missing limbs or just crazy.
I have had interactions with Muslims of most flavors. None, none ever spoke against Ahlebait. I was lucky so far in life. Until I met Anajmi on this forum. Its Okay to not believe in Mola Ali, no skin off my back, but to show hate, and put down Ahlebait is hateful.

This ugly iddiot has absolutely no place on this Shia site. He belongs on some other site which caters to his persuasion. Time and time again people have complained about his hateful writing on our Forum. Yet, he is not booted out permanently. Maybe 10 or 15 people who has already complained in the past is not enough for the moderators. It might take 20 or more,to finish the job. I am for one still making yet another request. Why should we hear or read put downs by this Shimr. If he dies under a shade tree I should bring out his body under the hot son, piss on it, and let the vultures have at it. No self respecting man would dare to keep coming back where people dont follow a common belief. Please take this wreched out of his misery. Please.

.

silvertongue
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Re: Status of Mohammad and Ali in Bohraism

#52

Unread post by silvertongue » Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:27 am

I ev noticed that some of my posts has quite created a debate here. Although what I wrote or lets say copied some texts from an article or book was not of my own.. It depends on belief. RasulAllah said that there will be 72 sects of muslims and only one will enter the gates of heaven.. Isnt it a thing to just think that why he told like this. are the other 71 not muslims.?.. There is a difference of belief.. And thats the Wilayat. Not that I am a Shia and an intense lover of My Master Maula Ali (A.S). but so far in my research in both the Shia and the Sunni world, this is the main difference which many fail to understand yet its quite simple. The verses of Quran and Many Sunni Hadiths are a proof but again its belief. Some read the ayaths and hadiths yet find faults in it or direct it to others. Lets just say that when it comes to their belief. Theyr scared. Scared about their surroundings. Anyways. What I believe that Maula Ali(A.S) has an exalted position after Rasul Allah. A position which Allah showed many times in Quran and we have even read the books of history. So i wont go in much detail here. But our frnd anajmi here has his own belief. Even if he hates or talks rough abt Shia or Ahlul Bayt, WE shoudnt. Thats what we learn from the life of Maula Ali (A.S). Just have a look at the incident of Siffin and Jamal. Ameerul Mumineens life is full of lessons and knowledge for us to follow and understand. To examine his actions why he did so and what was the reason. Let anajmi share his belief and say what he wants to. Iev had quite a debate with him in the last few posts, but i do understand that anyone would definitely think a 1000 times why anyone would claim to be so. Think of this Hadiths by Rasulallah : " No one Knows Allah better, but I and Ali, No one knows me but Allah and Ali and no one knows Ali better than Allah and I. See the connection of the God, the Messenger and the Wali here.. so we cant judge their positions even if we r the most knowledgable person in the world. Its simple. So lets just be all neutral here and my humble regards to Anajmi, Seeker110, azad, mohammed, zinger my bro.. May Allah guide us and keep us on the Path of Righteousness.

incredible
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Re: Status of Mohammad and Ali in Bohraism

#53

Unread post by incredible » Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:34 am

this whole concept of 72 sect kept me wondering for years.

but finally I found there is nothing called 72 sect and one is qualified for jannah.

infact true momeen who doesnt belongs to any sect really deserves jannah.

silvertongue
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Re: Status of Mohammad and Ali in Bohraism

#54

Unread post by silvertongue » Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:42 am

This is your own individual belief. and I do respect it. However one should not ignore the authentic hadiths in both shia and sunnis. And leave the Hadiths.. Dont u c with your own eyes as to how islam has sects in todays world. It can be seen with a clean naked eye. Forget shia, in sunnis there are many sects. And many pray namaz very differently. They have their own beliefs,. And everyone should respect it. But again this 72 hadith is here as a test for all the muslims. Did the hadith of two weighty things is a sign here or the Hadith of Mubahala or The Ayat of Tatheer. There are many many things.. Anyways.. If thats what u believe than.. May Allah Guide you to the straight path..

incredible
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Re: Status of Mohammad and Ali in Bohraism

#55

Unread post by incredible » Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:18 am

shia and specially bohrias have exploited people from ages by using this hadith about 72 sects, just to keep people believeing that ONLY they are going to jannah.

QURAAN is the biggest and only solid source for a true muslims.

silvertongue
Posts: 578
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:34 am

Re: Status of Mohammad and Ali in Bohraism

#56

Unread post by silvertongue » Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:22 am

Not just Bohris my friend. Every sect claims that.. and talking about sunnis heres a clear reference.. And Iam damn sure you wil ignore this as well..

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) also described them in the following terms: “My ummah will split into seventy-three sects, all of whom will be in Hell except one group.” They said: Who are they, O Messenger of Allaah? He said: “(Those who follow) that which I and my companions follow.” This is mentioned in the hadeeth of ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Amr which was recorded and classed as hasan by al-Tirmidhi (2641). It was also classed as hasan by al-‘Iraaqi in Ahkaam al-Qur’aan (3/432), al-‘Iraaqi in Takhreej al-Ihya’ (3/284) and al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Tirmidhi.

true_bohra
Posts: 719
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:19 am

Re: Status of Mohammad and Ali in Bohraism

#57

Unread post by true_bohra » Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:31 am

incredible wrote:shia and specially bohrias have exploited people from ages by using this hadith about 72 sects, just to keep people believeing that ONLY they are going to jannah.

QURAAN is the biggest and only solid source for a true muslims.
GUYS WHERE ARE YOU HEADING. up till now this forum was just used to abuse the Dai and previous Duaats but please see your limits and how much have you crossed. Why are you dragging the names of the Holy Prophet PBUH and Maula Ali AS into all this. Its quite known to us that what are their status and what importance they carry in Islam but discussing it on this forum is of no use. Let the Shia keep their views and let the Sunnis follow their ideology.

incredible
Posts: 1034
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:44 pm

Re: Status of Mohammad and Ali in Bohraism

#58

Unread post by incredible » Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:35 am

silvertongue wrote:Not just Bohris my friend. Every sect claims that.. and talking about sunnis heres a clear reference.. And Iam damn sure you wil ignore this as well..

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) also described them in the following terms: “My ummah will split into seventy-three sects, all of whom will be in Hell except one group.” They said: Who are they, O Messenger of Allaah? He said: “(Those who follow) that which I and my companions follow.” This is mentioned in the hadeeth of ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Amr which was recorded and classed as hasan by al-Tirmidhi (2641). It was also classed as hasan by al-‘Iraaqi in Ahkaam al-Qur’aan (3/432), al-‘Iraaqi in Takhreej al-Ihya’ (3/284) and al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Tirmidhi.
thats the thing is, ISLAM is universal and there should not be aany sects on the first place.

ONE GOD
ONE PROPHET
ONE BOOK

and all other sectism crap belongs to dustbin.

silvertongue
Posts: 578
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:34 am

Re: Status of Mohammad and Ali in Bohraism

#59

Unread post by silvertongue » Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:43 am

But That ONE GOD, ONE PROPHET & ONE BOOK orders to follow the covenant of GOD. If you truly follow Allah then whats the reason that you dont follow what HE commands. Take Iblees for an example. He said that he wont bow down to a human and would only bow to Allah even though Allah commanded him. The result, exterminated from heaven and the rest we all know what happened. Dont make your examples the same.. Following Allah and Quran simply doesnt make u a muslim unless you act what is commanded by Allah and Quran. With a liberal and patient heart just read the Quran with its true meaning and then you will know what it commands. Ofcourse we wont find How many Rakats to Pray, the antiquates of fasting or how to give zakat and how to perfom hajj arkaans. Thats the beauty of it. If Allah had clearly metioned everything than why the need of the prophet. Explain me this. Allah clearly shows this that the Covenant and superiority lies with his selected Nabi/Rasool/Leader. Simply following Allah and Quran like wahabis wont solve anything unless u wisely think and act according to the commandments.

incredible
Posts: 1034
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:44 pm

Re: Status of Mohammad and Ali in Bohraism

#60

Unread post by incredible » Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:28 am

"Muslamano ka apas men Muttahid rehna" ye bhi namaz, roza, hajj ki tarah ka aik hukm hay.

Aur apas men tafarqa karna ya inteshar phelana, Ye Allah k nazdeek haraam hay.

Musalmano ko ikhtelaaf e raee k sath aik dosrun ko qabool karna chaiye.

Ayatollah Aqeel-ul-Gharavi



READ ABOVE MESSAGE EVERY DAY