Significance of Prophet SAW in Islam.

[james]

Hay James, please prove that Islam was personal property of The Prophet?

It sure does seem that way. Reject that Prophet SAW was a prophet and you cease to be a Muslim . So your entry into the fold of Islam is dependent on your acknowledgement of Prophet Mohammed SAW . Even if you believe in Tawheed, it is wasted if you do inkaar of maqaam of Prophet Mohammed SAW. Comprende ?

The Prophet SAW or rather Allah Ta'ala gave lofty titles to the Prophet SAW and his family . He is the Leader of all Prophets . Ali AS ( his son in law and his cousin ) is the leader of all vicegerents. ( disputed by Muslim First and his ilk . A warning : Don't be fixated on this in your reply ) His daughter Fatema AS is the leader of all women in paradise .
His grandsons Hasan AS and Husain AS are leaders of all the youth in paradise. All kept in the family , eh ?

It does seem that the best of the best titles has been given to Prophet Mohammed SAW and his immediate family . If that is not personal then what is .

Every Muslim ( including Muslim First ) sends Salawat on Prophet Mohammed SAW and his noble progeny . What ? We Muslims have to send salawat on his progeny as well ? Again seems very personal .

Infact , love for Allah Ta'ala is associated/joined at the hip with love for Prophet Mohammed SAW .The channel for loving Allah Ta'ala goes through the act of loving his Prophet SAW. So one cannot claim his love for Allah Ta'ala is accepted if he says he hates the Prophet SAW Nozubillah. ( Did I hear you shouting Shirk! Shirk! )

If that was not enough , the Prophet SAW himself beseeched Allah Ta'ala to " Love those who love Ali . Hate those who hate Ali " . He mentioned along the same lines for Fatema AS as well.

So one can not claim that their love for Allah Ta'ala is accepted if they love only Allah Ta'ala and his Prophet . Even his family is included in the mix . More personal , eh ?

[Muslim First]

James
I am not disputing significance of Prophet SAW in Islam.

I am asking
Was Islam his personal property?

There is difference between significant to Islam and owner of Islam.
I am sure you are smart enough to know difference.

I asked you in other thread

We are talking about Islam

Hay James, please prove that Islam was personal property of The Prophet?
Is it mentioned anywhere in Quran? Did Prophet claim to be his personal property? Was he king of Islam?
If Imamat was required, why not a single Aya in Quran?
Pl ease
Post the verses from Quran with NO additions to the translation and NO Hadeeth to support a certain interpretation of the verse and NO personal commentaries. Do this and you will see how helpless your arguments will be.

[Muslim First]

James

I asked you to

Post the verses from Quran with NO additions to the translation and NO Hadeeth to support a certain interpretation of the verse and NO personal commentaries. Do this and you will see how helpless your arguments will be.

Now you are dancing around.

[james]

James
I am not disputing significance of Prophet SAW in Islam.

I am asking
Was Islam his personal property?

There is difference between significant to Islam and owner of Islam.
I am sure you are smart enough to know difference.

Could you please for the benefit of the others answer , what is Islam without Prophet Mohammed SAW ? Can I be a part of Islam if I hate Rasullah SAW ( Nozubillah ) ?

You should add significance of his progeny when you acknowledge the significance of Prophet SAW . After all , you do send salawat on his progeny too .

[james]

James

I asked you to

Post the verses from Quran with NO additions to the translation and NO Hadeeth to support a certain interpretation of the verse and NO personal commentaries. Do this and you will see how helpless your arguments will be.

Now you are dancing around.

Your nonsensical terms and conditions don't foster healthy debate. Instead it breeds " troll fest " .

Can you please establish Salah ( show how to pray namaz ) by posting verses from Quran with NO additions to the translation and NO Hadeeth to support a certain interpretation of the verse and NO personal commentaries. Do this and you will see how helpless your namaz will be .

[Muslim First]

I will play game with you

I quote from "The Shia Doctrine of Imamat"
http://islamistruth.forumotion.com/t21- ... f-immamate

Now when you ask this from a Shia you receive different sorts of answers (and it is interesting that because the discussion is over the net, usually people cannot co-ordinate among themselves and you will receive responses from Shia that are in contradiction to each other and this in turns shows how baseless are the discussions).

Here are the most popular answers that you get:

1. There are also no verses in Quran to tell us how to pray. We learn some of our duties from Hadeeth not Quran .
2. There are certain verses but you need to look at Hadeeth to understand their true meaning cause we are advised to learn Quran from the Prophet and Hadeeth is his teachings.
3. Long and complicated analysis of certain verses of Quran to prove that even without the help of Hadeeth, they are proving Imaamat.
4. There are no mention of the name of our Prophet in Bible but still Christians need to believe in the Prophet.
5. The verses of Quran are usually general and it is not the style of Quran to name people (i.e. Imaams)
6. Quran says “follow the Prophet”. There are Hadeeth from the Prophet that prove the doctrine of Imaamat and this should be enough for a Muslim if he wants to follow the Prophet.
7. There are not explicit verses because if they were, Quran was in danger of fabrication
8. Finally among the classic scholars of Shia at the old times there were some of them who hold that Quran is changed by Sahabah and that certain verses are removed from it.
9. Where in Quran it is said that Muslims should choose a khalifah by themselves?
10. Show us the names of the prophets between … and … in Quran if you think that every thing should be in Quran .
11. It is a test that’s why it is not mentioned in Quran
12. Arguments that use few verses of Quran out of the context
13. Sunnis believe in Mahdi while he is not mentioned in Quran
14. Imaamat is not the fundamental belief of 12ers, the appointment of Ali is the fundamental of belief.
Now I’m sure most of you realize the weakness of all the above replies but let me write a brief for each of them. Using the same order of numbers:

1. There are also no verses in Quran to tell us how to pray. We learn some of our duties from Hadeeth not Quran :
Prayer has been referred to EXPLICITLY and STRONGLY more than ninety times in Quran . In each of these verses one of the aspects of prayer is covered. Many of these verses talk about the details of prayer, like how to come prepared for prayer (ablution), prayer in travel, etc. Certainly with such a vast and strong reference from Quran , Muslims will refer to the Prophet to know the details. In comparison, the total number of the verses that Shia refers to for Imaamat is no more than 5 or 6 and yet non of them can be interpreted by a non-biased mind in the way that 12ers interpret it. In fact none of them are explicit and strong enough to prove Imaamat doctrine. This is while Prayer is not at all comparable with Imaamat. Imaamat is the fundamental of belief. Shia calls it one of the Osoole Din (Fundamental of religion). Prayer however according to Shia is one of the Foroo’e Din (Subsidiary) Imamat is important enough to convince Shia to separate themselves from the mainstream Islam. If the only difference between Shia and the Mainstream Islam was the way they perform prayer they would never become a sect out of the mainstream Islam.

[james]

I will play game with you

Not interested in games . I thought you were sincere. Instead , you are bored and more interested in trolling .

[james]

There are also no verses in Quran to tell us how to pray

I did find this gem quite miraculously in the mountains of text posted by you . ( Muslim First )

Do you now realize how nonsensical your terms and conditions are ?

[SBM]

There are also no verses in Quran to tell us how to pray

I did find this gem quite miraculously in the mountains of text posted by you . ( Muslim First )

Do you now realize how nonsensical your terms and conditions are ?

But there are verses in Quran about not doing Sajda to anyone except Allah,

[anajmi]

There are also no verses in Quran to tell us how to pray

I did find this gem quite miraculously in the mountains of text posted by you . ( Muslim First )

Do you now realize how nonsensical your terms and conditions are ?

Doesn't look like that Aql of yours is doing a lot of work. That gem is one of the arguments normally given by people like you and that is what the author of that article is saying. And you actually made that argument didn't you? You are nothing if not predictable.

[Muslim First]

Jimmy Baccha

Stay Abde and do not venture out to Islam section.
You will be crushed.

[Muslim First]

Jimmy Bachaa

You keep barking "Usurp" "Usurp"

Read this @
http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/sira/26.htm

According to Aisha, 'When the apostle had become very ill, he said, "Order Abu Bakr to pray with the people!" And I replied, "Abu Bakr is a tender‑hearted man with a weak voice, and he weeps much when he reads the Koran." But he said, "Order him to pray with the people! " I objected only to spare my father, because I knew the people would never wish another man to stand in the prophet's place, and would blame my father for any evil which might occur.'

It has been 1400 years and dogs like jimmy are still barking

Why Hz Ali RA did not lead prayers during a Prophet's illness? He was crown prince according to Shia!!