An excerpt from Aga Khan interview

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wise_guy
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An excerpt from Aga Khan interview

#1

Unread post by wise_guy » Sat Mar 22, 2014 1:30 pm

Interviewer question to Aga Khan: You are celebrated as a champion of pluralism, and you refer to Canada as a global model of pluralism. What can immigrant communities draw from the Ismaili experience coming to Canada in the 1970s when your community was forced out of East Africa?

Answer by Aga Khan: It wasn’t just the political system. It was the banking system. I reached an agreement with Prime Minister [Pierre] Trudeau and President [Jomo] Kenyatta. Another big factor was the role of Canada’s banks, Royal Bank, CIBC and Bank of Nova Scotia, which agreed to lend money to families and entrepreneurs with a financial guarantee from the imamat (his office). What is important is the notion that commercial banks will deal with whole communities as long as they’re not at risk. It’s a wonderful thing that they accepted the imamat’s guarantee.


Compare this to our system. No doubt Aga khanis are so much more prospered than the bohras.

Lets see if James n other die hards comment here

Nafisa
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Re: An excerpt from Aga Khan interview

#2

Unread post by Nafisa » Sun Mar 23, 2014 10:09 am

Aga Khan is a Imam of Universe. His scope of charity has extend towards humanity not community. While Choor Dai Mufaddal is 24 hours looting Dawoodi Community.

Akhtiar Wahid
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Re: An excerpt from Aga Khan interview

#3

Unread post by Akhtiar Wahid » Sun Mar 23, 2014 10:12 am

SKQ saheb also has a similar vision to Aga khan, whatever prosperity he is talking about, only he can lead us to that path no one else. to stay as well structured community we need leaders like him. With Muffy everything will be lost and bohras will be shammed into poverty.

ghulam muhammed
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Re: An excerpt from Aga Khan interview

#4

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:39 pm

Although I don't subscribe to the Aga Khan school of thought as regards religious beliefs but I appreciate his efforts in the manner in which he is taking care of his followers and helping them. Atleast he is not living an opulent lifestyle at the cost of his followers like the Saifee Mahal mafias !

Bohra spring
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Re: An excerpt from Aga Khan interview

#5

Unread post by Bohra spring » Mon Mar 24, 2014 1:38 am

Did anyone ever read Aga Khan went on shikar or had to smuggle cash

Or bought a fancy palace in every part of the globe

Or suggest his women make roti and knit

Or built a hospital where only the rich can afford

Or built as school that was only for Abdes

james
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Re: An excerpt from Aga Khan interview

#6

Unread post by james » Mon Mar 24, 2014 2:45 am

Disclaimer : I have absolutely nothing against Agha Khan.I am presenting the below series of posts to expose the fallacies in the arguments put forward by hypocrites of Bohra sect.

Let's start , shall we :

From a worldly POV ,

Lets take the Ismaili population at 15 million ( 1.5 crore ) , which means that if the average number of persons per family is 5 then there could be 30 lac Ismaili families worldwide. The amount extorted widely ranges between Rs.552/- (the poor Ismailis living in shanties who live below poverty line) to a whooping Rs.21 crore (the ultra rich NRIs). We could put the average amount per family @ Rs.25,000/- X 30 lac families = Rs.7500 crores. Hence the amount extorted over a period of 57 years could safely be Rs.4,27,500 CRORES !

Moreover , the above mentioned amount is considered his personal wealth which is to be used by him and his family. From wikipedia :
In 2007 G. Pascal Zachary of the The New York Times wrote after an interview with the Aga Khan, "Part of the Aga Khan's personal wealth [used by him and his family], which his advisers say exceeds $1 billion [USD], comes from a dizzyingly complex system of tithes[24] that some of the world's 15 million Ismaili Muslims pay him each year [one of which is called dasond,[24][25] which is at least 12.5% of each Nizari Ismaili's gross[24] annual income] – an amount that he will not disclose but which may reach hundreds of millions of dollars annually."[8]
Wait a minute , non disclosure by Agha Khan ? Say it isn't so . No accountability whatsoever to his followers ? I am truly shocked.

More to follow .

james
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Re: An excerpt from Aga Khan interview

#7

Unread post by james » Mon Mar 24, 2014 2:57 am

Agha Khan gives special treatment for those who give him more money .
Every Ismaili is supposed to pay 12 1/2% of his gross income as Dasond. There are thousands of Ismailis in Canada who pay 25% of their gross income to Aga Khan. They are members of an exclusive "Mandli" (group) called 'Mubarak Mandli' or 'One-fourth Mandli'. They hold secret monthly meetings called "One-fourth Majlis" in Jamatkhanas throughout the world. They pay their Dasond of 25% in their Majlis to the Mukhis of their Mandlis and not to the Jamati Mukhis. An Ismaili who is not a member of 'Mubarak Mandli' cannot participate in their Majlises. Aga Khan gives them private audiences and makes special Farmans. He also gives them special blessings. My wife was a member of a Mubarak Mandli. She paid 25% of her personal income, or pocket money received from me and also on the gifts and prizes received by her. My wife would not tell me the Farmans made for 'Mubarak Mandli'. She had a book of 'Private and Confidential Farmans' for her group which I was not allowed to touch. I believe they consider Aga Khan as their "Partner" or vice verse. I am told there is a group above the Mubarak. The members of these groups, I am told, pay 33 1/3% of their income to Aga Khan. I have not met any member of this Mandli because they would not reveal their identity, nor would anyone confirm their existence.

On the other hand, I was a member of "Noorani Mandli" and my wife was not a member. I was not allowed to tell my wife what transpired in our Majlises nor what was revealed by Aga Khan to our private group of elite. To become a member of "Noorani" I had to pay a considerable sum, to the treasurer of Aga Khan, as an entrance fee. I was not issued a receipt for the amount tendered nor a membership card or a certificate. When I attended the first Majlis of my Noorani Mandli, I was surprised to see that practically every well-to-do Ismaili was in the group. Non-members - usually those who could not afford the entrance fees - were not allowed to participate in our Majlises. After the Majlis they were invited to help as volunteers, to serve our lunches and dinners. Virtually an Ismaili is being segregated from another Ismaili or a husband segregated from his wife and vice verse.

Before joining the 'Noorani' I passed through half a dozen smaller segregated Groups or Mandlis; each having their own designated place in the community. After my joining the Noorani Mandli, I was told of a few other Mandlis that were above my group. I have no idea where this hierarchy of elite and super elite Ismailis come to an end. All I know is that the higher the Mandli, the higher the entrance fee and the more segregated you become. Aga Khan gives separate audiences to each Mandli and makes appropriate Farmans. The more you pay the closer you are considered to be to Aga Khan.
http://www.mostmerciful.com/underis4.htm

From same link :
What Aga Khan does with that money or what he is supposed to do is unknown; nor is an Ismaili expected to know.


Emotional blackmail applied for Dasond :
During the period of his Imamat, Aga Khan III had made very strict Farmans for Dasond. Some of his Farmans suggested that losses may occur by fire and sickness if Dasond was not paid in full, and also mentioned that without the Dasond there was no foundation for the religion. An Ismaili cannot attain "Noorani Deedar" or make any progress in his esoteric meditation if he defaults in his payment of Dasond. On the other hand, contributors of Dasonds will be repaid here, and hereafter in the ratio of 1:125,000.
Without paying Dasond , there is no meaning to religion according to Agha Khan . Oh dear.

james
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Re: An excerpt from Aga Khan interview

#8

Unread post by james » Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:06 am

I dare the hypocrites to come out and yell Shirk ! Shirk ! Shirk !

Deedar Sharaf :
An evening with Aga Khan

0n the evening of February 8th 1970, Karim Aga Khan was sitting on a sofa in the Prayer Hall (Jamatkhana) of Muhammadi Girls' Academy Karachi, with his shoes on.

I was standing beside him with my shoes off and nearly 200 resident boarders of the Academy and staff members were sitting on the floor facing the Aga Khan. They all were reciting ‘Salwat’ with their hands clasped and raised.

It is an age old Ismaili custom that whenever and wherever the Aga Khan pays a visit, to give his ‘Deedar’ (glimpse) or 'Mulaqat' (audience), the followers continuously recite 'Salwat' after 'Salwat'. This recitation starts from the moment he steps into the hall and it continues aloud until he settles down on his special chair or sofa. The recited 'Salwat' is in Arabic, which translates; "Peace of Allah be upon Muhammad and the progeny of Muhammad". Karim Aga Khan claims to be a progeny of Prophet Muhammad.

The great irony of this practice is that before the arrival of Aga Khan, an Ismaili missionary would deliver a sermon on the importance of having a 'Deedar’ of Aga Khan. Besides other things he would invariably profess that Allah has manifested Himself or Allah's Noor has manifested itself in the body of Aga Khan. The Zahir (manifested) Imam is a Mazhar (literally copy or manifest) of Allah. His Deedar is the Deedar of Allah. All sins of a 'Momin' (true believer) are washed away with one glimpse (Deedar) of Aga Khan. Both the above concepts, namely; 'Noor of Allah manifested in a human body' and 'Mazhar of Allah' are but, modified versions of the 'Incarnations of God' (Avatars) - a Hindu philosophy Aga Khan is considered to be the tenth incarnation of 'Lord Vishnu' by Ismailis.

james
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Re: An excerpt from Aga Khan interview

#9

Unread post by james » Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:16 am

Must read :

http://mostmerciful.com/?p=347
On February 20, 1910, the late Aga Khan PRONOUNCED in his Farman:
“Heaven and Hell (to give) is in my hand” ‘Book of Khangi Farmans’ page 72.
Upon the death of an Ismaili the members of the Jamaat would say to the relatives and friends; “Mawla marhum ke Jannat nasib kare”
(meaning;Â May the Aga Khan Bestow Paradise to the deceased person).

james
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Re: An excerpt from Aga Khan interview

#10

Unread post by james » Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:53 am

Dastbosi of a Seven Year Old Successor ordered by the 47th Agha Khan.

Thousands kissed the hand of a seven year old kid . Oh dear.
"His name was Muhammad Sultan, also known as Sir Sultan Muhammad Shah, the Aga Khan III, born at Honeymoon Lodge in Karachi on Friday, the 25th Shawal, 1294/November 2, 1877 at 5:30 pm. When the news of his birth was routed to Imam Hasan Ali Shah in Bombay, he said: "Name him Muhammad Sultan. He will be a Sultan (emperor) in the world. His period will witness wonderful events, and will earn distinguished position in the world."

On January 14, 1885, the Imam took his son and successor in the Bombay Jamatkhana and made him seated on the throne and said the jamat to perform his dastbosi. Thousand of persons participated in the ceremony.
Chanta Ceremony

Agha Khan forgives sins by sprinkling water on face of his followers.
In Karachi, Pakistan I had paid a sum of rupees fifty one into the treasury of Aga Khan and taken my turn standing in a long queue for a special "Chhatta" (forgiving of sins by sprinkling holy water), by Karim Aga Khan. One by one, each Ismaili who had paid the prescribed amount for "Mahadan Ka Chhatta" (Day of Judgment's Chhatta) and was of over the age of 45 years, approached the Aga Khan. He sprinkled holy water on the face of each and said: "I have forgiven your sins". On the Day of Judgment, we would not be questioned about the forgiven sins.
He also takes money for sprinkling water. Oh dear .

anajmi
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Re: An excerpt from Aga Khan interview

#11

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:01 am

Oh dear. The Qulfi is now going to melt. :wink:

james
Posts: 586
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Re: An excerpt from Aga Khan interview

#12

Unread post by james » Mon Mar 24, 2014 12:38 pm

This thread existed from Saturday. Yet it gets moved only on Monday following my series of posts. The timing is dubious to say the least. :mrgreen:

james
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Re: An excerpt from Aga Khan interview

#13

Unread post by james » Mon Mar 24, 2014 12:49 pm

Lets pay our full attention to Excommunication by Agha Khan.Why were they excommunicated ? Didn't pay money of course !
In 1829 one Hubbib Ibrahim, the father of Ahmed Hubibhoy (the most active and influential of the present plaintiffs) resisted the customary payment of Dasond. The Imam, to overcome this opposition, sent his emissary Mirza Abool Cassim, accompanied by his maternal grandmother, Marie Bibi who harangued the Jamat in support of the claims of their Moorshed, This controversy led to the bill of 1829 spoken of earlier. However, in 1830 Ibrahim and his partisans numbering 12 and called "BARBHAIE" were outcasted. In 1835 they, on their own petition, asked to be readmitted and on the direction of the Imam were readmitted on conditions laid down.
Agha Khan was also slapped with a lawsuit by his followers. One of the points of the matter :
(4) That the first defendant, The Imam may be restrained from interfering in the management of the trust property and affairs of the Khoja community, or in the election and appointment of Mukhi and Kamadhias, from excommunicating any Khojas, or depriving them of the various privileges pertaining to membership; from celebrating marriages in the Jamatkhana; from demanding or receiving from any Khoja any oblation, cess, offerings etc. in the alleged spiritual or temporal capacity of him, the first defendant, the Imam.
Murder ! :shock:
In 1850 an unfortunate incident took place at MAHIM jamatkhana where as a result of the feuds four Khojas of the Barbhaie party were murdered. As a result 19 Khojas were tried in the Supreme Court in 1850 and 4 were capitally sentenced and hanged.
http://www.ismaili.net/heritage/node/29458

For those who don't want to read the full article and are only interested in the outcome of the lawsuit :
The decree the Court granted was:

"That this suit be dismissed, as against the first defendant, His Highness Aga Khan as against Allarukia Soomal and his co-answering defendants as against Asso Gangjee, with costs as to all the said defendants, to be paid, by the relators and the plaintiffs".

wise_guy
Posts: 700
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:52 pm

Re: An excerpt from Aga Khan interview

#14

Unread post by wise_guy » Mon Mar 24, 2014 1:35 pm

@James: So, by all of your above posts, you are showing the happenings in Ismaili jamat. Same or similar things happen in bohra jamaat n dawats. You mean that Aga khanis are on the same lines as bohras.

I guess, James has hit the axe in his own feet by highlighting the Aga Khanis.

salaar
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Re: An excerpt from Aga Khan interview

#15

Unread post by salaar » Mon Mar 24, 2014 2:58 pm

wise guy why dont you stand at one point initially your lot started the debate trying to degrade our system in comparison to agha khanis now when james slipped down your pyjama you are running out of game hehehehe.......................

Qutbi-Hero
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Re: An excerpt from Aga Khan interview

#16

Unread post by Qutbi-Hero » Mon Mar 24, 2014 5:24 pm

anajmi wrote:Oh dear. The Qulfi is now going to melt. :wink:
Qulfi lol! Back to your old routine of name-calling again eh Ana - I'm glad you're so frustrated LOL!

Why would I melt? Do you think the millions of Ismailis would melt too? How about the Aga Khan himself lol!
Yep, me and all of them would be devastated because some insignificant nobody posted a dipshit website on an irrelevant little forum... LOL!

Anyway, the Ismaili community is well known for it's differences, and the immense wealth of the Aga Khan - so what... they are still "the most advanced, educated, intelligent, generous, kind, sophisticated, prosperous, forward-thinking and peace-loving community in the entire Ummah, and live in peace and harmony all over the world" - in short, they are Awesome!
(As will be the Cool Qutbis in the years to come... man, it's gonna be so Sweet!)

PS: The website Jimbo is quoting from is infamous for being Anti-Ismaili - not dissimilar to you being infamous for being a sad and lonely nobody! :mrgreen: )

PPS: Mr James, why have you suddenly decided to crap on our fellow Shia brothers - instead of your previous hobby of crapping on our mutual enemies, the resident Shia-Hating Wahhabis like Anajmi? I thought you were a smart guy dude... or is SBM right when he keeps calling you a Monkey Brain lol?

PPPS: Aga Khan Zindabad!

salim
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Re: An excerpt from Aga Khan interview

#17

Unread post by salim » Mon Mar 24, 2014 10:36 pm

Dear James,

I am not trying prove that Aga khanis are better than Bohras. We all have issue which we should fix it. I just wanted to put my point of view here about ismailis.

All the above references you have provided is coming from the source not at all trust worthy. It is like copying those 100's of fake Ayats and Hadits from KKK fundamentalist website, or RSS, VHP websites and proving Islam is wrong. You are doing the same thing with Ismailis.

With your posts it feels that you are targeting 3 thing - 1. Dashod 2. Excommunication 3. Special meeting privilege to a few

1. Dashod, while important, is 100% voluntarily paid . No one knows how much doshod one pays. And if you pay zero dashod no one will ask you why you are not paying as no one will ever know. When I pay dashond I put it in a box where all other people punt it. So no one know who is putting how much. One of my friend has recently started paying dashood and he never paid a single penny in his whole life. No one know, I know it because he told me.

2. Excommunication - You are telling stories of 18th century. To a history chapter everyone has their own version of story. In last 50 years, there was only one person excommunicated, that too after he left Ismaili religion. The reason was political than religious.

3. Aga Khan gives special meeting opportunity to different group of peoples - Yes there are many groups with in member of Ismaili religion. The way these groups work is, you go there and you promise to dedicate your time (depending upon your talent), this time usually ranges from a few hrs to many years to serve poor and needy. Once you join it you are not allowed to do a boastful talks. James has taken very odd example of one of this group that dedicates 25% of all their earning to upliftment of 3rd world people via Aga Khan Foundation. But there is no force in this. Once you join it you are still NOT oblige to give 25%. Even if you don't give a single penny, no one will ask you anything. As this giving is between you and Allah. No one comes to you to collect money. No one keeps record of who is paying what. And no one oversees you when you pay. I do not know anyone who is in this group. But this group do exist. This is just one extreme group that deals with Money but there are many different groups. Like there is a doctors association that promises to see at least 30 under privilege patients for free every month. There is a group of psychiatrist whose job is to deal with youth and keep them away from drugs and other anti social habits. There is a group of Youth whose job is to make sure youth stay healthy and are in sports. There is a group of bankers who make sure no talented child is left out without getting proper education. They give half grant half loan to these children. There is a group who take care of all diabetics. There is a group who take care of all elders and make sure elderly needs are fulfilled. There is a group of alumni of ivy leagues (top universities) that help kids in deciding what subject they should select for their future and what universities they can apply to. There is a group who help small business with their difficulties. There is a group of HR people who help people in learning job skills. And there are 100's of more groups.

When Aga Khan visit countries, sometimes he also pay his visit to some of these groups. For example when Aga Khan visited Canada he meet with a group of professionals who dedicated some part of their life for the upliftment of people of Afghanistan who were suffering from Taliban/US war atrocities. Why should he not meet with them? I don't think there should be any issue with it. When he meet these group he also guide them. And these group love it.

salim
Posts: 406
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 4:01 am

Re: An excerpt from Aga Khan interview

#18

Unread post by salim » Mon Mar 24, 2014 10:59 pm

With above post I am not trying to say that everything is green here. I am just refuting the claims.
There are tons of issues in Ismailis as well. With all these initiatives still not every one in developed world have health insurance. I know this group is working so hard to make sure everyone has insurance, but they are not successful. Not everyone who is getting good education. Even with all these groups, ismailis are not as much successful in helping ismailis and others in troubled zones like Syria, Afghanistan, Iran, Lebanon and Ukraine. There is still poverty there. There are many groups that are not meritocratic and are too mediocre. There is not enough unity among Ismailis. There is politics in many of these groups.

:wink: :wink:
Since most of the institutions are based on help from "Volunteers", sometimes things go very slow. And some times as volunteers change, wheels get reinvented and sometimes volunteers believe so much in "Charity starts at home" that they only want to help their own family members even when they are on a post to server not only Ismailis but entire Umah. And above all as the community is getting more and more professional, one thing that professionals don't have is time. As there is "no compulsion in Islam", so people get away by not dedicating enough time. And then there is Pluralism where you have to pay respect to everyone and when you take care of everyone, sometimes no one gets taken care of properly.
:wink: :wink:

james
Posts: 586
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 am

Re: An excerpt from Aga Khan interview

#19

Unread post by james » Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:05 am

Qutbi-Hero wrote:
anajmi wrote:Oh dear. The Qulfi is now going to melt. :wink:
Qulfi lol! Back to your old routine of name-calling again eh Ana - I'm glad you're so frustrated LOL!

Why would I melt? Do you think the millions of Ismailis would melt too? How about the Aga Khan himself lol!
Yep, me and all of them would be devastated because some insignificant nobody posted a dipshit website on an irrelevant little forum... LOL!

Anyway, the Ismaili community is well known for it's differences, and the immense wealth of the Aga Khan - so what... they are still "the most advanced, educated, intelligent, generous, kind, sophisticated, prosperous, forward-thinking and peace-loving community in the entire Ummah, and live in peace and harmony all over the world" - in short, they are Awesome!
(As will be the Cool Qutbis in the years to come... man, it's gonna be so Sweet!)

PS: The website Jimbo is quoting from is infamous for being Anti-Ismaili - not dissimilar to you being infamous for being a sad and lonely nobody! :mrgreen: )

PPS: Mr James, why have you suddenly decided to crap on our fellow Shia brothers - instead of your previous hobby of crapping on our mutual enemies, the resident Shia-Hating Wahhabis like Anajmi? I thought you were a smart guy dude... or is SBM right when he keeps calling you a Monkey Brain lol?

PPPS: Aga Khan Zindabad!
Qutbi-Hero

I maintain I have nothing against Agha Khan or Ismailis. They can believe whatever they want to believe and have whatever customs they want to have. It is not my concern. Downgrading or elevating their community leader or his followers has no bearing whatsoever on my Iman . Like I said in my disclaimer , the sole reason for my series of posts were to expose the hypocrisy of the dissidents against the Bohra sect .They were using the name of Agha Khan in order to further alienate the readers against Bohra sect. And look how the author of this thread is twisting and turning and changing goalposts. I was goaded into this thread by wise_guy. Prima Facie , it seems Agha Khan has amassed enormous amount of wealth from his followers. Do I give a shit ? Do I lose sleep over it ? Absolutely not .

edit : corrected a typo.
Last edited by james on Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

james
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Re: An excerpt from Aga Khan interview

#20

Unread post by james » Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:31 am

salim wrote:Dear James,


All the above references you have provided is coming from the source not at all trust worthy. It is like copying those 100's of fake Ayats and Hadits from KKK fundamentalist website, or RSS, VHP websites and proving Islam is wrong. You are doing the same thing with Ismailis.
salim

Your analogy is out of line. I have posted from wikipedia , ex-Ismaili Akbarally Meherally's website , ismaili.net.I have not put too much focus on the Ismaili doctrines or scriptures. The focus was on actual customs and rituals. You can by all means dismiss the testimony from an ex-Ismaili.As non-Ismailis are not allowed in the Jamatkhanas,they have no way of knowing except by a testimony who has been there,done that. You can help refute that instead of comparing my posts to 100's of fake ayahs and hadiths .
an Ismaili missionary would deliver a sermon on the importance of having a 'Deedar’ of Aga Khan. Besides other things he would invariably profess that Allah has manifested Himself or Allah's Noor has manifested itself in the body of Aga Khan. The Zahir (manifested) Imam is a Mazhar (literally copy or manifest) of Allah. His Deedar is the Deedar of Allah. All sins of a 'Momin' (true believer) are washed away with one glimpse (Deedar) of Aga Khan.
Is the above line of thinking acceptable ? Or has Akberally Meherally picked it out of thin air ?
nearly 200 resident boarders of the Academy and staff members were sitting on the floor facing the Aga Khan. They all were reciting ‘Salwat’ with their hands clasped and raised.

It is an age old Ismaili custom that whenever and wherever the Aga Khan pays a visit, to give his ‘Deedar’ (glimpse) or 'Mulaqat' (audience), the followers continuously recite 'Salwat' after 'Salwat'
Are the Ismaili followers told to pray salawat when in hazrat of their Imam ? I find absolutely nothing wrong in reciting salawat and folding hands.Did Akberally lie about this ?

What Aga Khan does with that money or what he is supposed to do is unknown; nor is an Ismaili expected to know.
Is same line of thinking enforced on the Ismaili followers ? Does Agha Khan give full accounts to his followers and Akberally lied about the above as well ? It is absolutely fine with me if there is no accountability in Ismaili sect. Moreover , I feel it should be that way.

More points , later.

salim
Posts: 406
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 4:01 am

Re: An excerpt from Aga Khan interview

#21

Unread post by salim » Tue Mar 25, 2014 1:44 am

Dear James,

This person is not telling the truth. He is making up stories. It is like Science Fiction movies or a Sudo science movies. Where they use the terminology of science but it is not science. Here he is using ismaili terminology, but whatever he is saying is just so he can create a rift between different communities.
james wrote:
an Ismaili missionary would deliver a sermon on the importance of having a 'Deedar’ of Aga Khan. Besides other things he would invariably profess that Allah has manifested Himself or Allah's Noor has manifested itself in the body of Aga Khan. The Zahir (manifested) Imam is a Mazhar (literally copy or manifest) of Allah. His Deedar is the Deedar of Allah. All sins of a 'Momin' (true believer) are washed away with one glimpse (Deedar) of Aga Khan.
Is the above line of thinking acceptable ? Or has Akberally Meherally picked it out of thin air ?
The way quote is written is not true at all. We do not believe that Allah has manifested himself in Aga Khan. We believe that Aga Khan is Allah's blessings to us. We do not even believe close to what he said. We also believe that Aga Khan can do mistakes. Someone recently posted an article from canada, where write an ismaili was saying it was mistake of Aga khan to just accept invitation from the party. We all love Aga Khan so much that he is more than our parent to us. But he is not God. He is wasila not allah.
We do not believe that Aga Khan is copy of Allah. That is not true. He is guide to Allah, he is proof of Allah.
I think it is opposite, before Deedar usual sermon talk about how least important is the deedar of Aga Khan and real happiness can be achieved by improving your deeds and following the guidance, rather than looking at the body. Because of their love towards Aga Khan ismailis become very emotionals at the time of deedar and again and again they were reminded in sermons that what is the use of being emotional if you are deeds are not good.
This is true. In presence of Aga Khan we recite Salwat. By reciting Salwat we are asking Allah to sending his blessing on Prophet and his progeny and we believe Aga Khan is his progeny to we are praying for him to Allah. Now why would you ask blessing for Aga Khan when you believe Aga Khan is Allah. But we believe he is like a river who will take us to Allah which is ocean.

salim
Posts: 406
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 4:01 am

Re: An excerpt from Aga Khan interview

#22

Unread post by salim » Tue Mar 25, 2014 1:57 am

What Aga Khan does with that money or what he is supposed to do is unknown; nor is an Ismaili expected to know.
This is not true. When we participate in giving money, we exactly know where the money is going. One think we don't have as much of control is to change the allocation. We can't go to them and say - hey, can you change the program and let's spend 10% of the money on early childhood rather than spending that 10% for college admission help. This is possible as well, but then it takes too much muscles flexing. Usually it is agreed that if you don't like where funds are going you do not give. No one is forcing you to give. Even without giving you are as much of an ismaili as you are with giving.

Another thing, you can't go to Aga Khan ask him to give you accounts every time. The institution try their best to put as much of accounting information as possible for all Jamat. But if you are donating you can get more details for sure.

Yes and there are some people, who donate and ask the institution to use it in wherever they want to without asking any questions. But most of the people when they donate, they donate to a particular program.

Either ways - no donations are compulsory. You give or you don't is between you and your Allah. No one can come in between that.
Last edited by salim on Tue Mar 25, 2014 2:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

salim
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Re: An excerpt from Aga Khan interview

#23

Unread post by salim » Tue Mar 25, 2014 2:12 am

Again I am not here to convert people to ismaili religion. There are tons of issues in ismailis, but the issues you are pointing are just crafted by someone who knows the vocabulary and he wrote it to create a rift between communities. There are many things that Bohras are more successful then ismailis. Ismailis needs to learn more. Bohras do not have as much of diversity, so there is strong unity. Ismailis are very diverse, so we have to bring unity in diversity, which is a challenge in itself. For example if Ismailis have to implement kowmi Libas, it will take decades. Another example is Community kitchen. All of sudden one day Kothar can ask everyone to get their tiffen from community kitchen and wallah it is done. This is not possible in ismailis. Aga Khan Foundation is not as powerful as Kothar. To implementing something like this Aga Khan Founds will take years. Aga khan foundation do have their own strength.

james
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Re: An excerpt from Aga Khan interview

#24

Unread post by james » Tue Mar 25, 2014 3:21 am

salim wrote: 1. Dashod, while important, is 100% voluntarily paid . No one knows how much doshod one pays. And if you pay zero dashod no one will ask you why you are not paying as no one will ever know. When I pay dashond I put it in a box where all other people punt it. So no one know who is putting how much. One of my friend has recently started paying dashood and he never paid a single penny in his whole life. No one know, I know it because he told me.

2. Excommunication - You are telling stories of 18th century. To a history chapter everyone has their own version of story. In last 50 years, there was only one person excommunicated, that too after he left Ismaili religion. The reason was political than religious.


I feel you are being dishonest when you say dasond is voluntary and it is ok if one doesn't pay. One more point I have picked up on your dishonesty. You have written 4 different types of spelling mistakes for the word " dasond ". ( dashod,doshod,dashond,dashood ) I have my theory as to why.But I will let it slide in the interest of conversation. To come to the point , here are the words of Agha Khan :

"The Imam's word on the Faith is taken as an absolute rule. Every Ismaili is expected to accept it. The Community always follows very closely the personal way of thinking of the Imam. It's one of the particularities of Ismailis. An Ismaili who did not obey My word in matters of Faith, would not be excommunicated, he would still be a Muslim. He simply would no longer be a member of the Jamath - the Community of Ismaili Muslims. "One has to make a very careful distinction here between worldly and religious matters. An Ismaili may ask My advice on a worldly problem, then not accept it. But if he were to ignore the Imam's decision on matters of Faith, the Community pressures on him would be very strong."

I believe the above words speak in favor of Excommunication and as dasond is related to faith , Imam's word is absolute. There are no two ways about it .

Historical precedent is important . You cannot dismiss it just because it is from 18th century.

salim
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Re: An excerpt from Aga Khan interview

#25

Unread post by salim » Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:45 pm

Dear James,
I do agree that I have issues with spelling. I apologize for it.

I am not lying. In Aga khani religion when you pay Dashond, no one knows how much you are paying, except Allah. There is no compulsion at all. There are no records of who pays what is kept except for filling government taxes. Privacy is very strictly followed. Even the Amil and Shaik (version of ismaili leader) won't able to see how pays what. I agree there are a very few ismailis who let others know before they pay so that they can get the credit. But if you don't want anyone to know, no one will know. Till recently one of my friend never paid a single penny in his whole life, and no one knew, I know it because he told me this. No one will ever ask you to pay Dasond.

You can confirm this with any ismaili. If I am lying may Allah send his curse on me.

salim
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Re: An excerpt from Aga Khan interview

#26

Unread post by salim » Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:52 pm

james wrote:
an Ismaili missionary would deliver a sermon on the importance of having a 'Deedar’ of Aga Khan. Besides other things he would invariably profess that Allah has manifested Himself or Allah's Noor has manifested itself in the body of Aga Khan. The Zahir (manifested) Imam is a Mazhar (literally copy or manifest) of Allah. His Deedar is the Deedar of Allah. All sins of a 'Momin' (true believer) are washed away with one glimpse (Deedar) of Aga Khan.
Is the above line of thinking acceptable ? Or has Akberally Meherally picked it out of thin air ?
The way quote is written is not true at all. We do not believe that Allah has manifested himself in Aga Khan. We believe that Aga Khan is Allah's blessings to us. We do not even believe close to what he said. We also believe that Aga Khan can do mistakes. Someone recently posted an article from canada, where write an ismaili was saying it was mistake of Aga khan to just accept invitation from the party. We all love Aga Khan so much that he is more than our parent to us. But he is not God. He is wasila not allah.
he Zahir (manifested) Imam is a Mazhar (literally copy or manifest) of Allah
We do not believe that Aga Khan is copy of Allah. That is not true. He is guide to Allah, he is proof of Allah.
an Ismaili missionary would deliver a sermon on the importance of having a 'Deedar’ of Aga Khan.
I think it is opposite, before Deedar usual sermon talk about how least important is the deedar of Aga Khan and real happiness can be achieved by improving your deeds and following the guidance, rather than looking at the body. Because of their love towards Aga Khan, some ismailis become very emotional at the time of deedar. But again and again they were reminded in sermons that there is no of being emotional if your deeds are not good.
nearly 200 resident boarders of the Academy and staff members were sitting on the floor facing the Aga Khan. They all were reciting ‘Salwat’ with their hands clasped and raised.

It is an age old Ismaili custom that whenever and wherever the Aga Khan pays a visit, to give his ‘Deedar’ (glimpse) or 'Mulaqat' (audience), the followers continuously recite 'Salwat' after 'Salwat'
This is true. In presence of Aga Khan we recite Salwat. By reciting Salwat we are asking Allah to sending his blessing on Prophet and his progeny and we believe Aga Khan is his progeny. The thing to be noted here is on one had this person says we call Aga Khan Allah and again he is saying that we pray "For" Aga Khan to Allah. How is that possible. Now why would you ask blessing for Aga Khan when you believe Aga Khan is Allah. We believe he is the Imam, he is like a river who will take us to Allah which is ocean.

Muslim First
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Re: An excerpt from Aga Khan interview

#27

Unread post by Muslim First » Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:40 pm

Salim
The way quote is written is not true at all. We do not believe that Allah has manifested himself in Aga Khan. We believe that Aga Khan is Allah's blessings to us. We do not even believe close to what he said. We also believe that Aga Khan can do mistakes. Someone recently posted an article from canada, where write an ismaili was saying it was mistake of Aga khan to just accept invitation from the party. We all love Aga Khan so much that he is more than our parent to us. But he is not God. He is wasila not allah.
From Ismaili.net
MHI in 1975 approved a resolution at a Paris Conference of Ismaili leadership. Two major resolutions came from this Conference.

The first was that the concept of God in the Ismaili Tariqah should be taught with emphasis on the absolute transcendence of God aligned with Surah Ikhlas of the Qur'an. As such, God is not a *person* or a *personal being* in Ismaili thought.

In the history of Isma'ili thought, the Personal aspect of God [known as the Divine Names and Attributes] were seen as belonging not to God's Essence but to a secondary level of reality i.e. Universal Intellect [Nur of Imamat].

The second resolution was that the Imam is to be explained as the "mazhar" of God and the relationship between God and the Imam to be related to varying levels of inspiration and communication between God and man.

I have seen most of my spiritual brothers that easily and directly say that Imam is God, but I guess we have to make the distinction of God Himself and His place of manifestation [locus of Manifestation] or "Mazhar".

Salim Bhai
Explain what is this Mazar of Allah
How does Allah's noor get into only one person?
Remember " Adam ko Khuda mat kaho, Adam Khuda Nahi-Lekin Khuda ke Noor se Adam Juda nahi"

Muslim First
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Re: An excerpt from Aga Khan interview

#28

Unread post by Muslim First » Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:58 pm

Salim
This is true. In presence of Aga Khan we recite Salwat. By reciting Salwat we are asking Allah to sending his blessing on Prophet and his progeny and we believe Aga Khan is his progeny. The thing to be noted here is on one had this person says we call Aga Khan Allah and again he is saying that we pray "For" Aga Khan to Allah. How is that possible. Now why would you ask blessing for Aga Khan when you believe Aga Khan is Allah. We believe he is the Imam, he is like a river who will take us to Allah which is ocean.
From Ismaili.net
Ya Ali Madad;
Prophet Mohamed (pbuh) was sent to delver message of God and GLORIFY N PRAISE OF ALLAH by preaching and sermons and some of it MAY BE in physical act of offering prayers.

Does the word glorify/praise specifically and legally means Salaat,rakat.namaz,etc. and nothing else.
I WILL CHALLENGE IT LEGALLY.
Allah has said Quran it self is in Baatin.

None again NONE of the scholars were ever blessed with Baatin who have translated the Quran.
Here it is simple layman's language an instruction to Prophet Mohammed
how he should go about preaching (GLORIFYING) as a full time preacher with NOT EXACT TIMING but in periods of the day n night for spreading PIAGHAM of ALI=lah+Allah.

This Ayat was specifically for Prophet on how to go about the mandate given to HIM and not an executive order to mankind to mimic the prophet.

NONE OF THE QUACKS HAVE UNDERSTOOD THE WORDS OR THE CO RELATION OF THE THE WORDS.
If a boss of the company gives specific high level instruction to the Manager,It does not mean it for the all the staff in that company under the manager. THE WHOLE WORLD IS IGNORANT AND ARE MAKING THOSE FALSE N INCORRECT TRANSLATION AS BENCHMARK TO EXPRESS ONE'S CLEVERNESS.

the job n absolute mandate of prophet was to glorify Allah in many hours of living time.
His act of praise and glorifying is taken as so called Namaz by ABSOLUTE FO0LS (DISASTERS) on this earth.

THEY ARE UNFIT EVEN TO BE GIVEN QURAN to read iT IN the first place.
if any Ayat is explained by a Baatin graced entity like the Pirs,Khusraw
and likes of Rumi n Shams Tabriz.( these i would call Rasikunfililm)

Just compare one Ayat explained by them and one done by bunch of stinky quacks, The difference is visible.
This is my firm and irrevocable take on on Ayat 20:130.
IT IS NOT NOT AT ALL AN EXECUTIVE ORDER TO MANKIND a normal being but A SPECIFIC INSTRUCTION TO PROPHET not a normal but super being person to execute his duties.
In word of Imam SMS.to disregard the braying and barking of the Zahiris

Muslim First
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Re: An excerpt from Aga Khan interview

#29

Unread post by Muslim First » Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:16 pm

From Ismaili.net
His act of praise and glorifying is taken as so called Namaz by ABSOLUTE FO0LS (DISASTERS) on this earth.
See what Ismaili Aga Khani think about those who do Namaaz?

salim
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Re: An excerpt from Aga Khan interview

#30

Unread post by salim » Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:35 pm

Muslim First wrote:
From Ismaili.net
His act of praise and glorifying is taken as so called Namaz by ABSOLUTE FO0LS (DISASTERS) on this earth.
See what Ismaili Aga Khani think about those who do Namaaz?
I disagree with them.