THE MAJOR DISPUTE IS not ahlebayt

[phdguy]

The dispute BETWEEN us was and is never about the progeny of prophet pbuh(Ahlebayt) . The dispute IS about who has the authentic teachings of the progeny preserved to this day. Only a claim is not enough. We have a meticulous science of hadith which ensures that all sayings of the Arch Ahlebayt propeht pbuh have reached us "AS IS". Shias esp Ismailis have no such science due to their reliance on the fanciful theory of Infallible Imams, esotericism and taweel. Its a good theory but it has been proved to not work as the Imam himself has disappared\killed\defaulted etc and one Imam Moiz even converted to coptic Christianity and his baptistry is present to this day , with each sect claiming they have the correct imam or representative. Even daimul Islam is a poor work when it come to sourcing its claims. And various Ismaili sects have difference of opinions on this book itself.
The problem with Daimul Islam is the absence of Ilmul Rijaal (history of narrators) in Daimul Islam. DaimulIslam is just a book of fiqh and not a book of hadith.People do find fiqh interesting but the fiqh should be based on authentic hadith.
Daimul Islam does not even attempt to go into that direction of validating the hadith.It is not even in the domain of a fiqh book to go into this detail. The hadith quoted in daimul Islam dont have the chain of narrators or the reference base. Infact Ismaili Islam does not have a single book of validated hadith. Isna ashari do have it.
Do you know the Ismaili sect aga khani khoja is the only sect which has an unbroken chain of Imamate traceable to the final prophet pbuh to this day. But you see they have abolished namaaz, hajj etc and believe the Imam as mazhar of Allah swt. Hence you have to accept that even the proven descendants of the prophet pbuh can fall into error and misguidance as it is only Allah who guides. Hence rather then showing geneologies we should do research on who has the authentic teachings of ahlebayt preserved via an unbroken chain reaching to the prophet pbuh.
Infact there are more fabricated hadith then sahih hadith. This is where the science of hadith comes as Allah says "We have, Without doubt, sent down the Zikr(Zikr of Rasulallah): and we will assuredly guard it (from corruption) (Qur'an 15:9)" . The scientific scrutiny of hadith enables us to distinguish the false hadith from the sahih ones. There are very stringent criteria and science to accept or reject a hadith

[salaar]

during haj season a friend of mine who lives in jeddah narrated me this tale, he said that he was passing from a market where there were some vegetable shops one of the vegetable shop owner started shouting in arabic whose translation iam giving, " Rasoolallah said It is mandatory for somebody who comes for haj to eat onions" after a while a group of people gathered there to buy onions from him, my friend was standing there watching the whole tamasha at a distance, he said that although he could not hear what the shopkeepers were talking but they were laughing sarcastically after making fool of the crowd, my whole point is what hadees are you talking abt, the hadees quoted by people like Abu Huraira, ..........................

[phdguy]

What is hadith?
ALLAH makes WAHI to prophet (pbuh) and than the prophet delivers it to his people, Hence hadith is the words of prophet and indirectly words of ALLAH which is delivered to us through prophet(pbuh).
Quran is the wahi of ALLAH but hadith is also the wahi of ALLAH and both are from the words of prophet(pbuh)
NOW you cannot leave hadith BECAUSE if YOU would leave hadith than you cannot follow shariat .In Quran there are orders of ALLAH and their implementation method is discused in hadith
for example ....
a) NAMAZ KAIM KRO .... HOW? MENTION IN HADITH
b) ZAKAT DO .............. HOW? WHEN? HOW MUCH? DETAIL IN HADITH
c) NAMAZ-E- EID ............... FROM HADITH
d) NAMAZ-E-JANAZA .............. FROM HADITH
e) GUSAL ................... HOW? FROM HADITH
f) HAJJ................. HOW? MENTION IN HADITH
g) TAYAMUM ........ HOW? MENTION IN HADITH
h) ROZA ........ TIME? HOW MUCH? DUA FOR AFTAR AND SAHRI
i) OKAT-E- NAMAZ ............. WHERE? HADITH
FABRICATED HADITH
====
Yes it is correct that many of the hadiths are false and lies because of the liars that wanted to impure this religion but the purifying work has been done by scholars of hadith who spent their whole life in this work to seperate the lies from the truth and this science is called the science of hadith which allows us to faithfully remove all the weak hadith by examining the biographies of the narrotors and chain of narrations.
As far as HAZRAT ABU HURAYAR(RA) is concerned lets have a look towards the most authentic boooks according to the all scholars of ummah (ijma e ummah)..
SAHIH BUKHARI .... total hadees 7275 ...... Hazrat Abu Hurayra (RA) 446 hadees (without repitions)
SAHIH MUSLIM .... total hadees 4000 ......... HAzrat Abu Hurayra(RA) 98 hadees that are differnt frm Bukhari
446+98= 544
this is the total number of hadees according to the most authentic books of hadith and I dont think so that this is more than the time HE(ra) has spent with HAZRAT MUHAMMAD(SAW) .
the quran was not revealed every day , 6236 verse of quran means that an average of 20 verse per month. Hence both Quran and hadith were preserved through memorizarion. Of the 5000+ hadith that Abu Hurairah RA narrated, less than ten were narrated by him alone (all the remaining were narrated by other companions as well.)
It is logically impossible that he made up 5000 hadith and somehow other companions also made up the exact same 5000
.......................... Memory ........................
Arab cultures at that time were narrative cultures and people as a result in ancient Arabia had an amazing memory. If someone can memorize the Qur'an in 6 months, what is wrong with memorizing that many hadeeths in 3 years?
Abu Huraira (r.a) could narrate alot of ahadith because the prophet s.a.w had supplicated for him (Abu Huraira r.a) after Abuu Huraira (r.a) had complained of his memory,
"Narrated Abu Huraira: I said, ‘O Allaah’s Apostle! I hear many narrations from you but I forget them.’ He said, ‘Spread your covering sheet.’ I spread my sheet and he moved both his hands as if scooping something and emptied them in the sheet and said, ‘Wrap it.’ I wrapped it round my body, and since then I have never forgotten a single Hadith."
Bukhari

[salaar]

for us we believe that after RasoolAllah we were not left to look around in suspicion we were never left stranded, Ali Maula and his sons were there to look after the ummat for namaz roza zakat haj namaz eid ghusal mayyat and all other aspects we were guided by them, yes ofcourse hadees were there but very selective ones which were from dependable sources like Abi Zar Ghaffari, Salman Farsi and Jabir bin Abdullah because during the period of RasoolAllah there were few friends and many enemies who were bound to take revenge of their forefathers and did fitnat where ever they could however they kept their faces hidden until Siffin when they came out openly in the enemity of Maula Ali, some among such enemies are those who had spent years with RasoolAllah but when they got the opportunity they exposed themselves.

[anajmi]

for us we believe that after RasoolAllah we were not left to look around in suspicion we were never left stranded,

Well, half the dawoodi bohras look at SKQ with suspicion and the remaining look at SMB with suspicion. A few generations back, the Alvis looked at dawoodis with suspicion and the dawoodis looked at alvis with suspicion. You want me to go on?

[salaar]

we look at you with suspicion whether you ever had any roots with the bohras or not ?

[anajmi]

Doesn't matter. What I said proves that what you stated was false. Your entire premise that there is no suspicion, can hence be dismissed. And that has wider implications for those with a capacity to think.

[salaar]

what about your barelvi maaliki shaafayee and humbli, they are cutting each others throat what are the roots of suspicion between them arent they all like your breed

[phdguy]

Barelvi is found in majority in India and bohri mohalla too, it is a heretical sect. Which has almost the same Aqeedah as others like shia , they pray to 1000s of odd saints like "gosh pak" , "khawaja pak" etc . They also worship the dead by invoking them for help like dua to khawaja\ali etc.

Maaliki , shafayee, hanafi ,hanbali are 4 madhabs representing 4 Ahlus Sunnah scholars i.e man made school of thoughts for fiqh.
You may also ask which Imam did the four Imams themselves follow? The 4 Imams(I would rather call them scholars) were Islamic scholars who derived ruling based on Quran Hadith Qiyas , hence were liable to error due to the Qiyas and the fact that it was not possible for all the Hadith to reach them in the unsophisticated era of the four scholars. They were all correct in the sense that given the hadith availaible to them they applied qiyas and either got it right or wrong, a ruling derived without qiyas is stronger then one with a qiyaas. There always existed a group of scholars called as Ahlul Hadith who discarded Qiyas as optional. The likes of Bukhari, Muslim, Jafar Sadiq, Ahmad Hanbal etc were among the Ahlul Hadith and the like of Abu Hanifa etc came to be known as Ahle Raay(people of opinion)

This term Wahhabism is a newly coined term for these same group of people (Ahlul Hadith) given by their opponents. One should not rely on this names as dozens of names were given by their opponents.

They are currently known as Salafi, Ahle Hadith etc who simple dont follow any Madhab as they believe that their erudite scholars can derive rulings from the Quran and Hadith considering the fact that now we are living in the era of Information and all Hadith of the prophet pbuh are availaible on our finger tips , a luxury not available to scholars of yore!

An analogy that would fit here would be that Albert Einstein may be the smartest, Intelligent and most erudite of his time but his knowledge would be lesser compared to a genius sophomore physics undergrad. (Einstein does not know a 100 years of current Physics)

Similarly the scholars of earlier time had the most Taqwa , Intelligence erudition yet they did not have access to all the Hadith of prophet pbuh(purely a logistic and technical issue). Hence with whatever they had they derived rulings from them. And this is the reason that they (4 scholars) said what Imam Abu Hanifa has said "IF you get any authentic information of our Prophet's (p.b.u.h) ways/words/deeds/teachings/rules etc. you are to throw my words onto the walll and consider the word of Prophet (p.b.u.h) as the final one".

[salaar]

well words from such people should be thrown on the wall even before knowing the words of prophet, you are merely giving me who is who and who believes in what but the core issue is again SHEEYAT E ALI HUM UL FAIZOON and MANKUNTO MAULAHO FA HAAZA ALIUN MAULA, you people are ready to believe on anything FROM any imam who envies Ali and the condition for us is that we are not ready to listen to anything where there is shadow of doubt in the love for Ali.

[anajmi]

we are not ready to listen to anything

Allah says about people like you in the Quran

Summun bukmun AAumyun fahum la yarjiAAoona

Deaf, dumb, and blind, they will not return (to the path).

[anajmi]

One would need to consider this obvious fact that when people do not want to agree with someone, even if he is right in matters of religion, they simply say that he is an enemy of Ali. And then they claim that they cannot agree with him because he is an enemy of Ali. They first perform the action and then create the cause for it. This is similar to the what the pagans of mecca did when they were plotting against the message of Tawheed that the prophet (saw) was giving, to preserve their idol worshipping ways.

[salaar]

I swear upon Almighty Allah I would love to remain Summun bukmun aumyun rather then hear talk and see something that envies ALI a.s

[ghulam muhammed]

one of the vegetable shop owner started shouting in arabic whose translation iam giving, " Rasoolallah said It is mandatory for somebody who comes for haj to eat onions"

If only the people around had a little bit of Islamic knowledge they would thrashed the vegetable vendor on the spot because there are various hadiths (shias/sunnis) which says that Prophet (s.a.w.) has declared onions as "Makruh".

my whole point is what hadees are you talking abt, the hadees quoted by people like Abu Huraira,

Brother, even if you don't believe in Abu Hurarira then also please make it a point to go through his literature because there may be a certain percentage of material which may appeal to you. In short, please view literatures with an unbiased mind. You may ultimately follow what you feel is right but just to discard everything coming from the other side on pure hearsay will not broaden your thinking. BTW, I don't believe in everything that is passed on to us because it has gone through chains of people, some of whom may not have projected the true message due to some vested interest. Hence, only the Hadiths which are in concurrence with the Quranic teachings should be followed and the rest should be discarded. Please don't convert this thread into a shia v/s sunni diatribe as the subject issue is a serious one.

[monginis]

transfer this thread to ISLAM today section.

[phdguy]

brother @salar
people can use the false show of love of Ali to hide their nefarious designs to corrupt the aqeedah and take a Muslim out of the folds of Islam.

We already have examples from past nations, christians . They consider us to be enemies of Jesus and many evangelical christians will tell you that Muhammad pbuh was anti christ (Nouzubillah). Remember brother history repeats always. People tend to use the same tactics over and over because we all are humans with a single enemy:satan

[ghulam muhammed]

The Major Dispute Is Not Ahle Bayt BUT the interpretation of the sayings, history and life of Ahle Bayt... Thanks to the Mullas and sectarian leaders !!

[salaar]

even if ahlebayt is not a major dispute then it must be a minor dispute for them but for us such people and their philosophies are the cause of major dispute. they have been trying since the period of RasoolAllah to stop people taking the name of panjatan, they did all what they could, which history are you talking about the one that you get by these salafi scholars who are busy emitting fire against the shia of maula Ali, well look into the series of events the way they have been trying to shut the lips and cut the tongues of those who praise Ali, dont forget Abu Zar Ghaffari, dont forget Maisam e Tammar, there are thousands of such glittering examples are these all fairytales, these salafies work on their one track mind considering themselves to be the true muslims and the rest mushriks, have you forgotten that even after karbala so much tyranny was descended on the shia of Ali and so many of them were butchered in masjid e nabi that the hooves of horses were dipped into their blood, what to talk about bani ummayah, even after laeen yazeed his likes continued to rule laeen haaris, laeen marwaan, laeen hajaj bin yousuf who did everthing to stop people from talking about the fazails of Maula Ali. after ummayads the Abbasids were no less in their enemity against shias then people like salahuddin ayyubi tried their best to conceal the teachings and influences of fatimi imams, and now today the saudi backed taliban is playing their part in the lashing the enemity of panjatan, brothers and sisters these are hard narrated facts of history not fairy tales as claimed by some of our members, you would shiver after learning about the zulm on Maisam e Tammar, what was his fault just that he stood in the bazar of madina and talked about the fazails of Ali, if you want more details i have them all, but stop thinking that it is just a made up issue, this is the actual prick in the heart of enemies and we have all narrated history which is delivered by Ravi Jasoos from Karbala onwards imam after imam which was properly compiled by Syedna Idrees Imaduddin Maula, concluding my argument i just want to warn my shia readers that this is a sweet coated poison tablet that these salafis are trying to put into your mouth but beware of their nasty designs and dont jump to conclusions without verifying the real facts of islam.

[shehzaada]

I guess Ahlebayt is not at all the dispute as everyone loves ahlebayt , You cant be a Muslim if you hate ahlebayt but i feel the worst enemies of ahlebayt would be the ones who just preach their fazaiil and make them appear as demi gods but dont emulate their life style and teachings. And how can you rely on some unknown "JASOOS" ? Their fazail are already mentioned in Quran , we dont need exaggerators to play their satanic games to eventually make them demi gods like how we see its happening. Remember Not all nusairis died like how not all khawariji were killed . Many of the nusairis in fear of prosecution hid their beliefs and spread false stories in the garb of love of ahlebayt,

[shehzaada]

Also Ahlebayt if were to come down today they would certainly be called as Wahhabis.

[mohamedshah]

I believe the issue of the Ahle Bayt is important and is one of the fundamental doctrinal differences between the Shia et e Ali and the Ahle Sunnah - The two major branches of Mumin's (The followers of The Prophet Mohamed (PBUH) Sayid ul Mursalin ). Hence, it is important to define who are the Ahle Bayt?, As their status is mentioned in the Quran and also supported by Hadith's from all sources considered authentic by all Muslim . My view is Ahle Bayt is not restricted to the Imam of the Time (Imam uz Zamaan), it applies to all descendants of Prophet Mohamed (PBUH). To be noted is of the Offspring of Prophet Mohamed (PBUH), Only Ma Fatima (AS) Sayida tul Nisail Alamin survived to adulthood. She had 4 children with Imam Ali (AS) - namely Imam Hassan (AS) - with surviving descendants to date, Imam Hussein (AS) with surviving descendants to date, Mualatena Zainab (AS) - her two sons Martyed in Kerbala, and Moulatena Umme Kulthum - who had a son who died without issue (Zaid born from Umm e-Kulthum bint ‘Ali, was also known as Zaid al-akbar. They were married in the month of Dhil-Qa’dah of 17th Hijri [9]. The Mahr given to her by ‘Umar bin al-Khattab was 40,000 dirham [10]. Zaid ibn Umer bin al-Khattab was born the year ‘Umer bin al-Khattab died, that is 23rd Hijri [11]. There are other narrations that Umm e Kulthum gave birth to a girl, as well, who was named Ruqayya bint ‘Umer bin al-Khattab [12].
And there are narrations that Zaid (al-Kabir) bin Umer bin al-Khattab used to say:
أنا ابن الخليفتين
“I am the son of two caliphs (‘Umar and ‘Ali)” [13]
He reached the times of M’uawiayh and died as a young man in 50th Hijri. And at that time Sa’eed bin al-‘Aas was the governor of Madinah [14]. Exact year of death has not been mentioned by many other historians but it must be before 59th Hijri as Sa’eed ibn al-‘Aas died in 59th Hijri, and it is certain that he participated in the funeral of Zaid ibn ‘Umer ibn al-Khattab [15]. He died in a young age and his lineage did not continue [16].
Umm e Kulthum bin ‘Ali married Muhammad bin Ja’far bin Abu-Talib (her cousin) after the death of ‘Umer bin al-Khattab [22])


The Quran

وَقَرْنَ فِي بُيُوتِكُنَّ وَلَا تَبَرَّجْنَ تَبَرُّجَ الْجَاهِلِيَّةِ الْأُولَى وَأَقِمْنَ الصَّلَاةَ وَآتِينَ الزَّكَاةَ وَأَطِعْنَ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ إِنَّمَا يُرِيدُ اللَّهُ لِيُذْهِبَ عَنكُمُ الرِّجْسَ أَهْلَ الْبَيْتِ وَيُطَهِّرَكُمْ تَطْهِيراً

33. And (prefer to) remain in your homes (unless there is a need. If you do go out for a need,) do not go out flaunting your charms as (women used to do) in the former times of Ignorance. And establish the Prayer in conformity with its conditions, and pay the Prescribed Purifying Alms, and obey God and His Messenger (in whatever they command). God only wills to remove from you, O members of the (Prophet's) household,17 all that may be loathsome, and to purify you to the utmost of purity.

The Long-Term Custom Of The Prophet After The Revelation Of The Purification Verse
It has been widely narrated that after the revelation of the purification verse of Qur’an (Ayah al-Tat’hir), the Messenger of Allah used to recited this verse at the door of the House of Fatimah and ‘Ali before every prayer when people were gathering to pray with the Messenger of Allah. He continued this practice for many months simply to show the people who his Ahlul-Bayt are. Anas Ibn Malik narrated:
The Messenger of Allah (S), from the time the revelation of "Verily Allah intends to... (the last part of Verse 33:33)”and for six (6) months thereafter, stood by the door of the House of Fatimah and said: "Time for Prayer Ahlul-Bayt; No doubt! Allah wished to remove all abomination from you and make you pure and spotless."
Sunni references:
• Sahih al-Tirmidhi, v12, p85
• Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v3, p258
• Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, v3, p158 who wrote this tradition is authentic as per the criteria of Muslim and Bukhari
• Tafsir al-Durr al-Manthoor, by al-Suyuti, v5, pp 197,199
• Tafsir Ibn Jarir al-Tabari, v22, pp 5,6 (saying seven month)
• Tafsir Ibn Kathir, v3, p483
• Musnad, by al-Tiyalasi, v8, p274
• Usdul Ghabah, by Ibn al-Athir, v5, p146
Abu al-Hamra narrated:
"The Messenger of God continued eight (8) months in Medina, coming to the door of ‘Ali at every morning prayer, putting his two hands on the two sides of the door and exclaiming: "Assalat! Assalat! (prayer! prayer!) Certainly God ward off all uncleanness from you, O Members of the House of Muhammad, and to make you pure and spotless."
Sunni references:
• Tafsir al-Durr al-Manthoor, by al-Suyuti, v5, pp 198-199
• Tafsir Ibn Jarir al-Tabari, v22, p6
• Tafsir Ibn Kathir, v3, p483
• Dhakha’ir al-Uqba, by Muhibbuddin al-Tabari, p24 on the authority of Anas Ibn Malik
• Isti’ab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, v5, p637
• Usdul Ghabah, by Ibn al-Athir, v5, p146
• Majma’ al-Zawa’id, by al-Haythami, v9, pp 121,168
• Mushkil al-Athar, by al-Tahawi, p338
Also Ibn Abbas (ra) narrated:
"We have witnessed the Messenger of God for nine (9) months coming to the door of ‘Ali, son of Abu Talib, at the time of each prayer and saying: ‘Assalamu Alaykum Wa Rahmatullah Ahlul-Bayt (Peace and Mercy of God be upon you, O Members of the House). Certainly God wants only to keep away all the evil from you, Members of the House, and purify you with a thorough purification.’ He did this seven times a day."
Sunni reference: al-Durr al-Manthoor, by al-Hafidh al-Suyuti, v5, p198
In Majma’ al-Zawa’id and exegesis of Suyuti it has been quoted from Abu Said Khudri with a variation in words that:
For forty days the Holy Prophet approached the house of Fatimah al-Zahra (sa) every morning and used to say: ‘Peace be upon you O people of the House! The time for the prayers has come’. And thereafter he used to recite this verse: O people of the Prophet’s House.... And then said: ‘I am in a state of war with him who fights with you and am in a state of peace with him who is at peace with you’.
Sunni references:
• Tafsir al-Durr al-Manthoor, by al-Hafidh al-Suyuti, v5, p199
• Majma’ al-Zawa’id, by al-Haythami, v9, pp 121,168
He repeated this openly at the time of each prayer so as to demonstrate the meaning of this verse verbally as well as practically and he explained it to his followers on the lines of the sacred verse: "We have revealed the Qur’an to you so that you could tell the people what has been revealed to them and that perhaps they will think. (Qur’an 16:44)”This concept became well known among the people and even the companions of the Holy Prophet argued on its basis on behalf of the Holy Prophet’s family:

Hadith

From Sahih Muslim, Hadith 5920:
I am leaving among you two weighty things: the one being the Book of Allah in which there is right guidance and light, so hold fast to the Book of ...Allah and adhere to it. He exhorted (us) (to hold fast) to the Book of Allah and then said: The second are the members of my household I remind you (of your duties) to the members of my family. He (Husain) said to Zaid: Who are the members of his household? Aren't his wives the members of his family? Thereupon he said: His wives are the members of his family (but here) the members of his family are those for whom acceptance of Zakat is forbidden. And he said: Who are they? Thereupon he said: 'Ali and the offspring of 'Ali, 'Aqil and the offspring of 'Aqil and the offspring of Ja'far and the offspring of 'Abbas.
Sahih Muslim Book 031, Number 5955:

'A'isha reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) went out one morning wearing a striped cloak of the black camel's hair that there came Hasan b. 'Ali. He wrapped hitn under it, then came Husain and he wrapped him under it along with the other one (Hasan). Then came Fatima and he took her under it, then came 'Ali and he also took him under it and then said: Allah only desires to take away any uncleanliness from you, O people of the household, and purify you (thorough purifying)..
Sahih Muslim Book 031, Number 5923:
We said: Who are amongst the members of the household? Aren't the wives (of the Holy Prophet) included amongst the members of his house hold? Thereupon he said: No, by Allah, a woman lives with a man (as his wife) for a certain period; he then divorces her and she goes back to her parents and to her people; the members of his household include his ownself and his kith and kin (who are related to him by blood) and for him the acceptance of Zakat is prohibited.
Thirmidhi 3205:
The step-son of Prophet said, "What these Ayat were revealed to the Prophet (SAAW), 'God only wishes to remove the Rijs (evil deeds) from you, O Members of the family (Ahlul Bayt), and to purify you with a thorough purification (Verse 33:33)'. The Prophet (SAAW) called Ali, Fatima, Hassan and Hussain"

Thirmidhi 3206:
For six months, The Messenger of God (SAAW) would pass by the door of Fatima when going to the Fajr prayer saying: "As-Salat, O people of the house! God only wishes to remove Rijs (evil deeds) from you, O Members of the family (Ahlul Bayt)", and to purify you with a thorough purification (verse 33:33)"

Umm Salamah narrated: "The Prophet (SAAW) put a garment over Al-Hasan, Al-Husain, Ali and Fatima, then he said: "O God, these are the people of my house (family),"so remove Rijs (evil and sins) from them and purify them thoroughly (Quran 33:33)." So Umm Salamah said, And am I with them O Messenger of God (SAAW)?He said: "You are upon good" (Hasan)
Allah says in the Quran "The believers are but a single brotherhood so make peace and reconciliation between your two contending brothers and fear Allah that you may receive mercy" [Quran]
It says that the Quran and Ahlul Bayt are the two weighty things. And that the offspring of Ali are part of the Ahlul Bayt.

Second hadith is:

'A'isha reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) went out one morning wearing a striped cloak of the black camel's hair that there came Hasan b. 'Ali. He wrapped hitn under it, then came Husain and he wrapped him under it along with the other one (Hasan). Then came Fatima and he took her under it, then came 'Ali and he also took him under it and then said: Allah only desires to take away any uncleanliness from you, O people of the household, and purify you (thorough purifying)

[anajmi]

33. And (prefer to) remain in your homes (unless there is a need. If you do go out for a need,) do not go out flaunting your charms as (women used to do) in the former times of Ignorance. And establish the Prayer in conformity with its conditions, and pay the Prescribed Purifying Alms, and obey God and His Messenger (in whatever they command). God only wills to remove from you, O members of the (Prophet's) household,17 all that may be loathsome, and to purify you to the utmost of purity.

Consider this ayah. Let us for a second consider that the first part of the ayah is for the wives of the prophet (saw). Who is Allah commanding to establish prayer in conformity with its conditions? The wives. And yet for the next 9 months, the prophet (saw) is reminding his daughter about prayer, but not his wives? Did the prophet (saw) read only the second half of the ayah like you people do?

[shehzaada]

Nice explanation by anajmi

[JavedhJuma]

Infact Ismaili Islam does not have a single book of validated hadith. Isna ashari do have it.Ismaili Islam does not rely on ahadith. They had their own science and they did their own research free of ahadith. If your Aboos did not destroy the libraries in Egypt and make shoes out of the covers, after the split of Nizaris and Mustalians, you would have a lot of "science" and would not have to rely on ahadith which were passed from Asahabas to tabas to tabatabayuns, etc. We all know what happens when a story is passed from one person to the other just in one generation. The seond and third generations would have quite a variance. So if you want to rely on ahadith, take your pick. There are quite a few out there and no two ahadith composed by two people would be exact the same. Learned people, like Kazi Noaman (formerly Sunni), Al-Tusi, formerly a twelver, Nasir Khusraw, formerly a twelver and Hasan bin-Sabah, also a former twelver, converted to Ismailism. Khusraw converted a lot of people in former Soviet Republics, Afghanistan, Norther areas in Pakistan, etc. into Ismailism. They did not rely on ahadith. They relied on Qur'an and reached the Imam in Egypt.

Do you know the Ismaili sect aga khani khoja is the only sect which has an unbroken chain of Imamate traceable to the final prophet pbuh to this day. But you see they have abolished namaaz, hajj etc This is a lot of bs and I will not even waste my time to address this. and believe the Imam as mazhar of Allah swt. True. Now define Mazhar and then we can continueHence you have to accept that even the proven descendants of the prophet pbuh can fall into error and misguidance as it is only Allah who guides. If it Allah only who guides then why did he send Prophets?Hence rather then showing geneologies we should do research on who has the authentic teachings of ahlebayt preserved via an unbroken chain reaching to the prophet pbuh.Keep researching. Good luck.

Infact there are more fabricated hadith then sahih hadith. This is where the science of hadith comes as Allah says "We have, Without doubt, sent down the Zikr(Zikr of Rasulallah): and we will assuredly guard it (from corruption) (Qur'an 15:9)" . If so then why do you need "the science of ahadith"? Is Allah SWT 's word not good enough for you?. If I start quoting ahadith, you will run in another direction.The scientific scrutiny of hadith enables us to distinguish the false hadith from the sahih onesSo who scrutinises this and when can we see them.. There are very stringent criteria and science to accept or reject a hadith
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[JavedhJuma]

Phd guy:

and one Imam Moiz even converted to coptic Christianity and his baptistry is present to this day

Where did you read this? This is news to me. Albeit, he had good relations with Christians, but conversion to Christianity???????????????????????? Stop halluinating or stop listening to your Mullahs and do your own research so you do not have to look ignorant!

[bohrabai]

There is a book on this topic which is reliable and it does say that Moiz converted to Christianity , just search this forum as this was discussed in past with all the evidences cited.