Sunni Bohra: 80% of erstwhile bohras changed to Sunni Islam

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shehzaada
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Sunni Bohra: 80% of erstwhile bohras changed to Sunni Islam

#1

Unread post by shehzaada » Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:04 pm

In the book "Mullahs in Mainframe" , jonah writes that 80% of the Bohras changed to sunni islam and were and still known as Sunni bohra. This was very surprising to me as I always thought sunni bohras just coincidentally shared the "bohra" label as they might have been gujju vyaparis. So my question is what caused such a large % of bohras to change to Sunni Islam. Does anyone know the history in detail from non dawoodi bohra academic sources.?
Last edited by shehzaada on Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

shehzaada
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Re: Sunni Bohra: 80% or erstwhile bohras changed to Sunni Is

#2

Unread post by shehzaada » Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:13 pm


shehzaada
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Re: Sunni Bohra: 80% or erstwhile bohras changed to Sunni Is

#3

Unread post by shehzaada » Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:17 pm

It says more details are in book mawsam-i-bahar vol III, can anyone point out where we can find this book?

think
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Re: Sunni Bohra: 80% of erstwhile bohras changed to Sunni Is

#4

Unread post by think » Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:46 pm

i think it was during one of the dai dawood bin kutub shah that two branches sprung up. One side was known as dawoodi and the other side was vohra. some of those settles in rangoon etc. I know of a friend whose last name was simjhee and he called hinmself a vohra but prayed in sunni masque.

ghulam muhammed
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Re: Sunni Bohra: 80% of erstwhile bohras changed to Sunni Is

#5

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:02 pm

Traditionally, they have been traders and most of them have the suffix wala in their last name to designate either their ancestral trade or their ancestral village. Many Sunni Bohras/Vohras are educated professionals with a large number of bankers, doctors and engineers among them.

Sunni Vohras/Bohras have large communities in the major cities of Gujarat such as Ahmedabad and Surat as well as in smaller towns such as Patan, Himmatnagar, Visnagar, Bhavnagar, Mahesana, Kadi, Kalol, etc. and in Saurashtra, in Una, Veraval, Junagadh, Jetpur, Porbandar, Mangrol and Diu. There is a large community also based in Mumbai. After independence in 1947, many members of the community moved to Pakistan from India and there is a 15,500 strong community in Karachi. Recently, many Sunni Bohras/Vohras from Ahmedabad, Surat, Karachi and Bombay have migrated to the United States, Canada, Australia and the Persian Gulf countries forming small pockets of communities throughout many cities (numbering upwards of 500 people in Chicago, Illinois, US).[2]

In the 15th century, there was schism in Bohra community of Patan in Gujarat as large number converted from Mustaali Ismaili to Hanafi Sunni fiqh. The leader of this conversion movement to Sunni was Jafar. Thus this new group is known as Jafari Bohras and Patani Bohras. In 1538, Syed Jafar Ahmad Shirazi convinced Patani Bohras to cease social relations with Ismaili Bohras. The cumulative results of these pressures resulted in over one million Bohras converting from Ismaili Shia Fiqh to Sunni Hanafi Fiqh

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunni_Bohra

shehzaada
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Re: Sunni Bohra: 80% of erstwhile bohras changed to Sunni Is

#6

Unread post by shehzaada » Thu May 01, 2014 7:29 am

Ya but no details yet. Who was this Jafar who managed to convert 80% of Bohras to Sunni Islam? How did he achieve this great feat and I read it happened when there were some succession disputes?

Saeed al Khair
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Re: Sunni Bohra: 80% of erstwhile bohras changed to Sunni Is

#7

Unread post by Saeed al Khair » Thu May 01, 2014 11:11 pm

Please notr
80% financially sound Dawoodi Bohras converted to Sunni Islam during the preaching of Jafar Nahrwali/Patni.
He was a student of Mulla Adam and Mulla Hasan Vali al Hind. He requested after studying several years in Ahmadabad Madrash to grant him permission to join Madrasa in Yemen,under the Dai, but mulla Hasan refused. Jafar visited Yemen and spent 3 years and managed his arrival tactfully without the latter of recommendation. He asked permission to leave India from the Dai and asked about his status . The Dai instructed to work under mulla Hasan . He changed mind and spent much time in yemen and when repeat his wish regarding position in India, the Dai said till the port you have permission to handle the affairs of Dawat.

Baqi Biyaan afterwards

JC
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Re: Sunni Bohra: 80% of erstwhile bohras changed to Sunni Is

#8

Unread post by JC » Fri May 02, 2014 2:45 pm

God Willing 100% will vry soon become True Muslim, freed from clutches of Muffat-Dal and his false religion.

Bohra spring
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Re: Sunni Bohra: 80% of erstwhile bohras changed to Sunni Is

#9

Unread post by Bohra spring » Fri May 02, 2014 10:46 pm

This is a personal confession in my search of my ideal faith

After research after research I find Sunni Islam to be closest to what our Prophet intended . Sunni are not perfect but they practise Monolithism , Quran, love for the prophet much superior.

I am leaning towards Sunni

Muslim First
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Re: Sunni Bohra: 80% of erstwhile bohras changed to Sunni Is

#10

Unread post by Muslim First » Sat May 03, 2014 7:36 am

Bohra spring wrote:This is a personal confession in my search of my ideal faith

After research after research I find Sunni Islam to be closest to what our Prophet intended . Sunni are not perfect but they practise Monolithism , Quran, love for the prophet much superior.

I am leaning towards Sunni
Allah o Akbar

badrijanab
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Re: Sunni Bohra: 80% of erstwhile bohras changed to Sunni Is

#11

Unread post by badrijanab » Sat May 03, 2014 4:09 pm

(1)
Sunni contends for Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w. that he is not infallible and have indeed committed errors. Mazallah.

But same Sunni's for Bukhari & Muslim contends their work of 'Sahih' (or they are) infallible!!! Sunnis do not have any basis to believe why should they treat Bukhar & Muslim Sahih as infallible! So without reasoning they keep blind faith that duo were unmistakable (like masoom) in collecting their Sahih!!!

(2) When Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w. have not authorized 1/2/3 with any religious authority then 1/2/3 have no right to change / amend / alter Shariyat-a-Mohammadi s.a.w.w. but they did alter shariyat by their own whims and fancies. Eg) During Prophet saww era nafil namaz was offered not under imamat, no congregation. But Umar changed this established practice and made tarawi as congregaional prayers!!!!!!

shehzaada
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Re: Sunni Bohra: 80% of erstwhile bohras changed to Sunni Is

#12

Unread post by shehzaada » Sun May 04, 2014 12:44 am

Badribhai,
Those are a bunch of lies. Prophet pbuh exclusively appointed Haz Abu Bakr RA for prayers , he could have appointed Ali a.s but he did not. Ali also assumed the 4th caliphate so rather saying 1\2\3 say 1\2\3\4 .Also see the thread of virtues of Abu Bakr a.s ,which clearly proves that Haz Abu Bakr a.s was the best choice. Moreover there is no succession to prophethood. Which shias are just not willing to digest.

badrijanab
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Re: Sunni Bohra: 80% of erstwhile bohras changed to Sunni Is

#13

Unread post by badrijanab » Sun May 04, 2014 3:20 am

If we assume that Hz. Abu Bakr lead the prayers - how does it this make him as legal nominee and successor of Prophet s.a.w.w.?

Previously many others have been appointed by Prophet s.a.w.w. to boss over Hz. Abu Bakr and latter has prayed under former's Imamat! So by your reasoning that person should be caliph!

In none of the siha-sitta books of Sunni's not even one tradition pledges if Mohammed s.a.w.w. has appointed 1/2/3 as his successor.

Sunni's consider Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w. as fallible!!! But consider Bukhari & Muslim work as infallible!!!!!!!! :!: :!: :!:

Sunnat of Prophet s.a.w.w.: Mohammed s.a.w.w. the spiritual head of the then mumineen was appointed by Allah and not by the ijtema or vote counting! Fatimi Dawat is the only maslaq to follow the sunnat of Prophet s.a.w.w. where else Sunni's and Ithna Asheri have left sunnat and does contrary to sunnat = electing their leaders than obeying to the one appointed by Allah.

shehzaada
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Re: Sunni Bohra: 80% of erstwhile bohras changed to Sunni Is

#14

Unread post by shehzaada » Sun May 04, 2014 3:34 am

badribhai, you seem to again not willing to digest the fact that prophet pbuh never appointed anyone as his successor, which I clarified many a times on this forum, neither Ali, Abu Bakr , none were explicitly \officially declared in unequivocal termsbecause the prophet pbuh had come with all things necessary for salavation and also ensured its preservation. We dont hold ABU bAKR AS how you hold Ali , we can accept\reject the sayings of these calips but we cannot reject the sayings of the final prophet pbuh which are preserved as how Quran is preserved.

badrijanab
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Re: Sunni Bohra: 80% of erstwhile bohras changed to Sunni Is

#15

Unread post by badrijanab » Sun May 04, 2014 3:59 am

shehzaada wrote:badribhai, you seem to again not willing to digest the fact that prophet pbuh never appointed anyone as his successor, which I clarified many a times on this forum, neither Ali, Abu Bakr , none were explicitly \officially declared in unequivocal termsbecause the prophet pbuh had come with all things necessary for salavation and also ensured its preservation. We dont hold ABU bAKR AS how you hold Ali , we can accept\reject the sayings of these calips but we cannot reject the sayings of the final prophet pbuh which are preserved as how Quran is preserved.
Muslim means follower of Islamic rules and regulations.

If you use your own discretion to accept or reject dictums of Islam then you are not Muslim. You are elevating yourself to the equal level of Prophet s.a.w.w. Thus the whole branch out sect of yours cult who follow 1/2/3 are not even qualify to be termed as Muslims.

shehzaada
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Re: Sunni Bohra: 80% of erstwhile bohras changed to Sunni Is

#16

Unread post by shehzaada » Sun May 04, 2014 4:48 am

badribhai so who is your authorized iMAM? who has run away?

badrijanab
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Re: Sunni Bohra: 80% of erstwhile bohras changed to Sunni Is

#17

Unread post by badrijanab » Sun May 04, 2014 6:23 am

shehzaada wrote:badribhai so who is your authorized iMAM? who has run away?
Only your etc, etc & etc have ran away from Islam Jihaad leaving behind Prophet s.a.w.w. & Mola Ali a.s. to face enemies of Islam. Our Imam Hussain a.s. martyr not fled, Hasanpheer a.q. martyred not fled, Syyedna Qutbuddin martyr not fled. It is only your etc, etc and etc who fled fearing death and in luring for material life.

Muslim First
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Re: Sunni Bohra: 80% of erstwhile bohras changed to Sunni Is

#18

Unread post by Muslim First » Sun May 04, 2014 7:03 am

BJ wrote
Only your etc, etc & etc have ran away from Islam Jihaad leaving behind Prophet s.a.w.w. & Mola Ali a.s. to face enemies of Islam. Our Imam Hussain a.s. martyr not fled, Hasanpheer a.q. martyred not fled, Syyedna Qutbuddin martyr not fled. It is only your etc, etc and etc who fled fearing death and in luring for material life.
Never mind who fled and who did not.
Who is your Imam today and where is he?
No lame excuses.

badrijanab
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Re: Sunni Bohra: 80% of erstwhile bohras changed to Sunni Is

#19

Unread post by badrijanab » Sun May 04, 2014 7:47 am

Muslim First wrote:BJ wrote
Only your etc, etc & etc have ran away from Islam Jihaad leaving behind Prophet s.a.w.w. & Mola Ali a.s. to face enemies of Islam. Our Imam Hussain a.s. martyr not fled, Hasanpheer a.q. martyred not fled, Syyedna Qutbuddin martyr not fled. It is only your etc, etc and etc who fled fearing death and in luring for material life.
Never mind who fled and who did not.
Who is your Imam today and where is he?
No lame excuses.
Imam today: In Progeny of Prophet Mohammed saww, son of Fatima bint Rasool Allah saww & Mola Ali a.s, the Imam uz zaman a.s.

Where he is: on earth.

Proof he is presently on earth: Prophet Mohammed saww has prophesied coming of Imam Mehdi a.z.s in the progeny of Fatima bint Rasool Allah saww.

Muslim First
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Re: Sunni Bohra: 80% of erstwhile bohras changed to Sunni Is

#20

Unread post by Muslim First » Sun May 04, 2014 8:10 am

BJ
Proof he is presently on earth: Prophet Mohammed saww has prophesied coming of Imam Mehdi a.z.s in the progeny of Fatima bint Rasool Allah saww.
Where on earth?
What Prophesy? Please quote. What makes you believe it is not Forgery?
Why it is not Quran if it is so important?

badrijanab
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Re: Sunni Bohra: 80% of erstwhile bohras changed to Sunni Is

#21

Unread post by badrijanab » Sun May 04, 2014 9:47 am

Where on earth? Any where.

What Prophesy? Please quote. What makes you believe it is not Forgery? Do Google search for references on hadith on Imam Mehdi a.z.s. in Muslim & Bukhari. Still u r unable to find then let me know I will give details. It is not forgery because it appears in our book.

Why it is not Quran if it is so important? It is in Quran, search my post on it.

anajmi
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Re: Sunni Bohra: 80% of erstwhile bohras changed to Sunni Is

#22

Unread post by anajmi » Sun May 04, 2014 9:57 am

King Abdullah of Jordan is a descendent of the prophet (saw), not hiding and a follower of Sunni Islam. Besides, there are many people who call themselves Syed amongst shias and sunnis. These people consider themselves to be direct descendants of the prophet(saw). And these people are proud to call themselves Syed. They are not hiding like some hidden Imam. So if Imam Mehdi is to come, he will come from one of these people who are true to their faith and not from some Imam that has been hiding for centuries. He will be a descendant of the prophet (saw). Case closed.

badrijanab
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Re: Sunni Bohra: 80% of erstwhile bohras changed to Sunni Is

#23

Unread post by badrijanab » Sun May 04, 2014 10:04 am

anajmi wrote:King Abdullah of Jordan is a descendent of the prophet (saw), not hiding and a follower of Sunni Islam. Case closed.
Is King Abdullah an "Imam" appointed by Prophet? No.

Quran says same, that lord of kaafirs are their tagooth and Allah have nothing to do with them. Your lord/Imam are people like King Abdullah, Osama bin Laden, Yazeed and alike: they are not Imam appointed by Allah but they are Imam's of Sunni's = not forefather of Imam Mehdi a.z.s.

anajmi
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Re: Sunni Bohra: 80% of erstwhile bohras changed to Sunni Is

#24

Unread post by anajmi » Sun May 04, 2014 10:12 am

Prophet (saw) died 14 centuries ago. He cannot appoint anyone Imam. His descendants have been appointed by Allah in the Quran as you rightly said. King Abdullah is his descendant. My neighborhood Syed is also his descendant. Case closed.

badrijanab
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Re: Sunni Bohra: 80% of erstwhile bohras changed to Sunni Is

#25

Unread post by badrijanab » Sun May 04, 2014 10:32 am

anajmi wrote:Prophet (saw) died 14 centuries ago. He cannot appoint anyone Imam. His descendants have been appointed by Allah in the Quran as you rightly said. King Abdullah is his descendant. My neighborhood Syed is also his descendant. Case closed.
Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w. was appointed by Allah. Prophet s.a.w.w. appointed Mola Ali a.s. on the day of Gadeer when he said "haq will follow Ali a.s.". Ali a.s. appointed Imam Hasan a.s., he in turn appointed Imam Hussain a.s..... Imam Ismail a.s..... Imam Tayyeb a.s. .... till the present Imam ... upto & beyond Imam Mehdi a.z.s.

Haq follow Ali and his progeny. But haq do not follow your lord Osama bin Laden and Yazeed and King Abdullah, etc.

anajmi
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Re: Sunni Bohra: 80% of erstwhile bohras changed to Sunni Is

#26

Unread post by anajmi » Sun May 04, 2014 10:39 am

Haq follow Ali and his progeny.
And king Abdullah is from his progeny.
But haq do not follow your ..... King Abdullah..
So basically, you have no clue what haq actually means. Case closed.

badrijanab
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Re: Sunni Bohra: 80% of erstwhile bohras changed to Sunni Is

#27

Unread post by badrijanab » Sun May 04, 2014 10:52 am

anajmi wrote:
Haq follow Ali and his progeny.
And king Abdullah is from his progeny.
But haq do not follow your ..... King Abdullah..
So basically, you have no clue what haq actually means. Case closed.
Haq follow those in the progeny of Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w. who are appointed as Imam by his predecessor who in turn is appointed by Mola Ali and who in turn is appointed by Mohammed and Allah.

Above was implied but you have to falsely object because you are misguided, running out of arguments and on top of everything you are intellectually baimaan.

Haq do not follow your 1/2/3 nor to your King Abdullah nor to your maloon Yazeed nor to your Osama bin Laden. But haq follows Mola Ali and his progeny who are appointed as Imams.

anajmi
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Re: Sunni Bohra: 80% of erstwhile bohras changed to Sunni Is

#28

Unread post by anajmi » Sun May 04, 2014 10:59 am

Haq follow those in the progeny of Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w.
King Abdullah is the progeny of Prophet Mohammed (saw).

Ali (ra) is dead and cannot appoint anyone. Prophet Mohammad (saw) is dead and cannot appoint anyone. Your Imams have been hiding for centuries and who knows who or what they have been appointing. No one even knows their appointees. The progeny of prophet Mohammad has been appointed by Allah as you yourself claimed. King Abdullah is progeny of Prophet Mohammad (saw). Hence he has been appointed by Allah. He is Sunni. Case closed.

badrijanab
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Re: Sunni Bohra: 80% of erstwhile bohras changed to Sunni Is

#29

Unread post by badrijanab » Sun May 04, 2014 11:16 am

anajmi wrote:
Haq follow those in the progeny of Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w.
King Abdullah is the progeny of Prophet Mohammed (saw).

Ali (ra) is dead and cannot appoint anyone. Prophet Mohammad (saw) is dead and cannot appoint anyone. Your Imams have been hiding for centuries and who knows who or what they have been appointing. No one even knows their appointees. The progeny of prophet Mohammad has been appointed by Allah as you yourself claimed. King Abdullah is progeny of Prophet Mohammad (saw). Hence he has been appointed by Allah. He is Sunni. Case closed.
since branching out of Islam till date 1/2/3 and their vested interest among their followers are CONNING and FOOLING common 1/2/3 followers with such idiotic and fooling arguments. As they are deviated from Islam so they give above illogical logics and fool their followers to keep them in their cult.

anajmi
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Re: Sunni Bohra: 80% of erstwhile bohras changed to Sunni Is

#30

Unread post by anajmi » Sun May 04, 2014 11:57 am

Is that the reason why you choose to keep your own illogic "hidden"? :wink: