The Myth of Intercession

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Hasan
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed May 07, 2014 3:44 pm

The Myth of Intercession

#1

Unread post by Hasan » Fri May 09, 2014 1:48 pm

To believe that anyone, other than God, can intercede on our behalf to have our sins forgiven or our wishes fulfilled, is to set up partners with God. This is an act of 'shirk'.

1- The Quran proclaims that:

"All intercession belongs to God" 39:44

and that there will be "no intercession on the Day of Judgment" 2:254

We learn from the Quran that Abraham, God's beloved servant, could not intercede on behalf of his father (9:114). Noah could not intercede on behalf of his son (11:46). Muhammad could not intercede on behalf of his uncle (111:1-3) or relatives (9:80).

Further confirmation that there will be no intercession on Judgement Day are given in: 2:48, 123; 6:51, 70; 7:53; 26:100; 30:13; 32:4; 36:23; 40:18; & 74:48.
2- In the following verse God ridicules all who claim that someone will intercede for them on Judgement Day:

"You have come to Us each on his own, just as We created you the first time, and you have left behind what We had provided for you. We do not see with you your intercessors whom you claimed were 'shurakaa' (partners) among you. All your means have been cut off and that which you have claimed has deserted you." 6:94

The Intercession advocates will naturally manipulate the content of 6:94 by saying this does not apply to Muslims, but any unbiased reader can see that God never excluded any people from the message of 6:94. The above words address all who claim to have intercessors, and thus these words also apply to all Muslims who claim that Muhammad will intercede for them.

In addition, the words in 6:94 are of great importance in defining all who advocate intercession as ones who are committing an act of shirk. We note the deliberate use of the word 'shurakaa' which is the corner stone of the act of 'shirk'. Those who advocate intercession are setting up partners (shurakaa) with God in His exclusive right as the absolute owner of the the Day of Judgement (1:4).
3- How rational is the concept of intercession in principle? To analyse this concept we first remind ourselves that in 4:48 God says that He forgives all sins except 'shirk' (setting up partners with God). We also read in 39:53 how God speaks of those who worship Him alone (ibadi), and thus who do not commit 'shirk', and says that He will forgive all their sins, even if they have exceeded all levels of transgression.
For the purpose of our analysis, we will divide all humans into 2 categories:

A- Ones who die as genuine worshippers of God alone and who were not practicing 'shirk' at the moment of death, albeit having committed numerous other sins.
B- Then we have all the rest, they are the disbelievers, and those who were practicing 'shirk' up till the moment of death.

The immediate question here is as follows:
For which of the 2 categories of people would Muhammad, or any other messenger, intercede?
Would they be interceding for a believer who has not committed "shirk" (category A)? If yes, then their intercession is totally useless since God tells us that He will forgive all their sins anyway (39:53). The members of this category of people are in no need for human intercession. Indeed, there is no better intercessor for them than God; God is their only Intercessor:

"They have none beside Him as an ally, nor an intercessor, so that they may revere." 6:51

Would they (the messengers) be interceding for a disbeliever, or for a 'mushrik' (category B)?
No one (including messengers) is allowed to intercede for a 'mushrik' since 'shirk' is the only unforgivable sin (4:48). This is confirmed in the Quran. We read in 9:80 how God informs Muhammad that even if he asks forgiveness for them 100 times, God would still not forgive them because they are disbelievers. The prophet Abraham was reprimanded by God when he tried to intercede for his father who was also practicing 'shirk'.

So what we have here is 2 scenarios which are both irrational. On the one hand, all the sins of the genuine believers will be forgiven by God (39:53), God is their only Intercessor (6:51), therefore they do not need the intercession of any human. On the other hand, we have all the disbelievers and 'mushrekeen' (those who set up partners with God). They will never be forgiven, nor is any human allowed to intercede for them (including Muhammad 9:80).

4- When we consider the overall message of the Quran and all divine scripture, and we review what we are told about God's infinite mercy, we arrive at an even more serious matter. The concept of intercession, as portrayed in the hadith, implies that some people will be physically taken out of hell, but only after the intercession of Muhammad, they would have to thank the intercession of Muhammad for this reprieve! This alleged plea of mercy from the messenger to God automatically implies that the messenger was not satisfied with God’s mercy and that he pleaded with God to show more mercy towards some people!
The mere suggestion that God placed those people in hell then the messenger asked for more mercy from God would indirectly imply that the human messenger was in fact more compassionate than God Himself! Needless to say, this concept is in total violation of everything we know about God’s infinite mercy. This concept is a grave insult to God.
The concept of intercession also implies that God reversed the sentence He decreed for certain people after the intercession of a human messenger! Once again this is in violation of the fact that God's judgement and decrees on Judgement Day are final and cannot be influenced, changed or reversed by anyone:

"To God belongs the future of the heavens and the earth, and all matters are decided by Him alone. You shall worship Him and trust in Him. Your Lord is never unaware of what you do." 11:123

"That is the day when no soul can help another soul, and all decisions, on that day, will belong to God alone." 82:19

"You (Muhammad) have no say in the matter; He may either redeem them, or He may punish them; for they are transgressors." 3:128
In truth, the whole concept of intercession is nothing but a glaring, outrageous and blasphemous doctrine.

Special commentary on 2:255

One of the verses which the Sunni’s use to claim that Muhammad will intercede for his nation on Judgement Day is 2:255, and specifically the following words:

"Who can intercede with Him, except with His permission?" 2:255

In 2:255 God speaks about those who cannot intercede, except if He gives the permission, which in some ways suggests that God may give His permission to some to intercede.
But we are also told very clearly in numerous other verses that there will be no intercession on Judgement Day (2:48, 2:123, 2:254, 6:51, 6:70, 7:53, 26:100, 30:13, 32:4, 36:23, 39:44, 40:18, 74:48).

The Sunni’s use the words "except with His permission" to say that God would not say these words if He will never give anyone permission to intercede, so to them these words indicate that God, with His permission, will allow Muhammad to intercede for the Muslims. They go on to claim, with the support of various hadith, that Muhammad will be asked to name his wish from God, then Muhammad will ask for his “Ummah” (nation) to be saved! Various hadith in Bukhari go on to say that God will give permission to Muhammad to take out of hell many of his “Ummah” who are already in hell. One example is the hadith (Volume 6, Book 60, Number 3).
The hadith followers believe these hadith and advocate their content. God in His infinite wisdom knows that these hadith will be fabricated, thus God tells us:

"As for the one who was sentenced for punishment, can you (Muhammad) save those who are in the fire?" 39:19

This awesome rhetorical question, which is worded with mockery, provides absolute evidence that Muhammad will not be taking anyone who is in the fire out!

The mere suggestion of such hadith, that God will put someone in hell then Muhammad will be allowed to take them out, indirectly implies that it was Muhammad's intercession that saved them, albeit with God's permission!
In view of all the above, what is the correct meaning of the referred to words in 2:255?
God has promised that all the answers are given in the Quran (16:89).
First, the genuine believers will accept the message of all the verses which speak of intercession as something that belongs to God alone.
The full picture about intercession will be completed with the following words:

"They (messengers) do not intercede, except for those already accepted by Him, and they (messengers) will stand in awe out of fear of Him." 21:28 (also 53:26).

These words state categorically that even the cherished messengers of God do not have any authority to intercede except to those already redeemed by God. Like everyone else, they will be too busy on Judgement Day worrying about their own necks:
Needless to say, those who are already redeemed by God would not be in need of any intercession.
Everyone in Paradise will probably intercede on behalf of his/her loved ones: "Please God, admit my mother into Paradise." If the person's mother deserves to go to Paradise she will be in Paradise, whether her loved ones interceded for her or not. Thus, intercession, though it will take place in this manner, is utterly useless.
This is confirmed in the following words:

"On that day, intercession will not benefit anyone other than the one whom the Almighty has granted permission and accepts what he has to say." 20:109

The advocates of intercession claim that 20:109 implies that Muhammad will indeed intercede for his people. This is a clear manipulation of the words of 20:109. When we read the words of this verse we realise that God is speaking about the ones who will benefit from intercession and not the ones who will intercede.
The ones who will have any benefit are in fact the ones who are already approved by God to be pardoned. Their benefit is a result of God's mercy and not a benefit of human intercession. This also confirms that even though intercession will take place, yet it can never change God’s Judgement nor benefit anyone who is not already pardoned by God.
As a result, the whole doubt regarding the words in 2:255 is totally resolved for the believers. The words "except with His permission" are given full light by means of the words "for those already accepted by Him". The two sets of Quranic words remove all doubts about this issue.

Conclusion:

So to sum up, the whole concept of intercession is a myth and it was conjured up by the devil specifically to trick people into idolising other humans thinking they will save them on judgement day, and by doing so, the human would have set up partners with God’s absolute authority!
Do they not read the Quran properly, have they never seen or contemplated on the meaning of the following Quranic words:

"Is God not sufficient for His servant?" 39:36

Indeed we find a great number of Muslims who can recite the Quran by heart, and many more millions reading the Quran at the speed of light then boasting to have completed so many readings of the book (a habit which is widely spread specially during Ramadan) yet sadly they don’t understand the book!
While the devil has duped millions of Muslims into believing that they cannot exit hell except through the “Intercession” of Muhammad, he has also had a field day with millions of Christians when he sold them the equally fictitious concept of “Salvation”, which dictates that Jesus is their “Saviour” and that there is no “Salvation” except through Jesus. What a sad lot all these millions are! With Muslims the title was “Intercession” while to Christians it was “Salvation”, two different titles but the content is identical, and the purpose is also identical; to idolise humans besides God thinking they will save them!
Genuine believers know that God alone has all the authority and that they do not need anyone other than God, The One, The Supreme Ruler and the only Saviour.



anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: The Myth of Intercession

#2

Unread post by anajmi » Sat May 10, 2014 12:02 am

We had a good session today in Jumu'a relevant to intercession. It described various forms of intercession as suggested by the prophet (saw) himself. The Quran says that there will be no intercession on the day of judgment save by the permission of the Lord. So anyone who says that he or she cannot enter jannah without intercession is wrong and anyone who says that no intercession will be needed is also wrong.

A few examples given today were that a shaheed will be allowed to intercede on behalf of 70 members of his family. One true mumin in a family will be able to intercede on behalf of his family members. The fasts of a person who fasted in the month of Ramadan will be able to intercede on his behalf. The Quran itself will be an intercessor on behalf of the one who read it and memorized it throughout his life. Of course, the intercession works if the person is not truly a member of hell but dangling somewhere in between. So, the bottom line is that do not rely on intercession as you never know if someone will be able to intercede on your behalf or not. For eg. a shaheed who is able to intercede for you, might not choose to intercede for you. He might choose some other family member. So, let your deeds intercede on your behalf.

Both the extremes are wrong. Stay the middle course. Believe in intercession, but do not depend on it as God might choose not to permit it.



Hasan
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed May 07, 2014 3:44 pm

Re: The Myth of Intercession

#3

Unread post by Hasan » Sat May 10, 2014 2:47 am

anajmi wrote:We had a good session today in Jumu'a relevant to intercession. It described various forms of intercession as suggested by the prophet (saw) himself. The Quran says that there will be no intercession on the day of judgment save by the permission of the Lord. So anyone who says that he or she cannot enter jannah without intercession is wrong and anyone who says that no intercession will be needed is also wrong.

A few examples given today were that a shaheed will be allowed to intercede on behalf of 70 members of his family. One true mumin in a family will be able to intercede on behalf of his family members. The fasts of a person who fasted in the month of Ramadan will be able to intercede on his behalf. The Quran itself will be an intercessor on behalf of the one who read it and memorized it throughout his life. Of course, the intercession works if the person is not truly a member of hell but dangling somewhere in between. So, the bottom line is that do not rely on intercession as you never know if someone will be able to intercede on your behalf or not. For eg. a shaheed who is able to intercede for you, might not choose to intercede for you. He might choose some other family member. So, let your deeds intercede on your behalf.

Both the extremes are wrong. Stay the middle course. Believe in intercession, but do not depend on it as God might choose not to permit it.

let go into more detail about the doctrine of intercession

it is common misconconception not only in islam but also in christianity is that their prophets will stand before god on the day of judgement and basically intercede with god for anyone who labeled themselves christian or muslim what they are basically saying is deed not matter . All you to do is belong to our club and you are saved

this myth originated from the scholars of the respective religions and is based on hearsay and invented policies as recorded in the book of hadith for islam and teaching of paul in bible for christianity . I don't know how this myth got accepted by so many people especially in early days but i can see why people would believe it nobody want to live with a guilt conscience

we tend to believe what we want to believe . most people do not prefer truth ,instead they prefer something that will make them feel better about themselves and where they are going they want hear something that give them hope for salvation . It happens to all of us when we get tempted ,when really want to do something that we know is wrong we will gladly accept any lie that allows us to do it and still feels good about ourselves . That is why many people prefer absolute lies over the truth ,even if is a blatant lie as in this case . this is why the deception works well.

if a person believe that the prophet will stand there and be advocates on the behalf of the wicked and treacherous who never repented and change , that they will say "O God forgive this follower of mine "even though he / she continued to all the things i told the forbidden "then there is nothing i can do about that . This why we have freedom of choice .All i can do is try to provide the correct information and frame of reference in hopes to make it clear that to follow someone means to actually doing what they said

Imagine that your father owns a business and you have a friend that needs job . so you get him a job but knows he keeps stealing .your father suspects someone is stealing so you tell your friend about it and how unacceptable is it but he keeps stealing anyway .Eventually your father has him on camera stealing numerous times and call you both to the office Will you stand there and say "this person was MY FOLLOWER SO FORGIVE HIM and now let live in our house too or will you say this person is the theft he betray my trust and he is not of me ?? this is the frame of reference that should help understand what will happen on judgment day . The prophets will not be witnesses FOR the wrongdoer , they will be witnesses AGAINST them

matter of fact prophet muhammad (s) is forbidden to speak on behalf of the treacherous .Allah commands him the quran "surely we have revealed the book to you with truth that you judge between people means of that which Allah has taught you AND DO NOT ADVOCATE ON BEHALF OF THE TREACHEROUS .
and ask forgiveness of Allah surely Allah is forging merciful and DO NOT PLEAD ON THE BEHALF OF THOSE WHO ACT UNFAITHFULLY TO THERE SOULS surely Allah does not love him who is treacherous ,sinful Quran 4:105-107

so do you really think he will be the advocate of those who continued to do what is wrong in sight of God ??

unfortunately we have many people believing these false doctrines . Our supposed "Holly men are selling false hope .There is an absolute need for this false doctrines however THis is why they exits . THose who wish to rule in this world need evil to be done in order to secure the their power . They need people for this job and there is no better way to get people to do evil then to sell lies to those who prefer to hear them anyway in the end not only do we end up getting used in this world but damned in the next as well . this beacuse we choose to believe the lies its is our choice it i will always be easier to believe that we will be forgive no matter what than to do the right thing



anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: The Myth of Intercession

#4

Unread post by anajmi » Sat May 10, 2014 10:49 am

You didn't fully read or understand what I have posted. First, do not ignore what the prophet (saw) has taught us. Allah commands us in the Quran to obey Allah and obey the messenger. If it were God alone, then there was no need for this command. So first, anyone who says "God alone" is going against the command of God.

Second, intercession is not a myth. It is clearly specified in the Quran. "No intercession except with the permission of Allah". So IF there is permission of Allah, there will be intercession. Anyone who claims that the right of intercession belongs to him is wrong. Anyone who claims there will be no intercession is also wrong. I gave many examples and clarification above. Please re-read my post.



Hasan
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed May 07, 2014 3:44 pm

Re: The Myth of Intercession

#5

Unread post by Hasan » Sat May 10, 2014 2:30 pm

brother ,
Allah commands him the quran "surely we have revealed the book to you with truth that you judge between people means of that which Allah has taught you AND DO NOT ADVOCATE ON BEHALF OF THE TREACHEROUS .
and ask forgiveness of Allah surely Allah is forging merciful and DO NOT PLEAD ON THE BEHALF OF THOSE WHO ACT UNFAITHFULLY TO THERE SOULS surely Allah does not love him who is treacherous ,sinful Quran 4:105-107

Here you see prophet muhammad (s) or shaheed or a true mumin will not advocate on the behalf of zalim those who are sinful.

And if you do good deeds and you are faithful to Allah (SWT) then you don't need intercession because Allah (SWT) does not waste the reward of the good doers

then how one find the way in the middle which is suggested by you [Both the extremes are wrong. Stay the middle course. Believe in intercession, but do not depend on it as God might choose not to permit it.]

peace



anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: The Myth of Intercession

#6

Unread post by anajmi » Sat May 10, 2014 2:53 pm

Here you see prophet muhammad (s) or shaheed or a true mumin will not advocate on the behalf of zalim those who are sinful.
And why are you assuming that they are going to advocate on behalf of the zalim? Maybe they will advocate on behalf of someone who missed a few prayers or was generally good but committed a crime in need. Do not make assumptions about things that you have no knowledge about. Things are not black and white. People do not fall into either the treacherous or the true mumin categories. Most people infact will fall in the middle.



Hasan
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed May 07, 2014 3:44 pm

Re: The Myth of Intercession

#7

Unread post by Hasan » Sun May 11, 2014 1:15 am

anajmi wrote:
Here you see prophet muhammad (s) or shaheed or a true mumin will not advocate on the behalf of zalim those who are sinful.
And why are you assuming that they are going to advocate on behalf of the zalim? Maybe they will advocate on behalf of someone who missed a few prayers or was generally good but committed a crime in need. Do not make assumptions about things that you have no knowledge about. Things are not black and white. People do not fall into either the treacherous or the true mumin categories. Most people infact will fall in the middle.
brother


When we consider the overall message of the Quran and all divine scripture, and we review what we are told about God's infinite mercy, we arrive at an even more serious matter. The concept of intercession, as portrayed in the hadith, implies that some people will be physically taken out of hell, but only after the intercession of Muhammad, they would have to thank the intercession of Muhammad for this reprieve! This alleged plea of mercy from the messenger to God automatically implies that the messenger was not satisfied with God’s mercy and that he pleaded with God to show more mercy towards some people!
The mere suggestion that God placed those people in hell then the messenger asked for more mercy from God would indirectly imply that the human messenger was in fact more compassionate than God Himself! Needless to say, this concept is in total violation of everything we know about God’s infinite mercy. This concept is a grave insult to God.
The concept of intercession also implies that God reversed the sentence He decreed for certain people after the intercession of a human messenger! Once again this is in violation of the fact that God's judgement and decrees on Judgement Day are final and cannot be influenced, changed or reversed by anyone:

so those who fall in the middle categories as suggested by you [ Maybe they will advocate on behalf of someone who missed a few prayers or was generally good but committed a crime in need. Do not make assumptions about things that you have no knowledge about. Things are not black and white. People do not fall into either the treacherous or the true mumin categories. Most people infact will fall in the middle ] will taste the God infinite mercy

peace



anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: The Myth of Intercession

#8

Unread post by anajmi » Sun May 11, 2014 10:29 am

Here is a simpler version of what I have stated. Forget about what is stated in the hadiths.

Will there be intercession on the day of judgment? What is the correct answer as per the Quran?
"Yes" - Wrong Answer
"No" - Wrong Answer
"If Allah gives permission. " - Correct Answer as per the Quran.



Hasan
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed May 07, 2014 3:44 pm

Re: The Myth of Intercession

#9

Unread post by Hasan » Mon May 12, 2014 1:25 am

anajmi wrote:Here is a simpler version of what I have stated. Forget about what is stated in the hadiths.

Will there be intercession on the day of judgment? What is the correct answer as per the Quran?
"Yes" - Wrong Answer
"No" - Wrong Answer
"If Allah gives permission. " - Correct Answer as per the Quran.

brother


. "No intercession except with the permission of Allah"

This passage actually mean that God can permit intercession if he wanted to, but won’t do so since he has determined that all intercession belongs exclusively to him


O children of Israel! call to mind My favor which I bestowed on you and that I made you excel the nations. And be on your guard against a day when ONE SOUL shall not avail ANOTHER in the least, neither shall intercession on its behalf be accepted, nor shall any compensation be taken from it, nor shall they be helped. S. 2:47-48

O children of Israel, call to mind My favor which I bestowed on you and that I made you excel the nations. And be on your guard against a day when NO SOUL shall avail ANOTHER in the least neither shall any compensation be accepted from it, nor shall intercession profit it, nor shall they be helped. S. 2:122-123

These two passages make it clear that intercession will not avail ANY person, not just the Israelites, since the references to "NO SOUL" and "ONE SOUL" not availing another naturally includes every human being.

O you who believe! spend out of what We have given you before the day comes in which there is no bargaining, neither any friendship nor intercession, and the unbelievers - they are the unjust. S. 2:254

"Not your desires, nor those of the people of the Book (can prevail): Whosoever works evil, will be requited accordingly. Nor will he find, besides God, any protector or helper. If any do deeds of righteousness, - Be they male or female - and have faith, they will enter Heaven, and not the least injustice will be done to them" S. 4:123-124

And warn with it those who fear that they shall be gathered to their Lord - there is no guardian for them, nor any intercessor besides Him - that they may guard (against evil). S. 6:51

Leave alone those who take their religion to be mere play and amusement, and are deceived by the life of this world. But proclaim (to them) this (truth): that every soul delivers itself to ruin by its own acts: it will find for itself no protector or intercessor except Allah: if it offered every ransom, (or reparation), none will be accepted: such is (the end of) those who deliver themselves to ruin by their own acts: they will have for drink (only) boiling water, and for punishment, one most grievous: for they persisted in rejecting Allah. S. 6:70

Say: "Nothing will happen to us except what Allah has decreed for us: He is our protector": and on Allah let the Believers put their trust. S. 9:51

Allah it is Who created the heavens and the earth, and that which is between them, in six Days. Then He mounted the Throne. Ye have not, beside Him, a protecting friend or mediator. Will ye not then remember? S. 32:4

Verily We have revealed the Book to thee in Truth, for (instructing) mankind. He, then, that receives guidance benefits his own soul: but he that strays injures his own soul. Nor art thou set over them to dispose of their affairs. It is Allah that takes the souls (of men) at death; and those that die not (He takes) during their sleep: those on whom He has passed the decree of death, He keeps back (from returning to life), but the rest He sends (to their bodies) for a term appointed verily in this are Signs for those who reflect. What! Do they take for intercessors others besides Allah? Say: "Even if they have no power whatever and no intelligence?" Say: Unto Allah belongeth all intercession. His is the Sovereignty of the heavens and the earth. And afterward unto Him ye will be brought back. S. 39:41-44

Again, what will explain to thee what the Day of Judgment is? (It will be) the Day when no soul shall have power (to do) aught for another: For the command, that Day, will be (wholly) with Allah. S. 82:18-19

peace



humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: The Myth of Intercession

#10

Unread post by humanbeing » Mon May 12, 2014 2:32 am

Interesting debate !

In my opinion, why should there be intercession ? day of Judgement is an exam we all must prepare for ourselves.

Scope of intercession, does breed a sense of complacency in the follower and opportunity for a godmen to exploit people.

The argument to use one’s intelligence can be debated, because if someone is brainwashed or manipulated since birth, there is little chance for that person to identify between a cheat and pious intercessor.

Another argument is, the intercession happens after death, and with allah’s permission and will (which cannot be flawed), makes intercession exercise flawless. The godmen (intercessor) and the follower has no control over in life before death or after death. But it provides a scope for godmen to preach his/her right to intercede and thus control the follower citing authentic source.

Jews, Christians and Muslims have this concept of intercession in them, such dependency on intercessors promotes idol worship of the intercessors. Seeing is believing ( it is a human nature). Even if the pious intercessor does not intend to promote such a belief or feeling in the followers.

What I understand by intercession is that men of god ( prophets) teach us how to be pious, show us the right path and leave the choices of our deeds entirely upon us and its judgements on Allah. Intercessors = teachers, they teach, performance in the exam is our responsibility !

There are no black and whites, a lot of grey areas to judge a person to be right or wrong. Only Allah knows it all, when someone does something under certain circumstances.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

My above thoughts are inspired from my education from bohra madrassa. One of our Muallims had taught us that, the day of judgement will be like no soul will identify/recognize one another. Everyone will be a stranger to each other, busy with their own accounts. Eve your own father may be standing next to you, but one would not know each other. The angels who sat on our left and right shoulder ( left recording the bad deeds and right recording the good ones).

Those were the impressionable days and this concept made perfect sense and instilled a sense of self discipline, self control and self policing.



anajmi
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Re: The Myth of Intercession

#11

Unread post by anajmi » Mon May 12, 2014 10:15 am

"No intercession except with the permission of Allah"

This passage actually mean that God can permit intercession if he wanted to, but won’t do so since he has determined that all intercession belongs exclusively to him
According to whom?

The prophet (saw) has been referred to in the Quran as a mercy to all mankind. Why? Then, it has been said in the Quran that prophets will be brought as witnesses on the day of judgment against their people. Why? Doesn't God know everything that happened?

Let us not dictate what God will and won't do. He doesn't need anyone's permission to do as He pleases. If he wants to give permission for intercession, no one can stop him. He definitely isn't going to refer to our interpretation of His word to figure out if He should allow intercession or not.
O children of Israel! call to mind My favor which I bestowed on you and that I made you excel the nations. And be on your guard against a day when ONE SOUL shall not avail ANOTHER in the least, neither shall intercession on its behalf be accepted, nor shall any compensation be taken from it, nor shall they be helped. S. 2:47-48
Read your above translation carefully. Does it say that there will be no intercession? NO!! It says intercession on its behalf will not be accepted. So I can say that intercession will happen, but it won't be accepted. In other cases, it might be accepted. Who knows save Allah himself.

Here is another interesting point to consider. In the Quran, does Allah leave the door open for idol worship? Does He say anywhere - "No idol worship except with the permission of Allah"? No. Think about it.



Hasan
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed May 07, 2014 3:44 pm

Re: The Myth of Intercession

#12

Unread post by Hasan » Wed May 21, 2014 3:11 pm

Brother anajmi

It was good to have conversation with on this topic you have also stated some good points though i have my own disagreements

Peace