How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

Given modern distractions, the need to understand Islam better has never been more urgent. Through this forum we can share ideas and hopefully promote the true spirit of Islam which calls for peace, justice, tolerance, inclusiveness and diversity.
Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

#31

Unread post by Muslim First » Sat Jun 07, 2014 5:21 am

"Zabardasti" and "Zulm" is against core tenets of Islam. Karbala unravel the fact that who is with Islam and Islam is with whom = line of Imam Hussain a.s. (Mohammed - Fatima - Hasan - Hussain a.s.) is where the Islam is. Yazeed line (1-2-3-Mawiya-Yazeed) is line of enemy of Islam.
BJ Janab
Please tell us acts to be performed to be with Islam based on Quran only. Also please educate us with anti Islam acts.

Who do you think is in line of Imam Hussain a.s. (Mohammed - Fatima - Hasan - Hussain a.s.) ? And name him with his email address.

badrijanab
Posts: 809
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:19 pm

Re: How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

#32

Unread post by badrijanab » Sat Jun 07, 2014 8:41 am

Muslim First wrote:
"Zabardasti" and "Zulm" is against core tenets of Islam. Karbala unravel the fact that who is with Islam and Islam is with whom = line of Imam Hussain a.s. (Mohammed - Fatima - Hasan - Hussain a.s.) is where the Islam is. Yazeed line (1-2-3-Mawiya-Yazeed) is line of enemy of Islam.
BJ Janab
Please tell us acts to be performed to be with Islam based on Quran only. Also please educate us with anti Islam acts.

Who do you think is in line of Imam Hussain a.s. (Mohammed - Fatima - Hasan - Hussain a.s.) ? And name him with his email address.
With Quran: Love and obey Mola Ali a.s. and his progeny of Fatimi Imam's, the successor of Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w.

Anti Quran: Doing otherwise than above.

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

#33

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Jun 07, 2014 9:37 am

Previously, Imam fought with the enemy and saved Islam and now Imam goes into hiding and saves Islam. :wink:

freebhora
Posts: 102
Joined: Sun May 11, 2014 5:49 am

Re: How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

#34

Unread post by freebhora » Sat Jun 07, 2014 12:41 pm

I really pity these bunch of people as they have been brainwashed since childhood to believe in this falsehood.

The fact is the whole Ummah accepts that the so called 1-2-3 fazail are greater then Ali a.s and Ali a.s himself narrated this and these sahabas were the foremost in Islam.
It can only be a seed of Munafiq who has spread such unsubstantiated lies. If Ali a.s would come now , I can promise by Allah he would be the first one to not just Kill but grill each body part of these scums who accuse the sahabas to inflict maximum torture as how he did with the nusairis in spite of claiming love of Ali. What I see is that the shiaa ne Ali of the time of Muawiya, siffin etc dont exist now , those that call themselves shia are descendants of Nusairis ONLY. The Shiane Ali are the people of Quran and Sunnah who always speak against the greatest Zulm and there is only one group who does it both by deeds and by words and they alone are the saved sect.

tasneempati
Posts: 260
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2014 3:44 am

Re: How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

#35

Unread post by tasneempati » Sun Jun 08, 2014 6:56 am

It is you on whom we pity, as you are brainwashed by your false Ulema's & Wahabi shaitans.
freebhora wrote:I really pity these bunch of people as they have been brainwashed since childhood to believe in this falsehood.

The fact is the whole Ummah accepts that the so called 1-2-3 fazail are greater then Ali a.s and Ali a.s himself narrated this and these sahabas were the foremost in Islam.
It can only be a seed of Munafiq who has spread such unsubstantiated lies. If Ali a.s would come now , I can promise by Allah he would be the first one to not just Kill but grill each body part of these scums who accuse the sahabas to inflict maximum torture as how he did with the nusairis in spite of claiming love of Ali. What I see is that the shiaa ne Ali of the time of Muawiya, siffin etc dont exist now , those that call themselves shia are descendants of Nusairis ONLY. The Shiane Ali are the people of Quran and Sunnah who always speak against the greatest Zulm and there is only one group who does it both by deeds and by words and they alone are the saved sect.

shapur
Posts: 138
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:35 am

Re: How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

#36

Unread post by shapur » Sun Jun 08, 2014 7:10 am

In a nutshell, lets look at the philosophy behind the decision and judgement of Imam Hussain in opting for shahadat of himself and his band of 72 as against accepting the authority of the name-sake muslim Yazeed who was the grand son of the most virulent enemy of the prophet of Islam, Abu Sufyan. Abu Sufyan is reported to have told his son Muawiyah that " I swear to you that theres neither a God nor a prophet and neither heaven nor hell, it was all a manipulation and a gameplay of the Hashimite kid Muhammad to create a following and a political kingship.So take it upon yourself, my son, to usurp this power-base into our clan and family base at the smallest oppurtunity".. Muawaiyah did just that and after creating untold troubles for hazrat Ali during his caliphate, succesfully eliminated Imam Hasan to become Caliph and thereafter installed his son Yazid like as if it was his personal kingdom. Yazid was a known ayyash and an unbelieving Muslim who could have plunged the nascent religion into shirk and self-idolation like the modern times had he secured complete allegiance including that of the holy prophet's grandson.
Anticipating this scenario Imam Hussain gave up his life and that of his kin purely to uphold the message of God amongst the new followers,save it from corruption and dilution and to reinforce, re-invigorate and re-establish the worship and service of God.
The act was not to aim at becoming a hero and getting worshipped and remembered 24x7 like God himself but rather as mentioned above, to establish the greatness of God and inculcate His worship among the Muslemeen. It stands to reason that Imam Hussain would actually be turning in his grave when he sees his so-called followers cutting out Allah's sunnath and nafil namaz but giving time for doing purjosh matam in his name.

onlyprivate
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 7:40 am

Re: How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

#37

Unread post by onlyprivate » Sun Jun 08, 2014 7:34 am

salaam all,
i think following hadith will sum up all arguments :
It has been narrated by Imam Ali ibn AbuTalib (r.a.) that Allah's Messenger (saws) said to him, "You have a resemblance to Jesus whom the Jews hated so much that they slandered his mother, and whom the Christians loved so much that they placed him in a position not rightly his."Imam Ali (r.a.) afterwards said, "Two people will perish on my account, one who loves me so excessively that he praises me for what I do not possess, and one who hates me so much that he will be impelled by his hatred to slander me."

There is not a believer on this earth, who can deny or not appreciate the sacrifices given by Imam Ali (r.a.) and Imam Hussain (r.a.).All the muslims are unanimous in their love for these noble souls of Allah.But we must be careful that in the love of any personality, we cannot raise the person beyond his ‘maqaam’ and station … that they worshipped Allah Alone; that they feared Allah Alone; that they invoked Allah Alone; that they were obedient and pious slaves of Allah Subhanah; and all their sacrifices were given for the Cause and Pleasure of Allah Alone.



In our love and reverence for these noble martyrs, we cannot take them and raise them above the ‘maqaam’ of the Messenger of Allah (saws).And Allah forbid, even raise them at par with Allah Subhanah.That would be mis-guidance!



There are people who invoke these martyrs and ask them for their needs… this is the sole right of Allah Alone.

There are people who do ‘tawaaf’ around their graves … that is the right of Allah’s House Alone.

There are some people who call Imam Ali (r.a.) ‘mushkil kushaa’ (the remover of perils) and ‘haajat rawaa’ (the answerer of prayers) …. Allah Alone can remove our perils and answer our prayers!



What we have to do is love them, try to follow in their noble footsteps, and emulate their deeds for the same Cause … to make Allah’s Name and Law supreme in the land.



Just read the Quran and see what Allah says about the people who believed, followed and loved Jesus Christ (r.a.).In their love and reverence, they raised the ‘maqaam’ of Prophet Jesus (r.a.) and some made him a god, and others made him the son of God!Thus Allah cursed them severely in the Holy Quran!



Allah says in the Holy Quran Chapter 19 Surah Maryam verses 88-93: They say that the Merciful has taken a son!What an absurd thing you have invented!It is well near that the heavens might crack, and the earth might split asunder, and the mountains crumble down at this hideous thing that they should ascribe a son to the Merciful!It does not behove the Merciful to adopt a son!All those who are in the heavens and the earth, are going to be presented before Allah as His slave-servants.

freebhora
Posts: 102
Joined: Sun May 11, 2014 5:49 am

Re: How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

#38

Unread post by freebhora » Sun Jun 08, 2014 7:41 am

you are right , Ali a.s is like Jesus a.s , The Mushrikeen always use their name for their silly activities and shirk whereas the Muslims love them but follow the final prophet pbuh , the only person worthy of being followed blindly.

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

#39

Unread post by Muslim First » Sun Jun 08, 2014 8:52 am

Please read
THE ESSAY-on praying to anybody except Allah SWT
And discussion
@
http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... f=2&t=4265

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

#40

Unread post by Muslim First » Sun Jun 08, 2014 11:23 am

badrijanab
With Quran: Love and obey Mola Ali a.s. and his progeny of Fatimi Imam's, the successor of Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w.

Anti Quran: Doing otherwise than above.
BJ

We have asked you repeatedly to submit Ayas from Quran stating;
that to be a good Muslim it is imperative that we must Love and obey Mola Ali a.s. and his progeny of Fatimi Imam's, the successor of Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w.

And who is your Fatemi Imam progeny living today.
Janabe Aali
Hawa me kille banana chod do. Zmin per utaro. Hazaar Saal ho gaye aapke Imam ko Chupe huye.

freebhora
Posts: 102
Joined: Sun May 11, 2014 5:49 am

Re: How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

#41

Unread post by freebhora » Sun Jun 08, 2014 11:19 pm

I see Badrijanab as a similitude to the person who just cant accept the fact that their forefathers could be wrong , I myslef know how difficult it is to accept it even when you know its all fraud. Imagine how can you digest that an entire chain of forefather which could number in thousands were following a wrong .

Is it not possible: YES fore fathers were not infallibles , they erred and we are not obliged to follow them in their errors

badrijanab
Posts: 809
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:19 pm

Re: How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

#42

Unread post by badrijanab » Mon Jun 09, 2014 12:11 am

Muslim First wrote:
badrijanab
With Quran: Love and obey Mola Ali a.s. and his progeny of Fatimi Imam's, the successor of Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w.

Anti Quran: Doing otherwise than above.
BJ

We have asked you repeatedly to submit Ayas from Quran stating;
that to be a good Muslim it is imperative that we must Love and obey Mola Ali a.s. and his progeny of Fatimi Imam's, the successor of Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w.

And who is your Fatemi Imam progeny living today.
Janabe Aali
Hawa me kille banana chod do. Zmin per utaro. Hazaar Saal ho gaye aapke Imam ko Chupe huye.
Question) Does Quran commands to believers to obey an authorised person other than Messenger Mohammed s.a.w.w.?
Answer)
Yes. Refer Quran 4:59 - O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if ye do believe in Allah and the Last Day: That is best, and most suitable for final determination.

Three parties are identified whom one has to obey:
1. Allah
2. Messanger
3. Authorised person

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Q) Who will be authorised person?
Answer) Whom Allah will appoint via his messenger. So public cannot appoint anyone as authorised person of Islam as public is not authorised by Allah to elect anyone as authority to seen of Allah. So election of 1/2/3 by public can be valid only as people's ruler but not as authority in the matter of Islam. No authentic books in Islamic world says: 1/2/3 were authorised by Prophet as religious authority after Prophet.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Q) How Mola Ali a.s. is authorised person in matter of Islam in absence/after Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w.?
Answer)
Example) Emperor Akbar the great was the lord of all those whose lord was Humayun. Jahangir was lord of all those whose lord was Akbar. Shahjahan was lord of all those whose lord was Jahangir. What does this mean? Akbar is the authorised successor of Humayun and likewise.

Many authentic Sunni books vets following, that Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w. said: "Ali is Mola (lord) of all those to whom I am the Mola (lord)." This clearly means Mohammed s.a.w.w. has appointed Mola Ali a.s. as the authorised person in matter of Islam after him.

Has Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w. said same/similar about 1/2/3? No. Was their any clear nuss on 1/2/3? No.

Before the event of "Gadeer-a-khum" all pillars of Islam were revealed but still Allah has not said, "Islam is complete." It was only after the event of Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w. pronouncing that "Ali is Mola to all whom I am Mola" - after this event Allah sent aayat: Now Islam is complete. Thus this is the proof of clear nuss.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Q) Where Quran command need for Imams after Demise of last Prophet?
Answer)
Sura Maryam, Chapter 19, Verse 96 & 97: On those who believe and work deeds of righteousness, will ((Allah)) Most Gracious bestow love. So have We made the (Qur'an) easy in thine own tongue, that with it thou mayest give Glad Tidings to the righteous, and warnings to people given to contention.

Refer underlined red text above: believers resides in different geographies and does have their own tongue / native language. But Quran is only in Arabic and not in the own tongue of believers!!!

There has to be one authorised person in every era who can speak in native language of anyone across geographies, across time. This person is called Fatimi Imam. That is why it is said: Imam is "bolt Quran" and Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w. said, I am leaving two strong thing behind me, one is Quran and second is my Itrat (the Fatimi Imam's). They will always be together.

So Sura 19:96-97 is proof from book Quran that Imam is always needed in all time otherwise this aayat turns false. This aayat also shows us way: how to recognise if a claimant of Imam is really the Imam - test him if he can speak different tongue. The Aga Khani and Ithna Asheri Imam cannot!!!

Quran says, "Zalikal kitaab laraybafeeh....": Zalika means "that" and Haaza means "this". Quran says "that" Quran is undoubtedly right and error free: "That Quran" = Fatimi Ismaili Tayyebi Imam's. Hence, Fatimi Ismaili Tayyebi Imam a.s. = bolta Quran, vetted by the book Quran.

freebhora
Posts: 102
Joined: Sun May 11, 2014 5:49 am

Re: How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

#43

Unread post by freebhora » Mon Jun 09, 2014 2:26 am

Hazrat Ali himself in his nahjul balagha never made any argument that he was made successor of the prophet. "Man kunto mawla.." is a sahih hadith in Bukhari we all accept it .
But hazrat ali himself never used it as an argument for his succession. If you ask an ARAB ABOUT THE word "mawla" then it does not mean a successor. It was very commonly used word for many people.The prophet pbuh never said "a person xyz " after me will be my successor.

Bukhari Also has this hadith:
وقال لزيد: أنت أخونا ومولانا
Prophet: said to zaid, “You are our brother and our Mawla.” [sahi bukhari, 3:863]
This is a proof that even by addressing Zaid as Mawla who also happened to be the adopted son of Muhammad no one at the time took the meaning of master or successor.



Classical Shia books like Kitab Al Irshad also use the word Mawla, to describe someones freed slave
Kitab Al Irshad, Page 70[ http://islamicmobility.com/pdf/KITAB_AL_IRSHAD1.pdf ]

Does that mean zaid is the succesor?

Also see the hadith collections for use of word "mawla"

http://sunnah.com/search/mawla

I myself was surprised that word "Mawla" as a master was NEVER USED , All occurrence of "mawla" meant only friend, brother or slave!!

It is narrated in Ibn Saad’s “Al-Tabaqat Al-Kubra”:
A Rafidhi (a person who rejects the Caliphate of Abu Bakr and Umar) said to him (Al Hasan ibn Hasan), “Did not the Messenger of Allah say to Ali: ‘If i am Mawla of someone, Ali is his Mawla?’”

He (Al Hasan) replied, “By Allah, if he meant by that Amirate and rulership, he would have been more explicit to you in expressing that, just as he was explicit to you about the Salah, Zakat and Hajj to the House. He would have said to you, ‘Oh people! This is your leader after me.’ The Messenger of Allah gave the best good counsel to the people (i.e. clear in meaning).”

(Source: Al-Tabaqat Al-Kubra, Volume 5)

The crux of the issue :The meaning of mawla has many meanings. mawla comes from the root wala. It can have many meanings and it depends on how it is used. It could mean master or it could mean friend or someone associated with, or even a servant or a slave. It has many other meanings too and it all can be known from the context. the crux is that if Ali a.s himself had known this meaning as caliph then how dare Abu bakr \ umar etc declare another caliph , when the shere khuda is present? Haz Ali a.s gave bayt to them and hence patronized them, loved them to the extent Haz Ali gave his own daughter to Umar and also named their sons after the caliphs, in exact chronological order!
Haz Abu Bakr Also is not the divinely appointed caliph and caliphate is like amirate . The prophet pbuh has told us to chose an amir whenever we are in groups. Ali a.s was not chosen by divine appointment , had he been chosen we would find clear mentions of it in Quran as all fundamentals are mentioned in Quran. The Crux of the matter is that prophet pbuh is the final divinely appointed figure. No one can take his place.He is the seal of Prophethood and there is no extension offices of prophethood.

_____________
Some more details:
http://web.archive.org/web/200906120526 ... adir-khumm

Copying Important points:
It is impossible to discuss the Hadith of Ghadir Khumm without first understanding the specific context in which the Prophet (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) said what he said. This is a general rule of thumb pertaining to the Islamic canon as a whole: it is important to know the background in which a Quranic verse was revealed or a certain Hadith was said.

For example, the Quranic verse “slay them wherever you find them” is often used by Orientalists to wrongfully make it appear as if Islam advocates the slaying of people wherever you find them all the time. Of course, if we look at when this verse was revealed, we find that it was specifically revealed during a battle between the Muslims and the Quraish Mushriks; this makes us realize that it is not a general ruling to slay people but rather it was a verse revealed in a specific situation.

Likewise, the Hadith of Ghadir Khumm can only be understood in the context in which it was said: A group of soldiers were severely criticizing Ali ibn Abi Talib (رضّى الله عنه) over a certain matter, and this news reached the Prophet (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم), who then said what he said in the Hadith of Ghadir Khumm. Like the Orientalists, the Shia propagandists attempt to remove this background context in which the Hadith was said in order to paint a totally different (and misleading) picture.

The Prophet’s intention behind saying what he said at Ghadir Khumm was not at all to nominate Ali (رضّى الله عنه) as Caliph but rather it was only to defend Ali (رضّى الله عنه) against the slander being said against him. It is only by removing the background context that it is possible to render a Shia understanding of the text; it is for this reason that we should always remind our Shia brothers of the background context in which the Hadith of Ghadir Khumm was said.

The Hadith of Ghadir Khumm has absolutely nothing to do with Imamah or Caliphate, and if it did, then nothing prevented the Prophet (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) from clearly stating that instead of using the word “Mawla” which is known by everyone to mean “beloved friend.” Furthermore, and this point cannot be stressed enough, Ghadir Khumm is located 250 km away from Mecca: if the Prophet (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) had intended on nominating Ali (رضّى الله عنه) then he would have done that at the larger gathering atop Mount Arafat during his Farewell Sermon in front of all the Muslims from every city.

The entire Shia paradigm is based on the flimsy and easily refutable idea that Ghadir Khumm was a central location in which all the Muslims would gather together in before parting ways and going to their respective homes. Indeed, only those Muslims heading towards Medinah would pass through Ghadir Khumm, not the Muslims living in Mecca, Taif, Yemen, etc. A couple hundred years ago, the Shia masses could easily have been misled because many of them would not have had the availability of a map to check where Ghadir Khumm is and they would merely have accepted the commonly held myth that it was a meeting place for Muslims before they parted ways. But today, in the age of information and technology, accurate maps are at our finger-tips and no reasonable person should be fooled by the Shia myths.

We have shown that the Prophet (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) did not (and could not have) nominated Ali (رضّى الله عنه) at Ghadir Khumm as the Shia claim. This is the very foundation block of Shi’ism, without which their faith has no basis whatsoever: if the Prophet (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) did not nominate Ali (رضّى الله عنه) to be Caliph, then the Shia can no longer claim that Abu Bakr (رضّى الله عنه) or the Sunnis usurped the divinely determined designation of Ali (رضّى الله عنه). And with that, the whole of Shi’ism collapses in on itself, all because of an unaccountable 250 km separating Ghadir Khumm from Mecca and separating Shi’ism from the truth.

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

#44

Unread post by Muslim First » Mon Jun 09, 2014 5:04 am

badrijanab
There has to be one authorised person in every era who can speak in native language of anyone across geographies, across time. This person is called Fatimi Imam. That is why it is said: Imam is "bolt Quran" and Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w. said, I am leaving two strong thing behind me, one is Quran and second is my Itrat (the Fatimi Imam's). They will always be together.
And who is that " one authorized person in every era who can speak in native language of anyone across geographies, across time. This person is called Fatimi Imam"?
Name him? Give his location.

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

#45

Unread post by Muslim First » Mon Jun 09, 2014 5:12 am

badrijanab
So Sura 19:96-97 is proof from book Quran that Imam is always needed in all time otherwise this aayat turns false. This aayat also shows us way: how to recognise if a claimant of Imam is really the Imam - test him if he can speak different tongue. The Aga Khani and Ithna Asheri Imam cannot!!!
Can you tell us who is that person, your Imam. We would like to ask him to explain certain Aya in Sanskrit.

BTW many deluded Agakhanis believe that their Imam speaks and understands all languages and dialects. He can read their thoughts. He can even help them while he is on a racecourse or on a date with beautiful lady.
( javidnuma Bhai, please do not get mad. White Europian ladies do not marry you unless you court them. You know testing, testing.)

badrijanab
Posts: 809
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:19 pm

Re: How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

#46

Unread post by badrijanab » Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:02 am

Muslim First wrote:
badrijanab
There has to be one authorised person in every era who can speak in native language of anyone across geographies, across time. This person is called Fatimi Imam. That is why it is said: Imam is "bolt Quran" and Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w. said, I am leaving two strong thing behind me, one is Quran and second is my Itrat (the Fatimi Imam's). They will always be together.
And who is that " one authorized person in every era who can speak in native language of anyone across geographies, across time. This person is called Fatimi Imam"?
Name him? Give his location.
Significant and crucial: Accepting the Quran's command = Imam's presence every time/era.

Insignificant and peripheral: His name, location, email address, cell number, etc.

Have you or your accomplice ever seen angles over your right and left shoulder writing good/bad deeds? No, you haven't seen them but still you believe in their presence! Likewise analogies can be given for angle Gibraeel, Allah, etc whose location you do not know, nor you know their email address or fax number! So not knowing name & location of present era Imam does't negate the requirement of presence of Imam.

Who is your religious leader after Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w.? No one. Etc, etc and etc are kings (caliphs) like Tughlaq, Ravan, Kans, Pratap, and Shivaji, they are not representative of Islam authorised by Mohammad s.a.w.w.

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

#47

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:08 am

Accepting the Quran's command = Imam's presence every time/era.
This equation holds no water as the Imam is not present today. According to badrijanab's idiotic logic, we will be called by the name of the Imam of our time on the day of judgment. Does badrijanab know the name of his Imam? How will he know which name to answer on? Do we know Allah's name? Yes. Do we know the names of the angels on our left and right shoulders? Yes. Do we know the name of the Gabriel? Yes. Do we know the name of the Imam? No. Case closed!!
Insignificant and peripheral: His name, location, email address, cell number, etc.
So we have to accept Quran's command that the Imam is present, but the Imam doesn't actually have to be present. Wah bhai Wah kya, badri logic hai!!!

freebhora
Posts: 102
Joined: Sun May 11, 2014 5:49 am

Re: How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

#48

Unread post by freebhora » Mon Jun 09, 2014 12:28 pm

bro anajmi, I see you are harsh on badrijanab
You are here since a decade , I can understand but you need to understand that we were also one of them. You should be not harsh to them

JC
Posts: 1624
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:01 am

Re: How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

#49

Unread post by JC » Mon Jun 09, 2014 3:46 pm

There is this one important thing Badrijanab and alike forget while defending Imam and his presence ......... BJ has just quoted Allah, angels on right and left shoulder and Gabriel, that we cannot 'see' them, yet be believe in them and he uses this excuse to prove presence and belief in Imam. The point is that Allah, angels, Gabriel are NOT SUPPOSED to be seen by us while Allah's Messenger was 'supposed to be seen' by us .......... a messenger was to be PRESENT and lead. So if Imam is the leader of his time and era like a Messenger of Allah (or his progeny) then he 'must' be SEEN and be 'present' to lead and guide ............. BJ is comparing oranges to bananas ........

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

#50

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Jun 09, 2014 4:12 pm

Hidden bananas.

badrijanab
Posts: 809
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:19 pm

Re: How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

#51

Unread post by badrijanab » Tue Jun 10, 2014 11:44 am

anajmi wrote: This equation holds no water as the Imam is not present today.
Sura Maryam, Chapter 19, Verse 96 & 97 and verse: Zalikal kitaab la raybafe..." says Imam is always present on earth. Abde 1-2-3 says otherwise than Quran; doesn't matter.
anajmi wrote: According to badrijanab's idiotic logic, we will be called by the name of the Imam of our time on the day of judgment. Does badrijanab know the name of his Imam? How will he know which name to answer on?
Intellectually baimaan are often lier and above is one of proof of you being lier. Show us my post where I've claimed above false contention.

Quran 17:71 categorically says: One day we shall summon all people with their Imams. Per this verse every era have to have an Imam. This verse is not saying that we people will be called by the name of the Imam of our time!!! NO IMAM NAMES / ID IS REQUIRED. This verse says, Allah will summon people with their Imam - this eradicate the requirement of knowing the Imam name, email address, location address, fax number, etc. The crux is: love for the office of Imam irrespective of whether he is zahir or in concealment. Mohammed s.a.w.w. for 2/3 of his life has not disclosed his true identity to masses, for majority of his life he too concealed his identity. So it is sunnat of Rasool s.a.w.w. as the office-bearer deems fit he will be in zahir mode or in concealment.
Do we know Allah's name? Yes. Do we know the names of the angels on our left and right shoulders? Yes. Do we know the name of the Gabriel? Yes. Do we know the name of the Imam? No. Case closed!!
Do you know the location of Allah and Gibraeel? No. Have you seen them personally and verify their identity? No. Have you seen the angles over right and left shoulders? No. Do you know exactly at which square centimetre of shoulder are these angles located? No.

Neither you saw them nor you know their location but still Abde 1-2-3 believe in their existence!!! By the same token as Quran is commanding their presence then though many of us for time begin cannot see but they are present. Case closed.

badrijanab
Posts: 809
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:19 pm

Re: How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

#52

Unread post by badrijanab » Tue Jun 10, 2014 11:56 am

JC wrote:The point is that Allah, angels, Gabriel are NOT SUPPOSED to be seen by us while Allah's Messenger was 'supposed to be seen' by us .......... a messenger was to be PRESENT and lead. So if Imam is the leader of his time and era like a Messenger of Allah (or his progeny) then he 'must' be SEEN and be 'present' to lead and guide ............. BJ is comparing oranges to bananas ........
Gay WC,

Which authentic literature of Islam says that chief office bearer (authority) of Islam (Prophet/Wasi/Imam) have to be always present and seen by us?

Messenger Mohammed s.a.w.w. have hidden his identity for two-third of his life! And only for minority part of his life he revealed himself as Prophet of Islam and preached Islam publicly.

When Eesa Nabi a.s. and Yahya a.s. can talk and guide from Allah's book from the birth then Mohammed s.a.w.w. too was supposed to guide and lead the people from the birth! Why he wasted forty long years without public preaching of Islam?!!! In those forty years many must have died - should he have guided and lead masses then those deceased could have ended up in paradise! But by virtue of Mohammed s.a.w.w. not leading/guiding publicly those people most likely ended up in hell!

So like Mohammed s.a.w.w. kept his mission concealed and not lead/guided masses for majority of life by the same token Fatimi Imam were in zuhoor for 400 years and concealed for 1000 years.

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

#53

Unread post by anajmi » Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:31 pm

Sura Maryam, Chapter 19, Verse 96 & 97 and verse: Zalikal kitaab la raybafe..." says Imam is always present on earth. Abde 1-2-3 says otherwise than Quran; doesn't matter.
19:96
إِنَّ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَعَمِلُوا الصَّالِحَاتِ سَيَجْعَلُ لَهُمُ الرَّحْمَنُ وُدًّا

19:97
فَإِنَّمَا يَسَّرْنَاهُ بِلِسَانِكَ لِتُبَشِّرَ بِهِ الْمُتَّقِينَ وَتُنذِرَ بِهِ قَوْمًا لُّدًّا

The word "Imam" isn't mentioned in either of these two ayahs. Nor is the word "earth" or "Ard". I couldn't find the arabic word for "always" or the Arabic word for "present". Hence the badri interpretation of the Quran can be dismissed as a fabrication. I may just as well say that these ayahs mention that "indeed dark chocolate is good for the heart" if I am just fabricating shit.

verse: Zalikal kitaab la raybafe

Again, the verse doesn't mention "Imam", nor does it mention "earth" or "always" or "present"
One day we shall summon all people with their Imams.
Since you do not know your Imam, how will you know which Imam is yours? What if you line up with the wrong Imam? Then you will be in deep shit.
NO IMAM NAMES / ID IS REQUIRED.
Again, how will you know which Imam is yours you moron!!!
Do you know the location of Allah and Gibraeel?
Yes. They are in the heavens. Where is your Imam?
No. Have you seen the angles over right and left shoulders?
No, but a believer knows where they are. Their location is known. Do you know the location of your Imam? No. Do you know his name? No!!

Case closed!!!

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

#54

Unread post by anajmi » Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:34 pm

Which authentic literature of Islam says that chief office bearer (authority) of Islam (Prophet/Wasi/Imam) have to be always present and seen by us?
No authentic literature says that. Hence the conclusion is that, an Imam doesn't need to be amongst us. We do not need an Imam present amongst us. Thank you for understanding. Case closed!

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

#55

Unread post by anajmi » Tue Jun 10, 2014 4:10 pm

Messenger Mohammed s.a.w.w. have hidden his identity for two-third of his life! And only for minority part of his life he revealed himself as Prophet of Islam and preached Islam publicly.
Abe Moorkhand badrijanab, is there anyone on earth, let alone just muslims, who do not know the prophet (saw) of Islam? If you are a muslim, then by default you know the prophet (saw) and his life's every big and small detail is available for you to learn. Those who do not know or recognize Mohammad (saw) as a prophet (saw) will be the non-believers. However, in case of your Imam, even you do not know who he is.

The stupidity of people like you is almost mind numbing!!

Ummul Bani
Posts: 104
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:09 am

Re: How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

#56

Unread post by Ummul Bani » Thu Jun 12, 2014 11:40 am

Have been following this informative discussion.

Brother Badrijanab, I'd like to mention just one thing regarding your last post.
badrijanab wrote:
Messenger Mohammed s.a.w.w. have hidden his identity for two-third of his life! And only for minority part of his life he revealed himself as Prophet of Islam and preached Islam publicly.

When Eesa Nabi a.s. and Yahya a.s. can talk and guide from Allah's book from the birth then Mohammed s.a.w.w. too was supposed to guide and lead the people from the birth! Why he wasted forty long years without public preaching of Islam?!!! In those forty years many must have died - should he have guided and lead masses then those deceased could have ended up in paradise! But by virtue of Mohammed s.a.w.w. not leading/guiding publicly those people most likely ended up in hell!

So like Mohammed s.a.w.w. kept his mission concealed and not lead/guided masses for majority of life by the same token Fatimi Imam were in zuhoor for 400 years and concealed for 1000 years.
Prophet Muhammad (saw) did not conceal his mission as such for forty years. He didn't have to. It is just that he was not a prophet for the first forty years of his life. Therefore, he had no obligation to spread Islam during that time.He became a prophet at the age of 40 and remained so for the next 23 years. When he received his first revelation (at the age of 40) , it is then that he started spreading Islam and people came to know of his status as a Prophet.So he was not a prophet by birth as a consequence of which he couldn't have spread Islam right from his birth.
It is important to note that he did not conceal his mission after he received revelations/ became Prophet.

adna_mumin
Posts: 193
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:43 pm

Re: How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

#57

Unread post by adna_mumin » Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:37 pm

Ummul Bani wrote:Have been following this informative discussion.

Brother Badrijanab, I'd like to mention just one thing regarding your last post.
badrijanab wrote:
Messenger Mohammed s.a.w.w. have hidden his identity for two-third of his life! And only for minority part of his life he revealed himself as Prophet of Islam and preached Islam publicly.

When Eesa Nabi a.s. and Yahya a.s. can talk and guide from Allah's book from the birth then Mohammed s.a.w.w. too was supposed to guide and lead the people from the birth! Why he wasted forty long years without public preaching of Islam?!!! In those forty years many must have died - should he have guided and lead masses then those deceased could have ended up in paradise! But by virtue of Mohammed s.a.w.w. not leading/guiding publicly those people most likely ended up in hell!

So like Mohammed s.a.w.w. kept his mission concealed and not lead/guided masses for majority of life by the same token Fatimi Imam were in zuhoor for 400 years and concealed for 1000 years.
Prophet Muhammad (saw) did not conceal his mission as such for forty years. He didn't have to. It is just that he was not a prophet for the first forty years of his life. Therefore, he had no obligation to spread Islam during that time.He became a prophet at the age of 40 and remained so for the next 23 years. When he received his first revelation (at the age of 40) , it is then that he started spreading Islam and people came to know of his status as a Prophet.So he was not a prophet by birth as a consequence of which he couldn't have spread Islam right from his birth.
It is important to note that he did not conceal his mission after he received revelations/ became Prophet.
Sr Ummul Bani

Islam was NOT founded by Mohammad Rasul Allah SAW. He is the last and final messenger of Allah ta.
So if he is the last there ought to be those messengers before him. Did the messengers prior to him preach anything other than La Ilaha IllAllah?
It is just that he was not a prophet for the first forty years of his life.
Untrue. In maqaam Mohammad Mustafa SAW was the prophet of Allah ta from when he was sent to the world as Rehmat ul lil aalaameen

He was Imam in the line of Imamat that began right at the onset of when Allah ta created Man. The Imam that led Anbiya in prayers to the One God. The "taajdaare risaalat"
It is important to note that he did not conceal his mission after he received revelations/ became Prophet.
Dawat is not concealed. It is proclaimed per order. It calls to the worship of One God. It is important to bear witness after La Ilaha illallah that Mohammad Rasul Allah

Shab e barat Mubarak to all mumineen.

adna_mumin
Posts: 193
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:43 pm

Re: How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

#58

Unread post by adna_mumin » Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:52 pm

Above is the response i had. But i did not intend to take liberty of who the question was asked to. I am sorry in case i did unintentionally.

Ummul Bani
Posts: 104
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:09 am

Re: How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

#59

Unread post by Ummul Bani » Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:44 pm

Brother adna_mumin,
adna_mumin wrote:
Islam was NOT founded by Mohammad Rasul Allah SAW. He is the last and final messenger of Allah ta.
So if he is the last there ought to be those messengers before him.
Correct. However, I am not sure how that is related to our discussion. Could you elaborate a bit.
adna_mumin wrote: Did the messengers prior to him preach anything other than La Ilaha IllAllah?.
No.

This is the part that caught my attention:
Why he wasted forty long years without public preaching of Islam?!!!
and,
So like Mohammed s.a.w.w. kept his mission concealed and not lead/guided masses for majority of life

This sounds to me like he deliberately did not do it even though he could or should have.

And that is what I am trying to arrive at. He did not keep his mission concealed. He received the revelation at the age of 40 and since then was on a mission to spread the message. He was not entrusted with this task before that so how could he have possibly spread the word?
adna_mumin wrote:Dawat is not concealed.
Exactly. That is why I mentioned above in my post , "It is important to note that he did not conceal his mission after he received revelations/ became Prophet."

Alf Mabrook to you as well.

MUSTAPH
Posts: 131
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:24 am

Re: How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

#60

Unread post by MUSTAPH » Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:49 am

hey you all seem to know a lot about Islam, Quran and Prophet Muhammed and its really nice to know that people research well these days.
can any of you help me find about the arabs before Islam. what was the trade, teachings, culture, language, how did they react to kaaba, what was their foreign connections etc.