How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

Given modern distractions, the need to understand Islam better has never been more urgent. Through this forum we can share ideas and hopefully promote the true spirit of Islam which calls for peace, justice, tolerance, inclusiveness and diversity.
anajmi
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Re: How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

#61

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:06 am

Read the book called - The Sealed Nectar (Ar-Raheeq Al-Makhtum) by Safi-ur-Rahman Al-Mubarakpuri. It is the seerah of the prophet (saw). In the first few chapters, the author explains the ancestry of the prophet (saw) and the different arab tribes and their details in short.

Muslim First
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Re: How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

#62

Unread post by Muslim First » Fri Jun 13, 2014 6:29 pm

adna_mumin
He was Imam in the line of Imamat that began right at the onset of when Allah ta created Man. The Imam that led Anbiya in prayers to the One God. The "taajdaare risaalat"
You cannot have it and eat it too.

According to Ismaili belief Prophet Saw was not Imam. Imam during his time was his uncle and later Hz Ali.
His mission was to reveal Hz Ali as Imam.,( to Agakhani Ismailis Prophet was Pir while Ali was Imam)
Am I right? Badrijanab Bhai Saheb!!!!!!

freebhora
Posts: 102
Joined: Sun May 11, 2014 5:49 am

Re: How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

#63

Unread post by freebhora » Sun Jun 15, 2014 3:24 am

These people just cant accept that their forefathers were patently wrong! this is all about massaging and maintaining their egos

badrijanab
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Re: How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

#64

Unread post by badrijanab » Sun Jun 15, 2014 9:22 am

Muslim First wrote:
adna_mumin
He was Imam in the line of Imamat that began right at the onset of when Allah ta created Man. The Imam that led Anbiya in prayers to the One God. The "taajdaare risaalat"
You cannot have it and eat it too.

According to Ismaili belief Prophet Saw was not Imam. Imam during his time was his uncle and later Hz Ali.
His mission was to reveal Hz Ali as Imam.,( to Agakhani Ismailis Prophet was Pir while Ali was Imam)
Am I right? Badrijanab Bhai Saheb!!!!!!
Allah asked to prostrate to Aadam a.s. only when Allah blow his soul into Aadam. This indicates there is "noor" in Aadam.

Non-Bohras historian misunderstands Aadam came to earth approx 8000 years back! Only Bohra maslaq correctly understand that that Aadam was not that first person referred in above paragraph. Millions of years old human skeleton dug by archaeologist is proof that humans are much before 8000 years. Non-Bohras as usual are almost always on fault i.e. why Prophet Mohammad s.a.w.w. said all Islamic sects will doom in hell but one (Fatimi dawat).

That Aadam with "noor-a-Ilahi" and his son who inherited that noor is called Mustaqar Imam. It pass from father to son, till humans existence in world.

Ishaq a,s. was Mustoda nabi and Ismail a.s. was Mustaqar Imam. Mustoda are servant of Mustaqar. Ibrahim a.s. was Mustaqar Imam.

Through-out our era Aadam (8000 years back) till Prophet Mohammad s.a.w.w. all Mustoda Prophets have bore all the hardships of their era which actually should have borne by their lord Mustaqar Imams. Example) Prophet Yahaya a.s. was murdered by some 'moorkhanand' Anajmi of his era. all hardship borne by Mustoda Imams/Prophets.

Islamic Dogma: Blood for blood, eye for eye. If you have taken service then you have to give service. This is also called Qisaas. Mustaqar Imam have to give back the services of Mustoda to satisfy Islamic dogma.

Mohammad the leader (summation) of all Mustoda prophets from Aadam (8000 years back) through him. And Ameer-al-Mumineen Mola Ali a.s. is the leader (summation) of all Mustaqar Imam for same period.

Mohammad s.a.w.w. is appointed by Allah as the maalik and Ameer-al-mumineen is appointed as his brother and assistant. Ali a.s. served Mohammad s.a.w.w. thus the Qisaas is paid-off / completed.

When all Mustoda prophets and all Mustaqar Imam are present in one single time then their all enemies too are present at the same particular time so, those enemies who were murdered by mustoda & mustaqar's can take their Qisaas by murdering Panjatan a.s.

Etc, Etc, Etc, Mawiya and Yazeed are sum-total of all enemies of Islam for same above period.

Because that "noor a Ilahi" is present in the particular chain of son's of Aadam that is why religious leader of any era has to be only Mustaqar Imam. The infallible, because Allah noor is present in him. That was the reason not even highest degree of non-mumineen fanatic born till date could not produce even one tradition that proves if ever Ali a.s. has made even a single mistake.

Ummul Bani
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Re: How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

#65

Unread post by Ummul Bani » Sun Jun 15, 2014 11:47 am

MUSTAPH wrote:hey you all seem to know a lot about Islam, Quran and Prophet Muhammed and its really nice to know that people research well these days.
can any of you help me find about the arabs before Islam. what was the trade, teachings, culture, language, how did they react to kaaba, what was their foreign connections etc.
Bro Mustaph,

If you are a beginner you can check this link where details are provided in a simple and lucid language.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad

To gain a deeper insight, you can check this book titled " Muhammad: His Life Based on the Earliest Sources".
This is biography of Prophet Muhammad (saw).

Muslim First
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Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

#66

Unread post by Muslim First » Sun Jun 15, 2014 2:59 pm

badrijanab wrote:
Muslim First wrote: You cannot have it and eat it too.

According to Ismaili belief Prophet Saw was not Imam. Imam during his time was his uncle and later Hz Ali.
His mission was to reveal Hz Ali as Imam.,( to Agakhani Ismailis Prophet was Pir while Ali was Imam)
Am I right? Badrijanab Bhai Saheb!!!!!!
Allah asked to prostrate to Aadam a.s. only when Allah blow his soul into Aadam. This indicates there is "noor" in Aadam.

Non-Bohras historian misunderstands Aadam came to earth approx 8000 years back! Only Bohra maslaq correctly understand that that Aadam was not that first person referred in above paragraph. Millions of years old human skeleton dug by archaeologist is proof that humans are much before 8000 years. Non-Bohras as usual are almost always on fault i.e. why Prophet Mohammad s.a.w.w. said all Islamic sects will doom in hell but one (Fatimi dawat).

That Aadam with "noor-a-Ilahi" and his son who inherited that noor is called Mustaqar Imam. It pass from father to son, till humans existence in world.

Ishaq a,s. was Mustoda nabi and Ismail a.s. was Mustaqar Imam. Mustoda are servant of Mustaqar. Ibrahim a.s. was Mustaqar Imam.

Through-out our era Aadam (8000 years back) till Prophet Mohammad s.a.w.w. all Mustoda Prophets have bore all the hardships of their era which actually should have borne by their lord Mustaqar Imams. Example) Prophet Yahaya a.s. was murdered by some 'moorkhanand' Anajmi of his era. all hardship borne by Mustoda Imams/Prophets.

Islamic Dogma: Blood for blood, eye for eye. If you have taken service then you have to give service. This is also called Qisaas. Mustaqar Imam have to give back the services of Mustoda to satisfy Islamic dogma.

Mohammad the leader (summation) of all Mustoda prophets from Aadam (8000 years back) through him. And Ameer-al-Mumineen Mola Ali a.s. is the leader (summation) of all Mustaqar Imam for same period.

Mohammad s.a.w.w. is appointed by Allah as the maalik and Ameer-al-mumineen is appointed as his brother and assistant. Ali a.s. served Mohammad s.a.w.w. thus the Qisaas is paid-off / completed.

When all Mustoda prophets and all Mustaqar Imam are present in one single time then their all enemies too are present at the same particular time so, those enemies who were murdered by mustoda & mustaqar's can take their Qisaas by murdering Panjatan a.s.

Etc, Etc, Etc, Mawiya and Yazeed are sum-total of all enemies of Islam for same above period.

Because that "noor a Ilahi" is present in the particular chain of son's of Aadam that is why religious leader of any era has to be only Mustaqar Imam. The infallible, because Allah noor is present in him. That was the reason not even highest degree of non-mumineen fanatic born till date could not produce even one tradition that proves if ever Ali a.s. has made even a single mistake.
Wow
What a goobli gook,
Islam is simple not all this goobli gook

freebhora
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Re: How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

#67

Unread post by freebhora » Mon Jun 16, 2014 2:50 am

badri bhai ,
please write a fiction novel on Islam which you are so creative at, it would be a best seller and I would be the first to buy it Inshallah

dal-chaval-palidu
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Re: How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

#68

Unread post by dal-chaval-palidu » Sun Jun 29, 2014 1:22 am

freebhora wrote:Since childhood I was always listening to these cliche "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad" , but I did not find a single rational reason as to how the martydom of Imam Hussain lead to the savings of teachings of Islam? How is that possible when the tragedy killed the very person who was the embodiment of teachings of Islam. People may get frustrated on reading this but going to Karbala was clearly a bad decision which actually proved to be the most detrimental effect on all Muslims. On further reading I was glad that I am not alone in thinking this. Umme Salamah RA, Muhmmad bin hanafia a.s the brother of Hussain a.s also cried and asked him not to goto karbala. He could have strategically gathered people and preached like how this happened even after the martydom event. Many reliable sources say that He did not went to wage a war , which is fairseeming as no one takes his own family , small chldren to a war. From my extensive readings I found that Hussain a.s did not want to wage a war but only wanted to meet the person who was the dawedar of caliphate for reconciliation. Most likely the dawedar was also ready to meet him but the likes of overzealous ibn ziyad,shimr etc wanted to earn recognition and approval from their masters which caused this grave tragedy. What is more perplexing is that two contrary stories appear from various sources, one in which the dawedar approves the killing and other in which the dawedar cries on hearing this news.

Another angle is that karbala caused many schism and broke the ummah into pieces like now how even most of the shia sects are bitterly divided.

I would rather rephrase the cliche as "Musalmaan bikharjata hai har karbala ke baad".
--------------
Ramazan Mubarak to all.

I am sharing on this forum my thoughts on why I think the statement “Islam jinda hota hai har Karbala ke baad” has truth, and why the sacrifice at Karbala is considered Imam Hussein’s seminal contribution to Islam - one that in my mind probably had the most long-lasting impact. If you disagree with me, I urge you to correct me, and I will gladly welcome that. I am hoping for a good discussion this Ramazan.

This post is somewhat long (more like an article) and is broken up into 3 parts. Part 3 will wrap up the information provided in Part 1 and 2 to complete the argument. And I have provided publicly accessible reference below.


Part 1: The events in Karbala and the Muslim community in the first 50 years after the Prophet’s [PBUH] death.

What was the essence of the contribution of Imam Hussein (AS) which we mention to this date as “saving the religion of Islam?” To answer that question, we have to understand the reason why Imam Hussein (AS) was protesting the elevation of Yazid to the caliphate. It had been just about 50 years since the death of the Prophet of Islam, and the caliphs were very much thought of as representatives of Islam and were considered as the leaders of the community. To put it very soberly, Yazid’s careless temperament, and his whole life, had many things in direct contrast to an Islamic way of living. What kind of an example would such a leader set for the world to see? The seminal contribution of Imam Hussein to Islam is best explained as a direct quote of the relevant text from [1] that I reproduce below:

“It is in this light that we should read Husayn’s replies to those well-wishers who advised him not to go to Iraq. It also explains why Husayn took with him his women and children, though advised by Ibn’ Abbas [his father’s cousin] that should he insist on the project, at least he should not take his family with him. Aware of the extent of the brutal nature of the reactionary forces, Husayn knew that after killing him, the Umayyads would make his women and children captives and take them all the way from Kufa to Damascus. This caravan of captives of Muhammad’s immediate family would publicize Husayn’s message and would force the Muslims’ hearts to ponder on the tragedy. It would make the Muslims think of the whole affair and would awaken their consciousness. This is exactly what happened. Husayn succeeded in his purpose. It is difficult today to evaluate exactly the impact of Husayn’s action on Islamic morality and way of thinking because it prevailed. Had Husayn not shaken and awakened Muslim consciousness by this method, who knows whether Yazid’s way of life would have become standard behavior in the Muslim community, endorsed and accepted by the grandson of the Prophet. No doubt, even after Yazid kingship did prevail in Islam, and the character and behavior in the personal lives of kings was not very different from that of Yazid, but the change of thinking which prevailed after the sacrifice of Husayn always served as a line of distinction between Islamic norms and the personal character of the rulers” [all emphasis is mine - Dal-chaval-palidu]

For me, when I read this passage, it was like a light turned ON and I understood the impact of Imam Husein’s sacrifice.


Part 2: Where we talk of the behavior of Muslims currently and over the past 14 centuries.

Throughout history, including many examples from modern times, kings/rulers/(even despotic dictators) have claimed that they represented the true spirit of Islam – mostly done for their own convenience. In current times, the Saudi Arabian monarchy, Iran, Iraq (yes, Saddam claimed that he was the representative of Islam), Libya (so did Ghaddafi), Pakistan, Al-Qaeda, and a host of others have claimed that they represent Islam. Consider a very current event, the war and killings going on in Iraq by ISIS. ISIS would probably be claiming that they are the true Muslims and that they represent the true Islam.

Non-Muslims and Muslims alike are asking the question: What kind of religion is this where Muslims kill Muslims all the time and with so much brutality. And they would have also asked the question: How can such despots (take your pick :) , Ghaddafi, Saddam, Saudi ruling family, Al-Qaeda) claim to be the leaders of your religion?


Over the centuries, other people would have asked (directly or subtly) the Muslim community: What kind of religion is this (Islam) of yours that kings (or, alternatively dictators, thugs, or oppressors) claim to be representing it, or claim to be its vanguard? And as morality is the long-term basis of religion, it would have weakened people’s faith in the religion if “not so moral” people would have claimed to be its leaders.

Part 3: [Summing up the argument from Part 1 and Part 2]

And the reply to the above questions that kept faith in Islam going was along the following lines: No, these people are NOT the representatives of the religion of Islam. Look, within 50 years from the death of the Prophet (PBUH), Yazid [one of the kings, the then caliph (also translated/interpreted as representative of the Prophet) and an immoral character] claimed to be the leader of Muslims. And the most-righteous, noble, and courageous grandson of the prophet refused to accept that and laid down his, his family’s, and his companions’ lives as a defining line separating the righteous life from un-righteousness. Hussein and his actions is the true representative of Islam, and that is the religion of Islam and our faith. In that sense, Imam Hussein saved Islam by providing a “moral anchor” for the religion that has survived the vicissitudes of time and has been a source of solace for Muslims.

This, in my opinion, is one of the defining and most enduring contributions of Imam Hussein. He did not do it by winning a battle – the specific battle he lost; but the clear differentiation (between right and wrong) that he drew in not giving allegiance (bait/accepting authority) to an un-worthy caliph and paying the ultimate price, its moral impact provided a clear point of demarcation (between right and wrong) for the religion. At least that is what I think.

In recent times in the USA, we have seen many instances of (anti-Muslim bigoted) people saying that Islam supports terrorism, Islam is not a religion of peace and justice, etc. etc. After 9/11/2001 I was asked directly by one of my colleagues at work: dal-chaval-palidu, how can this be a moral faith, a religion of peace with justice, when people like bin Laden are perceived (wrongly so) as its most visible symbol/leaders? Such times can test ones faith, and I am sure that those times must have happened over the past 14 centuries too. And it is at such times that the sacrifice of Imam Hussein served as a line of distinction between true Islamic norms and the behavior of its so called champions. His life and actions have provided the faith its “rock” and in that sense Imam Hussein saved the religion of Islam.

References:

[1] “An Introduction to Shia Islam”, Moojam Momen, Yale University Press, New Haven, Connecticut, USA, 1987.

qutbudin
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Re: How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

#69

Unread post by qutbudin » Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:45 am

nice exposition , But the people who speak the most about martydom of Imam hussain AS are the farthest away from it. The majlis are just entertaintment , people are idolizing Hussain AS but dont know nor care to know what he practised.

dal-chaval-palidu
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Re: How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

#70

Unread post by dal-chaval-palidu » Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:38 pm

I agree, Qutbuddin.

If we claim to be the "spiritual heirs" of Imam Husain, we should have stood up against Modi (at least not get prominently in "bed" with him) as he basically was responsible for the killing of Muslims. This is just one example, there are others.

Essentially, Imam Husain stood up for truth and against the mightly, and we bohris don't do that. We do "charta suraj ne pujwanu". Doing matam is an easy and in my mind a "cop out" way to say we are sorry for Imam Husain's martyrdom. The true way to be a follower of Imam Husain would be to stand up for what is right in our times. There is injustise and wrong going on in each era, and to be a true follower of Imam Husain would be that we should stand up against whatever injustice and evil that is currently taking place.

And I would think we Bohris (myself included) would not pass that test. That is just my opinion.

qutub_mamajiwala
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Re: How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

#71

Unread post by qutub_mamajiwala » Thu Jul 03, 2014 3:28 am

absolutely correct DCP
doing only mataam is like a guilt feeling.
an easy way out.
like they say a soft target for everybody

silvertongue
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Re: How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

#72

Unread post by silvertongue » Thu Jul 03, 2014 3:52 am

So true DCP...

araz5253
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Re: How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

#73

Unread post by araz5253 » Thu Feb 19, 2015 1:06 am

See now how few people are there with the weak dawedar, and the strong dawedar has forcibly taken over all the wealth like how yazid did. Why dont the abdes reflect on this?

araz5253
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Re: How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

#74

Unread post by araz5253 » Sun Jul 19, 2015 11:30 pm

excellent post free bohra , I agree.

Jai
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Re: How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

#75

Unread post by Jai » Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:08 am

anajmi wrote:
Do you know the location of Allah and Gibraeel?
Yes. They are in the heavens.
Brother Anajmi,

Could you please give proof or explain that Allah swt is in heavens.

Al-Noor
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Re: How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

#76

Unread post by Al-Noor » Mon Aug 24, 2015 2:51 pm

Anajmi is wahabi and for them Allah is in heaven and sitting on a large throne and he has hand and foot and may be a beard as well (nauzobillah), for shia/sunni muslims Allah is present everywhere and we believe in formless/shapeless GOD who is most powerful and most merciful and many other great attributes according to Quran and Sunnah.

anajmi
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Re: How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

#77

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:31 pm

Actually, those who deny the reality about the throne of Allah have denied the Quran. But then "Taawil" Zindabad!!!!

fayyaaz
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Re: How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

#78

Unread post by fayyaaz » Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:12 pm

Allah used to sit on the Peacock Throne. The throne was stolen by Mughals. Allah has been looking for it everywhere. That is why He is everywhere, still looking!

anajmi
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Re: How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

#79

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Aug 24, 2015 9:31 pm

Maybe he should start looking for the hidden Imam instead eh?

Al-Noor
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Re: How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

#80

Unread post by Al-Noor » Tue Aug 25, 2015 12:51 am

anajmi wrote:Maybe he should start looking for the hidden Imam instead eh?
wahabi bolta hain samajhta nahi...putting ALLAH on throne is making him limited, and this is the biggest shirk wahabi idiots are doing and they dont even know it. Kisi sunni se jaa ke pooch woh tujhe batayenga Allah ki haqiqat and no no tawil is needed for this.

anajmi
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Re: How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

#81

Unread post by anajmi » Tue Aug 25, 2015 7:35 am

Actually, Allah is putting himself on the throne in the quran.

fayyaaz
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Re: How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

#82

Unread post by fayyaaz » Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:44 am

Quran says Allah's throne extends over the heavens and the earth. There is a good reason for that. The whole universe (the heavens and the earth) is an architect's (Allah's) nightmare. He does not want Himself sullied by His creation by stepping on to it even though He has the ability to be everywhere. So, just like humans want shoes to keep their feet clean, Allah wants to keep himself away from the uncleanliness of His abominably dirty universe by building Himself a throne. There is not a place in the universe where His throne does not exist.

If I were God, I would have created a clean universe, so I would not need a throne. But God has an inscrutable mind. We can all see that can't we?

Al-Noor
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Re: How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

#83

Unread post by Al-Noor » Tue Aug 25, 2015 12:32 pm

anajmi wrote:Actually, Allah is putting himself on the throne in the quran.
Fayyaz gave you good answer, will you learn or turn back to your wahabi ways? depends on you

fayyaaz
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Re: How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

#84

Unread post by fayyaaz » Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:13 pm

anajmi wrote:Actually, Allah is putting himself on the throne in the quran.
Quran, afaik, does not claim that Allah 'is putting himself on the throne' or that Allah 'sits on His throne'. :lol: :lol: :lol:

anajmi
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Re: How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

#85

Unread post by anajmi » Tue Aug 25, 2015 7:47 pm

afayk is nvf. In fact it is nfaa.

Al-Noor
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Re: How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

#86

Unread post by Al-Noor » Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:41 am

anajmi wrote:afayk is nvf. In fact it is nfaa.
you call others idol worshipers, but by the definition of keeping ALLAH on throne you are making him IDOL. (Nauzobillah)

I knew it will fall back on you. :wink:

anajmi
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Re: How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

#87

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:05 am

Excellent conclusion. Your prize is a new forum ID and a ticket to Palmyra in Syria with bro Canadian's advice on how to settle there and a brand new iCrack. :wink:

SBM
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Re: How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

#88

Unread post by SBM » Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:27 am

^
:) :D

Al-Noor
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Re: How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

#89

Unread post by Al-Noor » Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:30 am

anajmi wrote:Excellent conclusion. Your prize is a new forum ID and a ticket to Palmyra in Syria with bro Canadian's advice on how to settle there and a brand new iCrack. :wink:
Thanx for the tickets, but make sure you dont die with an aqeedah of Allah sitting on a throne with a hookkah (nauzobillah). wahabiyat is toooo funny... :lol:

araz5253
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Re: How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?

#90

Unread post by araz5253 » Sun Aug 30, 2015 2:03 am

Al-Noor wrote:
anajmi wrote:Excellent conclusion. Your prize is a new forum ID and a ticket to Palmyra in Syria with bro Canadian's advice on how to settle there and a brand new iCrack. :wink:
Thanx for the tickets, but make sure you dont die with an aqeedah of Allah sitting on a throne with a hookkah (nauzobillah). wahabiyat is toooo funny... :lol:
how is this related to the topic :How come "Islam zinda hota hai karabala ke baad"?